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A Deadly Day At Islam's Holiest Site; Controversial Video Of Officials Throwing Food Into Crowd Of Migrants "Could Be Devastating To Europe"; Democratic Presidential Candidates Go On TV Charm Offensive. Aired 3-4p ET

Aired September 11, 2015 - 15:00:00   ET


[15:00:22] HALA GORANI, CNN INTERNATIONAL HOST: Tonight a deadly day at Islam's holiest site.


GORANI: Dozens are killed as a crane collapses at Mecca's largest mosque. We'll have the very latest details on this breaking news story this hour.

Also coming up a controversial video emerges showing Hungarian officials throwing food into a crowd of migrants. Italy's Foreign Minister tells me

scenes like this could be devastating to Europe.

Plus Democratic Presidential Candidates go on a T.V. charm offensive in the United States but will it help prop up Hilary Clinton's shrinking lead?


GORANI: Hello everyone, I'm Hala Gorani, we're live at CNN London, thanks for being with us this hour. This is The World Right Now.


GORANI: Let us begin with the breaking news from Mecca, Saudi Arabia. A crane has collapsed at one of Islam's most important mosques killing at

least 87 people that is the latest figure we have. Here is amateur video of the aftermath showing the chaos and the destruction to some parts of the


We understand 184 people have been injured. The death toll shot up in the last half hour according to a Saudi civil defense official on Twitter, and

we also have some frightening video shot by a witness that shows the moment the crane collapsed. Take a look.

Well you could hear it, you could hear also the confusion and you can see the confusion around the person who was filming that. A terrifying scene

obviously at the Masjid al-Haram.


GORANI: The mosque surrounds Islam's holiest site, the Kaaba, it's a shrine that worshipers visit during the annual Hajj pilgrimage. Weather

may have been a factor in the deadly accident, our Nick Paton Walsh is tracking developments from Beirut. And Nick just from that amateur video

its obvious there are high winds and what looks like at least a sandstorm there in some of those images.


NICK PATON WALSH, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: (Inaudible) time of year now (inaudible) but in fact the high winds began about four o'clock

local time in Saudi Arabia it caused the local temperature to drop from 42 c to 25. So significant certainly.

Information still coming in though as to the extent of the damages and the injured. As you say that death toll sadly nearly doubling in just the last

few hours or so. That is of course the most tragic figure people will be keeping their eyes out of for now but also what does this do to the heart

forthcoming? Potentially a week away from now maybe as many as 2 million people expected to go to that very place, the Grand Mosque, The Masjid al-

Haram in the middle of which you saw that black cube there that is the Kabaa.

That is the place, the original place of worship said to have been possibly 4,000 years old and is the place to which all the arrows you may, if you're

not observing Muslims see in hotel rooms points towards. It is where all Muslims are supposed to face when they make their prayer 5 times a day.

And it is the place to which you must venture if you physically are able to complete the Hajj which all Muslim males must do and around which you must

walk, counter-clockwise seven times. One of the rituals' part of that vital right of passage for Muslims since really of the decade.

But today those images you see, the crane having pierced through the roof of part of the mosque that surrounds that key cube. So it's a shocking

image frankly for any Muslim around the world to see so deeply sacred that particular area at such a vital time in the faith as well.

The Saudi authorities now saying they will be doing all they can to speed through an investigation to work out what really was the cause of this.

Yes it seems like high winds may have been the case. That crane was in place Hala, to assist in the expansion, the improvement of that mosque

because so many people were coming to perform the Hajj it was requiring extra space. And I think we're also now beginning to hear the first

international reaction because it's not just obviously a Saudi issue internationally millions coming from around the world to perform the Hajj.

The Indian Exterior Ministry has said that nine of India's pilgrims have been injured during this. We've also heard from the French Foreign

Ministry who assured the Saudis authorities of their solidarity at this very obviously tragic time.

[15:05:09] And information is still coming in now although already at this stage we know, according to Saudi authorities over 800,000 pilgrims have

already arrived in Hajj for this forthcoming Hajj. So a very populated time, those numbers going up and of course Saudi authorities doing all they

possibly can Hala, to try and salvage anybody else still stuck or requiring treatment in the wreckage there, Hala?

GORANI: Right, and for anyone who has not visited Mecca it is absolutely a sprawling construction site. We saw some overhead images of the Grand

Mosque and essentially the skyline is absolutely filled with cranes. They're adding 6 floors its $20 to $22 billion project and Metro et cetera,

so it's an extremely busy time. And you mention 800,000 pilgrims have already arrived from abroad with the Hajj starting, the pilgrimage starting

in 10 days, so busier than usual Nick?

