Return to Transcripts main page

Legal View with Ashleigh Banfield

Davis' Lawyers Seek Release; Refugee Crisis; Freddie Gray Settlement. Aired 12-12:30p ET

Aired September 08, 2015 - 12:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[12:00:00] KATE BOLDUAN, CNN ANCHOR: All your cash.

JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: You win. You win.

BOLDUAN: That's - like, that's crazy.

Thanks for joining us "AT THIS HOUR," guys.

BERMAN: LEGAL VIEW with Ashleigh Banfield starts right now.

ASHLEIGH BANFIELD, CNN ANCHOR: Hundreds of frustrated refugees breaking through police lines at the Hungarian/Serbian border, literally running for their lives, joining tens of thousands of others on a long and desperately difficult journey into western Europe.

And also this hour, schools are closed, one woman is in jail and two presidential candidates have come to town to meet with her and join the protest as gay marriage, God versus government, all of it boils down in Kentucky.

And the city of Baltimore now ready to play Freddie Gray's family millions of dollars as six officers indicted in his death are still preparing to go on criminal trial.

Hello, everyone. I'm Ashleigh Banfield and welcome to LEGAL VIEW.

The legal, the political, the religious, philosophical forces that are driving the debate over marriage in rural Kentucky are pretty much just about ready to collide. One hour from now, Texas senator and Republican presidential hopeful Ted Cruz is due to speak outside of the jail where Rowan County clerk Kim Davis has been locked up since Thursday. He is slipping in just ahead of his rival, GOP contender Mike Huckabee, who's been promoting his visit and religious freedom rally and his "I'm with Kim" hashtag. He's been doing that for days now.

Those two candidates don't plan to meet one another - certainly not. For their part, Kim Davis' attorneys have now filed numerous appeals with the Sixth Circuit U.S. Court of Appeals aimed at trying to get Kim Davis out of that jail cell and also aimed at forcing Kentucky's governor to find some work around that at the same time respects her religious objections to same-sex marriage while guarantees that she can still do the job she loves. There's no way of knowing when that court might actually rule or certainly what they might do.

And while we all wait for these events and these developments, I call on CNN's Martin Savidge, who is smack dab in the middle of it all.

That flurry of appeals has been happening since, what, the last 48 hours, Martin. But in the meantime, there's a flurry of activity, too. Take me there.

MARTIN SAVIDGE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, I mean, it's an astounding day really when you take into account that this is a very small community, under 5,000 people here Grayson, and yet you've got a day when you've got not one but two presidential candidates coming to town, not to mention you've got the center of the universe for a debate over religious freedom and, of course, same-sex marriage.

So I'm going to bring in now the mayor of this community, Mayor George Steele.

Thank you very much for joining us.

MAYOR GEORGE STEELE, GRAYSON, KENTUCKY: Thank you.

SAVIDGE: How is this community coping with all of this?

STEELE: Well, the community is doing quite well considering that this is something that they didn't ask for, but the community's up to the challenge and everybody has been responding very well. The churches have been providing a lot of help down here with water and food and we've had - we've had really good support to try to make what's happening be good for the community and for everybody.

SAVIDGE: What is your concern, your worry as leader of this community, about all of this?

STEELE: Any - any mayor gets a little nervous when something - an event of this magnitude comes into their city, especially in a small city like Grayson, Kentucky. My concern first off is the safety of everyone. We want - we want everyone to feel safe. And certainly to get our political leaders in and out of town without - without great incident. And I hope when everybody leave this town they will say that we were a friendly, cordial, helpful community.

SAVIDGE: I have to ask you this, what are your personal feelings on this situation with Miss Davis, both as, you know, a public official and also her religious beliefs? Where do you stand?

STEELE: I - I would love - this is a difficult issue to address for me, but I will address it to the best of my ability. From - I don't think Miss Davis should be locked up, but I also understand how government works and I understand how our federal judges have to operate. And our - Judge Bunting (ph) ruled as the case was handed down to him. Ms. Davis had the right to do what she's doing also.

How are the issues going to be resolved? I don't know. I do know that there is - there is a way - there's a solution to it, but it's going to have to be between the state and its people and not the federal governance and its people because we are a nation of laws and rules and we have judges over us that interpret and make those - interpret those rules. And we have to live - my Christian faith says we have to live - we have to live under those rules.

[12:05:17] SAVIDGE: Let me ask you one question. It may be a bit unfair. And that is, if you had been in her shoes, faced with that kind of dilemma, what would you have done?

