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European Ministers Working to Find Solution to Migrant and Refugee Crisis; Hungary Closes Borders, Cracks Down on Refugees; Interview with Aylan Kurdi's Aunt

Aired September 14, 2015 - 15:00:00   ET





HALA GORANI, CNN HOST (voice-over): Tonight: The World Right Now is live from Brussels where European ministers are working into the evening to try

to find the beginning of a solution to the migrant and refugee crisis.


GORANI: We expect to hear from leaders any moment; we'll go to that live when it happens here on CNN. And that will come just hours before Hungary

closes its borders and cracks down even harder on refugees.

And later, my interview with Aylan Kurdi's aunt. She tells me why she believes the little boy's death sent a message to the world to act.


GORANI: Hello everyone, I'm Hala Gorani, we're live in Brussels, and this is The World Right Now.


GORANI: Well as I mentioned earlier this has gone a little bit beyond the schedule that we were given. We are waiting the (inaudible here in Brussels

where ministers have been debating how to handle the crisis that is threatening to overwhelm some parts of Europe. However, some EU members are

not waiting for a consensus to take action. Germany has taken a pretty extraordinary step of re-imposing border checks. Police say they've already

arrested several human traffickers there.


GORANI: And then Austria and Slovakia quickly followed Germany's lead. Austria is also deploying thousands of soldiers to help overwhelmed police.

And Hungary meantime is just hours away from imposing its own tough new regulations, probably the toughest since this all began. They include

prison sentences for anyone climbing the razor wire fence along Serbia's border.


GORANI: As minister's here in Brussels try to come to a solution to try to agree on some sort of compromise, the migrants and refugees keep streaming

into Eastern Europe.


GORANI: Their journeys began in the Middle East for many of them, the majority coming from Syria traveling through Turkey. It's been a dangerous

trek and many of the countries in Eastern Europe have struggled to cope with the numbers coming through.

For many, the ultimate destination is Germany, its government welcomed them saying a million could enter by the end of the year.


GORANI: However, some cities are feeling overwhelmed. Atika Shubert joins me now live from one of those cities, Munich. So Atika, What's going on

right now in Munich? Because hundreds, if not thousands, of refugees have still come in over last several days.

ATIKA SHUBERT, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: They have, in fact 16,000 coming in yesterday alone. And it is pouring rain in Munich, a lot

of concern about how refugees are coming across in bad weather like this.


SHUBERT: We've seen over the last few days them trudging through mud in Macedonia and Serbia. Fortunately however it does seem that the situation

here in Munich has calmed down somewhat. They have limited border controls but they're still allowing refugees across.

So what that means is, here in Munich, for example, only about 400 or so refugees came in today. Although we do know that more than a thousand

crossed over the border. What seems to be happening is they're spreading out the coming in of refugees to other cities, to other temporary shelters

so `cause you don't see this big surge coming in.

But Germany says it's still unsustainable to have more than 10,000 refugees coming in on average a day. And this is why they say they so desperately

need a joint asylum policy. But it doesn't sound like that's what is coming out of Brussels tonight, Hala.

GORANI: So it's pretty extraordinary, we were mentioning at the beginning of the hour, that Germany essentially has suspended itself from the

Schengen arrangement. The passport-free zone inside of the European Union by establishing border controls on its Austrian border. So how long is that

going to continue for? And what's the situation there at that border area where refugees would like to make it into Germany but can't this evening?

SHUBERT: Well it's actually pretty calm on the border. What they're doing specifically is they're stopping random trucks and cars, checking IDs, and

also getting onto some trains and checking IDs there. Anyone who's claiming to be a refugee and has for example Syrian or Iraqi ID will be allowed

through, but others that do not have ID may well be turned away.

So it's relatively calm at the border but it's not - it's not unprecedented to have these kinds of temporary border controls. During the G7 Summit for

example they were able to put those into effect for security reasons. It looks like they're actually bringing another bus with refugees out just




SHUBERT: But what it does mean is that with these temporary border controls they can only last for 30 days and then if possible extend it for another

day 30 days but that is the limit, so it is very much a temporary measure, Hala.

GORANI: And briefly, what's going on behind you. You mentioned a bus with refugees. Could you describe the scene?

SHUBERT: Yes. Actually you can see the bus - I'm oh, I'm so sorry in fact we're going to have to move to allow the bus to go through and you can see

people waving inside actually.

