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Ted Cruz Arrives for Debate; Interview with T. Boone Pickens; Interview with Doris Kearns Goodwin. Aired 2:30-3p ET

Aired September 16, 2015 - 14:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[14:32:59] BROOKE BALDWIN, CNN ANCHOR: We want to come out live here. I'm Brooke Baldwin at the Reagan presidential library here in California. We've been showing you different candidates have been rolling through every couple of minutes to get the lay of the land.

Let's actually dip in. Here is Senator Ted Cruz talking to my colleague, Athena Jones.

SEN. TED CRUZ, (R), TEXAS & PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: The debates just quietly with my family. I spent some time reading the Bible, spent some time just reviewing policy materials and thinking and getting centered.

ATHENA JONES, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Here we go. Last question. What's your goal? How are you going to make an impression tonight?

CRUZ: My focus is very much the same as it was in the first debate, which is to continue my positive, optimistic, conservative message. There's a real contrast on that debate stage between people who are campaign conservatives who talk a good game on the trail but haven't walked the walk and a consistent conservative. And I think the reason coming out of the last debate why our support exploded was because people are looking for a consistent conservative who's the same yesterday, today and tomorrow. I think there may be a lot of 5 works tonight. You may see a lot of candidates going after each other. I don't intend to be one of them. I intend to be continually focusing on my message.

JONES: Thanks a lot. Good luck.

Thank you.

BALDWIN: Athena Jones and Senator Cruz, thank you both so much.

We have lots of cameras, I can promise, you at this debate stage who will be watching to see Senator Cruz as we've seen other candidates preceding him walking around, seeing how close the different podiums are, seeing how intimate the setting is. We'll keep an eye on that.

I do want to move on because before what we'll call the summer of Trump one man was labeled as an early front runner, Jeb Bush. But when you look at the latest polling, my, how things have clanged. He's obviously hoping to change that this evening going into the debate. The political heavyweight not even if you look at the latest polling not polling in the top three. A new poll out specifically from New Hampshire shows the pressure may be on the establishment candidates who are seeing dramatic drops. Jeb Bush in single favorites, along with fast favorites, Scott Walker, Rand Paul, all the way down the list to Chris Christie.

So joining me now I have T. Boone Pickens, a Jeb Bush supporter, a Republican's Republican.

Thank you so much, Mr. Pickens. Nice to meet you.

[14:35:16] T. BOONE PICKENS, BUSINESS MAGNATE: You know, I have never voted for a Democrat for president.

BALDWIN: Since 1948, I read.

PICKENS: That's right.

BALDWIN: There you go. I do my homework.

Sir, let me begin you, here we are in this beautiful library. You played a pivot al -- you have to imagine that these candidates and we've seen some of this already will try to out-Reagan one another tonight on that stage.

PICKENS: That's beautiful, though, that here you have Ronald Reagan, and everybody, Democrats -- no Democrats are there, I understand. But they even try to relate to him. The Democrats do. Every one of the Republicans will try to.

BALDWIN: Knowing the president as you did, what do you think he would think of this crop of candidates?

PICKENS: Oh, I think he --

(CROSSTALK)

BALDWIN: Because he was Mr. Optimism.

PICKENS: Oh, yeah. I think he would like it. I think he would. He would especially like it because it's here at the Reagan library. You know, this is the number-one library, presidential library.

BALDWIN: It's the only place with a president's Air Force One.

PICKENS: The executive director is phenomenal.

BALDWIN: We have to talk about your man who you jumped in and endorsed.

PICKENS: I'm ready.

BALDWIN: Before he even jumped in the race, Jeb Bush. We talked about the polls. How does he bring the fire tonight to change the way the direction the polls have been going?

PICKENS: Well, he's -- I'm always with the Bushes. How many have there been?

BALDWIN: There have been a few. I don't know if America wants another one. Some don't.

PICKENS: I know every one of them, supported every one of them. Jeb, I want him to -- it's kind of like he's running in molasses. It's a little bit -- I want him to pick --

BALDWIN: Sticky.

PICKENS: I want to pick up the pace.

BALDWIN: I don't know if you've talked to him on the phone recently, but what advice would you give him? How do you remove the molasses?

PICKENS: I think you'll see it.

BALDWIN: Is it in him?

