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Presidential Politics; Trump and Carson Neck and Neck; President Reagan's Plane; Candidates vie for Reagan Mantle. Aired 2- 2:30p ET

Aired September 15, 2015 - 14:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[14:00:17] BROOKE BALDWIN, CNN ANCHOR: All right, here we go, we're at the top of the hour here live in Simi Valley, California, 11:00 local, 2:00 on the East Coast. It is a pleasure to be here.

Let me tell you the headline this morning in southern California, the rain, but it's clearing up in beautiful Simi Valley and folks are getting ready to rock and roll come Wednesday night. We are just about 24 hours away from the main event. And when you think about where all the candidates are today, you won't see them. They're basically off the grid preparing for our debate here at the Ronald Reagan Presidential Library tomorrow night, with one exception. Can you guess who that may be? Donald Trump. Donald Trump on the move today. He's firing up crowds, basking in his front runner status, out and about last night, out and about this evening. We'll get to that.

But as far as the lay of the land here at the Reagan Presidential Library, this is how it will look on your TV. Donald Trump, front and center, with our Republican candidates debate one another. It kicks off tomorrow night at 6:00 Eastern. But Donald Trump has some company now near the top of this new national poll in the form of Dr. Ben Carson, his fellow outsider. He continues his strong summer surge. Trump is holding on to first place with 27 percent, but Carson now at 23 percent within the margin of error and riding a huge 17-point jump since July. The other candidates, as we have seen in our own CNN polling, languishing in single digits.

Let's talk about this new poll and so much more with my friends here in California, CNN political commentators Van Jones and S.E. Cupp.

Good to see both of you.

S.E. CUPP, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Good to see you.

VAN JONES, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Good to see you.

BALDWIN: The sun has come out.

CUPP: Yeah!

BALDWIN: (INAUDIBLE) the blue sky.

JONES: Yes.

BALDWIN: Let's talk politics. JONES: Yes.

CUPP: All right.

BANFIELD: And especially with that poll. I mean now you see, I mean, Trump was so far ahead, but with the new "New York Times"/CBS poll, he is - Dr. Carson is gaining on him. Do you think Trump, come tomorrow night, has got to look over his shoulder a little bit?

CUPP: Probably. Yes. You know, he's been getting into it with Ben Carson a little bit.

BANFIELD: Yes.

CUPP: So I assume that he won't lay off tomorrow night. But, look, Ben Carson has risen, I think, so much because he's not faced a ton of scrutiny yet. I think once people really start laying the magnifying glass on Ben Carson, some of the things he's said, some his record, I think you'll start to see his potential deflate just a bit.

JONES: You know what, that -

BALDWIN: You said yesterday watch out for the quite guy on the stage.

JONES: Yes, I say - I say, don't underestimate the quiet guy on the stage. You know, under ordinary rules of engagement, he shouldn't even be where he is. I mean ordinarily some, you know, reasonably respected doctor would not be beating governors and senators -

BALDWIN: Right.

JONES: But he is. So I think we just may be in a world where the rules don't apply. It could be you start hitting with his record and people rally to him. We are in such a different political season it is hard to predict.

BALDWIN: What about the fact that so many people are undecided because when you look at that same poll, almost two-thirds say they have not made up their minds. So when you think of that massive crop of candidates, right, all 11 squeezed together on that stage, how do they, you know all the hes and one she, stand out?

CUPP: But that's (INAUDIBLE). That's good. It's September of 2015. You shouldn't be decided.

BALDWIN: Yes.

CUPP: And that's why so many people are going to tune in tomorrow night to the debate -

BALDWIN: Right.

CUPP: Because they want another look -

JONES: Yes. CUPP: At all of these candidates. There's an unprecedented number of them. We barely have time to get to know them. Trump has been taking up all of the oxygen. So this is a good thing. And this is why people like Carly Fiorina's team, Scott Walker's team, I've talked to both of those campaigns recently, they love that their name I.D. is so low because they still get a chance -

JONES: Yes, room to grow.

CUPP: To introduce their candidates to the nation.

BALDWIN: Do they really love it or is that how they (INAUDIBLE)?

JONES: Yes, I -

CUPP: No, I mean they think that's a positive. If you look at Scott Walker, and the campaign will tell you this, he's got high favorables and high unknowns. That's the perfect alcamy (ph) for them in their mind to sort of roll him out around the country.

