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Amanpour
Thousands of Refugees Cross into Austria Every Single Day; The Thorn in Beijing's Side; Imagine a World. Aired 2-2:30p ET
Aired September 10, 2015 - 14:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
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CHRISTIANE AMANPOUR, CNN HOST (voice-over): Tonight: bowing to pressure, now the United States says it will take in thousands of Syrian refugees
next year while, here in Europe, Austria's president tells me that mandatory national quotas are the only way to share the burden.
Also ahead, the world's most famous modern artist and activist, Ai Weiwei, free at last to attend his own retrospective here in London. An exclusive
preview of this work and being a new kind of artist.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
AI WEIWEI, CHINESE ARTIST AND DISSIDENT: I'm artist, not design for museums. I'm design for the people.
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AMANPOUR: Good evening, everyone, and welcome to the program. I'm Christiane Amanpour.
The Obama administration has just said that it will accept 10,000 Syrian refugees, up from nearly 1,500 that it's taken in since the Syria war began
4.5 years ago. While hundreds of thousands have come to Europe, today Austria has had to temporarily suspend all its train services with Hungary
due to massive congestion as it tries to cope with the volume crossing its border en route to Germany.
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AMANPOUR (voice-over): While neighboring Hungary is trying to keep them out by rapidly finishing a border fence. many refugees are still being
prevented from onward travel or are being held in what they say are appalling camps. Those who can, reach Austria at the border town of
Nickelsdorf. Thousands of Syrians and Iraqis are welcomed there every day before most then move on to the capital, Vienna, and on to Germany.
Earlier, I spoke to the Austrian president, Heinz Fischer, who told me that his country supports a quota program.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
AMANPOUR: President Fischer, welcome to the program.
HEINZ FISCHER, AUSTRIAN PRESIDENT: Good evening.
AMANPOUR: Could I first start by asking you, Austria, we've seen, has been taking in a lot of refugees.
What is your feeling when you see this tide of desperate humanity?
FISCHER: Well, it's a worldwide or at least Europe-wide catastrophe and a lot of human suffering is just now happening. And I know how complicated
the problem is.
We have some experience; if I look back at Hungarian refugees during the Revolution in the '50s and Czech refugees in the '68 events. But now it's
more people. It's another region.
But I have a certain amount of optimism that Austrian people are behaving in a way that we can overcome and manage this heavy problem.
AMANPOUR: Well, you actually mentioned Hungary and Czech -- it was Czechoslovakia then -- under their Soviet crackdowns, lots of their
refugees fled to your countries. They are not doing so well in that regard right now, not showing a great spirit of generosity.
But do you accept the quotas that the E.C. president, Jean-Claude Juncker, just yesterday, asked you all to take?
Will you accept the number that he's asked?
I think you've been assigned 3,640.
FISCHER: First of all, I want to say that serious activity of the European Union is urgently necessary. The plan of Juncker is a good plan in
general. Austria supports the idea of such quotas and it will help us. And more than that, it is absolutely necessary.
Of course, you can negotiate the numbers in detail. But in general, I feel it just and fair if Austria takes roughly 2.5 percent or 3 percent,
according to our population and to our economic possibilities.
So my answer is positive to this plan.
AMANPOUR: So let me ask you the obvious domestic political question.
You took to Facebook to praise the Austrian people for facing down any notion of xenophobia or attacks against these refugees.
And yet, the polls show that the anti-immigration party ranks highest of all parties in Austria right now. For instance, a Gallup poll shows the
Freedom Party, an anti-immigration party, is 29 percent. Social Democrats are --
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AMANPOUR: -- 23 percent, et cetera.
So they have the -- they have the upper hand politically.
Is it going to make it complicated when you say Austria's willing to accept these immigrants -- rather, these refugees?
FISCHER: Well, if you look at the party spectrum in Austria, you are quite right. And we have a strong opposition party that is -- which is very
critical to immigrants and refugees and to the policy of the government.
