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Sanders Speaks at an Evangelical University; Same-Sex Couple Seeks Marriage License in Kentucky; Joyce Mitchell Breaks Her Silence. Aired 10:30-11a ET

Aired September 14, 2015 - 10:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[10:29:50] CAROL COSTELLO, CNN ANCHOR: Of course, Jake Tapper is moderating the debate. And he toured some of the historic artifacts on display, including a relic from the Cold War.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JAKE TAPPER, CNN HOST: This is real.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: A real piece of the Berlin Wall. Came down in 1991. Ronald Reagan was here in '94 when we received the piece.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COSTELLO: Remember, Wednesday night's debate can be seen only here on CNN. It starts at 6:00 p.m. Eastern.

All right. Let's talk about politics of another stripe as one Liberty University tweeter put it, this has to be a joke. Today Bernie Sanders, who is staunchly pro-choice, pro-gay rights and a self-described Democratic socialist, is the guest speaker at Liberty University. That's the school founded by Jerry Falwell.

It's a sold out show although it's unclear whether -- actually we cleared that up just a few minutes ago. Students are required to be at Bernie Sanders' speech. The last presidential candidate to speak at Liberty was Ted Cruz. You might remember, Cruz had to put up with a large group of students wearing Rand Paul T-shirts.

With me now to talk about that, CNN senior political reporter Manu Raju and CNN political commentator Sally Kohn. Welcome to both of you.

SALLY KOHN, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Thanks.

COSTELLO: OK. So Manu -- you were on the scene, set the stage.

MANU RAJU, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL REPORTER: You know, we're looking at about 10,300 students here. They are expected to attend. Usually these convocations are sold out. This one is supposed to be not much different. The one difference, though, is that yes, you're seeing a progressive liberal Democratic candidate come and address this crowd.

You have really not seen Democrats come to these weekly convocations, which is, of course, the world's largest gathering of Christian students. It happens here weekly.

Last time a Democratic candidate came was Mark Warner, a senator from Virginia during his re-election campaign last year. Ted Kennedy back in 1983 came. What Bernie Sanders is trying to do is showcase that he is the candidate that can cut across ideological lines. Not by talking about social issues.

He's going to say, look, we disagree about abortion. We disagree on gay rights. But he's going to say, these economic issues, about student loan debt, about income inequality, about the wealth gap -- those are things that both Republicans and Democrats can agree upon.

So you'll hear him try to push those pop list messages with younger votes who, of course, he's been doing well with in the polls so far.

COSTELLO: All right. So Bernie Sanders will soon start to speak before that crowd of students and keep in mind they're used to other kinds of speakers.

I want to put up a list, because the speakers who were scheduled for the future in just a few days or a few weeks are Korie and Sadie Robertson, the "Duck Dynasty People", Daryl Strawberry will speak, and also Scott Walker, and Ben Carson will speak to the students at Liberty University. So, Sally, why is Bernie Sanders appearing here?

KOHN: Well, let me clear something up first. His politics actually aren't as different from the base of folks and the students at Liberty University as is being characterized, including by the senator's campaign. 64 percent of millennial evangelicals, 64 percent, support marriage equality. So, I think Sanders' appearance today reflects a broader reality that progressive politics are, in fact, broadly popular with a wide majority of Americans, including issues like climate change and income inequality and doing something to help the poor --

COSTELLO: I'm not so sure the students will be into climate change per se or --

KOHN: But again polls show that millennial evangelicals, millennial voters who consider themselves Christian conservatives, are also far more concerned about the planet and about income inequality than their parents' generation.

COSTELLO: These students in particular because they're Christian students, they are concerned about social justice. They do care about the wage gap. But I guess the question is, you know, we all have different ideas about how to solve that problem, right?

So, Bernie Sanders in speaking here, will he convince them that he has the right method to solving that problem?

KOHN: Well, look, I don't know. I think it's a clever move on Sanders' part. It certainly gets some good attention. And again, I think sort of broadly speaking, it shows that while you have Republicans who seem to be moving further and further, competing in their primary to move further and further away from the majority voters, you have Bernie Sanders showing that progressive politics are in fact more broadly supported than we tend to show.

But, you know, look, 47 percent of Americans said they would vote for a socialist if they were the most qualified candidate.

COSTELLO: That's amazing.

KOHN: So add that from 64 -- I don't know.

COSTELLO: Stick with me see Sally because I want to take our viewers back out to Kentucky because the same sex couple has shown up to go in and get their marriage license. And you know, Kim Davis returned to work -- that Kentucky clerk who's refusing to sign marriage licenses.

Even today after she spent six days in jail -- Martin take it away.