We have - there's about 400 refugees coming in today and most of the time they're brought in buses like this and brought to temporary shelters. No

problem, we'll just move slightly to get this.

And they're brought to temporary shelters where they're usually in tents or container homes. But the numbers previous days have been thousands. Today

is only in the hundreds. Might be able to see inside. There's a great diversity in the refugees coming here. Not all of them are from Syria and

Iraq as far away as Afghanistan and also Pakistan and a number of African nations have also come across. But this is kind of the scene everyday here

with refugees trickling into the station, brought on to buses and then brought to shelters, Hala.

GORANI: All right, Atika Shubert, live at the Munich train station a real multitasking reporter there helping operate the gate even for that bus.

Thanks very much, Atika Shubert is live in Germany.


GORANI: And as we bring you the latest in Europe's response to this massive refugee crisis this evening, we also do not want to lose sight of

the root causes. These pictures tell much of the story.


GORANI: Many of those seeking asylum are Syrians fleeing a civil war that has killed hundreds of thousands of people and left many parts of the

country uninhabitable. A drone filmed these exclusive images of the destruction in Kobani after Kurdish forces recaptured the city from ISIS

back in April. It really truly gives you a sense of in some areas of Syria just how impossible life is.

And by the way, the father of little Aylan Kurdi, Abdullah and his family originally came from Kobani and a little bit later I'll be speaking with

the aunt of the little boy so do stay tuned for that.


GORANI: Well, Speaking of where it all starts, British Prime Minister David Cameron, made an unannounced trip to the region today to meet with

Syrian refugees. He visited camps in both Lebanon and Jordan. Our Nick Paton Walsh is following the story from CNN Beirut.

And the British Prime Minister eager to show, after criticism that his country wasn't taking in many refugees compared to say Germany or Sweden,

eager to show that he's paying some interest to those who are suffering as a result of this war. Nick?

NICK PATON WALSH, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONALCORRESPONDENT: I mean you have to look at today's trip eager as he was to press home the British point

there's a degree of pageantry here certainly.


WALSH: I mean the UK turned around dramatically from being accused of being able to fit all of the Syrian refugees it would take onto one

carriage of an underground train to then saying after the front pages were captured with images you mentioned with Aylan Kurdi, that it would take

20,000 refugees in.

But David Cameron here today to announce and meet with some of those Syrians who he said would be getting resettlement in the UK to announce a

package of 29 million pounds about $45 million that will be used here in Lebanon to give food, assistance, to those refugees. Here's what he had to

say in one camp here in Lebanon.

DAVID CAMERON, BRITISH PRIME MINISTER: Well, I wanted to come here to see for myself and to hear for myself the stories of refugees and what they

need. Britain is already the second largest donor to refugee camps and to this whole crisis. Really helping in a way that many other countries aren't

with serious amounts of money. We'll go on doing that, including increasing the amount of money we're give to educate Syrian children here in Lebanon

and elsewhere. And I think that's absolutely vital.

WALSH: Now critics obviously point out that the UK has agreed finally to take 20,000 refugees over the period of the next five years or so. A drop

in the ocean compared to the well over a million here in a country where 1 in 4 people you'll meet is a Syrian refugee.

But to the U.K's point, what they say is they don't want to take those migrant and refugees who have made their way through Europe. Many say those

are the better resourced, the more able to have the initiative to get themselves that far into Europe.


WALSH: They're in fact focusing their aid on what they say is the more needy and those are those refugees in the actual camps here in Lebanon.

Remember in Jordan where David Cameron announced 6 million pounds of aid today people are running out of food vouchers. The World Food Program does

not have the money anymore to feed even some of the needy people there. The very vulnerable still getting them but a lot of people who badly need

help are not.


WALSH: That's how bad the crisis here is in the region. It's been going on for years. The world really wasn't paying much attention or much money

towards it until many of the refugees or migrants came to Europe shores. Now it is in the spotlight the UK keen to show their policy is focusing on

here. Aid agencies would like to see more countries giving more assistance to the region rather than trying to deal with the issue as it comes to

Europe's borders but still David Cameron here very I think keen to show the domestic audience and Europe that they're trying to do something on the

ground here. Hala?