STEELE: Who knows? If my convictions - and I really don't want - it's a hard question to answer because I'm not - I don't want to offend anybody.

SAVIDGE: It's just you personally I'm asking.

STEELE: My - my personal view would be probably I would have - I would have stepped down. But that's not to say that Miss Davis should have stepped down.

SAVIDGE: I understand. I understand and I respect your opinion. Mayor, thank you very much for having us in your community and good luck to you.

STEELE: Thank you.

SAVIDGE: So, Ashleigh, I should tell you, it's all hands on deck when it comes to public safety forces here. They haven't got that many. They've been bolstered by surrounding communities and they hope everything will turn out just fine. They just don't know how long it's going to last, Ashleigh.

BANFIELD: Yes. And, obviously, that's why they went ahead and canceled school for so many of those schools down there in the district. Martin Savidge keeping an eye on things for us, thank you for that.

And again, the presidential candidate, Governor Mike Huckabee and Senator Ted Cruz are going to be visiting Kim Davis in jail and you can hear from Senator Cruz live at 1:00 p.m. Eastern right here on CNN.

Plus, I'm also going to speak with the lawyer - one of them, because there are several - defending Kim Davis and her stand against gay marriage and her right to do her job.

Also just ahead, hundreds upon hundreds of refugees refusing to wait any longer and breaking through police lines out of a holding area with their children in tow. Thousands of others on the incredibly long journey across Europe running for their lives.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[12:10:34] BANFIELD: We have some breaking news coming into us from Capitol Hill, where lawmakers just back from their August recess are staking their positions on the nuclear deal with Iran. Live picture for you, the Capitol, obviously, undergoing some construction while this happened, a 41st senator declared his support for that deal. That's important because the deal's opponents want to pass a resolution of disapproval. And under Senate rules, 41 senators can block that from ever coming up for a vote. Until now, the administration's strategy has been to veto the

disapproval measure, assuming it passed both houses and hope for enough support to prevent a veto override. Got all that? I know it's tricky, that's why my colleague, Wolf Blitzer, is on it and he's going to break it all down, make it real simple. That's all coming up in the next hour on his program "WOLF." It starts at 1:00 Eastern Time.

I want to take you now to this. This is just - it's just unbelievable, the refugee crisis in Europe and the Middle East. These are the faces of sheer desperation, thousands upon thousands of people, people like you, middle class. These were doctors and pharmacists and mechanics and hairdressers running for their lives, leaving Syria where it is war and ISIS that threatens their every breath and trying to make it to Europe.

Today refugees at a holding camp along the Hungarian-Serbian border decided enough. They broke through the police line and they ran for freedom with children and elderly. I mean, children carrying children. CNN's Arwa Damon was with them when they took off for safety.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ARWA DAMON, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: We're running now with these migrants and refugees who just broke out of the holding area right along the border with Serbia. The police are literally right behind them. CNN. The police are literally right behind them and in front, trying to bring them under control. There are hundreds of them that staged this breakout because they were fed up at the conditions they were being held in. They couldn't take it anymore. Young, old, men, parents with families, all breaking through and now also being pursued by the police force through this corn field.

This all kicked off about half an hour ago and there are people who have been carrying their children. There are some elderly among the crowds. These are people who at this stage are literally running for their lives.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BANFIELD: I want to go live now to Arwa Damon for the very latest. She's joining me now on the telephone. This has been a very difficult assignment to cover. She's live in southern Hungary.

First, Arwa, my hats off to you and to your producer, Brent Swails, and your photojournalist, Peter Cavanaugh (ph), trying to - to cover that story. I'm sure not one of you thought that that was about to happen and yet your dogged pursuit of the truth of this story has been nothing short of remarkable. Let me know what's happening now, where you are and what you're seeing.

DAMON (via telephone): Well, right now, actually, we're following a bus that all of the refugees got into. What happened from the moment where you showed that clip in the hours up until now is that they ran for as long as they could but eventually the police did catch up to them, especially those who were carrying the children. They were just lagging behind. But as the police caught up to them, the large group actually split in

half. And we ended up staying with one portion of it. Eventually, they slowed down to a walk. The police circled them completely and tried on a couple of occasions to stop them from moving forward, but the young men consistently managed to push through those police lines. In some case when they were walking on the train tracks, the police actually stopped a single carriage vehicle train that was on these tracks and then allowed the refugees to move past them.