JONES: I - I look at it differently. I think for Carly that's probably true because Carly started at zero, as an asterisk, and she's climbing. Scott Walker was at 18 percent. He was at 20 percent. We were trembling in fear. The guy that destroyed the Democratic Party in Wisconsin, who beat labor, not once, not twice, but three times. This guy is going to grab the nomination. He's not going up. He's tumbling.

CUPP: But that was never sustainable with all of these people in the mix. And they knew that.

JONES: Well - well tell Trump that because Trump's got 30 percent.

BALDWIN: Well, speaking of that, I think what a lot of people are also talking about today, there are multiple ads out and specifically let me ask you about Club For Growth, a pro-business, pro-Wall Street group, deep pockets, obviously no fan of Donald Trump, spending a million dollars to run TV ads in Iowa that sort of highlight his past as a Democrat. So here's a piece of that.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Which presidential candidate supports higher taxes, national health care and the Wall Street bailout? It's Donald Trump.

[14:05:06] DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: In many cases I probably identify more as a Democrat.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Trump wants us to think he's Mr. Tell It Like It Is, but he has a record and it's very liberal.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: All right, so Donald Trump has already hopped on Twitter. This is his response. Quote, "little respected Club for Growth asked me for a million dollars. I said no. Now they are spending lobbyist and special interest money on ads." What - JONES: Oh, the counterpuncher. He's the counterpuncher. Listen -

BALDWIN: Is that your best Arnold Schwarzenegger? What was that, Van?

JONES: No, no. And you know why? And, you know -

CUPP: Who were you being?

JONES: I'm being Schwarzenegger because I'm in California -

CUPP: OK.

JONES: And the last time some celebrity ran some bizarre campaign, we would up with Schwarzenegger for two years. So I did have a flashback right there.

But I think that the counterpunching is important, but I also think when Donald Trump comes out and says tax the rich, let's just be very clear, he's not saying tax himself. He's saying tax the hedge fund guys. He didn't say tax the real - tax the real estate guy. So even when he's saying tax the rich, he's actually picking fights with people he doesn't like.

CUPP: I think ads against Donald Trump are going to be pretty effective for people who aren't necessarily tuning in every day to the ongoing skirmishes. I don't know that going after his ideology is a - his supporters don't seem to care. I think his big, you know, the big mantle that you have to dismantle is that he's anti-establishment. I don't know anything about him that's anti-establishment. He supports establishment candidates. He has establishment points of view. I would challenge him on tomorrow night's stage to explain what makes him - what establishments have you actually gone after in your life?

BALDWIN: Well, that's the question, right? It's the whole substance over just sort of personality and how much of that will factor in.

CUPP: Yes.

BALDWIN: Final question to you first, if you're looking, all 11 on the stage, what are the two matchups, the head-to-head, the glaring in the eye, what will you really be watching for?

CUPP: Yes. You know, it would be great if there were a Carly Fiorina/Trump moment because I think she is particularly and uniquely positioned to sort of take him on and come off looking better as opposed to worse.

BALDWIN: She has to have that line ready to roll (INAUDIBLE).

CUPP: She's got it. I would expect her to say, you know, ladies, look at this face, at least at one point tomorrow night.

JONES: Yes.

BALDWIN: Yes.

CUPP: I think that's the - the one I'm most looking forward to.

JONES: That's going to be the big moment everybody talks about. But you know what, I hope that Kasich, who has really been kind of quiet -

BALDWIN: He has been quite.

JONES: You know, Jeb Bush came out and said a bunch of bizarre stuff about people being soft on crime and weird stuff. Kasich, Rand Paul, Rick Perry and other Republicans have actually been much smarter on criminal justice than people expect from Republicans. I would like to hear Kasich explain why dealing with criminal justice as a conservative value is good for the Republican Party and challenge Jeb Bush to quit crawling around in his dad's sock door for 1980s rhetoric on crime.

BALDWIN: Van and S.E., thank you so much. Thank you, thank you, thank you.

CUPP: Thanks.

BALDWIN: And, of course, just a reminder that you can watch all the action here at the Reagan Presidential Library tomorrow night. The main event begins at 6:00. And then the big 11-person debate at 8:00 Eastern. Again, the first round, you have Pataki, Santorum, Jindal and Graham. They face off beginning at 6:00. All happening live here on CNN. Do not miss a beat.