GORANI: All right, thanks very much. Nick Paton Walsh is live in Beirut. And by the way a reminder, we're here in Brussels this evening where there

is a minister's meeting at the EU level trying to focus on coming up with some sort of solution. Of course the mandatory quota system proposed by the

European Commission President is being discussed. But also the idea perhaps of expanding and giving more funds, more financing, to some of

those refugee center, relocation centers or camps in Greece and Italy as well. And trying to address the problem in some of those countries

surrounding Syria of course Turkey, Jordan and Lebanon that have taken in millions of refugees.

And a lot more to come this evening. We speak to the aunt of Alyan Kurdi, the small boy who became the face of this refugee case. She tells me why

she feels a sense of responsibility for her nephew's death.


FATIMA KURDI, AYLAN KURDI's AUNT: I feel guilty because I thought he didn't have the money. And if I didn't send the money to him he wouldn't be able

to take that route. That's why I feel guilty.

GORANI: More from my moving interview with Tima Kurdi is coming up next. Stay with CNN.




GORANI: Welcome back, this is The World Right Now, I'm Hala Gorani, we're live in Brussels. We continue our coverage of this historic migrant and

refugee crisis across Europe.

So what's going on in this building here in the Belgium capital? Well Interior and justice ministers are huddled, or they're meeting, they're

discussing the idea of imposing compulsory migrant quotas on all European Union countries. There is a lot of resistance from central European

countries, including Hungary, Poland, Slovaki, the Czech Republic. They say it is not up to Brussels to impose refugees on them.

I also spoke to the Slovakian interior minister and one of the things he said is these migrants and these refugees, if they don't want to resettled

in his country, they will find a way to leave. They believe the system does not make sense.


GORANI: But then you have the frontier countries and countries who take in a lot of refugees compared to their European partners. Those are Germany,

Sweden, Italy, Greece, they all support the idea of mandatory migrant quotas.


GORANI: So it's a question of what kind of compromise kind this this group of ministers find in this building? Right now, the meeting is still ongoing

bi-laterals are taking place and they will huddle again probably late into the night.

Now back though to the human face of the tragedy.


GORANI: Andi it is impossible to forget the image that really forced the world to confront the crisis.

A tiny boy whose lifeless body washed ashore in Turkey, after a boat heading from that country capsized.


GORANI: The boy's father was on the boat but survived. He is now by the way denying reports that he was working with people smugglers. Other

passengers say the father was actually steering the boat that sank. Now we want to remind you about the tragic fate of little Aylan Kurdi and how he

changed hearts and minds. A warning before we get to my interview with his aunt, our report contains some very disturbing images.

It was the image that forced the world to wake up to the suffering on Europe's doorstep. The tiny lifeless body of 2-year-old Aylan Kurdi, washed

up on a Turkish beach. Aylan's family had set off in search of a new life away from war-torn Syria. But their boat capsized in the waves before they

could reach Greece. Leaving little Aylan, his 4-year-old brother, and his mother, to drown only Aylan's devastated father, Abdullah, was spared.

ABDULLAH KURDI, AYLAN'S FATHER: (AS translated): Is there someone whose children are not valuable to them? The children enrapture you. They wake up

in the morning, daddy, I want to play in the water. Is there anything bet are than this? Everything is gone.

GORANI: While Europe grew accustom to scenes like these, refugees flooding over its southern and eastern borders and on toward countries like Germany.

The images of Aylan, gave the crisis new meaning, a name, a face, and increased pressure on politicians to act.

DAVID CAMERON, BRITISH PRIME MINISTER: As a father, and as a human being, you can't help but be moved by these terrible pictures.

GORANI: For Aylan's family, a sense that the world had let him down. His aunt living in Canada had tried to help them make the journey. But instead,

had to console her brother after he watched his wife and children drown.


GORANI: Well Aylan's aunt Tima Kurdi is actually right here in Brussels today, and she delivered a very personal message to European leaders. She

says it's too late for her own family but that other refugees still desperately need help. I sat down with Fatima Kurdi today, asking her about

that heart wrenching picture that stirred the world's conscience.


FATIMA KURDI: To me, what I believe, it's a message from God to wake up the world. I don't know why I have that feeling. I have very strong feeling

that boy is God sent him to the world in this planet because there has to be a solution to stop it. It was too many, thousands of them are dying

every day and nobody doing anything about it.

GORANI: And all of a sudden the world's attention was drawn to this photo of your nephew, Aylan. What was it like for you then?