[12:15:05] They eventually convinced them to stop, saying that they would bring them food and water. And then pretty lengthy negotiations began. The result of which was a pledge by the police that the buses would arrive. That the buses would take them to a location, we're not exactly sure where, which is why we're following these buses, but that tomorrow morning they would then be able to board trains that would take them to the Austria-Hungary border.

These people, as they were running, were throwing away whatever few belongings they were carrying. Some tossing aside their bags and backpacks, unable to keep going with them. Some of the children lost their shoes. After a while, the kids began crying, being carried by their parents, confused, not really sure what was happening, where they were going. I think a lot of people very relieved that this has come to a resolution. Especially a resolution that means, if it does play out the way it is intended to, means that they will be getting closer to their end - end location, which is Germany, and for others further on to western Europe.

BANFIELD: So -

DAMON: But this is really the by-product, Ashleigh, of what happens when people can't cope anymore. They couldn't deal with the conditions at that holding area. They couldn't deal with the length of the wait. They just want to keep going because at this stage they're so mentally, physically, emotionally exhausted that they - they can't cope any more and so, yes, we do see these kinds of desperate actions like breaking through a police line and making a run for it.

BANFIELD: You know, and, Arwa, I just want to remind our viewers as they look at your remarkable pictures, you know, these people are the middle class of Syria. These are dentists and accountants and clerks and, you know, people just like Americans who, you know, whether it was Bashar al Assad's barrel bombs or whether it was ISIS in the night, they are running for their lives.

But I want to show our viewers how far this journey has been because, Arwa, you're talking about from these camps that were horrifying. Let's start right in Syria so that everybody knows how long the route has been. Syria to Turkey. Turkey onto Greece. A horrible journey. Then Greece on to Macedonia. Macedonia to Serbia. Serbia and Hungary. That border where you have been. And then on to Austria. And then on to Germany. If you are looking at this map, it is massive. It's about 2,500 miles. It's like taking a walk from New York to Las Vegas through all of the horrible conditions in between. The deathly boat journeys, mountains and very unfriendly territories as well. So just so everyone knows what - what these people have already been

through. Arwa, was there nothing less torturous for them? Was there nothing closer to home that they could have done for safety? Was there no one else? No other countries willing to help them or at least less hostile to them?

DAMON: You know, and there's been quite a lot of debate about that and discussion about, you know, people coming out and saying, well, why don't they just stay in Turkey? They were safe in Turkey. Or, you know, Lebanon, or Jordan. Well, the problem is, is when you've left your home and when your home is physically destroyed or you cannot go back to it because your country is as ravaged by war as a place like Syria is, when you accept the reality that that war is not going to end any time soon and that you cannot actually call your homeland home anymore, then, yes, you do try to start somewhere else. And a lot of these people tried to make ends meet in countries like Turkey and Lebanon.

But Turkey, for example, has taken in close to two million refugees. Lebanon's population right now, a quarter of Lebanon's population, they are refugees. Those two countries cannot sustain this. These people cannot get jobs in these countries. Their children do not have access to an education. So in their thinking about security, their thinking about their physical security, yes, but also about securing a future for themselves and for their families and that's why they make this journey because they've had to accept that very tough reality of not being able to go back home, not in their lifetime because wars in Syria and Iraq and Afghanistan are not going to end and that's why they make this phenomenally difficult journey because they don't believe that there are any other places in the world and they don't necessarily want to go and live in the (INAUDIBLE) not necessarily a place that is willing to take them in or a country, countries that they want to begin building (INAUDIBLE).

They want a future of freedom for their children.

BANFIELD: Yes.

DAMON: They want a future where human rights are (INAUDIBLE) dignities are respected and they do believe that that exists for them in (INAUDIBLE). That's why they do this.

BANFIELD: And it should be noted as well the international treaties out there that so many of those countries are not signatory to that would require them to accept refugees. And Saudi Arabia part of it. Several of the Gulf states there just not places that they can possibly end up in.

[12:20:15] Arwa, you have done incredible work and that goes for Brent Swails and Peter Cavanaugh, as well, working with you. Our thanks to you for bringing us this incredible story.

Coming up next, the city of Baltimore ready to settle and pay Freddie Gray's family millions of dollars. But might that have an impact on the trials of those six officers who are still facing criminal prosecution? Sure, the civil may be wrapped up, but should it have waited for criminal?