But on the other hand, you must see that the biggest party, Social Democratic Party, in coalition with the conservatives, the Christian
Democratic Party, supported by at least one opposition party, namely the Greens, supported by great parts of the civil society, supported by the
Catholic and the Protestant Church are a big group in the Austrian society and in Austria as such.
And this group has a positive and reasonable and humanitarian approach. And I hope we will overcome the behavior and the positions of the Freedom
Party.
AMANPOUR: Well, right now, because of so many people coming over to Austria, some of them want to transit through Austria; the national railway
has said that the train stations and the others are suspended temporarily from Hungary because there's just too much traffic.
You yourself have said that you expect around 80,000 asylum seekers this year alone. That's a huge increase from last year and the year before.
Can you cope?
FISCHER: The figures are right. We had last year 28,000 asylum seekers and our estimations for this year, 2015, are around 80,000. And this is
quite a burden, quite a big number.
But just the railways you mentioned are doing a real good job. The Austrian railway have a position that is really a good example how to
manage that situation.
I will go to the main railway station in Vienna tomorrow myself to have a look on this. And the present situation cannot be continued indefinitely.
But at the moment, we have solved the problems; the railway company has transported and accepted refugees; have performed with additional engines
and additional vagons and so I can be definitely proud in our communication and railway system.
AMANPOUR: Let me ask you about the root cause of all this, I mean, as well all know, it's principally the war in Syria and other wars. But so many
Syrian refugees are coming across.
Does this have any chance of stopping, this tide of humanity, unless the war stops?
FISCHER: It must have a chance. We cannot discuss whether or not there is a chance. We must do our utmost and we must do everything to stop the war
in Syria, to stop the turbulences in Iraq, to manage the situation in Libya because you are definitely right.
These are not refugees from our neighborhood; these are refugees, which are victims of the war and the civil war and the terror in the near Middle
East.
And international policy is obliged to take any possible step to reduce the war, to stop the war, to stabilize the situation and I use every
opportunity, like this interview with CNN, to ask the world opinion and the international community to help to stop this war, which is lasting already
as long as World War I and reaching soon the time of World War II. That's a real catastrophe.
AMANPOUR: Well, you say you're asking the world through this interview.
But what about the president of Iran?
You are the first European head of state to have visited Iran in more than 10 years.
What did you say to President Rouhani, who is Assad's biggest backer -- that is Iran, militarily -- about helping end the war, as you say, and
stopping this flood of refugees?
FISCHER: I was deliberating very carefully whether or not to accept the invitation. And my decision was to accept the invitation, to take the
chance to be there, to have a discussion with the leadership and I have the impression of President Rouhani that he definitely belongs to those in Iran
who are called more --
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FISCHER: -- moderate and world interested and ready for negotiations.
And at a press conference I had together with President Rouhani, he was asked whether he, as president of Iran, would be ready to participate on
negotiations and discussions to stop the war in Syria and his answer in this press conference was to make peace or to promote peace in Iran, we sit
down with everybody who has the same goals.
So he included negotiations with the United States and Russia and European countries to stop the war. And this was very important, from my judgment
and in my opinion.
AMANPOUR: President Heinz Fischer, thank you so much indeed for joining us tonight.
FISCHER: Thank you, all the best to you. Have a nice evening.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
AMANPOUR: So the war in Syria, of course, let's not forget, started with ordinary street demonstrations during the Arab Spring. Now it was the
acclaimed Chinese artist and activist, Ai Weiwei, who once said, quote, "There are no outdoor sports as graceful as throwing stones at a
dictatorship."
Now free from years under house arrest, Ai Weiwei is here, putting the finishing touches on a major new retrospective that's opening soon at
London's Royal Academy. He gives us an exclusive preview -- next.
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AMANPOUR: Welcome back to the program.
Ai Weiwei is one of China's most famous faces and loudest moral voices. For that, Beijing has tried to keep him silent and out of sight, under
house arrest for the past four years until this summer when to his surprise, he got his passport back and was allowed to travel abroad.