WALSH: Absolutely and then of course maybe the reason why these numbers are so shocking although of course at this stage on a Friday, anytime

frankly, that would be a busy place indeed. Of course authorities now will be dealing with the issue of who may be trapped beneath any rubble there

beneath any wreckage getting those who require assistance to hospital as quickly as possible. Obviously Mecca itself not a massively equipped town

of infrastructure but possibly able to deal with the numbers of wounded we're hearing about so far but I'm sure the Saudi authorities given how

seismic a moment this is for such a sacred place, the Muslim faith will be throwing all the resources they possibly can at this right now.

But still Hala, going back to what appears to have been the cause of this, simply bad weather and many will be looking into quite obviously, you know

the level of security, sorry construction safety around that particular crane. But right now of course everyone is focused upon those who have

been killed and wounded and doing everything that possibly can be done for them, Hala.

GORANI: Nick Paton Walsh, our senior international correspondent covering this story. And just to reiterate for our viewers, breaking news out of

Mecca, Saudi Arabia, 87 people confirmed dead after a crane collapsed. You're seeing that crane there lying horizontally after it pierced a

portion there of the structure of the holy mosque surrounding the Kaaba. It is that red crane there, that collapsed. Not clear why it happened,

there is some talk that perhaps strong winds may have played a part. There is also a stand storm through the region. 87 dead more than 150 injured.

We'll have a lot more on this story as soon as details become available.

And do stay with us for that.


GORANI: Now moving on to the migrant crisis and a shocking video that has emerged from Hungary showing what appears to be the disturbing treatment of

refugees. We'll speak in a moment with a journalist who witnessed the scene first hand and said it resembled "animals being fed in a pen."

First, Arwa Damon shows us what happened inside a migrant facility near the Serbian border.


ARWA DAMON, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: The sandwiches carelessly chucked into the crowd by Hungarian police. Arms waving,

grasping for them, people forced to scramble.

The activist who filmed this on September 9th could not believe what he was seeing. Surely the Hungarian police could not be distributing food like

this to refugees and migrants who had just trekked for weeks. People who fled war, (inaudible) poverty and depression. A government spokesman told

CNN that the crowd did not line up properly, was on the verge of a riot and police were trying to keep them under control.

But testimony we have heard from people who have been through the facility say this sort of treatment is the norm.

It happened here in this blue building, one of the main transit camps close to the Hungarian border with Serbia. Refugees we've spoken to over the

last few weeks were all appalled and horrified by their experience here.

From the lack of adequate food and water to the crammed conditions, to the lack of sanitation and access to medical care. They all said that their

treatment was inhumane.

For many the hardships of the road to Western Europe are anticipated but no-one expected the treatment they saw here in Hungary.

It's a prison and it's surrounded by guards this Syrian refugee we met previously told us. They throw the water at us and you have scramble for

it like an animal. We met at the Budapest train station. She did not want her identity disclosed, unable to bear the thought of her loved ones seeing

her languish like this.

Human Rights Watch like the media barred from entering the camp issued a scathing report describing the conditions as abysmal. Further stating that

the massive influx of some 3,000 crossing daily do not absolve Hungary of its legal responsibilities.

[15:10:15] And paramount among those responsibilities is treating those who have already been through so much with some humanity.

Arwa Damon, CNN, Roszke, Hungary.


GORANI: So how is the Prime Minister of Hungary responding to all of this? Viktor Orban, well he is standing by his country's police force.

Today he said they've done an excellent job handling "people who refuse to cooperate with Hungarian authorities."


VIKTOR ORBAN, HUNGARIAN PRIME MINISTER: (Translated) In recent days there has been a defacto rebellion among illegal migrants. They occupied a

railway station, they refused to be fingerprinted, they did not cooperate, and they refused to enter facilities where they could receive care such as

food, water, shelter, or medical treatment. They have rebelled against Hungarian law.


GORANI: The disturbing footage at the refugee center was filmed by Michaela Sprtizendorfer who was delivering aid at the time. She was with

journalist and activist, Klaus Kufner. Well Klaus joins me now live from Vienna to tell us what he saw. Thanks for being with us.

First of all Klaus, you were there when Michaela filmed the footage correct?


GORANI: What did you see?


KUFNER: I see very (inaudible) police officers there, I have seen there hungry people, I have seen very small kids, and I've seen very tired

refugees. And yes, when we are bringing up our medical care to the Red Cross room who was empty, then we can have a look from the first floor down

to the basement where the refugees are. And so we have seen how the Hungarian police are handling the refugees.

