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More Migrants Break Out of Hungarian Holding Camps, Walk Towards Border; North Korean Leader Has Firm Grip on Power; Pope Francis Amends Catholic Process For Annulment; Interview with UN special Envoy To Syria Staffan de Mistura. Aired 11:00a-12:00p ET
Aired September 8, 2015 - 11:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
[11:00:12] ARWA DAMON, CNN INTERANTIONAL CORRESPONDENT: We're running now with these migrants and refugees who just broke out of the holding area
right along the border with Serbia.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ANDERSON: Border tensions boil over as Europe scrambles to catch up with a refugee crisis that shows no signs of slowing.
We're live for you in southern Hungary this hour and we'll go to London in Paris for the latest rhetoric from Europe's leaders.
Also ahead, how to tackle the root cause of the crisis.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
STAFFAN DE MISTURA, UN SPECIAL ENVOY TO SYRIA: There's no more time for niceties or diplomatic malaise or postponements or partial solutions.
It is to push...
(END VIDEO CLIP)
DAMON: The UN's envoy to Syria names and blames the world powers he says are responsible for the continuing war in Syria. That interview is
And the pope introduces reforms that ease the process for Catholics who want to annul their marriages. Live in Rome for you on one of his most
significant reforms yet.
ANNOUNCER: Live from CNN Abu Dhabi, this is Connect the World with Becky Anderson.
ANDERSON: At just after 7:00 in the evening, it is a very good evening from the UAE.
We are watching a dramatic scene unfold in southern Hungary.
Hours ago, hundreds of frustrated migrants burst through a barrier near the Serbian border and began running deeper into Hungary. Let's
Well, CNN's Arwa Damon has been walking, or running, alongside these migrants who are now at least a few kilometers into EU territory. She's
been tracking the plight of many of the refugees from the Syrian civil war, which Arwa has covered from the start. She's going to join us in a few
minutes here on Connect the World.
Meanwhile, the EU commission is about to lay out its proposal detailing how many refugees should be taken in by the various countries in
Europe. France and the UK have said they will pitch in. And while some nations in eastern Europe are voicing objections, German Chancellor Angela
Merkel says that quotas are the only way to ensure that every country does its part.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ANGELA MERKEL, GERMAN CHANCELLOR (through translator): We really need to discuss about a joint and overarching asylum policy and we, Sweden and
Germany, are of the view that binding quota actually ought to be applied so that refugees can be fairly distributed to the European member states.
Unfortunately, we are a long way off this target.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ANDERSON: All right. And just a reminder, we'll be back with Arwa in a moment for what is the latest on a dramatic situation playing out in
I want to turn to Britain where there is an eruption of controversy after Prime Minister David Cameron revealed an unprecedented military
strike in Syria after two years -- two years after, sorry, parliament denied him permission to act there.
Mr. Cameron announced that two UK nationals were killed in a drone strike near the ISIS stronghold of Raqqa. Now this was last month, he
said. Reyaad Khan, seen here on the left in a propaganda video put out by ISIS was the target of that attack. Rohul Amin (ph) seen here was also
Now having acted without a mandate from parliament, Mr. Cameron will likely face questions when he returned to parliament on Wednesday for his
regular question time.
Well, the UK controversy comes as France looks set to take on ISIS in Syria.
Well, for more on all of this, let's get you our correspondents up live. Now Nic Robertson is with us from outside 10 Downing Street tonight.
And Jim Bittermann standing by in Paris.
Let me start with you, Nic. And even without that mandate, the British defense minister is saying that the government would, quote, not
hesitate to do this again.
How is Cameron defending his position?
NIC ROBERTSON, CNN INTERANTIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, it's the right of self defense of the nation, article 51 of the UN. He said that he went
to the attorney general in Britain and put this situation to him, or a situation similar to this to him, and he was given a legal greenlight to go
ahead with these strikes where he said these young men were involved in plotting attacks in Britain, that there were several plots in the past 12
months that have been thwarted by Britain's security services and that the only way to stop these men going ahead with the plans that they were
putting in place for more attacks was to disrupt them. And the only way to disrupt them was a drone strike killing them.
So, what the prime minister said here is that Britain has the right to do this, because it is a right of self-defense. He said that this was
meticulously planned. Human rights lawyers here are calling it into question. Opposition parliamentarians have said they really need more
information if they can make a judgment on this themselves. They don't know the information that was provided to the attorney general for him to make
this legal decision.
So, it certainly is very, very likely to raise more questions, wanting more details about the circumstances, the precise nature of the
circumstances at prime minister's question time on Wednesday.
I have to say, though, it's entirely possible that he will use national security, as we've heard up until now, not to get into further
[11:05:59] ANDERSON: Yeah, it's been just over two years, Nic, since Mr. Cameron went to parliament to ask for permission to intervene in Syria.
