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Republican Debate. Aired 2-2:30p ET

Aired September 16, 2015 - 14:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


[14:00:00] BROOKE BALDWIN, CNN ANCHOR: Here we go. We are live here at the Ronald Reagan Presidential Library here in beautiful Simi Valley, California. I'm Brooke Baldwin. Thrilled to be here. Hours away from the main event where history will be made this evening. Ten men and one woman will take one another on in the CNN Republican presidential debate. And some of them right now are arriving on the scene. They're walking around our staging area, seeing how close these podiums are to one another, seeing how incredibly intimate this venue is. Keep in mind, I've sat in the front row. You are just about ten feet away from those candidates.

George Pataki is actually, right now, touring the stage. They're each getting their turns, about 15 minutes, in a couple of buildings away from me. And he actually just talked to my colleague Athena Jones. Here's what the governor just said.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GOV. GEORGE PATAKI (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Just fight and make the case.

ATHENA JONES, CNN CORRESPONDENT: What did you do to prepare this morning for the debate?

PATAKI: You know, my whole life has prepared me for this. I was governor of New York for three terms. I've been through everything from September 11th to the excitement of our recovery. And I'm ready.

JONES: And last question, how are - what's your plan? What's your goal? How are you going to break through tonight?

PATAKI: Just be myself. Let the people know my optimistic view of America. That the sky is the limit when we work together. I know that's true. I believe in America.

JONES: OK. Good luck.

PATAKI: Thank you.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: All right, Athena Jones joins me now from inside that pavilion where the debate will be set.

And, listen, I appreciate the governor speaking to you. I don't know if I'd want to talk to media here in the hours ahead of really what could be the biggest moment in their - in their political lives. Tell me more about who you're seeing and what they're doing when they're there on stage.

JONES: Hi, Brooke.

Isn't it interesting how Governor Pataki said that his whole life has prepared him for this debate. That echoes what Donald Trump has said, his entire life is preparation for a debate.

But we've seen several candidates arrive from both the top tier debate and the main event, the prime time debate tonight. Senator Lindsey Graham, Senator Marco Rubio. He had something interested to say. I said, how are you going to break through tonight? You know, what's your goal? And he said, look, this is a long process. This contest will not be decided tonight.

I also spoke with Governor Huckabee briefly and he said his concern was whether or not he was going to get enough time to talk. He said so much attention has been on one or two candidates that he hopes he gets a chance to kind of try to make his case. But as you can see probably in some of the pictures you're able to see that I'm not able to see outside, as the candidates go in there to that debate hall that we've been talking so much about, they get a chance to go check out the podium. They get a chance to see where the moderators will be sitting. Take a look at the whole scene and get the lay of the land so they know what to expect later on tonight. Now just a few hours from now, Brooke.

BALDWIN: Athena Jones, the countdown clock is on. Fewer than four hours to that first debate. Thank you so much. Here with me in Simi Valley, California.

JONES: Thanks.

BALDWIN: Let's open this up and have a bigger debate ahead of the debate this evening. I have some incredibly brainy and beautiful ladies to my right, so I want to bring them in here. I have CNN national political reporter Maeve Reston, CNN political commentator Amanda Carpenter, who is a former communications director for Senator Ted Cruz, and Katie Packard Gage, who is the deputy campaign manager for Mitt Romney's 2012 presidential campaign.

So, so great to have all of you all here. I mean I feel the nerves. Even just seeing Senator Paul getting off the stage, you know, you feel - you feel it, right, for them almost in a sense. The question to you first is really the headline today, this New Hampshire poll. You see the obvious, you know, Trump ahead, Carson at number two and now Fiorina has pulled in at number three and Jeb Bush has really, you know, dropped.

MAEVE RESTON, CNN NATIONAL POLITICAL REPORTER: Right, which is not surprising. I will say one thing about Fiorina is, she has been working people there for months. Like the influencers, she's been back so many times. So we did expect to see her rise in New Hampshire at some point. But, obviously, this is not good news for Jeb Bush, once again, sliding back in the polls. BALDWIN: I mean psychologically -

RESTON: Yes, I mean you just don't -

BALDWIN: Psychologically going into it.