GORANI: And the Hungarian officials are saying that they were controlling a situation that was very chaotic, that they were preventing a riot, did

you witness any of that?

KUFNER: No. I think officials, the Hungarian officials are lying. Really they are really, really under pressure the refugees, they were very brave,

they are - they take the situation as it is, OK. There's no aggression on the side of the refugees. They're hopeless.

GORANI: And what is the -- what are the conditions like? We're seeing some video shot by Michaela here but what are the conditions like for

refugees in terms of bathrooms, sanitation, access to medical care, in that center.

KUFNER: No there is nothing. Really, really nothing. When we are going in the Red Cross room, there we have seen no medical stuff. We were maybe

the first to bring medical stuff and there was a volunteer of the Red Cross who told me that he's in the cellar -- (inaudible), a technical profession

and he's not educated as a first emergency Red Cross helper.

GORANI: But when we see it and we're showing this video again Klaus there of police or security forces, I'm not sure if they're police but throwing

these meals at the migrants and the refugees. Do they all get the food that they need or are some of them left without food at the end of all of


KUFNER: Yes, that is correct. Some -- for big people, they can catch the food and small people like children can't catch the food. And also the it

is a small bag, there's nothing there, small bag with a small bread for grown up people also for the kids. It's not correct. Maybe it's also

against refugee (inaudible) refugee law, human rights law.

GORANI: Klaus Kufner, thanks very much. You were in that refugee processing center when this video was filmed. Thank you for being with us,

for joining us and shedding some light on what goes on inside those camps.


GORANI: I spoke earlier with the Italian Foreign Minister, this massive human migration has been impacting his country for months. I asked Paolo

Gentiloni, for his reaction to the shocking video we saw today in Hungary.


PAOLO GENTILONI, ITALIAN FOREIGN MINISTER: Europe is one of the richest parts of the world, we are 700 million person. We have -- we are capable

to manage migration without such messages that are devastating for our civilization.


[15:15:08] GORANI: All right, well he also called some of this -- the latest example of a devastating image or a video to emerge from this

crisis. Those weren't the only tough words the Italian Foreign Minister had for Hungary. Hear our entire conversation coming up in about 15


All right, we're going to have a lot more on our breaking news story out of Saudi Arabia. A crane collapsed at the city's largest mosque and has

killed at least 87 people, we'll be right back with the latest.




GORANI: Let's update you on our breaking news story out of Mecca, Saudi Arabia.


GORANI: A crane collapsed at the city's largest mosque has killed at least 87 people and injured 184 more. Here's amateur video of the aftermath

there. At one point as you watch this video you will hear the crane as it crashes down on the structure surrounding the holy mosque.

There you go, according to a Saudi civil defense official on Twitter as I mentioned 87 killed. It's still not clear exactly what caused the crane to

collapse but high winds were reported at the time.

The city is crowded with hundreds of thousands of pilgrims preparing for the annual pilgrimage, it begins in 10 days.

Let's get more now on this crane collapse and on the site of Mecca itself I'm joined on the line by Khalid Al Maeena, he's the Editor-in-Chief of the

Saudi Gazette. I understand - are you in Jeddah this hour sir?

KHALID AL MAEENA, EDITOR-IN-CHIEF, SAUDI GAZETTE: Yes, I'm Al Maeena and I'm the Editor (inaudible). I am in Jeddah which is 75km away from Mecca.

I just spoke to people in Mecca, there is a bit of chaos and there is - people are dazed. 87 people killed so far and 184 plus and a bit more, but

so far no direct cause. But as you said Mecca has been affected by inclement weather for the past few days. Heavy dust storm, followed by

rain, followed by dust storms in Jeddah visibility almost (inaudible) in certain areas could have caused. But again we have to see also what the

standard operating procedure (inaudible) cranes because they look really ominous.

I was in Mecca a couple of weeks ago, maybe three or four weeks ago and you could see these cranes and one wonders a heavy dust storm whatever it is

could have caused the collapse.

GORANI: You mention the cranes in some of the pictures you're exactly right. I mean all these dozens and dozens and dozens of cranes hovering

over the grand holy mosque because of this expansion project right now. And not just adding floors to the mosque but also digging underground to

install a metro. There is a lot going on in terms of construction in Mecca right now.

[15:20:13] AL MAEENA: I think yes, I think also I don't know whether they were soil testing or whether there was any precautionary measures to be

taken because Mecca has become like (inaudible) big, big everywhere there are construction sites around. Now we don't even know whether the crane

was properly set up or if it was the rain. There are rumors and there was a picture too on the social media of a strike - a lightning strike.