KURDI: First of all, it took me few hours to see on the internet that there is any news about what my brother told me. Because I couldn't talk to him

right away. And my husband, I remember, (Rocco), he show me all of a sudden that picture and right away that picture, I never saw -- see Aylan in

person or Ghalib, never met them, but I speak to Ghalib a lot on the phone. Somehow I see picture of him, obviously, even though he was facing down,

right away I was screaming, I said, this is Aylan.

GORANI: You knew they were going to set off that night?

KURDI: Yes. Well I heard the news at 5:00 in the morning. But that moment when I saw the picture was 10:00 a.m. Five hours later.

GORANI: But your brother had told you, we're getting ready to go? We're going to make - we're going to try to make it?


KURDI: Yes. Yes. He told me after the first when the boat hit first wave, there is a Turkish captain, he jumped off the water and run away. That's

his first phone call. And so I panic. I jumped and I took control of the boat. And I would do the same thing. I would do the same thing.

GORANI: Because you bring up the story, I've got to ask you about some of the accusations that have been made against your brother. We spoke at CNN

to an Iraqi woman, Zainab Abbas, she said your brother was driving from the beginning. And she didn't say he was affiliated with the smugglers, but she

said his story is not exactly correct.

KURDI: When I heard the news what she is saying I phone Abdullah, a few time to be honest. I said this is what I'm hearing and what you told me

right from the beginning, you control it after the Turkish captain, he run away. And he keep saying to me, is I don't know he why would she ay that.

And he was a crying and he said, so many other stuff that, if I am the smuggler, I am this and making all this money. Like why I want to put my

kids - my own kids in that danger. (Root) I am like her, I'm desperate like her. I pay the same money what she paid.

GORANI: So he's always repeated to you that he had to take the boat over when a Turkish smuggler jumped off.

KURDI: And I have to believe him. I know my brother. I have to take his word and believe him.

GORANI: So are you worried for his well-being?

KURDI: Of course. Of course. I remember a week ago he was in Kobani and I was on the phone with him whilst everybody asleep, nobody around. And I

heard somebody come, a lady, could be my cousin because we have a relative there, and she was asking him if he need anything, tea, coffee. And he

said, no, it's okay. And then she took the phone and she went outside and she told me that, Abdullah was talking to their toys.

GORANI: He was talking to his boys?

KURDI: Toys. Their toys.

GORANI: Oh, Abdullah was talking to his - to the toys of the boys of his children.

KURDI: Yeah.

GORANI: What was he --

KURDI: When she ask him if he need tea or coffee, he said, this time I put them to bed now. So she said to me, this is not good.

GORANI: What was her concern?

KURDI: Some people they have -- they get crazy, they talk to themselves. That's why I have to do something about it.

GORANI: What do you say to people who say, why did he put those two small children on the boat when he knew the risks? What is the level of

desperation he was feeling?

KURDI: It is not about Abdullah, about his family only. Ask millions of Syrian and Turkey, why you want it cross that? What drive you to go there?

You are in a safe place. Yes, they are in a safe place. But if you can't provide food and you can't provide the necessary stuff for your own family,

you think if you go somewhere else, Europe or some other country, maybe it is better for their future. And if you ask million of them in Turkey, they

will answer you for our kids future.

GORANI: You said something in the past that you feel guilty.

KURDI: I do.

GORANI: And why would you feel guilty?

KURDI: I feel guilty because I thought -- he didn't have the money. And if i didn't send the money to him, he wouldn't be able to take that route.

That's why I feel guilty.

GORANI: Because you contributed financially to his ability to pay smugglers.

KURDI: Yes, I pay him $5,000.

GORANI: And he was always -- he always told you, this is to pay for my way to Europe.


GORANI: He wanted to go to Canada or was he wanting to settle --

KURDI: No, when i sent him the money, it was to Europe.

GORANI: You are here in Brussels today. There's a big meeting going on with politicians. Why are you here?

KURDI: I'm here because -- to send a message to help the refugees. I want the whole world to step in, put hand together. Come up with a solution.

Share a plan. They have to finish this. And the war. Do something. Help those refugees. It's too late for -- to save Aylan and Ghalib or Rehana.

But not too late to save the other million of them that are desperate. They need help.


[15:25:19] GORANI: Well there you have it. Tima Kurdi there talking about her pain, her sorrow, and her worries for her brother as her nephew Aylan

Kurdi of course and his tragic fate drew the attention of the world to the plight of refugees from Syria.