RESTON: It's like, you've got to have your game face on, you know. So it's just really interesting the way these sort of insider candidates, as they've been classified, are sliding down.

BALDWIN: Right.

RESTON: And you see Fiorina and Carson rising up there with Trump. And perhaps overtaking Trump at some point soon.

BALDWIN: Perhaps. We don't know yet.

Also in that same poll, eight out of 10 Americans want change in Washington. It's a theme we've seen before. To you two ladies who've worked, who've been on the inside, who've been sort of the gurus for some of these candidates, four hours out, what are they doing right now?

KATIE PACKER GAGE, DEPUTY CAMPAIGN MANAGER FOR ROMNEY 2012: Well, you know, speaking for Governor Romney, you know, this was a time when he really just sort of looked to decompress and spend time with his family. He wasn't trying to -

BALDWIN: (INAUDIBLE) his wife there.

GAGE: Always. And wasn't trying to cram his brain full of more information. He was really just trying to kind of not think about the debate. But, you know, to Athena's comments, you know, the campaign isn't going to be decided tonight, but in some cases this is, you know, when candidates fall.

BALDWIN: Right.

GAGE: I mean this was when Rick Perry, you know, really, you know, sort of, you know, saw his demise -

BALDWIN: Right.

GAGE: Back in the 2012 campaign and he never really recovered even in this campaign. So it's not going to be won tonight -

[14:05:03] BALDWIN: But it could be a loss. It could be a loss.

GAGE: But there - there could be - there could be a candidate that loses tonight because they stumble.

AMANDA CARPENTER, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: And that plays into a little bit of what Marco Rubio said in his walk-up in that interview, saying it's a long game. I think that's the wrong approach at this moment in time. You look at the debate schedule, the CNN debate is so important tonight because after this, there's only four more debates, number one. This is also the only time that Republicans have complete attention on their debate. Then we're going to go into the Democratic debates. It will be Thanksgiving, Christmas season, winter and then, bam, February 1st primaries. And so I think this, if you have to do the dirty work of taking down Donald Trump, now is the time.

BALDWIN: This is it. I am so glad you brought that up.

CARPENTER: (INAUDIBLE) so much harder to do later.

BALDWIN: Listen, I was a huge nerd and sat and watched the entire last debate and there was an initial tune-in factor, and it was a mega tune-in factor. I mean I think it was like 24 million people. But now you have the other people post-Labor Day waking up, seeing what's happening, and add to that what I find fascinating, and I don't know if you've wandered around that stage, how totally inmate it is.

RESTON: Yes. Totally.

BALDWIN: And how will maybe a jab or an insult really resonate and ring loud in that pavilion.

RESTON: Yes, I mean, it's so intimate and there are some candidates that - who have a real strength in that - with that kind of audience, connecting with voters in the moment (ph).

BALDWIN: Like who?

RESTON: Well, I mean, obviously Fiorina -

BALDWIN: Put you on the spot.

RESTON: Fiorina, Rubio actually does really well in that kind of setting. But we also have to remember that often the moments that become the big moments of the debate are really framed in the aftermath. You know, Gerald Ford's big mistake in his debate, in the moment, the focus groups didn't actually see it as a huge mistake, but later on, as the media narrative went around, you know, that's how the coverage can kind of sway the way people think about these candidates.

BALDWIN: And also it's nuts, and we'll talk to Dan Pfeiffer about this later, he says those first 20 minutes, boom, on social media, I mean that really sets the tone.

RESTON: Yes.

BALDWIN: It really sets the tone.

To you, Katie, who is your wildcard?

GAGE: Well, I think that there is a real opportunity for Carly tonight. You know, she was somebody that was in the second-tier debate last time. This is an opportunity for her to speak to the prime-time audience, many of whom have never seen or heard from her before. And, you know, she's really going to be looking to make her mark. Donald Trump, you know, has said some disparaging things to her. Some, you know, things that I would call very sexist - BALDWIN: Yes.