All this has to be taken into consideration but right now it's a very sad day. Luckily it happened at a moderate time or at the end of the day when

the sunset because there were less people there. Because today is Friday, the Holy Muslim day and during the Jumu'ah prayers, the Jumu'ah sermon the

mosque is jam packed. So in way that lessened the casualty figures.

GORANI: All right, Khalid Al Maeena, the Editor-in-Chief of the Saudi Gazette not far from Mecca, in Jeddah, Saudi Arabia. Thanks very much for

joining us.

We're going to take a quick break on CNN we'll be right back.




GORANI: Let's turn to sport now and the U.S. Open and a massive upset, Serena Williams, has been beaten by unseeded Italian Roberta Vinci, in the

semis. She'd been trying to win a calendar grand slam of titles but was beaten in a three set thriller.

All right, let's get the latest on this. CNN sports, Andy Scholes joins me now. What happened to Serena here that is massive?

ANDY SCHOLES, CNN INTERNATIONAL SPORTS CORRESPONDENT: I mean Hala, this is one of the biggest upsets in women's tennis history. You see a lot of the

fans falling out right now very disappointed that they're not going to get to see Serena go for that counter grand slam.

But this was an amazing match. Serena won the first set pretty easily and everyone thought this was going to go like a regular Serena match, she was

just going to cruise to victory. But then Vinci played great in the second set and won that one 6-4 and everyone's like oh we're just going to get

some extra Serena tennis this afternoon.

But that was not the case. Vinci kept coming at Serena, it was 3-3 in the third set and then she pulled away and won it with just some amazing

winners as well. I mean you know Roberta Vinci is ranked 43rd in the world, she looked like she was ranked 2nd in the world in this match. She

played unbelievably. Now she's going to be the - at 32 years old she's going to be the oldest first time grand slam finalist in the Open era in

women's tennis, and it's going to be an all Italian final now on Saturday.

It's going to be Flavia Pennetta taking on Roberta Vinci, that's something no-body had when the U.S. Open started. And Hala, I want to tell you

something about the ticket prices. When this match started the women's final was going for $280 U.S. It has dropped mightily since the end of the

match and people are selling off those tickets like crazy because again, they're not going to get to see Serena go for that calendar year grand


GORANI: All right, I'm sure if you're holding a ticket for the final - I mean it is disappointing and you want to see Serena but at the same time

this is why tennis is so fun, you sometimes get these upsets. Thanks very much Andy Scholes at Flushing Meadows.


GORANI: U.K. politics. For months after a bruising election defeat Britain's labor party will big their new leader tomorrow, Saturday.


GORANI: And a surprise candidate has appeared as the favorite, he's Jeremy Corbyn, a 66 year old veteran socialist who has been a member of parliament

for 32 years. He only scraped together the required support to even take part two minutes before nominations closed.

Corbyn has been packing town hall meetings all summer but his policies have faced criticism from senior Labor figures like Tony Blair who said the

party face annihilation if he's elected.


GORANI: Corbyn is very much the political sensation here in the United Kingdom and while his policies are noticeably different to the political

sensation of the moment in the U.S., Donald Trump, the two may have more in common than you would think.

Max Foster explains.


MAX FOSTER, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Two countries, two contests, two very different candidates.

The man on the left, Jeremy Corbyn, is an idealist, socialist, strict vegetarian and he wants to become the leader of the U.K. Labour party. The

man on the right, Donald Trump, pragmatist, billionaire, T.V. personality. He wants to win the Republican nomination for President.

[15:25:10] Whilst they might seem miles apart in political terms they're both maverick, anti-establishment figures, and if you believe the polls

they're both going to lead.

JEREMY CORBYN: First of all apologies that not everybody can get into the Town Hall tonight.

FOSTER: And if you haven't heard of Jeremy Corbyn before, well neither had many people in Britain before this summer.

Now this bearded 66 year old packs out every venue he speaks at.

CORBYN: People have had enough of the politics of abuse and the politics of control. This is about the politics of democracy.

FOSTER: And he seems to have gained a big following amongst milleninals.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: A lot of young people have become disengaged with politics and I think he's someone that young people can relate to.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It's not the politics of envy, it's not the politics of fear, it's the politics of hope.

FOSTER: In the U.S., Donald Trump's plain speaking style also has popular appeal.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The main reason why I support Trump is because he is not politically correct I'd say.

UNIDENTIIFED FEMALE: He's loud, he's (inaudible) and I want to hear somebody that's a little (inaudible) to say yes.

