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Legal View with Ashleigh Banfield

Trump, Carson Dominates as Debate Nears; Interview with Rep. Ileana Ros-Lehtinen; Active Shooting Incident on Delta State University Campus; Kim Davis Back to Work. Aired 12-12:30p ET

Aired September 14, 2015 - 12:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[12:00:02] ANNOUNCER: This is CNN breaking news.

ASHLEIGH BANFIELD, CNN ANCHOR: Hi, everybody, I'm Ashleigh Banfield, welcome to LEGAL VIEW. And we're going to begin this hour with breaking news on the GOP race for president. In the first presidential primary state New Hampshire. Just moments ago, brand new poll, Monmouth University releasing numbers that showed Donald Trump a head-and-shoulders favorite in the New Hampshire primary, followed by Ben Carson whose support has more than tripled since July.

Look at the comparatives now and July. Astounding. Ohio governor, John Kasich, also climbing into third place ahead of Jeb Bush who now is tied for fifth, again in New Hampshire.

Let's go nationwide. A brand new "Washington Post"-ABC poll showing Donald Trump favored by a third of registered Republican voters. That is a brand new high.

Dr. Carson, the other political outsider in this race, has a firm hold on second place. And look at the jump, folks. Up again, he is 14 points up since July. Jeb Bush on the other hand dropping 12 points. Check the -- that's just remarkable, jumping from 12 percent in July and he's now 8 percent, dropping 4 points from July.

And then there's everybody else. All those other folks, some of them, going to be able to say a few things at the presidential library on Wednesday. The stakes just changed for the CNN Republican debate.

Let's say debates because there are two of them on Wednesday at the Ronald Reagan Presidential Library in Simi Valley, California. 15 candidates are going to share the stage but in two separate events, beginning at 6:00 p.m. Eastern Time.

And my CNN colleague Athena Jones joins me now live with a preview.

We were just looking at a picture of them getting everything arranged. The physical, the technical, and the layout of the space behind you, Athena. There's so much going on behind the scenes with these candidates that we cannot see. Shake it out for me, especially with these brand new numbers.

ATHENA JONES, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hi, Ashleigh. Well, these new polls show what we've been seeing, this trend over the course of much of the summer, showing the strength of these outsider candidates namely Donald Trump and Ben Carson. You see that poll you just mentioned there has Donald Trump and Carson, second place in New Hampshire. Of course Trump is leading in Iowa as well with Ben Carson close behind. And then we have this new national poll that also shows Trump with that 33 percent of the vote, that is highest number he's posted yet. Ben Carson just 13 points behind. And in the national poll, Jeb Bush is in third place, but he is still in single digits. He's still 25 points behind the leader, so it shows that these outsider candidates are the ones to beat.

And, you know, Ashleigh, this is a huge opportunity for all of these candidates, especially the ones who haven't gotten much mention in the news media, unless they are bashing Donald Trump or having their name mentioned by Donald Trump. It's a chance for them to appear in front of a large television audience. 24 million people watched the last debate, there will be millions watching the debate on Wednesday night, so it's a really big deal.

And you can see here behind me where we are. This is a very unique setup that CNN has here. This is Ronald Reagan's Air Force One. CNN has built a stage right next to it, right next to it, so the candidates will have this plane as their backdrop. Over here on the other side, you can see the stage, the podium set up, and you may not be able to tell from my vantage point, but there aren't that many chairs.

There was about 500 people who will be in attendance at Wednesday's debate. That is a big difference from the FOX debate, that first FOX debate which was held in an arena, so there was thousands of people. This is going to be no more than 500, so a much more intimate setting that could certainly affect how the candidates come across and how they attack or jostle with each other -- Ashleigh.

BANFIELD: There's nothing like Air Force One as your backdrop. I was going to say. That is just awesome. Thank you, Athena, what a great assignment. Appreciate it.

I'm joined now in New York, live here, a couple of my favorite CNN commentators. Tara Setmayer is a former communications director for GOP Congress Dana Rohrabacher, and a columnist for the Blaze.com. And Sally Kohn is a lawyer, a progressive activist and a columnist for the "Daily Beast.

Ladies, thank you for being with me. And may I say, I love your faces.

SALLY KOHN, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Love yours -- love your face.

TARA SETMAYER, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Thank you, gorgeous.