That was to go after President al-Assad's regime.
As I mentioned, parliament rejected his proposals, then. Listen to his response a few days after that defeat, just to remind our viewers.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DAVID CAMERON, BRITISH PRIME MINISTER: Last week, the House of Commons voted clearly, and I've said I respect the outcome out of that
vote. And I won't be bringing back plans for British participation in military action.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ANDERSON: Well, is this, Nic, a case of Mr. Cameron, then, again ignoring parliament's wishes to get involved in Syria? Or is there a
genuine appetite for anti-ISIS strikes at this point?
ROBERTSON: I think there are several things in play here. One is that was the last session of parliament. David Cameron is back, Prime
Minister with a much bigger mandate for the Conservative Party. He's not in an alliance government. The request back then, as you said, was to go
after President Bashar al-Assad with manned aircraft, and this was of course right on the heels of the gas attack in Syria, which caused so much
controversy around the world, that was resolved in a different way other than going for those strikes.
He had rushed the MPs back from their summer recess for this vote. It did go against him.
But as recently as last week when he was asked this question about further military action inside Syria, he said he wouldn't do it without the
full support of the government.
What he announced yesterday does seem to fit in with what we're learning, that he would like to push this parliament to a vote in October
to determine whether or not Britain should carry out more strikes inside Syria. right now, it's manned strikes, or manned aircraft in strikes over
Iraq after ISIS. This would just shift them a little westwards into Syrian territory.
The question that is there a greater appetite for that here in this country at this time, there certainly is a realization among many people
here that ISIS poses a threat, that people that are going off to join ISIS are already, if you will, nailing their colors to the flagstaff. A lot of
people are unhappy about that.
ANDERSON: Thank you, Nic. And a reminder that much of our reporting of late has been on Syrian refugees who are making their way, often a
treacherous journey through Europe. Many of them will say it's not ISIS they fear in Syria, it is President Bashar al-Assad.
For another conversation.
The French President Francois Hollande is looking to step up France's involvement in Syria. He has announced that France will begin
reconnaissance missions over the country today aimed at gathering intelligence in preparation for bombing raids against ISIS.
Jim is with us in Paris. How significant is this announcement, Jim.
JIM BITTERMANN, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORREPSONDENT: Well, I don't think too significant politically. This is more of a philosophical discussion
that's been taking place within the highest levels of governments here for the last year. Basically, France has been on board with the coalition and
bombing targets in Iraq. But, from the very beginning, Hollande has said that he basically doesn't want to involve the French forces in bombing
Syrian ISIS positions in Syria, because ISIS is against Bashar al-Assad. And he would like to see Bashar al-Assad out.
So, by bombing them he's actually supporting Bashar al-Assad.
So, the logic for the French was that they shouldn't bomb because it supports the regime and they'd like to see regime change. Now, however,
there has been a philosophical change. And clearly Hollande believes that it's more important to fight ISIS than in fact it is to have regime change
ANDERSON: Jim Bittermann on the story in Paris for you.
And a lot more on Europe's efforts to solve what is this crisis at both ends.
Just ahead, as the fighting in Syria continues to drive more people from their homes, we're going to have my interview with the man the UN has
told to sort it out. I'll ask him if that is even possible at this point. That is the UN envoy to Syria coming up.
And we'll turn to Germany to look at the challenges that Chancellor Angela Merkel, a hero to some migrants, will face on delivering on her
promise to take in nearly a million refugees.
Well, back to the story of the day, and a scene that truly captures the anger and desperation felt by many of those trying to reach Europe from
places like Syria. CNN's Arwa Damon following a group of migrants and refugees who broke through a police barrier and simply ran into Hungary
Where are you? And what's going on?
[11:10:59] DAMON: Well, Becky, they've come to a stop here, something is going on. It might be the buses that they are waiting for. Yes, OK,
this is what has happened up until this point. These people did not break through the Hungarian border fence, they actually came through the fence.
They were then taken to something of a holding area where they were waiting for buses. And they were fed up with the wait and the conditions that they
were having to wait in.
They were waiting for hours. Some of them have been waiting for days. So they broke through the police perimeter there. They ran through the
fields for about three hours. Some children like that little girl up there I don't know if we can grab a shot of her right there. She lost her shoes.
A lot of the other kids losing their shoes as well as they bolted.
But eventually the police force did catch up to them. It was especially difficult for the parents of the little kids to carry their
little ones and try to run through this terrain.
So, eventually the police force did catch up to them and then walked alongside them for about two to three hours along these train tracks. At a
few occasions, they did try to stop them, but the front row of these refugees and migrants, made up of young men, always physically pushed
through the police force.
They eventually convinced them to stop right here, told them they would be bringing them food and water, which they did.
And then there were some pretty lengthy negotiations underway at the end of which we heard that they agreed that they would get on buses that
the police would bring them. And here they have to trust the police. And there is not a lot of trust here.