We're going to take a quick break. We'll be right back.


GORANI: Welcome back to a special edition of The World Right Now we're live if Brussels this evening covering a meeting to tackle the migrant

crisis and we will bring you more on that developing story.

But now, let's look at another issue we've been closely following and that is the Iran nuclear deal.


GORANI: There's no shortage of American distrust. The new CNN ORC poll shows about half of those questions -- questioned would have preferred

congress to reject the agreement. And for some Iranians, the distrust is very mutual. Our Fred Pleitgen has more he is Teheran for us this evening.

FRED PLEITGEN, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: If anyone thought Iran's supreme leader would hold back with fiery rhetoric after the nuclear

agreement, think again. His anti-American and anti-Israeli views are plastered all over Teheran these days.

This one says America will be under Iran's shoes. And this one, god willing in 25 years, there will be no such thing as a Zionist regime. Khamenei also

blasted the U.S. and Israel in a recent speech just as Congress was set to vote on the nuclear agreement. Showing that even with the deal, distrust

towards America remains strong says Mohammad Marandi of Teheran University.

MOHAMMAD MARANDI, UNIVERSITY OF TEHRAN: The Iranians are not interested in having further talks with the United States because here they feel that the

United States has to show that it's serious at the negotiating table. It has to show itself as being serious at the implementation stage.

PLEITGEN: But there is another possible explanation for the tough talk. Iran's conservative clergy and its powerful military are the supreme

leaders strongest supporters. Both groups have been highly critical of the nuclear agreement.


PLEITGEN: Many conservatives feel that Iran gave up too much in return for sanctions relief and they want reassurances that there will be no further

major negotiations with the West any time soon.


PLEITGEN: A majority of Iranians do favor the agreement. And many we spoke to say they want better relations with America but also demand respect.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Iran is not like some other countries. Iranian people are proud of their history. We have a strong history so we are strong, we

are powerful. We don't let America abuse us.

PLEITGEN: Both sides should make compromises, this woman said. They should build on what they have in common instead of talking about their


For the first time since the Islamic revolution authorities remove the U.S. seal from a former embassy in Tehran and replaced it with a stone full of

word cursing America, a sign that even after successful talks over the nuclear issue, normal relations between Iran and the U.S. still seem a long

way off.

Fred Pleitgen CNN, Tehran.


[15:30:15] GORANI: And a lot more ahead. The Greek Macedonia border is the gateway into Europe for many migrants.


We'll have more on the record number who continue to cross it despite the border controls and despite the fences across the region. We'll be right






GORANI: Welcome back. Mexico is demanding to know how Egyptian security forces mistakenly fired on a group of tourists killing 12 people. At least

two of those individuals were Mexican. Some survivors say they were hit by air strikes.


GORANI: This happened in Egypt's western desert. Take a look at these file pictures of the vast area popular with adventure travellers and Ian Lee is

following these developments tonight. He is live from Egypt.


GORANI: What more do we know he about this deadly and tragic incident for these tourist?

IAN LEE, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, Hala, there's really contradicting narratives coming out tonight. We have from the Egyptian

side, which says that this tour group was not allowed to be in the area they were located. This is in the western desert near Bahariya.


LEE: They said that they didn't have permits to be in there and that they didn't coordinate with the government. But we are also hearing from family

members, friends, even the tourism union here in Cairo that in fact they did have these permits and they coordinated closely with officials on their

every movement.


LEE: We're being told by the army and police that there was an operation in the area against militants and smugglers and that it was mistaken

identity which led to this accident. At least two people have been killed but we're hearing from state media that at least seven Mexicans have been

killed. The Mexican foreign minister also commented on it, describing exactly what happened. Take a listen.


CLAUDIA RUIZ MASSIEU, MEXICAN FOREIGN MINISTER: (As translated). Ambassador Alvarez Fuentes personally interviewed six Mexicans in the

hospital who told him separately there had been an air attack with bombs dropped from a plane and helicopters. They had been evacuated by civilian

and military vehicles and were then transferred by ambulance to the hospital.


LEE: Well we were just outside the morgue talking to people. And they were asking us, wondering why the Egyptian government didn't verify who these

people were, what they were doing there before attacking. That according to what witnesses and survivors said that it was air strikes initially

right away, why didn't the Egyptian government try to verify who they were before attacking, Hala?


GORANI: All right. Excellent question. Thanks very much. Ian Lee is live in Cairo with more for a country of course also trying to attract tourists.