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BANFIELD: This just in. The city of Baltimore is proposing a settlement with Freddie Gray's family. And it is for $6.4 million. You will probably remember that Freddie Gray died after suffering a fatal spinal injury while he was being transported in a police van. It happened back in April. And six police officers have been charged in his death. They're now all going to be tried separately for that.

This morning the city issued a statement saying that the proposed settlement will resolve all civil claims related to Mr. Gray's death. And the mayor, Stephanie Rowlings-Blake, pointed that out. and I will quote her. She said, "the proposed settlement should not be interpreted as a judgment on the guilt or innocence of the officers facing trail." Again, that's the mayor saying those words. She goes on to say, "in the best interest of the city and avoids - it's in the best interest of the city and it avoids costly and protracted litigation that would only make it more difficult for our city to heal and potentially cost taxpayers many more millions in damages."

[12:25:15] Can't argue with that, but there is a lot to argue with on this entire story. And for that legal view I want to bring in HLN legal analyst and defense attorney Joey Jackson.

So, first off, $6.4 million, not out of the ballpark of normalcy when it comes to these kinds of cases, wrongful death.

JOEY JACKSON, HLN LEGAL ANALYST: It is not. And as was mentioned, it's a proposal and the proposal has to be approved by a board of estimate. That's comprised of five officials in Baltimore, including the mayor, who you spoke to the statement that she made. The city council president is on there. The head of the law department, public works official. So they would have to approve it.

But if you look at it, you will relate it to other things that have occurred. Remember Eric Garner, choke hold in New York -

BANFIELD: Also dead.

JACKSON: That occurred Staten Island. Dead. That settled for $5.9 million. But, of course, it settled after any criminal matter went forward. As we know -

BANFIELD: Thank you for mentioning that.

JACKSON: Yes.

BANFIELD: Because that's where I started to wonder, wait a minute -

JACKSON: Yes.

BANFIELD: Isn't this a little soon? It is almost to a "t" that civil procedures wait.

JACKSON: They do. BANFIELD: Casey Anthony. It waited for her criminal procedure because

you cannot taint something that is so dangerous to people's lives.

JACKSON: Fabulous point. And just to conclude about Eric Garner, we know that the officer went to the grand jury. It happened July 17 of last year. It went to the grand jury. The grand jury found no true bill. So there was no prosecution. But still the civil settlement, of course, came after any evaluation of the crime.

Going back to Rodney King, Ashleigh, if you think about that, in 1991, L.A. riots of '92 were caused in large measure because the four officers were acquitted. Of course, the federal government came back and said they indicted them and they got criminal convictions on two of them. But, again, that settlement happened in '94, where he got $3.9 million.

BANFIELD: Can I just ask you real fast, I've got to wrap it.

JACKSON: Sure.

BANFIELD: But this is not going to be ignored by the defense attorneys who want a change of venue.

JACKSON: It's a great point. Absolutely. Because I think - and you saw through the statement that you read because the mayor is say, listening, this is not - we're not saying that they're guilty. And that needs to be really, really related here. It's very important.

BANFIELD: Right. You can say it. You can say all you want but you're paying money!

JACKSON: But what a jury - exactly. But, you know, these settlements oftentimes are wrapped around issues of no liability or anything like that is admitted to and it's done - settlements are done for a variety of reasons not related to guilt, that they can relate to other matters.

BANFIELD: Just timing. Timing.

JACKSON: So the criminal matter will go forward and we'll see if there's criminality.

BANFIELD: Joey Jackson, thank you. Appreciate it.

JACKSON: Thank you, Ashleigh.

BANFIELD: About an hour from now, we are expecting a news conference, in fact, on the investigation into who shot and killed Illinois Police Officer Joe Gliniewicz. Remember, the 52-year-old lieutenant was just laid to rest yesterday. He was a Fox Lake officer. Three suspects continue to be at large. The search is on. And we only know at this point that they are two white men and one black man, but that is it. Friday we thought authorities were on the brink of identifying them. We were waiting. Police have obtained some home security video. We know that. Video from a truck driver's vehicle. But we don't know what those videos show. And again, that Fox Lake police briefing is expected to take place at

1:30 Eastern Time. We're going to cover it for you live. Stay tuned to CNN for that.

And coming up next, the Kentucky clerk who's in jail for refusing to give marriage licenses to gay couples has at least two presidential candidates on her side and paying her a visit. But what about the federal court because they're the folks who really matter right now. The whole thing's on appeal. I'm going to ask her lawyer about it next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)