BANFIELD: I put that out of the way. So Athena was great, showing us Air Force One. And the optics and the fabulous setting. But in the end you're going to be looking at all those faces, right? And Jeb Bush is now going to be flanked instead of by Scott Walker on one side, he's going to have Ben Carson. So I want you just to weigh in.

Tara, I'll start with you, on the optics of it being Ben Carson right next to him this time, instead of way over on the left hand side like last time.

SETMAYER: Well, at least Ben Carson won't be able to complain this time that he's not getting enough time or that hey, I'm still here, which is one of the gestures he made during the last debate, because he really didn't talk much, but it still doesn't change the fact that there's 11 candidates on the stage. And we only have a certain amount of time. So the fact that Ben Carson and Donald Trump are leading so far ahead is just fascinating to me but it shows you the people are just -- they're attracted to the fact that Ben Carson --

[12:05:12] KOHN: Outsiders.

SETMAYER: Right. They're outsiders. But Ben Carson and Donald Trump are polar opposites in their approach. So it seems to me that, yes, there's outsiders, and people are craving that because they're just sick and tired of the same, blah, blah, blah from politicians in Washington, but then yet it's personality also that's playing a factor into this because of how different Ben Carson and Trump are. I think that's a fascinating dynamic.

BANFIELD: Sally's take. First of all, love your face again.

(CROSSTALK)

BANFIELD: Especially the one you're making right now. But this live in the face, boy, this is the scene, the idea that he is an entertainer, which now Carly Fiorina is saying, which a couple of other -- Miss America candidate was saying. Everybody is saying he's only doing well because he's an entertainer. The fact -- the idea that Ben Carson is doing well flies in the face of that argument.

KOHN: Well, let's be fair. I mean, Trump is also doing well because the media is giving him so much play and elections are based on a lot of things but a lot of it in polls, certainly based on name recognition. And the media is loving everything Trump is doing and the more play he gets somehow that seems to help him, which I don't understand. I think you say it's fascinating, I think it's deeply, deeply disturbing that he is going up in the polls.

BANFIELD: I'm going to show again --

KOHN: Come on, people.

BANFIELD: I'm going to show you, the media, without question, I think is giving a lot of focus to this Trump juggernaut.

KOHN: No kidding.

BANFIELD: But so are the other candidates.

KOHN: Yes.

BANFIELD: The other candidates are feeding --

KOHN: So they can get coverage. BANFIELD: Maybe feeding each other. The one that I thought was the

most interesting, this whole battle that began Wednesday night, and really in earnest started Thursday which I say because the polling that we are seeing right now only reflects one day of that. The polling that we're seeing only reflects one day of this whole look at that face, do you want to see that face as your president, which offended a lot of people, but the polling may not show it yet, because it only happened at the end of the polling.

So I want to show you what at least Carly Fiorina is doing, not the media. Carly Fiorina is doing to battle, take on Donald Trump head on for the face comment. Take a peek.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CARLY FIORINA (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Ladies, look at this face.

(APPLAUSE)

And look at all of your faces. The face of leadership. The face of leadership in our party, the party of women's suffrage. The face of leadership in your communities.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BANFIELD: OK. Tara, is this going to be the big memorable issue of this coming debate? Is it going to be the Megyn Kelly moment that just won't go away?

SETMAYER: It might be, I'd like to say that that is a fantastic ad. The Fiorina campaign took something that was a juvenile attack by Donald Trump which he's known for, making fun of Carly Fiorina's appearance, and they turned it around and turned it into something very empowering. And I say good for them on that. And most women I think would be able to relate to it.

You know, we're always judged by our appearance, and we're sick and tired of men in positions of power, you know, making comments about how we look, how we dress, and so I think she did an excellent job and handled that with class. Unlike what Donald Trump has done which has been classless this entire time.

On Wednesday, I think you're going to see -- a lot of people are going to tune in because they want to see how Carly Fiorina handles it. Who's going to be the one that puts Trump in his place. If it's going to be anyone, I think it's going to be Carly Fiorina. Now I don't necessarily think that it does us any good when we have debates that are just kind of mudslinging, I mean, I'd like to hear some policies.

(CROSSTALK)

KOHN: The important issues.

SETMAYER: Hey, you know, don't talk about people's faces.

KOHN: I'll be honest though -- BANFIELD: The chairman of the Republican National Committee said to

tread lightly. Even he is nervous.