PICKENS: Yes, I think it is. It is in him, of course. The guy's -- he's smart, no question. Governor of Florida. He has the experience. He knows what he's doing. He's lowered taxes, all the things that people in America want to see now. They don't want higher taxes. And I think Jeb's ready to go. I think you'll see him at a faster rate.

BALDWIN: Will you be jumping on the phone with him before tonight?

PICKENS: No. I won't talk to him.

BALDWIN: You won't.

PICKENS: No. We're through talking before this debate tonight.

BALDWIN: As I mentioned, since Tom Dewey in 1948 you've been voting Republican.

PICKENS: Ever since.

BALDWIN: So when you look at some of these ads and even Jeb Bush has been attacking Donald Trump for essentially being a Democrat in Republican's clothing, who do you think seems like the most Republican Jeb Bush aside?

PICKENS: You know, we've got some pretty good -- I'm a Carly fan.

BALDWIN: You like Carly Fiorina?

PICKENS: Oh, yeah.

BALDWIN: What do you like about her?

PICKENS: Well, she's smart, and she's had experience. She's --

(CROSSTALK)

BALDWIN: Kind of sassy. PICKENS: She didn't have any problem in the last debate, if you

remember.

BALDWIN: She shone in that last debate. That's why she's in this one.

PICKENS: She ran out and hid from them, she was so far out in front. That could happen tonight. I've got two horses in there. I've got Jeb and Carly. I'm going to be well represented.

BALDWIN: We'll see how they do and see if Jeb Bush can get rid of that molasses.

T. Boone Pickens, thank you so much for your time.

PICKENS: Sure.

BALDWIN: Make sure to tune in tonight for the first of those two debates beginning at 6:00 eastern and then the main attraction, the mega debate, 11 people squeezing onto that stage, starting at 8:00 p.m. eastern. A much different debate, much more intimate, having walked around the area. I can tell you, you have to tune in.

Coming up next, in the last election, Mitt Romney's wealth was really considered a negative for him. But now the script has flipped. Donald Trump using his status as the rich guy as a positive. Why is it this go-around working for him? A Trump supporter and conservative who can't stand the guy will join me next to debate.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[14:44:07] BALDWIN: And welcome back. I'm Brooke Baldwin live here in Simi Valley, California. We still have a live eye here on Senator Ted Cruz, still on that debate stage touring the stage, taking a look at the lay of the land, seeing how close the podiums are from one another and really seeing the audience, much more intimate setting this go-around.

His opponent, rival, for this nomination, Donald Trump, definitely not one to hold back. He says he has no filter, including when it comes to talking about his massive wealth. Critics say the reality star CEO grandstands about how much money he makes and gets away with it. Flash back to 2012, Mitt Romney, didn't go so well for him.

But now Trump himself has admitted he could tone things down a bit.

I want you to listen to what he told the Christian Broadcasting Network about his more bombastic style.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE & CEO, TRUMP ORGANIZATION: Well, it's a tough question because you hate to say what your weaknesses are. I think I could tone it down a little bit when pressed. I think I have a great temperament. You can't build the business I have without a great temperament. I think I can maybe sometimes tone it down. When somebody hits you, you could hit a little bit less hard.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

[14:45:15] BALDWIN: Trump's fiery rhetoric often includes slaps to President Obama and how he's running the country. Well, now the president breaking his silence about the tone of the 2016 race. Here's what President Obama has just said.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Despite the perennial doom and gloom that I guess is part of a presidential campaign, America is winning right now. America is great right now. We can do even better.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: Joining me, they're back, Scotties Hughes, a columnist for Townhal.com and a news director of the Tea Party Network; also with us conservative commentator and columnist, Kurt Schlechter.

You two, we love having you on together. Thank you for being on.

Scottie, we were talking about yesterday being on the plane with Donald Trump when he was headed to that Dallas, Texas, rally the other night all the way from New York. And here he was, what, last night telling CBN, all right, maybe I will tone it down a bit. My question to you, what does a toned-down Donald Trump look like?

SCOTTIE HUGHES, COLUMNIST, TOWNHALL.COM & NEWS DIRECTOR, TEA PARTY NETWORK: I think it looks like what we've already seen. I mean, you have to remember he only strikes first when somebody strikes at him. It's kind of like when you tell your kids on the playground, hey, I don't want you to pick the fight. But if somebody comes after you, I want you to end it and be the winner. That's all that Donald Trump has done. So maybe in this case he might sit there -- you know, when it comes to his wealth, the reason he's done so well is he's celebrating it. We should celebrate achievement. We've been told to be embarrassed about it. He ace celebrating it and people like to know that the American dream still exists and people can still make money in this country.