GAGE: And I think she's going to have an opportunity to respond and in some ways sort of speak for women and kind of push back on him. So she'll make a move tonight. Huge opportunity for her.

BALDWIN: She - she's been, you know, entirely classy. But, ladies, sometimes when we bang our fists on a table, we're not always perceived as strong. It's a "b" word we won't use on TV.

CARPENTER: Hillary Clinton could tell you a lot about that, right?

BALDWIN: There you go. So how do you thread that needle?

CARPENTER: (INAUDIBLE) Carly Fiorina and, yes, pushing back on these sexist attacks that come at her, but not making that so she's defined as the woman candidate. She's done such a good job of walking that line and responding to it but not letting it take over her campaign.

BALDWIN: Who's your wild card?

CARPENTER: The wildcard for me is really the governors as a group. I think the most interesting subtext going into this debate is the collective collapse of the governors. It you look at some of these latest polls, if you add up all the governors, they have - they've polled collectively fewer points than Ben Carson alone. And so will there be a point -

BALDWIN: Jeb Bush, Kasich, Huckabee -

CARPENTER: And Perry. You can count the 1 percent that he had before it took it with him with his exit. But before this all ramped up in the debate season, a lot of the governors were saying that executive experience was a necessary qualification to be president. I'm wondering if they will once again circle the wagons on that or if they've just abandoned that completely with the rise of Donald Trump.

RESTON: It's the wrong night for those guys to recite their resumes. Nobody wants to hear about it.

CARPENTER: Absolutely.

BALDWIN: Again, eight out of 10 Americans want change in Washington.

Final thoughts from you. I think we would be remiss in not talking about Ben Carson, who really will be - I think it will be a fascinating juxtaposition because he is physically standing next to Donald Trump.

RESTON: Right.

BALDWIN: They could not be more different.

RESTON: Right.

BALDWIN: They're the top two in the double digits. RESTON: Right.

BALDWIN: But, you know, tone wise, they couldn't be more different. He says he doesn't want to get into a gladiator fight, but the American people want somebody who will stand up for what he or she believes. Tapper wants a debate. How does he do that?

RESTON: But the most fascinating thing about Ben Carson is, having gone to some of his rallies last week, for example, is a lot of the people in the audience liked Trump at first and then moved to Carson because they liked that sort of quieter, more thoughtful persona that he had. And so it will be really interesting to see if he can kind of capitalize on that, have some good lines in there, look tough against Trump but also kind of keep those people that are moving from Trump to him. And I think that's his challenge tonight.

BALDWIN: OK, Maeve and Katie and Amanda, thank you all so much. I love this. We should postgame tomorrow. Thank you so much. And, please, make sure you tune in tonight for the first of the two debates. The first one begins at 6:00 Eastern and the main event with 11 candidates squeezed on that stage, 8:00 Eastern, right here on CNN.

Coming up next, the rules. Hear what these candidates are allowed to actually physically bring with them on stage. You may be surprised by something they can't have with them.

[14:10:00] Also, listen, this is about how they appear. About the physicality. About body language. We'll talk to an expert on the strengths and weaknesses of these certain candidates. And one of them has an issue with his finger.

And you think being a candidate is stressful right about now? How about being the moderator? We'll talk live with someone who has had to referee one of these debates. We'll try to understand perhaps what our friend and colleague Jake Tapper may be going through right now as he's been working on these questions. I can tell you, they're still tweaking them hours ahead of time, making them fresh, making them resonate with the Americans. Do not miss this. Live pictures inside the debate hall here at the Reagan Presidential Library in Simi Valley, California. I'm Brooke Baldwin. We'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[14:15:07] BALDWIN: And you're looking at some pictures that we've just turned around for you of Governor Jeb Bush just arriving here at the Reagan Presidential Library, walking in. There's Athena Jones trying to grab him. He continues on. And we will watch for him as each of these candidates get just about 15 minutes to walk around, get familiar with the debate stage at this pavilion.