Ai Weiwei is now in London for a major retrospective. It's the first time in nearly five years that he's been able to attend the opening of one of
his own shows overseas, enjoying the capacity crowds, who clamor to see his work. And tonight we'll take you to the Royal Academy for an exclusive
glimpse before the big reveal next week. But first, our interview right here on set.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
AMANPOUR: Ai Weiwei, welcome back to the program.
AI: Thank you.
AMANPOUR: It's about five years since you were last on this show and a lot has happened in those five years. You were, as we see, you'd been
arrested, you'd been under house arrest. You were sent away somewhere that nobody knew about for months.
What was that like?
How did you endure that deprivation of freedom?
AI: Most of the think you are saying you will never get back this freedom. But suddenly it comes. And I'm so enjoyed to sense every bit of it.
AMANPOUR: How did it just come suddenly?
AI: It comes through quite long struggle. You know, it was five -- almost five years, this endless conversation through -- between the police and me
and a lot of contacts and a lot of this kind of back-and-forth.
I don't know when and how they would make this decision. I would have my passport, but I think I will never have my passport.
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AMANPOUR: One of the pieces of art that you created while you were under house arrest was this image of fresh flowers in the basket of your bicycle
outside your house every day.
What were you saying?
AI: Well, this is probably the most peaceful demonstration you can do when you're under house arrest. You -- I just bought a bunch of fresh flowers
and put in a bicycle basket, daily be doing that.
And very soon the flowers will be taken away by the villagers. They put in every home. And they wouldn't even know why this person put this here for
600 days.
AMANPOUR: Amazing. And you also made a sculpture out of the surveillance cameras that the police had around your house.
What were you saying to them?
AI: I -- because people, normally they surveillance, you -- but even then, the authorities, they don't like this to be public.
And so I would have put it as a monumental sculpture to accept that as part of what today's language, to say you are being monitored and your privacy
is being taken away and we know you are; we know what you are doing.
AMANPOUR: What does your view of how a society can live or express itself under centralized government, under that kind of censorship and
surveillance?
AI: It's very hard. It's very hard for you, just one point of view or one sentence that tells you what to do. There's no argument. There's no
layers of opinions or -- you know, this makes the society not vibrate, not --
(CROSSTALK)
AMANPOUR: It's not a vibrant society. And yet people from the outside look at China and say, well, actually, it's vibrant; look at the economic
progress. Look at the manufacturing. Look at all that's happened over the last several years.
AI: I think it's very fragile. Because lacking freedom of expression makes the society lacking of creativity. They cannot really make
individuals to realize that's their responsibility to be creative, to be passionate, to have imagination and to -- only because they don't have all
the information. They never feel they have the rights or they never feel they should bear the responsibility.
AMANPOUR: You have taken the world by storm. You have really dominated the world of activism and also the world of art, certainly publicly.
But as you know, there are a lot of people who argue about who you really are.
Are you an activist or are you an artist?
Is your activism more powerful and better than your art?
That's the debate that certain art critics are having.
AI: Yes, there's a lot of argument. But what I'm concerned with is being a man, being a person who have a full understanding about our own
condition, our dignity and our rights. I think that those are combined together. I think this is the quality of a new artist.
AMANPOUR: So you consider yourself the new kind of artist?
AI: Oh, yes. I'm artist, not design for museums. I'm design for the people, for communication on the Internet and for selfies, for -- you know,
just conversations, interviews. And I think that those absolutely are necessary and also bring me out, reach out for much broader audience.
AMANPOUR: Well, let me go back to where you really did that very, very painfully, the first really sort of speaking to the people about the people
was after the 2008 earthquake in Sichuan.
And because the government was being slow and not transparent, you and your team discovered all the names of more than 5,000 kids who were killed; you
published those names.
And I remember, you made it a huge art installation with backpacks, more than 5,000 backpacks representing those kids.
Do you feel that it is your role as an artist and an activist to speak particularly for your own people, Chinese people, who may not be able to
speak themselves?