KOHN: He's got to be freaking out right now. His party's future is going down in the toilet. Look, do I hope this will hurt Trump, yes, but, you know, when he made some very sexist remarks in the first and that Megyn Kelly called him on, and his comeback to Megyn Kelly was that it didn't hurt him either.

BANFIELD: No.

KOHN: So the man seems to be made of Teflon. I think the only thing that's going to change is if, like, I don't know, one of the Republican establishment candidates gets so freaked out during the debate that they have aneurysm on stage, and Ben Carson with a Bic pen and a lapel mike performs surgery live during the debate. Then maybe, then maybe.

(CROSSTALK)

KOHN: Then maybe the ratings will suffer, but what the heck.

SETMAYER: You know what it is? I found something interesting that Newt Gingrich said and he said that it's the simplicity of Donald Trump's message. The fact that he's just saying, hey, look, I'm a winner, and we want to win. America has been losing, we have a bunch of losers, and you know what people say, you know what, yes, let's win. But at some point, that has to -- you have to get beyond the simplistic platitude that Donald Trump is offering, because this is not how you govern.

(CROSSTALK)

KOHN: This is great for a reality show, but --

BANFIELD: I hate when that's going on.

KOHN: There's another word for simplicity, America, it's dumb.

BANFIELD: OK. No, I got to wrap it there but there's so much more, obviously, to talk about at least until Wednesday. Would you come back?

SETMAYER: Of course.

BANFIELD: Thank you very, Sally, Tara.

And be sure to tune in Wednesday night to CNN's Republican debate. The main event with these faces, the top 11 candidates, begins at 8:00 Eastern Time, and before that, got the undercard, too. Pataki, Santorum, Jindal and Graham.

[12:10:11] I'm using my best boxing voice here. They're going to face off for the first round beginning at 6:00 Eastern Time, so make sure you tune in for that. Also we have some breaking news that we want to bring your way right

away and it's coming out of Mississippi where we've now been given some reports that there's an active shooter, a situation anyway, on the campus of Delta State University. We're just gathering some more information for you. And we'll have as much as we can after this break.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

ANNOUNCER: This is CNN breaking news.

BANFIELD: And I want to bring you this breaking news that's coming into us from Cleveland, Mississippi. Cleveland, Mississippi. Apparently there is a situation at Delta State University, it's an active shooter apparently being reported there. Again, if you're looking at the map and it looks odd to you, Cleveland, Mississippi. This is a public university, apparently over 4,000 students, but there have been tweets going out from the Delta State site, two students saying that the campus is under lockdown.

They are asking everyone, and you can see right there, please stay inside and away from the windows. The campus remains under lockdown. They're saying more information will be distributed as they get it. But they did put out about 19 to 20 minutes ago, could be as much as 22, 23 minutes ago, that an active shooter has been spotted on campus near a place called the Job Hall. Please take immediate lockdown action.

Again, Delta State University in Cleveland, Mississippi, an active shooter spotted, everybody there under lockdown and being asked to stay away from the windows.

[12:15:06] I wish I had more information for you, but that is all that we're learning. We will keep our eye on this and we'll bring you every update as we can get it.

In the meantime, we're also keeping an eye on the changing story, and that is the polls that just keep coming in, with unique numbers, to say the least. In the latest nationwide poll in the GOP presidential horse race is yet another slap in the face for Jeb Bush. Since July, the former Florida governor and son and brother of two former presidents has lost one-third of his support as measured by ABC News and the "Washington Post."

Jeb Bush, the former governor, enjoying the support of my next guest, however, Republican U.S. Congressman Ileana Ros-Lehtinen. The congresswoman is the honorary chair of Jeb Bush's Miami-Dade campaign staff.

Thank you, Congresswoman, for taking the time to speak with me today.

REP. ILEANA ROS-LEHTINEN (R), FLORIDA: Thank you, Ashleigh.

BANFIELD: So this has got to be really, A, confounding for you, and B, frustrating for you, and I want to know what your strategies are, especially since you are a big wig in his campaign. And you're a big adviser in his campaign, and you're from Florida as is Jeb. What is it you're telling him about Wednesday and what to do on Wednesday?

ROS-LEHTINEN: It's not frustrating. I think Wednesday is going to be Jeb's opportunity to shine. We just had Jeb right here in our community, my congressional district, on Saturday, opening up his Miami campaign office.