But that that would take them to a location, a camp where they would be spending the night. They were promised that they would not be -- that
they would not be fingerprinted and then tomorrow morning, they're expecting a train.
(SPEAKING IN FOREIGN LANGUAGE)
The train that they've negotiated is supposed to take them to the border with Austria or maybe even perhaps all the way through, we're going
to have to wait and see exactly what transpires with that.
But this is the byproduct of what happens when people are exhausted, when they are physically, mentally, emotionally drained and when they can
no longer cope with the conditions that they are being left in. And so they take matters into their own hands.
We've seen this on a number of other occasions over the last few days where refugees have tried to break out, where refugees are simply just
started walking to get on to Austria or Germany. And here we have yet another example of that again. And walking past, you have a father with
his little girl on his back.
A lot of these parents really doing everything that they can to try to get their kids to western Europe.
Nothing that they would have ever wanted to put their children through this experience, but they say all of them when you ask them that they
believe that they didn't have a choice, Becky, this is the only option they have to secure a future for their children.
And we -- after I speak to you, we'll be hearing from the UN envoy to Syria about what is this human catastrophe as a result of this civil war
and the reason why these people are on the move.
Just before we leave you, Arwa, how long have these people been on the road? Is it clear? And where are they trying to get to at this point?
DAMON: Well, they've been -- they've been on the road -- they landed in Greece anywhere from two to four weeks ago. Some of them crossed into
Hungary yesterday, some a few days ago. But most of the last two to three weeks they've spent walking. And it's exhausting. And they don't have...
[11:15:01] ANDERSON: With their kids on their backs.
DAMON: And it is not cheap. Just that sea transit can cost anywhere from about $1,300 per person. And yes, as you say, they're walking this
entire way carrying their children for the most part.
ANDERSON: Arwa, you've said it isn't cheap. I mean, this is just remarkable to see. And these are people who have now been on the road for
two to three weeks. And as you rightly point out, they're doing this to provide themselves and their children, most importantly, a future. But
they have no idea what will happen at the other end, do they? And we know that the German's for example, have talked about the doors being open only
temporarily, for example.
Are they concerned that possibly they'll miss the boat, as it were? They won't get in once they get to the other end?
DAMON: Well, they're concerned about a couple of things. They're concerned about a couple of things. They're concerned about getting where
they need to get. And they also were concerned prior to all of this about Hungary closing its borders as well, because remember that is going to be
taking place in the very near future. And, yes, they are aware of the reception that people are receiving in Germany right now, which is really
part of the reason why they're just so desperate to get there. They want this ordeal to be over. And they just want to be able to get somewhere
where they are able to relax that little bit if that is even possible for them. Because then once they get there they have to start a new life
without the community, without everything that used to be familiar for them: a new language, new culture, new traditions, something that they are
fully willing to do, but it's not easy.
And you can see. I mean, every single step of the way of this trip is difficult, every single step of the way is fraught with its own problems,
its own very different challenges, whether it's people breaking out of holding areas, or cramming trying to get on a bus. A lot of times, you
know, it's the parents that all they want to do is just protect their children. And they never thought that it would be this hard, that they go
through this much, especially not when they reached Europe. And they are exhausted.
And at the same time, even though all they want to do is protect their children and comfort their children. They're so tired that many of them
when you talk to them say that what they miss the most is their own parents comforting touch, because all they want, like one woman was saying, is for
her mother to come and hug her and tell her everything is going to be OK, because this has just been so unspeakably difficult.
ANDERSON: And Arwa, just before we go, I can hear either the bus driver or one of the policemen there trying to get these guys sort of in to
line, as it were, I guess to get on the bus. I'm assuming you're speaking Hungarian, and I'm assuming that most of the people trying to get on this
bus and trying to get themselves a seat, as it were, and just sit down for a bit, don't speak any Hungarian, right? I mean, how many speak Germany?
How many speak English -- I mean, how are they communicating? How difficult is it?
DAMON: You know -- well, that's been one of the really big challenges. It's actually been one of the things that struck us, because
even when they're at organized locations like at the holding area that they were at, there aren't really any Arabic speakers either. There's no one
really to translate. So you do have some of these police officers who do speak a little bit of English, some who do speak English perfectly well.
You do have, you know, some of the refugees who do speak English and they try to communicate like that.
But, yes, a lot of the times one of the really big problems has been the language barrier, because when these people reach Hungary having walked
from Serbia into Hungary, they arrive exhausted, thirsty and confused. They want to know what the process is. They want to know how long they're
going to have to wait at each point, what's going to be happening to them. And there's no one there to properly explain it to them. And so that of
course adds to further frustrations.
But when we've asked government officials about this, they say, well, look, you know, these aren't just people who speak Arabic. You've got
Afghans, Pakistanis, people from Iran, people from other parts of the world, so we can't be expected to provide a translator for everybody.