MARTIN SAVIDGE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hey -- Carol. I'm with Shannon and Carmen Wampler-Collins (ph). Welcome to you both. Congratulations in advance. You have any idea of what you're up against here.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Well, we were encouraged today to hear that Kim Davis wasn't going to interfere. So we're hoping that we'll be able to get a license then you know that will go smoothly. You know, our best hope. We were hoping We were just -- there wouldn't be a confrontation.

[10:35:02] SAVIDGE: You are clearly here to challenge all of it -- correct.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We're here to make Morehead a better place for the teams growing up here. That, you know, for a variety of issues, you can't be out or have family that are not supporting them. We want to make it safe for them.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We're here to get a license. I grew up here. And, you know, never in my life expected that I would be able to do this here in my hometown where I grew up with my family.

SAVIDGE: It's a beautiful day for many reasons.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It is. It is.

SAVIDGE: Are you nervous? I mean beyond just the nervousness of anyone on their wedding day or getting ready for it?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Well, you know, it's kind of crazy that this has to happen. And we hope that in the future it won't. I mean that's part of the reason that we're here, is because, you know, we understand personally how hard it is to live in a community like this and to be different, to be gay, and we want to be the face of acceptance. You know, to say you are OK. We are from here. We're not just outsiders that, you know, people in these communities are gay and lesbian and have a right to, you know, feel at home where they're from.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: If I might also say that we want to put a face on Kentucky, a positive spin.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: There are some wonderful progressive people here, loving people, good people. And that's not what the rest of the country is seeing right now.

SAVIDGE: What do you think of Kim Davis?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You know, I feel it's really unfortunate that she's taken things to this extreme. I appreciate that she has her beliefs and she's making a stand, but to stand in the way of the people she serves, exercising their rights is just wrong. I think it's wrong.

SAVIDGE: you expect to walk out with a marriage license?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I do, yes.

That's why we're here.

SAVIDGE: I do. Keep it coming. Good phrase. Good luck.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Thank you.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Thank you.

SAVIDGE: Thank you very much for joining us -- Carol, we're going to watch this process because this is going to be the challenge of the day, to see if they can walk inside, and given these sort of ground rules that the county clerk Davis is laid out here. Kim Davis has laid out here, she's not directly going to interfere. What's going to happen once they enter inside, we don't know.

COSTELLO: I know and they're giving other media interviews, so we'll have them on tape as they make their way through those protesters into that state office building. Thank you so much, Martin Savidge reporting live from Kentucky.

Still to come in the NEWSROOM" tens of thousands of refugees are crossing through Europe right now. They're looking for a home. Now what some countries with some countries due to restrict their access.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[10:42:06] COSTELLO: All right I have some breaking news to share with you. Authorities in Kentucky say the suspect accused of killing a Kentucky cop overnight -- I'm sorry. I'm sorry. Can we -- can we back out of this for just one second?

We have some breaking news. The suspect accused of killing a Kentucky police officer is now dead. Police shot him during the arrest. I just wanted to pass that along before I brought you to Morehead, Kentucky, now, to the courthouse where Kim Davis has returned as a clerk. So, let's go back to Kentucky.

There we go. The same-sex couple is in the courtroom trying to get a marriage license.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Can you show us the license in a minute.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Outside first.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What's your middle name?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It's your sin that brought you here. More sinners. More sinners. Because he loves you he's calling you to his home today. Tells us in the scripture. What you long for. You cannot satisfy yourself. Only God can satisfy.

(CROSSTALK)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Your mother's full maiden name?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Anita Joyce Butler.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You're putting on a show. This is all drama.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Your mother's maiden name?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: For the whole nation --

Destroys those who participate in homosexual and destroys nations that approve of that. So, young ladies today --

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Birth date?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Today God is calling you to himself. There is no pit so deep that Jesus isn't deeper still. He can lift you up out of this pit.

(INAUDIBLE)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It is not marriage. That certificate you're giving is not a valid marriage certificate. It is not --

[10:45:01] COSTELLO: All right. You're looking -- this is taking place in Morehead, Kentucky. And as you can see Carmen Wampler (Ph) and Shannon Wampler. They're both named Wampler-Collins because they took each other's name even though they couldn't legally get married in the state of Kentucky until, of course, the Supreme Court made that historic ruling.

But they're in the very place that Kim Davis serves as the chief clerk and you can see Kim Davis is nowhere around. One of her deputy clerks is taking the information from the same-sex couple. But protesters are also inside the room saying that marriage is between a man and a woman.

We'll keep you posted as to what happens next. I'll be right back. (COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[10:50:07] COSTELLO: Former prison worker, Joyce Mitchell, says she's not the monster everyone thinks she is. Mitchell who has confessed to aiding killers break out of prison this summer broke her silence to NBC News, describing from behind bars how because of depression and troubles at home she got caught up in a complicated web with two convicted killers who she eventually helped to escape. She also talked about how she sneaked in tools for the killers.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOYCE MITCHELL, FORMER PRISON WORKER: I give them the star bit, four full size hack blades, I gave them a chisel and punched. That's all that I gave them.