I know Donald Trump accuses him of low energy. If Donald Trump could have just seen the Jeb Bush that we know, very energetic, fired up the crowd, and -- it's the exclamation point, he says it connotes excitement. Jeb Bush really is an exciting candidate because he's the rational choice, he's a proven leader. He did such a marvelous job as CEO of our state, creating jobs and --

BANFIELD: So --

ROS-LEHTINEN: And getting our economy on track.

(CROSSTALK)

BANFIELD: You're not taking the bait then?

ROS-LEHTINEN: He needs to make that connection.

BANFIELD: So let me just make it real clear here. As you go into Wednesday, you're not as a group advising Jeb Bush to pull it up, and kick it up a notch, and get tough and go outside the box and really be Jeb, exclamation point?

ROS-LEHTINEN: I hope not. I think that just entices Trump to further personally attack him. Donald Trump is incorrect when he says that Jeb Bush is low energy. What Jeb has a lot of is our ideas. Ideas that he wants to take from Florida to the national level, and I didn't know that this was a beauty contest or a contest to see who could be the most clever in insults.

Jeb is the rational choice, and people will see that there's nothing low energy about him. And you know, it's so wonderful that this debate of CNN is taking place at the Reagan Library in Simi Valley. Jeb opened up his shirt Saturday and what did he had underneath? Reagan-Bush T-shirt. He needs to make that connection that he is the conservative choice of -- for America's voters so that we can solve the problems of today and tomorrow. He's going not looking back. He is the candidate of today and the future. He needs to make that connection.

BANFIELD: So can I ask you something?

ROS-LEHTINEN: And I think he will.

BANFIELD: I think a lot of people thought that they could go after Trump in foreign policy because he's had a bad cycle in foreign policy, let's just day. But he's been boning up on this, he's been working on it, he's got people in his camp helping him out. Is that going to be a play for you? Do you still see him that he's vulnerable or are there other places where Jeb and the others will start really do some repeated punches? ROS-LEHTINEN: Well, look, every time you stump Donald Trump on a

policy question, he considers that a gotcha question, whether it's --

(CROSSTALK)

BANFIELD: Yes, but it can't be a gotcha question from the other candidates. That's why I asked you that. It can be a gotcha question for me.

ROS-LEHTINEN: I think Jeb --

BANFIELD: But it can't be a gotcha question from Jeb.

ROS-LEHTINEN: Well, I hope that -- Jeb has got the answers for all of those gotcha questions. We wanted to have enough debate time in the CNN debate on Wednesday night so he -- so that people can see how intelligent he is, how forward-thinking he is. He just needs that opportunity and I know that people like the sound bite and they like to go with what's sexy, but Jeb is the candidate of substantial issues, and he's got to have that opportunity. So I hope that he rises above the fray and let people know what he will do to make their future a brighter future.

He can connect with people on a personal level. He just hasn't been able to do it yet on the national stage. Maybe Wednesday is going to be fire for him, I hope so.

BANFIELD: Congresswoman Ileana Ros-Lehtinen, it's always good --

ROS-LEHTINEN: Jeb.

BANFIELD: And I like your face. I'll just add that, too. Thanks for being with us. Nice to see you.

ROS-LEHTINEN: Thank you. Thank you.

BANFIELD: Another chance to just make sure everybody knows the CNN Republican debate is Wednesday night, main event, top 11 candidates, beginning at 8:00 Eastern Time. Take a look. That's what it will look like effectively on those podium.

And before that is undercard, Pataki, Santorum, Jindal, and Graham. They're going to face off in the first round. That starts at 6:00 Eastern. Don't miss it because remember Carly Fiorina was in that last undercard debate, and boy, was that a barn burner. She's now on the main stage.

[12:20:00] Kentucky clerk, Kim Davis, back at work this morning. And still standing her ground when it comes to issuing same-sex marriage licenses. So much so she came out to announce that these two showed up to get a license. But did she stand in their way of this same-sex couples, asking for what they said is legally their right and the Supreme Court said so, too.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

ANNOUNCER: This is CNN breaking news.

BANFIELD: And if you're just joining us, our breaking news comes to us out of Mississippi, a place called Cleveland, Mississippi. Delta State University is located there, and it is under lockdown right now. Reports of an active shooter going out via tweet to the student body there, and an instruction to please seek shelter, stay in lockdown and stay away from windows. Stay inside and stay away from windows.