BALDWIN: Is that what it is, Kurt? We set it up. But the fact that it really didn't work for Romney, his affluence. It was really perceived as a negative. But it's working for Donald Trump. Scottie says he's celebrating it. Is it more than that?

KURT SCHLECHTER, CONSERVATIVE COLUMNIST & COMMENTATOR: No. You know, Brooke, I love that Donald Trump is rich. I think that's the only real thing I like about this guy. I mean, admittedly we started out a little different. His dad gave him a $200 million business and I started out mopping toilets at a Carl's Jr in California. My concern about --

(CROSSTALK)

BALDWIN: A slight difference.

SCHLECHTER: -- does he understand small business owners like me? Does he understand people who aren't billionaires --

(CROSSTALK)

SCHLECHTER: -- but kind of want to be millionaires.

HUGHES: Absolutely, Kurt. And I'm going to go with that.

BALDWIN: Scottie, respond to that.

HUGHES: Kurt, the difference to that is he hasn't always had it easy, as his opponents will point out. His businesses have taken a tank. His father told him, don't go invest in New York City and Trump said, nope, I'm going to go out on my own. I'm going to do it. It worked for him. The biggest difference is Trump built it. He was not afraid to put his name on it. Romney never did. Romney joined in an already set organization. He did grow his wealth, but it was never named Romney and Company or Romney Consulting. That's of the difference between the two. Trump is not afraid.

(CROSSTALK)

BALDWIN: But Bobby Jindal would say this is being narcissistic.

HUGHES: But maybe we need -- it's not necessarily narcissistic. It's pride in accomplishment. That's what Americans need to feel. We need to be proud that if we work hard as Donald Trump has done, nobody can say Bush hasn't worked hard to get where is he, that we can actually achieve success.

Kurt, I'm sorry, I think you can still become a millionaire starting out at Carl's Jr is probably the best training we could have provided you.

SCHLECHTER: Well, I agree with that, Scottie.

(CROSSTALK)

SCHLECHTER: Being a private in the Army was great, too.

HUGHES: I completely agree.

BALDWIN: Hang on. Let me move along from Carl's Jr and mopping floors to substance, the issues.

(LAUGHTER)

We know Jake Tapper wants to moderate the debate. He wants to get everyone into the nitty-gritty. We've heard Donald Trump saying, essentially, yes, I will share how I plan to attack things, and, yes, I will share my substance eventually. I was talking to my executive producer. It's almost like, you know, is it almost like somebody apply for a job and telling the potential employer, I've got this, I will get this, I'll figure it out when I get the job? HUGHES: Well, let me say this --

(CROSSTALK)

SCHLECHTER: It's exactly like that, Brooke. Brooke, the problem with Donald Trump isn't his policies. It's his policies change from day to day. I don't know if he's for defunding Planned Parenthood or not.

(CROSSTALK)

SCHLECHTER: I don't know if he likes Common Core or not. He changes and changes all the time. I want a committed ideological conservative who's been a conservative for decades. Not a guy who's just kind of coming around, after six years ago, voting for Barack Obama. I can't get that out of my head, Brooke. He voted for Barack Obama. How do you call yourself a Republican and do that?

HUGHES: Here's the thing --

(CROSSTALK)

[14:49:58] HUGHES: But Donald Trump is a smart person.

BALDWIN: Go ahead, Scottie.

HUGHES: He's a smart person. He's not stupid. Do you not think he doesn't have this plan? I guarantee he has this planned. However, Jeb Bush released his economic plan last week. Name me one or two points of it. Rand Paul a month ago. Nobody knows about it. Nobody is talking about it. Yet here we are on CNN, the biggest day of the year of the election cycle for CNN, talking about Donald Trump's economic plan. It's smart. It's called strategy. It's something we've been lacking within the GOP for the past few years.

[14:50:29] BALDWIN: To be fair --

(CROSSTALK)

There's one guy putting out a plan.

BALDWIN: -- some of the folks we mentioned, we did, we did, we have.

And, Scottie Hughes and Kurt Schlechter, we've got to go. I'm sure we'll chat tomorrow.

Kurt, you've come a long way from mopping toilets.

(LAUGHTER)

Thank you two so much.