MATT LAUER, NBC NEWS HOST: That's a lot.

MITCHELL: It is.

LAUER: So, you'd go in during the day. You'd see at least Mr. Matt in the tailor shop.

MITCHELL: Yes.

LAUER: And he would say to you, hey, we breached the wall of our cell. We got out of the wall. We're back in the crawl -- he would let you know this?

MITCHELL: Yes. He actually had told me at one point, in one spot, that they had found a tool box, and Mr. Sweat picked the lock and they found power tools in it.

LAUER: What was your reaction when you were hearing these stories? Wasn't it all so astonishing to you that they were getting out of their cells at night?

And they were going behind the walls of the prison?

MITCHELL: They were waiting until after, I think it's the 11:00 bed check, and then they would go.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COSTELLO: Patrick Johnson joins me now. He's the former warden at Chittaqwa (ph) County jail. Welcome -- thank you for being with me this morning.

PATRICK JOHNSON, FORMER WARDEN: You're welcome. Thank you.

COSTELLO: Just how she describes it, Joyce Mitchell, it's bizarre, isn't it?

JOHNSON: It really is. And nothing from the interview really surprised me this morning. I thought she tried to transfer a lot of her blame on being depressed and having problems with her husband and her relationship and that a lot of people who go through depression do similar type things and don't act rationally.

But the bottom line is, she's responsible for everything she did. She made those decisions and she should be held accountable for them.

COSTELLO: Well, on one hand she said she was flattered because, you're right, she was having problems with her husband and she thought her husband didn't have love her. So she was flirty with the prisoners. Then she used to bring them baked goods, like brownies and cookies, which is also kind of strange to me.

Do prison guards usually bring cookies and brownies to inmates.

JOHNSON: No, they don't. That's a red flag when they start asking for favors from staff, whether they're corrections officers or whether they're support staff. She should have reported that immediately to her supervisors. She said she didn't know who she could trust inside the prison. She's the one who wasn't being trustful.

She was the one bringing these products into the facility.

The other thing on one hand, she was flirting with them and flattered her and she obviously liked it at some point. And then of them said he was going to kill her husband and maybe harm her family. Then she became afraid for her family and that's why she agreed to deliver these tools to these president but that doesn't law make sense to me.

JOHNSON: It doesn't make sense. At that point you know, she was in pretty deep and enforcement officials and the (INAUDIBLE) felt that they could threaten her and get her to action. Like bring More Chores into these facilities but. At that point she should really contacted -- the law enforcement officially and our lives are being threatened here and in Danger. And CND whether she did this internally or with an outside agency like the sheriff's office or the state police, this would have been handled appropriately and it wouldn't have got to the point where it did.

COSTELLO: Patrick Johnson, thanks for your insight. I appreciate it. I'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[10:58:27] COSTELLO: Want to find the right college? The White House is here to help. CNN money chief business correspondent Christine Romans has all the details. Good morning.

CHRISTINE ROMANS, CNN MONEY CHIEF BUSINESS CORRESPONDENT: This is a new thing to from the Department of Education to help you to help you get more information when choosing college.

Affordability is the most important thing here -- Carol. The White House says reliable information about affordability just not really out there. They So have a tool on there and they called out some colleges they say have good affordability. Affordable colleges with good job prospects. Barnard college, James Madison. You can see on the least on here, they've also said where students graduate on time and pay off debt quickly, Harvey Mudd, Coleman University, Bismarck State College and affordable colleges for low-income students. You'll see a lot of state schools meet that criteria in Suny-Albany. You can go to collegescorecard.ed.gov and take a look at the different universities. Two most important things they can show you, how much a typical graduate makes ten years out and what the typical student loan monthly payment is of a graduate of that college.

Those are really important metrics when you're trying to choose whether a college is affordable for you.

COSTELLO: And I must say it's really easy to use.

ROMANS: Yes.

COSTELLO: All you do, you know, if you want -- if you're interested in the particular college, you type in the name and all of the information will come up, how much tuition you're going to pay. How much, you know, you write the Typical Student oath and how much their monthly payment. It's eye-opening in some cases, isn't it?

Romans: Right. and you to be doing that research. People need to be doing more research you make You make the big-ticket purchase, you need to know everything.

COSTELLO: Christine Romans many thanks as always.

ROMANS: You're welcome.

DITTS: Thank you so much for joining me today. I'm Carol Costello. "AT THIS HOUR" with Berman and Bolduan starts now.