Coming up next here, speaking of that number two vying for that nomination, we will talk live to Ben Carson's campaign about whether this rising candidate is preparing differently this go around than the last debate.

Plus, the woman who was there in the big d, Dallas last night, introducing Donald Trump to a packed arena there, she will join me live, along with a conservative who calls Trump, and I quote, "an idiot." Don't miss that.

And, if you have ever wanted to see inside of Air Force One, I'm taking you in. This plane was used all the way from President Nixon to George W. Bush. It will be flanking all the candidates center stage come Wednesday night. We have a sneak peek from everything from nuclear codes to jelly bellies. Stay here.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[14:13:23] BALDWIN: You're watching CNN. I'm Brooke Baldwin.

Two presidential candidates with just about nothing in common except perhaps the fact that they are both outsiders. They are now topping the Republican polls. I want you to look at these numbers here. We keep revisiting this. This is really the headline today. This CBS/"New York Times" poll of Republican voters. You have Donald Trump, he is still on top with 27 percentage points. But very close behind now, again, the poll's six-point margin of error, you have ben Carson at 23 percent, which means this billionaire and the surgeon are just about tied. Carson's 23 percent support even more impressive when you take a look at CBS News' poll from just two months ago where he was just sitting at 6 percent.

So joining me now, Dean Parker, a finance committee chair for Dr. Carson's campaign.

Dean, welcome. Thank you so much for joining me.

DEAN PARKER, FINANCE COMMITTEE CHAIRMAN, BEN CARSON CAMPAIGN: Thanks for having me, Brooke.

BALDWIN: My goodness, you all must be doing a little bit of a happy dance here when you look at those numbers. I mean we're talking - your man is nipping at the heels of the front runner. And I'm wondering, what do you think has been the difference? If you can name one thing in the last two months for Dr. Carson to get this close to Donald Trump, what is it?

PARKER: I think it has to be a continued consistency in our message. We have been out talking to the American people. The American people are listening. They're adapting. They are taking our message and sharing it virally with their friends and neighbors. This is the election that they are feeling Dr. Carson is the candidate of the people and he is continuing to move forward in a way that they hear, they listen and they continue to get excited about it. So it would have to be the consistency of our message. This is a marathon, not a sprint.

[14:15:14] BALDWIN: You know, something that I've definitely noticed that is a real focus on the state of Iowa, and I'm wondering if you can, right now, take me inside your, you know, Ben Carson campaign war room and explain to me why the emphasis, why make Iowa right now the centerpiece of the campaign?

PARKER: Well, we are doing very well in Iowa, as you know and as you talked about the tie in the polls right now. But the thing you have to remember about Iowa and it's not just Iowa, we're doing the same thing in South Carolina, Nevada, New Hampshire, Alabama, Virginia. We're seeing this all across the nation that, you know, our strategy is continuing to put the right people involved at the right time and to make sure that we execute flawlessly.

And he has put a leadership team around himself and Dr. Carson is proud of what he's doing and he's continuing to know that this is nothing to get excited about now. It's a long haul going to the primaries and we're just going to continue to take it one day at a time and continue to make sure that we mimic our campaign to the person Dr. Carson is. He's about authenticity -

BALDWIN: You know -

PARKER: And leadership.

BALDWIN: Right. Speaking - speaking of Iowa, though, and let me just go ahead and add New Hampshire to that. You're a finance man, so I would be remiss not to just at least get you to comment on the news today that we now know the Jeb Bush super PAC has thrown down $24 million for an ad in those two states that is big money. Your reaction to that.

PARKER: I know this, that every month we see our fundraising doubling month in and month out. Just in the first two weeks of September, we've already done what we did in all of August and the people are giving the money. So we also have our own super PACs involved. They are getting very well funded. And you'll see that in the reports that come out in the fall.

BALDWIN: $24 million, Dean, come on, can you comment on that specifically?

PARKER: I'm not going to comment about other campaigns. We know that we're running our campaign and the people are enjoying it and they'll continue to enjoy it. I think you can see the amount of money spent on a lot of places by a lot of campaigns and it doesn't necessarily mean an increase in polls.