This type of tragedy is certainly going to make people think twice.

Now among the other stories we're following; police are searching for a gunman following a deadly shooting at a university in the U.S. State of



GORANI: A history professor was shot in the head while in his office eat Delta State University. The school tweeted earlier that the campus was on

lock down and police are now clearing all the buildings.


GORANI: Also, this story a significant political change in Australia. Tony Abbot has been ousted as the Prime Minister.


GORANI: He lost the leadership challenge from former communications minister Malcolm Turnbull who won the liberal party vote 54-44. Turnbull is

said to become the country's next leader and he spoke shortly after the vote.

MALCOLM TURNBULL, AUSTRALIAN PRIME MINISTER DESIGNATE: We need to have in this country, and we will have now, an economic vision, a leadership that

explains the great challenges and opportunities that we face. Describes the way in which we can handle those challenges, seize those opportunities, and

does so in a manner that the Australian people understand so that we are seeking to persuade rather than seeking to lecture. This will be a

thoroughly literal government.


GORANI: Back now to our main story, migrant and refugee crisis in Europe and political efforts to craft a continent-wide response. I'm in Brussels

tonight where officials are working later than we anticipated, we have to be honest about that, to try to solve the problem. And it's a first step,

by the way, because other meetings are schedule.

Ministers from EU nations are holding bilateral discussions right now. They have agreed so far, and this is where we are, they have agreed to relocate

40,000 migrants from Greece and Italy to other countries in Europe. But that is really the figure that was agreed upon last June. And divisions

remain over larger migrant quota proposals.

Let's take a look though at the wider journey into and through Europe.


GORANI: Many fleeing through war-torn Syria and Iraq and make the dangerous journey to Greece by boat, then they travel through Macedonia.

And over the weekend, a record number of migrants crossed into Macedonia from Greece. Many hoping to continue on to EU nations like Germany.


And meanwhile, Macedonia says it needs help dealing with the massive influx. Ivan Watson reports from its southern border.


IVAN WATSON, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: This is the border between Greece and Macedonia an informal crossing point through which refugees and

migrants have been streaming through by the thousands. More than 86,00 people in a single 24 hour period.

Hi. (Inaudible).


WATSON: Where are you from?


WATSON: Syria.


WATSON: Where are you going?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (inaudible) Finland.

WATSON: Finland? OK.


WATSON: Alemania.

So you hear these people identifying themselves as Syrian refugees, saying that they're either going to Finland or Germany. We've heard many people

say they want to go to Sweden as well.

This is an improvised journey that people are on. This is not a formal route. It's been kind of cobbled together and Greek and Macedonian

authorities, for example, have been allowing it to take place. Allowing these people to move through as swiftly as possible to move them on to

their next destination.

Most of the people we've spoken with began their international journey by boat. By small unsafe overcrowded smugglers, dinghies, traveling from the

Turkish coast to Greek islands. And that's where tragedy struck before dawn on Sunday when one of these vessels overturned. At least 34 people drown,

among the victims, 15 children, 4 of them were infants.

Now for those who made it here it Macedonia, the next leg of the journey will likely be aboard a train that will travel the length of Macedonia to

the next country on the migrant trail and that is Serbia.


WATSON: A challenge will now be posed as some European country have announced that they're going it tighten restrictions on their borders. And

we're getting warnings that as those policies get put into place, we can start to see bottle necks at border crossings like this one where people

once moved quite smoothly by the thousands we could start to see build-ups of migrants and refugees.

IVAN WATSON, CNN, at the Macedonian border with Greece.


GORANI: So how can European nations manage this influx of migrants? And is there any hope that the flow might let up. Let's get more. I'm joined by

Leonard Doyle, he's the spokesperson for the Director General of the International Organization for Migration, he's live in Geneva at this hour.

Hello from Brussels.

First of all, let's talk numbers here, the IOM does compile those statistics, what kind of figures here are we talking about in terms of this

year alone for migration into Europe?


LEONARD DOYLE, SPOKESPERSON, IOM: Well we're seen a (inaudible) rise it's almost double what it was in the entire of last year already at this time

and we've got 432,000. Yes.

GORANI: OK, I think we're having an issue here. If somebody could tell me - -

DOYLE: We have --

GORANI: All right, I can't hear him so. Oh, okay. Apologies.