But, yes, a very good point there. The language, of course, does make it even more difficult because there aren't people around that can answer
all of the questions that they have.
ANDERSON: Keep at it, Arwa. Thank you. Arwa Damon there is in southern Hungary on a trip, which has been some weeks in the making. But
for many of those, as you can see, who are making this journey they are making it an even longer trip than even we have been reporting on.
Excuse me, while I just cough.
CNN has of course been reporting on the unfolding refugee and migrant crisis as Syrians flee violence, and those from other places, of course.
But there are many, many Syrians who are fleeing violence and more at home looking for stability and security in other countries.
The conflict started as a civil war, that's now in its fifth year. But long ago, it devolved into what is a multi-pronged proxy war as world
powers vie for influence and protect their interest with Russia, Iran, Saudi and the U.S. increasingly involved.
Well, the rise of ISIS in Syria has raised international concern as the terror group gains ground in the war torn country. And getting all the
parties involved in the conflict to agree on a path towards peace is a difficult task, to say the least.
Well, I spoke to the man charged with that task, UN special envoy for Syria Staffan de Mistura a short time ago. And I began by asking him which
countries can impact this conflict in Syria. have a listen.
DE MISTURA: The countries who can make an influence are: USA and Russia to start with. They are talking. They are actually talking
constructively at the moment. But not enough to reach a conclusion about the mother of all issues, which is how to find an architecture of the
future of Syria, which has enough credible, substantial change of governance combined with a sufficient, sustainable continuation of the
state as such, because we don't want -- no one wants -- another Libya, another Iraq.
And then two other countries, let's call them by name because they are the ones who can and should make a difference, Iran and Saudi Arabia, Saudi
Arbia and Iran. If Saudi Arabia and Iran start talking, America and the U.S. and the Russia are talking at the moment but not to the point of
concluding. Iran and Saudi Arabia, unfortunately, are not yet talking.
ANDERSON: You pointed the fingers squarely at the U.S. at Russia, Iran and Saudi Arabia.
Let's start with Iran and I'm going to come back to Russia and the U.S. and indeed Saudi. Iran says it is willing to sit down with rivals,
Saudi and the U.S., to discuss a solution to the Syria crisis. Here is what the Iranian president had to say earlier.
HASSAN ROUHANI, IRANIAN PRESIDENT (through translator): Iran will sit down at any table if it sees that a secure, stable and democratic future
for Syria will be the end result of negotiations. We are ready to talk with all parties, with countries inside and outside the region. What is
important for us is the lives of the Syrian people. What is also important is for those Syrians who have been made refugees to return home.
If one day Syria is more secure, that will be in the interest of the whole region and the world.
ANDERSON: Sir, Iran was excluded from the previous rounds from the Geneva peace talks on Syria. You've said the UN has the right to invite
everybody, including Iran, to participate in the process. How critical is it for you that Iran is at the table at this point?
DE MISTURA: Not to me, but to the Syrian solution, to the Syrian conclusion of this conflict, it's critical. Anyone today will not be
naive enough to believe that if we exclude Iran from the equation there will not be a solution on this conflict.
Iran and Saudi Arabia have been supporting the two sides very actively. They are part of a regional tension that we need to help to be
solved. It's not only Syria, look at Lebanon, look at Yemen, look at Iraq. Isn't it time finally for them to sit and talk? That's how conflicts have
ended in the past.
Now, Iran is ready to talk. The important thing is to qualify how far are they ready to consider that we cannot go back to the past.
ANDERSON: I want to talk about plans going forward. But as you just eluded, this is a human catastrophe. In the short-term, the British prime
minister on Monday said that UK forces could be deployed to Syria to help set up safe zones, and called the idea of safe refuge as certainly the
right sort of thinking. Do you agree?
DE MISTURA: Well, it's not for me to agree or not agree. What I can say is the following, that any type of partial solution of a military
nature to a conflict that cannot be won, they've tried for five years, everyone, to win through a proxy approach a conflict which has been not
winnable. So the time is not to look at partial solutions, why...
ANDERSON: With respect, sir, I do want to look at partial solutions, because this is a human catastrophe. There are 11 million people
displaced, many of those within the country. So in the short-term, I put it to you, are safe havens the short-term solution in both the north and
the south? Because if they are, that will need a UN resolution and no-fly zones and I wager you that President Bashar al-Assad will see that as a
threat to his sovereignty, and one assumes that somebody like Russia as a friend not a foe of the regime there would veto that -- correct?
[11:25:29] DE MISTURA: Correct. And that's most likely. And we will lose another six months, another year of tragedy.
Isn't it time, instead, for looking at the global solution. It's very simple, in theory. The war could end in one month, believe me, once the
oxygen will have been taken away from both sides and telling them, look, we are not going to fueling you anymore, either side, with money and weapons.