BALDWIN: OK. One more for you because I've wandered around where the - where the podiums are, the 11 podiums, for tomorrow night. And I know that Dr. Carson was telling "The Wall Street Journal" earlier in the week that he had not gotten as much air time in the last debate. I think that will, obviously, be a stark difference come tomorrow where he'll be standing essentially at the center of the stage. How is he preparing differently this go around here for California?

PARKER: Well, I don't know if it's differently. I think he's preparing in the same. He was very well prepared for the first debate. As you noticed, we didn't get the air time. I think this time he's continuing to do the same strategy he has. He has the right advisers around him. Whether we're talking foreign policy or immigration, he is well prepared for whatever question comes and you're going to hear the same message you always hear, and that's one from the heart, from a confident leader that is ready to lead the American people.

BALDWIN: Dean Parker, thank you so much.

PARKER: Thank you, Brooke. We'll see you tomorrow.

BALDWIN: Thank you. We'll see you tomorrow indeed.

Coming up next here, a former Ronald Reagan adviser will join me next. How similar this current crop of candidates are to the president and how some of them are not Reagan-esque whatsoever. We'll get her to weigh in on that.

Plus, my special tour of President Reagan's Air Force One that will be flanking all those candidates come Wednesday night. We'll take you inside, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[14:23:02] (BEGIN VIDEOTAPE) BALDWIN: We're here at the Reagan Presidential Library and we're actually able to go inside of Air Force One. This is the only Air Force One at any presidential library in the country. Every president from Nixon until George W. Bush used this plane. Let's go in. So here we are. John Heubusch, executive director of the Reagan

Foundation.

JOHN HEUBUSCH, EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR, REAGAN FOUNDATION: Good to see you, Brooke.

BALDWIN: Thank you so much for having CNN in our house, by the way.

HEUBUSCH: Oh, happy to, really.

BALDWIN: On board Air Force One, the cockpit, with the presidential seals even on all the chairs. Tell me about it.

HEUBUSCH: That's right. President Reagan's airplane that he flew all eight years he was in office. He also shared the plane in history because it flew six other United States presidents.

BALDWIN: And he even went in the cockpit himself.

HEUBUSCH: Oh, oh, yes. One of his favorite places to be, in there with the pilots and the flight engineers. And, you know, actually President Reagan wasn't a great fan of flying, but he flew almost more than any other president.

BALDWIN: Incredible. Let's continue on.

HEUBUSCH: Absolutely.

BALDWIN: So the cockpit behind us, as you walk down this hallway, this is the command communication center. Lots of buttons and lights.

HEUBUSCH: Yes, this way President Reagan could reach anyone in the world that he needed to in a moment's notice.

BALDWIN: And the football.

HEUBUSCH: Yes, the very famous football, the suitcase that carried the nuclear codes that the president could access in a time of a grave national emergency.

BALDWIN: And it's called the football because it's passed from president to president.

HEUBUSCH: That's right.

BALDWIN: OK, let's head this way into the office. So from nuclear codes on board this Air Force One, to the fact that President Reagan had quite the sweet tooth, can you tell me about the - the cake that was always on board?

HEUBUSCH: Yes. And unlike many other presidents, President Reagan always made sure that when he flew on Air Force One it would have a chocolate cake. And the reason would be inevitably whether it was someone in the press corps or someone on the staff or a family member, it would be an important date like an anniversary or birthday for someone and he always wanted to be prepared for that moment. BALDWIN: I heard they would never land without the cake being eaten.

HEUBUSCH: Oh, yes, that's - apparently they were really good.

[14:25:00] BALDWIN: And then there's the jelly bellies on board because he was a smoke - he was a pipe smoker.

HEUBUSCH: Yes.

BALDWIN: And to quit that, he found a different vice being sugar.

HEUBUSCH: That's right. That's right. And I guess if I were him, I'd rather take the vice of sugar over smoke.

BALDWIN: I would too.

HEUBUSCH: So, yes, just like the football with President Reagan, they were always within inches of his grasp.

BALDWIN: And his favorite flavor was?

HEUBUSCH: Well, I'm always told it was black licorice, but I can't imagine that's true. It's not the favorite color of mine.

BALDWIN: I mean I - I always thought I was the rarest to enjoy a black licorice, so at least President Reagan and I have that in common.