We just saw Governor Pataki. He was the last to do the walk-through. We'll be watching for those pictures from Jeb Bush, just getting familiar with really what's at stake tonight. A big, big night ahead for all of these guys and gal.

Donald Trump, by the way, he says he doesn't play by the rules when it comes to politics, but with 11 candidates taking the stage at tonight's debate, there will definitely be several ground rules they all have to follow. For one, each candidate will be given a pen and paper and a glass of water. No phones. No tablets. No notes. And the distribution of talking time here is so crucial.

So let's bring in our executive editor of CNN Politics, who's been working around the clock ahead of tonight, Mark Preston.

And, you know, Jake Tapper and a couple of others have essentially, including you, have been hiding out in a secret room going over these questions. You hear Tapper over and over again saying, you know, this is about a debate. I want to hear these candidates really chew on these issues. How does - how does - will tonight really differ?

MARK PRESTON, CNN POLITICS EXECUTIVE EDITOR: You know, and I think it's interesting how Jake has really put it out there. You know, we're not looking for speeches. This isn't a candidate forum. This isn't an interview that you would do with one of these candidates. This is to try to find, you know, contrasting positions between these candidates so that viewers and voters can actually make a decision about whether they want to support one Republican over another in the Republican primary.

BALDWIN: I'm looking at you and I'm listening to you, but I'm also looking at Jeb Bush out of the corner of my eye here on the stage being walked through. Can you tell me, what are they really taking in when they're standing there behind the podium, familiarizing themselves with their positioning? What's so key right now in the couple of hours ahead of time?

PRESTON: Well, I mean, look, even before this occurred today and is happening right now, their staff came yesterday. We took them all through the facility, took them up on the stage, showed them where their candidate would be. They all took pictures, taking notes, figuring out distances between podiums, go back, delivered that to the candidate. To bring the candidate here today, this is the first time these candidates have seen the stage. So can you imagine being in front of this audience right now at such a crucial moment and having never seen the stage.

So you see Jeb Bush standing there looking straightforward, trying to figure it out. You know, there's a funny anecdote.

BALDWIN: What's that?

PRESTON: That there was a note that was left by Mitt Romney for Herman Cain during the walk-throughs. I mean we - we never said what it was and quite frankly I forget what it is right now, but he left it on his podium, which I thought was - which was a very humorous moment.

BALDWIN: So there could be notes left -

PRESTON: Back on 2011.

BALDWIN: In the candidates' campaign trailers, which I had a moment to walk through. So as we keep our eye here on the screen, and, again, we'll keep

seeing these candidates walking through for the next couple of hours, so much attention paid, obviously, on this 8:00 Eastern debate, these 11 men - 10 men, one woman on the stage. But the debate ahead of time with the four, what - you know, who are they debating, the other three on the stage, or are they bringing in the other candidates who will be, you know, on later on? What's their strategy?

PRESTON: Yes, you know, there's been so much focus on Donald Trump and has been for the past six weeks or so, two months or so. Carly Fiorina now, who came out of this smaller debate and did so well in the polls since August that she catapulted to the main debate. But look it, this is a very serious time for these four candidates. I mean these are all folks who have held elective office, governors or senators. You know, and certainly, you know, one is a sitting governor, one's a sitting senator. It's important for them because the likes of Lindsey Graham, or former Senator Rick Santorum or Governor Bobby Jindal, this is their opportunity to try to get a little of that oxygen back. They need a little bit of life in their campaign. And, you know what, you only have to go back to 2011 and look at Rick Santorum who had no money and basically won the Iowa caucuses. He won the Iowa caucuses. Tim Pawlenty, in 2011, he got out too early. You know, hindsight being what it is, a lot of people thought he should have stayed in.

BALDWIN: No one knew ahead of the last debate with those five coming up on that stage that Carly Fiorina would have what we could dub the fury (ph) in a moment. So we'll be looking to see, obviously, who shines like that this evening.

Thank you so much, sir. We'll let you get back to all of your work here ahead of this debate just a couple of hours away.