Sit down about a possible road map, which we have it. The thing is, let's go to it.
Then, the conflict will be over, and buffer zone or non-buffer zone will become obsolete.
ANDERSON: So, can I confirm with you that you say that President Bashar al-Assad has a role going forward in any political solution?
DE MISTURA: I didn't say that. I didn't say that because it's not for me to say that, that's up for the Syrian people to say that. One day
they will be given a chance for free, honest, really UN internationally monitored elections who should be their leader, whoever will he be.
What I'm saying is that currently, in order to conclude a conflict.
Due to this crisis and due to the trigger of the refugees, there is no more time for niceties or diplomatic malaise or postponements or partial
solution. It's to push Russia and America to continue seriously their dialogue and conclude it. And above all, to put enough, more pressure on
those who can make a difference.
Iran and Saudi Arabia, for god's sake, sit together, do something about what otherwise will employed the whole region. And would be endless.
ANDERSON: Strong words from the man who is tasked, at least by the UN, in trying to sort out the mess that is Syria at present.
Live from Abu Dhabi, this is Connect the World. I'm Becky Anderson. Coming up, Germany takes the lead on the refugee crisis sweeping Europe.
Many people there going out of their way to welcome the new arrivals, but not everybody, it has to be said.
And we'll be live in Rome as the Vatican makes a radical announcement, simplifying the process for Catholics to end their marriages.
Stay with us.
[11:30:23] ANDERSON: You're watching Connect the World. I'm Becky Anderson in the UAE. The top stories for you this hour.
A CNN news crew is walking alongside hundreds of migrants now charging across Hungary after watching them break out of a holding area near the
border with Serbia.
Now police have convinced that group to stop and some have got on buses. They just told our Arwa Damon they'll be given a ride to the
British Prime Minister David Cameron is facing criticism and questions after he revealed an unprecedented drone strike that killed two UK
nationals in Syria last month. You can see the main target of the attack Reyaad Khan on the left. Rohul Amin (ph) is seen here also killed in the
strike. Mr. Cameron said the men were planning attacks on British citizens.
At least 12 Turkish police officers were killed and more were wounded in a roadside bombing in Turkey, according to a Turkish news agency. Now
the attack carried out in the eastern province of Igdih is being blamed on the PKK. If it was them, it is another sign that escalating violence
following the collapse of a two-year ceasefire in July
And some breaking news for you, a major boost for U.S. president Barack Obama and the Iran nuclear deal. Today, three more Democrats
Senators announced that they will back the agreement. It means President Obama now has enough backers to potentially block a final vote on the deal.
But while 41 Senators support the deal, not all of them have said they'd prevent a final vote.
Well, this will come out in the wash, as it were, in the next week or so as congress begins to debate that deal.
Now back to our top story. The migrant and refugee crisis impacting so much of Europe -- the European commission on Wednesday will unveil its
plan detailing how many asylum seekers each country should accept. Countries such as Slovakia and the Czech Republic are voicing objections.
But German Chancellor Angela Merkel said today, and again, that quotas are the only way forward.
Well, Germany has already opened its borders to thousands of people seeking sanctuary in Europe as I'm sure you are well aware. CNN's Atika
Shubert shows us how the country has had to adapt quickly to the challenge that it's taking on.
ATIKA SHUBERT, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, this is the kind of temporary housing that German Chancellor Angela Merkel says she wants to see more of.
In fact, Germany is planning to build 150,000 areas like this. So, you can see, it's got a playground area for children.
But behind there, these are basically shipping containers that have been bolted together, and inside, it's kind of like one-bedroom apartments,
enough for a family with a kitchenette, a toilet. Each floor has showers, and a communal kitchen.
This is the kind of warm welcome that Germany is putting out, but there are also increasing tensions.
They keep coming, thousands every day at the main train station in Munich, often greeted by applauding locals or welcoming volunteers. It's
no wonder that Germany is the preferred destination for so many refugees.
But not everyone in Germany welcomes the newcomers. Early Monday morning, a fire burned down a shelter for 80 refugees, five were treated at
hospital. It took 150 firefighters to put out the blaze raising fears of yet another arson attack on immigrants.
In fact, as the number of refugees arriving climbs, so do the number of attacks. According to the interior ministry more than 340 recorded
incidents so far this year from vandalism to arson.
On Monday morning, German Chancellor Angela Merkel rallied the nation to tackle the refugee crisis with pragmatic compassion.
"We will need the voluntary support," she said. "We already know we need 10,000 volunteers to help. This crisis is going to change our
country, but I think we are up for the challenge," she said.
In her speech, Merkel outlined a plan to deal with the crisis, an additional 3 billion dollars now set aside, bringing it to 6 billion
allocated to help house, feed and find jobs for up to 800,000 refugee applicants. 150,000 temporary homes still needed to be built.