Before I go, can I sit in his chair?

HEUBUSCH: Absolutely. Please do.

BALDWIN: Oh, my goodness. So this was his office essentially on board. And his chair.

HEUBUSCH: That's right.

BALDWIN: This is his actual jacket.

HEUBUSCH: It is. Yes.

BALDWIN: Wow. This is incredible. And what's also incredible, look out the window. That's our debate stage. So all 11 candidates Wednesday night will be flanked by the plane and President Ronald Reagan's legacy will loom large.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BALDWIN: How incredible is that? And as I just mentioned, you know, there is no question, the man who inspired every single inch of this beautiful place here in Simi Valley, you know, will certainly be invoked by a number of the candidates who will be on this stage tomorrow night. Donald Trump is using a version of Reagan's campaign slogan, let's make America great again. Jeb Bush just released what he called, quote, a Reagan-inspired tax reform plan. And now one political ad is - it's essentially juxtaposing President Reagan's famous 1989 farewell address from the messages of three specific candidates who want to dawn Reagan's mantle, as it were, and become president.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: They're bringing crime. They're rapists. If I'm elected, they're going to be out of there day one.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You think that birthright citizenship should be ended?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes, absolutely.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I said we should end birthright citizenship.

TRUMP: I will build a great, great wall.

RONALD REAGAN, FORMER U.S. PRESIDENT: In my mind it was a tall, proud city built on rocks stronger than oceans. And if there had to be city walls, the walls had doors and the doors were open to anyone with the will and the heart to get here.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: Charmaine Yoest joins me, the president of Americans United for Life and a former Reagan adviser.

Charmaine, wonderful to have you on. You know, as close to President Reagan as you were, I have to imagine, I keep saying he'll almost be like the 12th man on stage, you know, Wednesday night.

CHARMAINE YOEST, FORMER REAGAN ADVISER: Right. Right.

BALDWIN: And all - you're also wondering if these candidates will try to - to out Reagan one another.

YOEST: Right.

BALDWIN: What do you think President Reagan would - what do you think President Reagan would think of this crop of candidates?

YOEST: Well, you know, that was really pretty nostalgic to see those clips. And it is really, really remarkable to be going into this season with kind of the heritage of Ronald Reagan in this party. And I think the poll that - that you've been talking about leading into this segment is really kind of significant because you have two front runners and really we should be talking about them as two front runners and not really focusing completely on Donald Trump as the front runner because Ben Carson is kind of coming along as the ying to Donald Trump's yang.

BALDWIN: Nipping at his heels.

YOEST: Yes. And so that's really significant because we've been talking a lot about how Donald Trump is so aggressive and forthright and really even negative. And - but you can't miss the fact that Ben Carson comes along and he's - he's polling up because he's a positive person. He's much more optimistic, much more polite. And I don't think we can miss that because really the American people, I think, are saying by putting both of them kind of on the same level that they're looking for an intersection of those two. And that's kind of what the Reagan legacy is, is when you put the positivity and the negativity together, the aggression but with that still polite, happy optimism, that's leadership. And that's what the American people are ultimately going to go for.

BALDWIN: But when you think of - you think of President Reagan's, you know, to use your word, positivity in that farewell address where essentially he was saying, you know, the U.S. is a shining city on a hill that should be welcoming all people.

YOEST: Right.

BALDWIN: And back to that ad where, you know, they're pulling quotes from Walker and Cruz and Trump. You know, Trump made the comment about immigrants, Mexicans being rapists when he kicked off his campaign and, you know, how they want a number of these undocumented immigrants to just up and be, you know, shipped home, as they would say. I mean here you have then on the flip side someone like President Reagan who granted amnesty for nearly 3 million undocumented immigrants.

YOEST: Right. Well, see here's the thing. I think you're making an important point, which is, even though we keep talking about the positives of Trump and Carson and where people are polling positively, we can't miss the negatives too. Donald Trump's real challenge going into this debate is that his negatives are so high. And that's an under toe that comes along in politics and can eventually take you under because the American people really do want that positive, optimistic vision that tells them where we're going, not the negativity.

[14:30:00] So my - what I would be saying to these politicians as they get ready for this debate, were I in that position going into and getting ready, is, if this turns into a mud fight, that's a loss because the - you can't interpret Trump in that way.