FOSTER: Observers say both Trump and Corbyn are tapping into the same emotions.

PHILIP STEPHENS, CHIEF POLITICAL COMMENTATOR, FINANCIAL TIMES: I think what's given these parties and these individuals moment is the austerity

that followed the 2007/2008 financial crash. And the belief that's flown - that's flowed from that that globalization, international capitalism is

basically there for the rich, for the one percent.

JANET DALEY, COLUMNIST, SUNDAY TELEGRAPH: The governing class has become a professional club and there is a tendency to think maybe this is some sort

of conspiracy against the people.

FOSTER: So could these two outsiders go all the way? Will we ever see President Trump welcoming Prime Minister Corbyn to the White House?

STEPHENS: I think the idea of Corbyn as Prime Minister of Britain is preposterous. I also think, perhaps I'll be proved wrong, the idea of

Donald Trump as President of the United States is preposterous. But they can damage, deeply damage the existing establishment parties.

FOSTER: However far they get in their campaigns, Donald Trump, Jeremy Corbyn, and others like them are putting a passion and a polarization back

into politics.

Max Foster, CNN, London.

GORANI: And next Wednesday watch the Republican Presidential Candidates face off in back to back debates. Donald Trump will be on stage along with

many other Republican candidates, and you can see them all here on CNN, starting September 16th at 11pm in London, only on CNN.


GORANI: It'll be an overnight affair if you're in Europe but I think it might be worth it. Still to come this hour, my full interview with Italy's

Foreign Minister.


GORANI: He reacts to this shocking video we saw out of Hungary today. And he tells me that the very civilization of Europe could be at stake. We'll

be right back.



[15:30:43] GORANI: Returning now to our breaking news story, the collapse of a crane at Mecca's largest mosque.


GORANI: A Saudi civil defense official is now blaming heavy wind and rain for the accident which killed at least 87 people and injured 184 others.

Hundreds of thousands of people are arriving in Mecca for the annual Hajj pilgrimage which starts in 10 days.


GORANI: A video that has emerged in Hungary is raising concerns about the treatment of refugees.


GORANI: It shows dozens of people at a registration center scrambling for food that was tossed to them by police wearing hygiene masks. A government

spokesman says police were trying to prevent a riot though a witness spoke to me earlier and denied that.


GORANI: In Japan rescuers are using boats and helicopters to reach hundreds of stranded residents following some deadly flooding.


GORANI: A lingering rainy season combined with a tropical storm inundated parts of the country, at least three people are dead and two dozen remain



GORANI: Hundreds of thousands of people have marched through Barcelona today calling for Catalonia to break away from Spain.


GORANI: It comes just a few weeks ahead of some regional elections which is being portrayed by local authorities as a proxy vote from - on Spain.


GORANI: Some refugees are arming themselves with technology before they set off for European shores.


GORANI: You see how close the Greek islands are to the Turkish coast. The trip on the map may seem short but it is certainly dangerous. Tech savvy

people are using Smartphones to mitigate the risk. Ivan Watson shows us how.

IVAN WATSON, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Setting out to sea motoring out from the Turkish coast on what could be a relaxing cruise except we're

following the trail of tens of thousands of migrants and refugees trying to reach Europe.

Here's what's crazy about the economics of this wave of human migration. It cost us 600 euros to charter this private sailboat to carry our entire

CNN team from Turkey to Greece. Smugglers are charging Syrian refugees exactly double that per person, 1200 euros to board overcrowded rubber

dinghies to take them to that Greek island.

This is what the migrant voyage to Greece looks like. It isn't just more expensive, it's also dangerous. We find floating in the Aegean sea a lone

life jacket, the unofficial uniform of migrants headed to Greece.

Below crumbling fortifications that once guarded the Greek island of Lesbos, newly arrived migrants wash clothes on the beach and pitch tents in

the park.

The Greek authorities are processing migrants as fast as they can starting with refugees from Syria. This is where we find seven young Syrians who

have just arrived on a raft from Turkey. When their boat ran into trouble 19 year old (Kenan) says they were ready with their cell phones.

KENAN ALBENI, SYRIAN REFUGEE: We just call the police - the police in the sea so they come and they --

WATSON: -- which police? The Greek Police?

ALBENI: Yes, the Greek Police.

WATSON: How do you call them?

ALBENI: We have all the numbers.


ALBENI: Yes. We have GPS on our cellphone. We sent them (inaudible) and they come to save us.

WATSON: The police came to save you?


WATSON: Kenan shows me a Facebook page full of advice for Syrians on the migrant trail to Europe.