As you can see, refugees already coming across here. And this is the kind of reception center that German Chancellor Angela Merkel says she
wants to see more of. And you can hear the kind of warm welcome they're receiving.
But, Chancellor Merkel also said that those who are fleeing war and persecution will be given refuge here. On the other hand, those who were
deemed to come from safe and politically stable countries will be returned home.
For now, that distinction is lost on the thousands arriving here every day. They are just relieved to have a safe place for the night, for
thinking about what happens after tomorrow.
The key, Germany says, is that it cannot do it alone, but that every country in the EU must also do its part to help refugees.
Atika Shubert, CNN, Berlin.
[11:35:42] ANDERSON: Well, we were talking earlier on one of our top stories in the UK where for some politicians the latest call for airstrikes
in Syria -- and let's consider we're talking cause and effect here -- what Atika has just been talking about is the effect of a cause, which is the
Syrian civil war.
And the UK talking about possible airstrikes may seem a case of deja vu.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The ayes to the right 272, the nos to the left 285. So the nos have it. The nos have it. Unlock (ph).
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ANDERSON: Well, that was the British parliament rejecting David Cameron's plea for action against Syrian government forces, that was Syrian
government forces, of course, back in 2013.
Well, now the defense secretary says there will have to be another vote on the issue, this time on a proposal to target ISIS.
Well, for more I'm joined by Elizabeth Quintana in London who is an expert on the use of air power.
Does it work?
ELIZABETH QUINTANA, DIRECTOR OF MILITARY SCIENCES, RUSI, : Well, do airstrikes help in degrading and destroying ISIS? Well, that's certainly
been part of the U.S. and coalition effort in Iraq and for some of the partners in Syria as well.
And we're seeing ISIS moving west, and they're losing land in the east and the north. So, yes, to some extent it is having some effect on the
ANDERSON: Yeah, we see them losing in one area, gaining in another, they gain in one area, they lose in another. I guess, you know, it was a
bit of a basic question. The wider question is, is this the best long-term strategy.
But David Cameron says that the men who were -- who were targeted, British men, in Syria posed, and I quote, an imminent threat to national
security. Journalist Simon Jenkins wrote this -- and I wonder if you'll just have a listen to this -- The Guardian today, and I quote, "David
Cameron's Commons explanation recalled Tony Blair on the Iraq War, that Saddam Hussein had weapons of mass destruction."
Has the experience of the Iraq War, do you think, damaged public confidence in such claims of imminent threats when it comes to airstrikes
and death in a theater of war?
QUINTANA: Well, I think you need to completely -- well, not completely disassociate, but I there are two distinct issues. One is
should we, as part of a broader campaign against ISIS, look to extend UK military operations into Syria. So, yes, I do believe that is eventually
the natural progression. You see France and Australia also considering to do the same thing.
However, the announcement yesterday of a strike that has already taken place because of an imminent threat to the UK over the summer, is very
different. And the secretary of state Michael Fallon was interviewed this morning and discussed it saying that they left themselves open to further
such strikes, but only when this was very much a last resort.
And I think everybody is very much aware that we the UK do not want to go down the same route as the CIA operations in Pakistan and potentially
even the Yemen. Certainly if you look at reports by the UN special rapporteur in counterterrorism, the UK was very much held up as a model for
other nations to follow.
And in fact yesterday you saw Pakistan also killing three insurgents using its own indigenously developed drones.
So, this is a technology that's expanding. And what we do will be very much watched by others going forward.
ANDERSON: All right.
Well, this is the first time that the UK has used a drone attack to kill a British citizen. The U.S., though, as you've alluded to, has been
using them for many years, mainly in Pakistan.
We've also seen a number of attacks in Yemen. And I believe they continue.
Militants are the targets, but an untold number of civilians, of course, have also been killed. You can see the coffin of one person
allegedly killed in the U.S. drone attack.
Here's what human rights group Reprieve thinks of their use. And I quote, they kill and maim civilians, and they radicalize the formally
moderates, swelling the numbers of those who wish to harm western states.
Do you agree?
QUINTANA: Well, I think there is always a risk with airstrikes, however precise, that there will be civilian casualties. So, yes. And
certainly the secretary of state was at pains today to stress that they had decided to take the shot, as it were, when they were clear that there was
not likely to be any civilian casualties as a consequence.
Now without anyone on the ground, you cannot be sure, but we're talking about ISIS, which is a group that has gone out of its way to
transgress all international humanitarian laws, and so in this particular instance I don't think we should worry ourselves too much about that for
this particular instance.
ANDERSON: Well, thank you for your analysis. I know that there is much opposition, and many question that will be put to the prime minister
in the UK. Question time coming up Wednesday of course, expect to hear quite some debate I think is what we should expect. Thank you.