This is the tweet that went out. "Campus remains under lockdown, please stay inside and away from the windows." Apparently an active shooter spotted on campus near a place called Jobe Hall. We're going to continue to watch this story. For no other information, but obviously a concern for the over 4,000 students that are there on that campus.

On any other day, the clerk's office in a place like Rowan County, Kentucky, would be pretty quiet, not so today.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED PROTESTERS: Love has one. Love has one. Love has one.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BANFIELD: This all started after county clerk Kim Davis came back to work. That after spending five days behind bars for refusing to issue same-sex marriage licenses because of what she says were her religious convictions.

[12:25:05] She still is not going to issue the marriage licenses, she says, but the big takeaway this morning, she said she won't stand in the way of her deputies so long as the documents don't have her name or title on them.

Before she got back to business, though, she read that statement that you just saw. She was surrounded by reporters. I know you want to hear what she had to say, so listen in.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

KIM DAVIS, ROWAN COUNTY, KENTUCKY CLERK: I am here before you this morning with seemingly impossible choice that I do not wish on any of my fellow Americans, my conscience or my freedom. My conscience and my ability to serve the people that I love, obey God or a directive that forces me to disobey God even when there are reasonable accommodations available.

I have thought and prayed very hard about what to do. The decisions I have made in this case, and the decisions I will continue to make in this case are mine, and mine alone. I don't want to have this conflict. I don't want to be in the spotlight and I certainly don't want to be a whipping post. I am no hero. I am just a person who has been transformed by the grace of God and who wants to work, and be with my family. I just want to serve my neighbors quietly without violating my conscience. And so this morning, I am forced to fashion a remedy that reconciles

my conscience with Judge Benning's orders. Effective immediately and until an accommodation is provided by those with the authority to provide it, any marriage license issued by my office will not be issued or authorized by me.

I want the whole world to know, be no mistake about it that if my deputy clerks who do not have my authorization or the authority, they don't have my authority to issue any license whatsoever. I love my deputy clerks and I hate that they have been caught in the middle. If any of them feel that they must issue an authorized license to avoid being thrown in jail, I understand their tough choice and I will take no action against them.

However, any unauthorized license that they issue will not have my name, my title, and my authority on it. Instead the license will state that they are issued pursuant to a federal court order. Judge Benning indicated last week that he was willing to accept altered marriage license, even though he was not certain of their validity. I, too, have great doubts whether the license issued under these conditions are even valid.

This is why once again I urge Governor Beshear, the legislature, and the court to intervene. They have the authorization and the authority to provide these types of accommodations, and there's no reason why they cannot do so. Are we not a big enough, a loving enough and a tolerant enough state to find a way to accommodate my deeply held religious convictions?

While my case may be the most visible right now, there are millions of other people out there in the private -- in the public sector who face and are in the same position. And they also need reasonable accommodations. I urge everyone to remain civil and peaceful. I pray that our dialogue remains civil and respectful, because I love the Lord, and I love all people.

I harbor no ill will to anyone. I hate no one. Because I have been transformed by the love and forgiveness of my Lord Jesus Christ. I love every person. I love you all because he first loved me. Today, I put my faith and my trust in God and God alone. Thank you.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BANFIELD: And that was that. So with Davis not standing in their way, a short time ago, something happened, a same-sex couples walked in and then out with a marriage license in hand amid a sea of reporters and protesters who are protesting both sides of this issue.

Martin Savidge joins me live now from Moorhead, Kentucky. And I believe you've got the couple with you. Just take me take and talk to me about them and what happened.

MARTIN SAVIDGE, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Sure. Let's walk you through this whole thing, Ashleigh. I'm with Shannon and Carmen Wampler-Collins. They're a same-sex couple and they have waited a long time for this moment walking -- first of all, how do you feel now?

CARMEN WAMPLER-COLLINS, RECEIVED MARRIAGE LICENSE AT CLERK OFFICE: I feel great. I'm so excited. I can't wait.

SAVIDGE: You were nervous walking in and I'm not just talking about the anxiousness of the commitment, but the crowd you had to go through?

WAMPLER-COLLINS: Not today. Yesterday, I was really nervous because we didn't know what was going to happen and I was especially nervous about what kind of conflict might be between Kim Davis, you know, and her deputy who has said he was going to issue regardless of what she said. And you know, we didn't know what kind of conflict would that would look like. But --

SAVIDGE: It seemed to go smoothly.

WAMPLER-COLLINS: It did go smoothly.