And what is this?

ALBENI: This thinks you should buy things like you know we go to other countries we (inaudible) so we need to get us in.

WATSON: So all the instructions.

ALBENI: Yes, everything. Everything you need.

WATSON: Some of the refugees are so organized they've taken to putting out distress calls at sea on Facebook with GPS coordinates to help guide the

Greek Coastguard.

ALESSANDRA MORELLI, UNHCR: Facebook indeed is playing an incredible role.

WATSON: The United Nations, Alessandra Morelli a veteran aid worker says she's never seen such text savvy coordination among refugees before.

MORELLI: When they arrive they know exactly where to go, who they have to talk to, they know what to buy.

WATSON: United Nations says there are around 50 boats a day landing here on Lesbos, that's from one to 3,000 refugees and migrants daily using this

place as an unofficial gateway to Europe, an island with beaches now littered with lifejackets.

Ivan Watson, CNN, Lesbos, Greece.


GORANI: The number of migrants and refugees crossing the sea has jumped dramatically.


GORANI: The International Organization for Migration says more than 430,000 have crossed this year. That is double the number that made the

journey all of last year. And tens of thousands more than an IOM estimate earlier this week.

You can see here the main roots used in the three countries where migrants most often land.


GORANI: The IOM says there have been more than 120,000 arrivals in Italy this year and earlier I spoke with the Italian Foreign Minister, Paolo

Gentiloni about this incredible human migration.

I started by asking him for Italy's position on the European Commission's proposal to impose refugee quotas. Listen.


GENTILONI: Yes I don't think that it's the only and final solution but it is a good step in the right direction because if we don't share the burden

within the different European member states, I think it would be extremely difficult to manage the crisis we are facing. So Italy supports this step

proposed by the European Commission.

GORANI: And how do you enforce it though if it indeed is adopted when you have countries like Denmark, like Hungary, indeed like the United Kingdom,

that say they will not sign up to such a system.

GENTILONI: We have some countries that have a normal mechanism of opting out of these kind of decisions, for example United Kingdom or Denmark. But

we need to convince the rest of the countries and I am specifically worried about Hungary and other countries to accept the idea of burden sharing.

GORANI: Would you support the idea of sanctions, of fines, of that type of action against countries that will not sign up to a mandatory quota system?

GENTILONI: You can't have the good aspects of the European Union when funding is there when public aid is there and refuse to burden - to share

the burden of migration. So, I - it's not now the moment talking of fines but if there is not an agreement we have to find a way to impose this

solution to all member countries.

GORANI: Were you able to see the video that's been everywhere today of that detention center at the Hungary/Serbia border of police throwing food

at some of the migrants and refugees? And if so, what was your reaction to it?

GENTILONI: I think it's one of the several unfortunately devastating videos and photos that we have seen in these days. So we have to be

convinced of a simple thing. Europe is one of the richest parts of the world, we are 700,000 million person, we are capable to manage migration

without such messages that are devastating for our civilization. We can manage it if we deal with it at a European and not only national level.

GORANI: In terms of historically speaking, how significant is this moment do you think for Europe? This particular crisis?

GENTILONI: Well perhaps it's one of the more difficult moments that we had. We are risking something strategic for the European Union that is the

liberty of movement of circulation or the Schengen area for the Schengen member states. But at the same time as it happened in other moments in our

history in front of a very difficult situation Europe could find a gain if civilization is forced. And I think that what happened in the last days in

Germany and in Austria and we are very proud it happened since many months in Italy. With more awareness of the problem it's a good sign that Europe

can face this difficult moment.

[15:40:06] GORANI: What message would you have for Hungary then in that case?


GORANI: You singled out Germany and Austria. If you had a message for Hungary, what would that message be?


GENTILONI: One that building walls and fences doesn't work as we all say with these days. And second is that Europe was for Hungarians a great

conquest, and a conquest of liberty and of also an economical conquest and you can't put this conquest at stake.

GORANI: What do you mean by that?

GENTILONI: I mean that everybody is called to make a part of the job that we have to make in common. You can't refuse to do this and if you refuse

some common rules, you put at risk the fact that European Union continues to work as a union.

Jean-Claude Juncker began his speech last Tuesday saying the state of the Union is not good. But on migration we risk this union and we can also

find a way to give to this union more force. It's in our hands.


GORANI: All right, the Foreign Minister of Italy, Paolo Gentiloni. And don't forget you can get all the latest news, interviews, a portion of this

interview will be on this Facebook page; So please visit the page and tell us what you


When the Good Friday Agreement in Northern Ireland was signed in 1988 it was held up as a signature example of conflict resolution. But 17 years

later the power sharing agreement is teetering on the brink. There are allegations that the provisional IRA was involved in a murder this month

has caused unionist politicians to resign their posts.