(LAUGHTER)

SCHLECHTER: Thanks.

BALDWIN: When we come back here. SCHLECHTER: I did build that.

BALDWIN: When we come back, as we await the arrival of the next candidate here, I cannot wait to talk to Pulitzer Prize wining historian, Doris Kearns Goodwin, why she thinks today's current crop of Republican candidates are a lot like some presidential candidates we have seen before. We'll discuss that and so much more.

Keep it right here. This is CNN's special live coverage.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[14:55:29] You're watching CNN. I'm Brooke Baldwin. Thank you so much for being with me.

The excitement is palpable. We're just hours from the first debate here on CNN. I can tell you three outsiders are the front-runners in this most recent GOP poll. You have a brain surgeon, a fired CEO, and a reality TV star. Has there ever been such a lineup?

For answers, I'm so thrilled to have her on, presidential historian and Pulitzer Prize-winning author, dories Kearns Goodwin.

Thank you so much for joining me.

DORIS KEARNS GOODWIN, AUTHOR & BIOGRAPHER & HISTORIAN: Oh, you're welcome, Brooke.

BALDWIN: I mean, you just heard the setup of those three outsiders. Have you ever seen that kind of crop of candidates dominating seasoned politicians like this before?

KEARNS GOODWIN: I have not. I mean, clearly there have been other times when there were outsiders. In 1940, Wendell Wilke was a business candidate, Ross Perot, went pretty far. Mitt Romney was a business candidate. But the fact non-politicians and people without political experience are on top of the world right now, Reagan, think about the library we were in, yes, he had been an actor, but he was governor of California.

So he brought lots of political experience. I think it says something about the political system today. I think it says something about campaign finance which I'd love them to talk about tonight because people feel the system is so broken and somehow Trump is above all that because he's spending his own money. But in a democracy to not have respect for your politicians and people who have given their life -- you said there's a lot of anxiety.

It's a big deal. These people are putting themselves forward. I still in a democracy think you have to have respect for people who want to become politicians. When they become a dirty word as they have now, it shows we're upside down in our democracy as a system.

BALDWIN: Speaking of the front-runners here, Donald Trump, I was reading some of the notes you told one of our producers. He had an interesting observation as someone who is a presidential historian of what you think when you watch Donald Trump on TV. What was that?

KEARNS GOODWIN: Well, you know, I think the thing is that what he's doing is he's able to undo as people have said all the normal wisdom about not attacking your opponents in a time when people don't like attack politics, saying things that are mean-spirited, and yet people don't get mad at him. They get mad at the person. I still think tonight we've got to look for temperamental qualities in these candidates, even more than what they say in substance. Do they have grace under pressure? Do they have respect? Do they show empathy beyond people they know themselves?

BALDWIN: Even you admitted from, what I understand, when Donald Trump speaks, you listen.

KEARNS GOODWIN: No, that's the thing. There is this sense of what's he going to say next? There's an excitement about it. He does have that bravado and self-confidence. And h projects something when he's out there. I admit, too, at first I thought, oh, no, then I want to watch. Everybody is watching. Look at the excitement it's building toward tonight. Part of it, what will Trump say? What will he do?

BALDWIN: With regard to Ronald Reagan because he would be remiss not no ask you about him, sitting here on such hallowed ground, his willingness to negotiate, his principles, his ability to compromise with rivals. Do you see any of those qualities in these candidates?

KEARNS GOODWIN: Well, so far, it's been hard to see them talking with each other in that same way. You want them to be able to look at each other, respect each other. I think the interesting thing about tonight is we're sure they're all going to talk about Ronald Reagan as a political daddy, which he has been for an entire generation of Republicans, just as FDR was for an entire generation of Democrats. That's a pretty remarkable thing that Reagan did, not only his presidency, but he's created the people behind him who want to be like him. And I think they could learn a lot from his temperament, character and grace under pressure.

BALDWIN: You know who no one really has been talking about, at least as much on television, who I keep wondering about, is Nancy Reagan. I was asking some people here at the library about her. They told me she lives here in southern California. She's 94. She's as smart as ever. I don't actually know if she'll be here this evening. But how is she doing?

KEARNS GOODWIN: You know, I wish I knew, too. There was something about that relationship between those two -- you know, people talk about, what do first ladies accomplish substantively? But most importantly, what do you do in terms of stability and love and pride and confidence in your guy? In this case, since it's only been the guy.