Well, amid the fighting in Syria, one man sits at the head of ISIS. We have heard little about Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi on a personal level until
now, that is.
CNN senior international correspondent Atika Shubert who you saw reporting from Germany just earlier spent some with a young Yazidi girl
named Zainat captured by ISIS fighters. Zainat says she ended up cooking and cleaning for Baghdadi's family. There she met another captive,
American Kayla Mueller.
SHUBERT: She and Kayla were moved to the home of Abu Sayyaf, a high ranking ISIS commander. Shortly after she says Baghdadi came to visit. He
called for Kayla.
ZAINAT: When Kayla came back to us, we asked her why are you crying. And Kayla told us Baghdadi said I'm going to marry you by force. You're
going to be my wife. If you refuse, I will kill you.
When I heard that Kayla told me, I wanted to escape.
ANDERSON: Well, while we can't independently confirm all the details in Zainat's story, Mueller's family tells CNN some of the details match
what the family has learned from government officials.
Remember, Mueller was later killed in what ISIS claims was a Jordanian strike inside Syria. Washington refutes that.
Now Zainat did, in fact, escape. Find out how and hear what else she has to say about being enslaved by al-Baghdadi in Atika's exclusive report.
That is Wednesday only on CNN.
You're watching Connect the World. I'm Becky Anderson. You're out of Abu Dhabi this evening
Coming up, we will be live in Rome as the Vatican makes a radical announcement simplifying the process for Catholics to get their marriages
annulled. Stay with us.
And find out how one Nigerian businessman is making his fortune one step at a time. That is African Startup. And that is next.
[11:45:47] UNIDENTIFIED MALE: When Nigerian Ikenna Okonkow returned from the United States with a masters in business, he wasn't sure what to
do next. Coming back to Lagos, the country's financial hub, he decided to put his business skills to the test and start a company with his high
school friend Udoka Uzoka (ph).
IKENNA OKONKOW, CO-FOUNDER HEELS.COM.NG: What came into mind was a product that probably would get the best sale and female shoes popped into
our head. It's more what had the highest demand and also a product that had the highest margin too.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Okonkow's partner Uzoka used his IT background to create a website heels.com.ng.
ONKONKOW: What we decided to do to make our business sustainable was to get ourselves to about 50 of the top designers around the world to give
us their shoes at MSRP price.
Secondly, after securing these licenses, what we did next was to (inaudible). And most of the (inaudible) we started with were secured from
family and friends.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The pair started selling their shoes at prices ranging from $20 to $175. They worked with local logistics companies to
deliver them across Nigeria, delivering within one to two days in Lagos.
ONKONKOW: We launched with probably 1,000 shoes and maybe over 100 styles. The first day in business was an interesting one. Our collection
had a wide array of sizes, so which means that females with any size of foot could easily go to our website and find their shoes.
Now, of course, being that we're male we had to go through the period of actually finding the kind of shoes that Nigerian females wanted, and
thereby we brought in stylists that started picking out our shoes.
We're going through those trends. And so far we came out of it fine and we're growing.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Early this year, heels.com.ng secured seed funding from U.S. investors. It allowed the company to expand its product
range and hire full-time staff.
ONKONKOW: Now we have over 500 styles at any given point in time. We have close to 4,000 shoes.
Currently, as of last count, we shipped out over 8,500 shoes. It's a market with a high demand.
I see heels.com.ng and the one-stop shop female shoes. I see us going into making our own shoes to offer that for the (inaudible). I know that
from seeing what we've been selling before, I know when we go into production of our own shoe we can offer the same quality. So I see us
having our own shoes in the nearest future.
ANDERSON: At 48 minutes past 7:00 you're back with CNN and Connect the World with me Becky Anderson out of the UAE, Abu Dhabi.
Now to an inside perspective on life in North Korea. Despite a recent clash with South Korea and a snub from China, a North Korean defector says
that leader Kim Jong-un remains solidly in power. CNN's Kyung Lah spoke to the defector exclusively for this network.
KYUNG LAH, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): To the outside world Kim Jong-un appears overly young at times a caricature. But
to his people, there is little doubt about their dictator's capacity, says this North Korean defector.
"They are terrified," he says. "The fear grows more intense every day."
Fear that drove this defector to dare the harrowing escape out of North Korea. He agreed to speak with us only if we completely hid him in
the shadows and altered his voice.
This defector, who worked among Pyongyang's elite, fears the regime would murder his family trapped in the North or hunt him down. But he wants
the Western world to know what life under Kim Jong-un is really like.
(On camera): Do you think he's more of a tyrant than his father?
(Voice-over): Kim Jong-il didn't kill people in his circle, he says, but Kim Jong-un killed many of his own. Purging close advisers like his own
uncle Chang Song-thaek. His former right-hand man, executed.
"After that, I thought I need to hurry up and leave this hell on earth."