AI: I sense more and more a responsibility when I become more well-known, when I become more recognized by young people. So I think there's so many
people that would never have their words to be heard and that it disappears, that they are silently being jailed under their -- they are
being forgotten.
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AI: And this is not a history we should continue. I have to be -- give out my voice, even if very clearly it will do some damage to me.
AMANPOUR: We're looking at you with the backpacks now.
When you did that piece of work and when you do others, are you not afraid of even worse treatment than you've had already at the hands of the
authorities?
AI: It could be much worse. I'm very lucky. I have nothing to ask at this point. So I don't think I can lose anything.
AMANPOUR: So you're asking for nothing and.?
AI: No, I don't think so. I don't think anybody can hurt me and I don't think my belief can be changed in any possibility.
AMANPOUR: Again, it's interesting to hear you say that because you come from a very distinguished artistic family.
Your father was one of the great Chinese 20th century poets and, during the Cultural Revolution, he was sent to a labor camp and then -- and then, you
know, imprisoned for a long, long time. And you all had to live in that condition with him.
How did that affect you as an adult?
AI: I think that -- I realize that impacted me more and more; while I grow older, I start to think about my father's generation. I start to think
about millions of people, they suffered through and they sought their voice to be clearly heard. And I really think this is a history should not be
continued and I will never let my younger son to feel me as that way.
I want to -- him to remember my father has been speak out for him.
AMANPOUR: So this is for your son as much as anybody else, to know that you, his father, speaks out?
AI: Yes. If you're -- you have children, then you have to sense that responsibility -- and there are so many children has to grow up. And if
you want their work to be different, then you'd better be prepared to do something, prepare for some responsibility.
AMANPOUR: Ai Weiwei, thank you very much for coming to the studio.
AI: Thank you. So nice being with you.
AMANPOUR: Likewise.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
AMANPOUR: Trying to make his world different for the children.
And when we come back, a first look at his new exhibition here in London. Imagine a world where dead trees from Southern China live on here in
London. We'll explain -- next.
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AMANPOUR: And finally tonight, imagine a world when one of the most greatly anticipated new art shows opens without the artist. That was a
real danger for Ai Weiwei --
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AMANPOUR: -- banned from leaving China until this summer. As you've just heard, he's still speaking out, despite the deep trouble it causes him back
at home.
Before we sat down here in the studio, he gave me a personal tour of one of his signature and monumental new works at the Royal Academy.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
AMANPOUR: It's good to see you in London.
AI: It's so good to see you.
AMANPOUR: The last time was in New York.
AI: Yes.
AMANPOUR: You remember?
AI: That was a long time ago.
AMANPOUR: A long time ago, before you got arrested.
AI: Yes, yes.
AMANPOUR: Yes. Good to see you.
This is pretty amazing.
So these trees, you have literally reconstructed trees from branches and limbs and roots of a whole number of separate trees, right?
AI: Yes.
AMANPOUR: What are you trying to say with this?
AI: This will come from really -- from different mountains, from different provinces. And as trees belong to many, many different kind of trees, I
want to construct it back. But, of course, it really doesn't belong to one tree but, still, it was a memory or image of a tree.
AMANPOUR: I was stunned to learn that it was a Kickstarter, crowdfunding, it was an appeal to the public online that raised money to help bring all
this material over, all of these branches and the roots.
AI: And the people really helped support the project and get involved, which is kind of social media, to where foreign people say, I'm part of it.
I think that feeling is much larger than just a work.
AMANPOUR: Is that a little bit the point of your art or what you see as the power of your art, that it is about the people, it's about involving
people?
AI: I think the work is about expression and communication. So that's how I would measure my work, how well it's being communicated.
AMANPOUR: How do you feel being in London, being out?
AI: You know, to have this air and sunshine and -- it's so wonderful. I can't even imagine I would feel like this.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
AMANPOUR: Ah, the fresh smell of freedom.
And that's it for our program tonight. Remember, you can always see the whole show online at amanpour.com and follow me on Facebook and Twitter.
Thank you for watching and good-bye from London.
END