Both British and Irish Prime Ministers are urging calm. Phil Black has more.


PHIL BLACK, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: The name for this violent period almost sounds like a bitter understatement. The troubles, decades

of brutality, more than 3,000 people killed. This was one of its darkest days. Bloody Sunday, January 1972. British soldiers fired on a crowd in

Derry killing 13 people.

The troubles were really a long war fought over identity and over territory.

On one side the Republicans overwhelmingly Catholic who wanted Northern Ireland to join The Republic of Ireland. Their enemies, the loyalists.

Mostly Protestant who believed Northern Ireland should remain part of the United Kingdom.

Paramilitary groups on both sides pursued their goals with violence and intimidation but the Irish Republican Army, the IRA stood out for its

bombing campaign targeting civilians and the British government.

They tried to get then Prime Minister, Margaret Thatcher bombing a Brighton hotel in 1984. They also missed her successor John Major after firing

mortar rounds at Downing Street in 1991.

Throughout all this there were attempts by some British and Irish governments to find a solution but they went nowhere. Until the mid-90s

when both sides began to take the view that military victory was impossible.

U.S. President Bill Clinton's personal involvement gave momentum to difficult talks that ended in 1998 with the historic Good Friday agreement.

This deal would see Republicans and Loyalists renounce violence and govern together.

TONY BLAIR, FORMER BRITIAN PRIME MINISTER: This may be the day when finally after all the forced dawns and dashed hopes these replaced war.

BLACK: In the year since Northern Ireland has seen reasons for optimism, much reduced violence, former enemies governing and laughing together.

Republicans and royalty extending hands. But decades of distress haven't been wiped away altogether.

The power sharing arrangement has frequently lurched into crisis. The IRA"s reluctance to give up its weapons caused the suspension of self-

government for several years. Now it is allegations the IRA still exist which could bring it all down once more.

Northern Ireland police have suggested members of the IRA might have been involved in a murder last month. The police haven't provided any evidence

and Republicans long considered the IRA's political allies say it isn't true. But unionist politicians insist it is now impossible for both sides

to govern together.

[15:45:00] PETER ROBINSON, DEMOCRATIC UNION PARTY LEADER. They continued existence on the IRA structures, and the arrests that followed has pushed

evolution to the brink.

BLACK: This could prove to be Northern Ireland's most serious political crisis since the peace deal. But it's also being reigned in by one

powerful factor, few people want things to go back to the way they were.

Phil Black, CNN, London.


GORANI: Still ahead;

The American Vice President, Joe Biden, gets emotional with Stephen Colbert on the late show. The moving tribute to his son Beau. And also whether he

is considering a run for the White House.



GORANI: Let's bring you up to speed on our breaking new story out of Mecca, Saudi Arabia.


GORANI: A crane has collapsed in the city's largest mosque, the Grand Holy Mosque. It's killed at least 87 people and injured 187. This is amateur

video of the moment the claim collapsed.

You're going to hear it actually the screams of panic and chaos. Here you have the aftermath.

The Saudi civil defense official on Twitter is blaming heavy winds. The city is crowded with hundreds of thousands of pilgrims preparing for the

Hajj. The pilgrimage begins in 10 days.


GORANI: To the United States now and we'll have a lot more on this breaking news story as soon as details emerge.

And new poll numbers are out in the race for the Democratic nomination for President.


GORANI: The CNN ORC survey finds Hilary Clinton's lead is actually shrinking in the Democratic field. She's got 37 percent support but that's

down 10 points since August. Bernie Sanders has 27 percent and Joe Biden is not even a candidate and he's got 20 percent support.


GORANI: Vice President Biden may be climbing in the polls but as I mentioned he is not officially declared and judging by what he said on the

late show to host, Stephen Colbert, well he's having a very tough time with the decision on whether or not to go ahead. Check it out.


JOE BIDEN, U.S. VICE PRESIDENT: I don't think any man or woman should run for President unless number one they know exactly why they would want to be

President. And two they can look at folks out there and say I promise you you have my whole heart, my whole soul, my energy and my passion to do

this. And I'd be lying if I said that I knew I was there.


GORANI: Well our senior media correspondent, Brian Stelter, joins me now life from our New York bureau with more on Biden's potential bid.