Next, as we continue to look at these live pictures, watching those different candidates arrive here at the Ronald Reagan Presidential Library in California, getting a lay of the land, touring the stage, something we will all definitely be watching for tonight is how these candidates standing behind those podiums really react to one another in close, close quarters. Coming up next, let's talk to a body language expert. What are the dos, the don'ts for these candidates ahead of tonight's huge night. Stay here.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[14:24:21] BALDWIN: Between Carly Fiorina and Donald Trump, Chris Christie, Rand Paul, definitely expect some combative exchanges this evening on the big stage. But what could be equally as important is what they don't say, what they show to the millions who will be watching. My next guest is a body language expert who says whether they realize it or not, viewers pay attention to these details. So Patti Wood joins me from Atlanta.

Patti, so great to have you on. You know, listen, it's television, it's a visual medium and body language absolutely matters.

PATTI WOOD, BODY LANGUAGE EXPERT: Right.

BALDWIN: Can we - let's just begin, your assessments on several of these candidates beginning with Donald Trump and his finger.

WOOD: Oh, yes! Oh, yes! That wonderful aggressive weapon-like pointing. He also adds the chopping motion. He chops the other candidates to pieces. He also does that in a forward motion. So all of that together is very aggressive. He goes right towards us.

[14:25:11] And in some way that can be appealing to us because we want that alpha candidate. That grimacing, all that growling like a lion, can appeal to us. Isn't that odd? Isn't that interesting?

BALDWIN: OK, no growling. No chopping. What about - what about Jeb Bush?

WOOD: Jeb Bush keeps those shoulders too tight to his body, not up body language that shows power and confidence and happiness. Instead, we have that unfortunate puppy head tilt. Is this OK? Is what I'm saying OK? And that halting speech. Not good.

BALDWIN: Ben Carson.

WOOD: Ben Carson. Now, he could be the lion tamer tonight because he's a very likeable candidate, but he before has held his head back, very turtle-like, been fearful, but he - he can smile and use some of that humor and be less supplication body language and more forceful, forward body language, looking honest, that could work for him.

BALDWIN: What about the sole female on stage, Carly Fiorina?

WOOD: Actually, she's got a nice advantage because for a lot of people they might not really know her. She has a fresh image to present. He's also got a beautiful, low resonant voice, the anti-Hillary, and she has something else that I want you to look for in all the candidates tonight because it shows honesty. Her gestures go along with what she says. It's called feel, show, say. It says that she believes what she says. Very interesting. A lot of candidates have memorized portions of their speech so they say it, then they gesture. Our limbic brain reads that as dishonest. She, on the other hand, looks very authentic when she speaks.

BALDWIN: What about the fact that, you know, presumably you will have jabs, counter punches. I'm wondering, what is to each of these candidates' advantage to work the camera, to respond by looking that candidate on stage in the eye, to use the audience? What's the best tactic?

WOOD: Actually, they might take two separate different tactics that can work for them. Sometimes it's best to be very aggressive and look the other candidate in the eye and actually show your disgust or displeasure with what they're saying, show your disrespect. Or you can take another tactic, and that is to look with honor and respect to the other candidates, show intent listening so you have a presidential air about you. Both tactics can work. It just depends.

BALDWIN: How do you look presidential? Final question, Patti.

WOOD: Oh, oh - BALDWIN: What is a presidential look physically speaking?

WOOD: Very up body language, open, and forward. Power is communicated by the amount of space you take up, whether your body language is open rather than closed and whether you're relaxed rather than tense. Look for that.

BALDWIN: This is fascinating. It 100 percent matters to people watching at home. Patti Wood, thank you very much.

WOOD: My pleasure.

BALDWIN: We'll see how they do.

Coming up next, as we're waiting for each candidate to arrive to get the lay of the land here at the Reagan Library to see what the podium feels like, how close they'll be to members of the audience, much more intimate this time, just about 500 people. We will be speaking live with T. Boone Pickens, an early endorser of Jeb Bush. What can Jeb Bush do to really bounce back tonight? This is CNN's special live coverage. We'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)