GORANI: Several domestic issues are shaping up to be more important in the 2016 race for the White House than they were four years ago.


GORANI: Consider this new CNN ORC poll it shows that 39% of Americans view illegal immigration as "an extremely important factor in the vote for

President." Now that has risen 10 points since 2011. 27% say abortion is another top issue. Imagine in Europe asking that question and what

percentage it would get. 42% say gun control is a key factor and that is up 20 points.


GORANI: We'll see how the U.S. Republican candidates address these issues that may likely come up in Wednesday's Republican debate being hosted by

CNN in Simi Valley, California.

Chris moody is there ahead of the big night and joins us now. Now of course the first Republican debate drew I think 24 million viewers. Donald trump

is kind of injecting this whole thing with a bit of reality television spectacle so that's helping numbers as well. What are we hoping for debate


CHRIS MOODY, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well certainly sparks are expected to fly here in Simi Valley for Wednesday's debate.

I just want to give you a little preview of what's to come. It has one of those beautiful backdrops of any debate you can imagine.


MOODY: First of all there's going to be about 500 people standing on a stage that is three stories high. CNN's team spent a week putting this

together inside the Reagan debate.


MOODY: The moderators will stand here and then of course the candidates will all be standing in a row right in front of Ronald Reagan's Air Force

1. Just a couple of feet behind them. So it's really going to be a stunning backdrop for what promises to be a pretty substantive debate over a lot of

issues and a lot of, as you mentioned, big personalities that will be here.

GORANI: And talk us to about the format.


GORANI: Because, again, the field is so large, how is CNN going to make sure that everybody gets an equal amount of time and gets all of the

questions in?

MOODY: Well I know the teams coming up with the questions have worked painstakingly hard for the past several weeks to try to make sure that

happens. The debates will be divide into two sections. One for those polling in the lower numbers and then the top 11 who are polling at the

top. Donald trump and Ben Carson in the middle and the others fanning out on the other side.


MOODY: Jake Tapper will be the primary host along with Dana Bash and Hugh Hewitt who will also be asking questions.


MOODY: And there's a lot of differences honestly between a lot of these candidates. They're within the same party but on issues of how to tackle

immigration or trade with other countries or the economy and taxes you see a lot of daylight between a few of them. Now we should expect a lot of them

to come after the front-runner, the guy at the top, Mr. Donald Trump.


MOODY: Whenever you're at the top of any Presidential list, you are going to be the one targeted so expect a lot of sparks to fly between these



GORAN: Because it was interesting for the first debate, the candidates didn't really go after Trump. In this particular scenario, it appears as

though they believe now it's really in their strategic best interests to attack him. Is that correct?


MOODY: At first there was kind of a policy of well let's wait for this Trump thing go away, it's just a summer fling. But now, every day that

Trump leads in the polls, is another day closer to those caucuses, to those primaries and people are starting to get nervous. Republicans saying this

guy might not go away quickly.

So if you talk to a lot of Republican strategists, people close to campaigns, they say that the hits are going to start coming this fall.

Summer was one thing. Now people are going to start putting money behind ads to go after Donald Trump on television and the radio. And I think

you'll get a real preview for what they might look like, the kinds of topics people will discuss right here in Simi Valley at the debates on



GORANI: All right, Chris Moody, thanks very much. And you heard that the debate is taking place at the Ronald Reagan Presidential Library just north

of Los Angeles. Our Jake Tapper will be the moderator and he gives us an inside look at the remarkable venue.


JAKE TAPPER, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: The debate may still be days away but it is all systems go here at the Ronald Reagan Library. This is

it the stage where all the magic is going to happen on Wednesday night at the Ronald Reagan Museum and Library. You can see and hear workers getting

the sage ready. Normally this floor doesn't even exist here. We're all getting prepared for what could be a momentous evening in presidential


The Republican candidates will have this as their backdrop, Air Force 1.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: This is the plane that flew President Reagan for all eight years of his administration.

TAPPER: It's one of many impressive pieces of presidential memorabilia on display here at the Reagan Library. Library spokesperson, Melissa Giller,

says Air force 1 was always fully stocked. Was there anything on there that was particular to President Reagan?

MELISSA GILLER, CHIEF MARKETING OFFICER, REAGAN PRESIDENTIAL FOUNDATION: There sure was. He loved chocolate cake. So aboard every single flight

there was a chocolate cake in the back galley. Not just because he loved it, but just in case someone went up to him and whispered at some point in

time, you know President Reagan did you know it's Jake's birthday? The cake could come out and they could sing happy birthday.