(On camera): Is that how it feels like in North Korea? Hell on earth?
(Voice-over): "Yes, of course."
(On camera): You see these crowds cheering and crying as Kim Jong-un approaches. Do they believe it?
(Voice-over): "It's blind worship. They're programmed to clap and cheer when they see Kim Jong-un on TV, but in my personal opinion, upper
class elites don't believe it."
(On camera): This number is quite high.
[11:50:19] UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Quite high.
LAH (voice-over): Seoul National University interviewed 146 North Koreans who defected in 2014. The most extensive research conducted with
recent defectors. The defectors perceive internal support was highest in 2012 when Kim Jong-un took control but they believe that support has
steadily dropped during his reign.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: New leader.
LAH (on camera): New leader.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: New leader.
LAH (voice-over): Can the new leader earn trust from his elites after the purges, he asks. They could be feeling anxious. Their loyalty weakened.
It's already happening, believes this defector.
"I can tell you for sure, upper class North Koreans don't trust Kim Jong-un."
(On camera): Do you see the regime lasting?
(Voice-over): "There is no collapse of North Korea while Kim Jong-un is alive," says this defector. "North Korea will not collapse as long as
Kim Jong-un lives."
Kyung Lah, CNN, Seoul.
ANDERSON: You're watching Connect the World with me Becky Anderson. Just after 10 to 8:00. The pope makes another announcement that ripples
across the world. I'm going to tell you what he said up next.
ANDERSON: Right, you're watching CNN. This is Connect the World with me Becky Anderson. Welcome back.
Last part of the show. And Pope Francis has announced radical reforms to the way that Catholics obtain marriage annulments. Three of the main
changes include eliminating a second review by a cleric before the marriage can be nullified. In certain circumstances, bishops will be able to grant
the annulments themselves. The pope also says that the process should be free accept for a free for administrative costs and should be completed
within 45 days.
Let's cross live to Rome and speak to CNN's Vatican correspondent Delia Gallagher who I hope can really flesh out the significance of what
appears to be this sort of new era for Pope Francis -- a new, new era as it were.
GALLAGHER: That's right, Becky.
What the pope has done today is streamline a process, which he himself admitted was too long and costly.
You know, annulments could take anywhere from one to five years, cost a couple of hundred, if not a couple of thousand dollars. So he has said
today let's make them free with the exception of some administrative fees. He has fast-tracked those annulments that are not contested, and which he
says have obvious grounds, some obvious grounds being coercion at the time of marriage, or an extramarital affair at the time of the marriage, or the
brevity of the marriage.
And as he mentioned, he has said that in some cases the bishop himself can decide and issue a verdict. So, these are all aimed at streamlining
Now why does he want to streamline the process, because he wants to try to welcome back people who may have gotten a civil divorce but didn't
bother to get an annulment because they thought it's too long and too costly. Now they're in a new relationship and they want to get married
again in the Catholic Church.
Why do they want to get married again in the Catholic church? Because in this new relationship the Catholic church still considers them married
to their first spouse, so they're in an irregular situation.
And this is important, because it has been the hot button issue for the last year and will come up again in October at the international
meeting of bishops and cardinals. What do we do with people who are civilly divorced but did not get an annulment, are in a new relationship,
perhaps civilly married, and they cannot receive communion, that's according to the laws of the church. There are some cardinals who want to
give them communion and some who say, no, the laws don't allow for it.
This is a way around that, by saying let's make the annulment easier so those people who are in a new relationship now, maybe divorced 10 or 20
years ago, but they can go back and get that annulment and therefore they can have a new Catholic marriage and receive communion and therefore be in
good standing with the church. That's it in a nutshell why this news today is important -- Becky.
ANDERSON: Well done. Thank you.
Delia is in Rome for you.
And Pope Francis is also weighing in on the crisis in Europe calling on churches to take in refugees. He tweeted, and I quote, "may every
parish and religious community in Europe host a refugee family #Jubilee and #refugeeswelcome."
Well, as European leaders begin to heed the pope's words, tonight's Parting Shots a snapshot of Europe's migrant crisis as it stands now. On
its southern tip, refugees smile as they jump off their small boat having survived the voyage across the sea to arrive in Greece.
Further along their journey, but still far away from their destination, migrants on the border between Serbia and Hungary are hemmed
in between two countries that don't want them.
But for those who can, wherever they are, they just keep on walking and still amidst all the trouble a young Syrian boy doesn't seem to have
lost the ability to have just a little bit of fun.
I'm Becky Anderson. That was Connect the World. Join us tomorrow night when we'll be in Amman in Jordan where a fifth of the population, a
fifth, are Syrian refugees. That is the equivalent of 12 million refugees in the UK, 60 million in the U.S. That is the impact on neighboring
countries of the human catastrophe that is the Syrian civil war.