First of all it's quite rare to see career politicians, this is a man who has been a politician for decades, so unfiltered. I mean he was so

emotionally, you could tell he was holding back tears, in fact so was Stephen Colbert. I mean this is really - yes and so it's kind of adding to

this persona, this image that he's an honest guy who says what he thinks.


[15:50:07] BRIAN STELTER, CNN SENIOR MEDIA CORRESPONDENT: Yes he was holding back tears but holding back pretty much nothing else. Carrying

such emotional details about what this process has been like for him, this grieving process.


STELTER: It's something you know you almost never see from any public figure never mind a sitting Vice-President. I really recommend people

watch the whole interview on YouTube, it's such a poignant interview.

Of course now the political talking heads are wondering does this mean he's less likely to run for President, or somehow more likely to run? Is he

trying to share all of himself because as you pointed out it portrays him and shows him to be an unfiltered, honest, available, you know politician

at a time when what do we see in the polls? We see the most unpredictable, spontaneous, publically available person of all Donald Trump doing so well.

So that's the chatter now in political circles today. Is this a sign that Biden is considering running and getting more serious or is he being

genuine when he says I'm not sure I have the heart for it right now. I'm not sure I have the stamina right now.

I'm sure that chatter is going to continue through the weekend because he still has a window of time, several more weeks at least before he has to

make a final decision. And in the meantime he does have aids and strategists around him that are working on a possible campaign.


GORANI: All right, apologies I thought I was off air there. But when you - let's bring up those poll numbers again.


GORANI: Because Hilary Clinton has 37 percent support but crucially that's 10 percent points lower than just last month. And one has to wonder that

Joe Biden, and his advisors and others who might want him to run are seeing those poll numbers recede.

STELTER: Absolutely and all these --

GORANI: -- I just wonder what the - what the strategy is within the party here.

STELTER: As Clinton runs into more and more problems, not just on the campaign trail but really when it comes to controversies and scandals like

her private email situation, it does give Biden's aids and Biden's allies more confidence. It also gives Bernie Sanders' allies and aids more



STELTER: We see Sanders in a surge situation right now in Iowa and Hampshire. He said to (Wolf Blitzer) yesterday he admits he's stunned by

how well he's doing in the polls. By the way he's on Colbert next week and then Clinton's on Colbert in two weeks.

So we're going to continue to see these candidates using Colbert at other late night shows in order to test the waters to get their messages out.

GORANI: And it's incredible how important that show is becoming and what, how long has it been on the air?

STELTER: Three days - three days.

GORANI: Three days, and it's unbelievable. There you have it. Colbert people want to be on his show, they know they get attention and certainly

this one was a very emotional interview.

STELTER: It was.

GORANI: Brian Stelter, thanks very much. We'll be right back.


GORANI: Local elections are being held across Russia this weekend where pro Kremlin parties are set to dominate. In fact there is only one anti

Putin candidate in the entire country who's allowed to run. He is in the small city of Kostroma, a few hundred KM's north of Moscow, that's where we

find, Matthew Chance.


MATTHEW CHANCE, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: You won't see him on Russian state television, nor on many of the election posters, that festoon

Kostroma. But Ilya Yashin is determined to deliver his anti-Kremlin, anti- corruption message even to the handful of pensioners who turn up to listen.

[15:55:17] ILYA YASHIN: (As translated) I understand we won't be able to change anything with this election, we won't be able to change the

government and the government doesn't want to do anything. But that's why you need the opposition to hold the government to account and to make

officials work.

CHANCE: Well very little captures the plight of Russia's beleaguered opposition than this right here, a lone candidate with a strong anti-

government message trying to convince a skeptical Russian public of his cause. And the problems here in Kostroma are repeated at the Russian

opposition across the country.

It's been a hard campaign and a frustrated Yashin accuses us of scaring off his voters. People aren't used to these big cameras in their faces in the

provinces he snaps.

Sensitivities are real, opposition campaigners here say they've been physically attacked and accused of being secretly funded by Russia's so

called enemies in the West.

YASHIN: (As translated): People are scared of even talking to me because there's propaganda, police harassment, administrative pressure. I'm cut

off from appearing on T.V., I'm cut off from the radio. So my goal is to talk face to face with as many voters as possible and to shake as many

hands as possible.

CHANCE: For some the anti-Kremlin stance is being well received. There are Russians willing to listen to this opposition message. But with pro-

Kremlin parties fielding tens of thousands of candidates across Russia to this one from the main opposition, it is an absurdly uneven political


Matthew Chance, CNN, Kostroma, in Western Russia.


GORANI: Thanks for watching us this evening, I'm Hala Gorani. QUEST MEANS BUSINESS is next.