TAPPER: More than 350,000 people each year visit the library to experience this spectacular Simi Valley setting and pay their respects to our 40th

President. He was laid here to rest in his beloved California, facing westward so he could forever look out towards the Pacific.

GILLER: This is a real piece of the Berlin wall. It came down in 1991. Ronald Reagan was here in `94 when we received the piece.

TAPPER: Inside the museum an exact replica of Reagan's oval office complete with a jar of jelly beans or jelly bellies that he always kept at


And it was a way that he ---

GILLER: -- Gave up smoking.

TAPPER: Gave up smoking. And so whenever he had a fix he would grab a jelly?

GILLER: He had jelly beans, jelly bellies everywhere.

TAPPER: The plane, the oval, trappings of the very office the candidates will be battling to reach Wednesday night.

I'm Jake Tapper for CNN in Simi Valley, California.


GORANI: Well be sure to tune in this Wednesday on CNN when the Republican Presidential candidates face off in back to back debates. Watch live on

September 16th starting at 11:00 p.m. in London. Midnight in Berlin, it'll be an all-night party.


GORANI: Don't miss it. Coming up, a return to our top story.


[15:50:00] GORANI: And of course the thousands of refugees still trying to make their way through Hungary. We will hear from local volunteers trying

to help in that country where many don't feel welcome. We'll be right back.



GORANI: Local volunteers are on the train to help those heading west. CNN caught up with some of those volunteers.


GORANI: Welcome back. Tens of thousands of migrants have arrived at Budapest's main railway station in the past week alone. Local volunteers

are on hand to help them get through all the chaos and onto trains headed west. CNN caught up with some of those volunteers.


ALI BURIMA, VOLUNTEER FROM LIBYA: At 6:00 o'clock from every morning, this gate behind us is opened for the refugees. As you can see, there are so

many of them. All of them, they just want to go inside. And they (inaudible) so it's really hard to work in this situation. And our work now

is not just how to solve this problem.

Some of them they didn't sleep since likely three days or more. And they just let someone - one of the family in the line. So they let them inside

toward the line, in the line, after that, he tried to call his family. When the family come, the other people cannot understand that.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The problem is that the volunteers cannot organize all the refugees at once like and they all want to reach the train and the

problem is there is too many people making too much chaos and there's basically no organization at the moment. And for that reason we don't know

what to do and how to deal with the situation.

MARK, VOLUNTEER: There are 2,000 maybe here. But in the transit zone there are more - there are more. Every day there are more and more.

HAYA AL MOHAMMAD, SYRIAN VOLUNTEER FROM HUNGARY: We put it the Facebook all the time. Some news about please everyone who speak the language, speak

Arabic and English, speak Arabic and Hungarian, please come to (inaudible), we need your help. Sometimes coming the people but you know everyone here

have his life, (inaudible) his work, his university. But when he can come in, he come.

BURIMA: My name is Ali Burima from Libya. I decided to help these people because as you know before we the same situation in my country so we know

what does it mean to be out of your country and there's the bombs and everything. It gives us like motivation to come here and help these people.

(SYRIAN REFUGEE) : I started travel go Turkish in sea. Now I am in Budapest at a train to Austria and go to German. I love German. I love

Arabia, I love.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I am mother and also I have my work. But just I am (inaudible) think all of them and university study. Everyone he finish, he

finish the university, he come to here. All the mother and father who he has time to come to here and help we are coming to help.

[15:55:11] All of them have a story. Really there are too many (inaudible) the story. I am - I am listening to this story maybe from 11 or 12

families. There are some family, this taxi man, he take his child and she said if you don't give back your child you don't give me the money.

AL MOHAMMAD: (Inaudible) Everyone had a story. Everyone has something. But I don't know what I said. But this - this now what we have.

GORANI: Well head to our website for the latest on this story from the EU minister's meeting, the many other reports on the migrant crisis and also

information on how can you help if you would like to do that. And don't forget to head to my Facebook page as well. We'll have Aylan Kurdi's

aunt interview, Tima Kurdi, that'll be on there,


GORANI: That's going to do it for us for this hour, I'll see you as soon as we have more news from Brussels. Thanks for watching, I'm Hala Gorani,

Quest Means Business is next. (MUSIC PLAYING)