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Crowded GOP Field Faces Critical Show Downs; Mike Huckabee Arrives for Debate; Interview with Rand Paul. Aired 1:30-2p ET

Aired September 16, 2015 - 13:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[13:30:00] JEFFREY LORD, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: And I thought that the Marco Rubio's comment was interesting is because what he is saying here is whatever happen happens, I'm sticking in this, and I am not going to be pushed out and --

(CROSSTALK)

WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: Don't they always say that?

LORD: Well, they always say it, but I mean that there is going to be some pressure on people after tonight for their performance.

BLITZER: And who do you think is going to drop out next?

LORD: Well, I wish I had the answer to that, Wolf, and I could make some money.

(CROSSTALK)

JENNIFER GRANHOLM, (D), FORMER MICHIGAN GOVERNOR & POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: And Marco signaled he is in it for the long haul and he is not going to be taking direct shots at Donald Trump tonight.

ALEX CASTELLANOS, FOUNDER, NEWREPUBLICAN.ORG & CO-FOUNDER, PURPLE STRATEGIES: And the best announcement speech that any Republican candidate has given so far is Marco Rubio comparing himself to Hillary Clinton saying that yesterday's candidate announced she was going to run for president to take us back to yesterday, and yesterday is over, and we are never going back, and we are going to be making America great again.

(CROSSTALK)

JEFF ZELENY, CNN SENIOR WASHINGTON CORRESPONDENT: And I spent a lot of time with the Clinton campaign, and if Marco Rubio would break out, that is one person who worries them as a general election nominee because of the contrast of the future and the past. And, yes, they believe he is extreme, and he has a lean and mean campaign. And he can go longer than others, because the overhead is lower, and I do think he's in it for the long haul.

(CROSSTALK)

BLITZER: And there is Marco Rubio, the Senator from Florida, and he is behind the podium over there where he is going to be in the prime time debate tonight.

There is a lot going on, and I must say behind the scenes here at the Ronald Reagan Presidential Library. 11 candidates in the prime time debate and the second-tier debate that starts at 6:00 p.m., and four presidential candidates will have a feeling of the room here, if you will. And it is a much more intimate room than the first debate where there were thousands of people in the audience. This one has 500 people in the audience, and it is going to be in the austere setting here, if you will, right behind Air Force One.

It is going to have an impact, don't you believe, Jennifer?

GRANHOLM: Well, the setting lends itself to such gravitas, but the circumstances mean that each of the candidates that is not Donald Trump has to want to see somebody taking him down. Now, if they sit back and watch the others do it, they will be accused of being wimps. If they step up, they have a risk of being hit back at Donald Trump. But for them, this is a high stakes' game. I think people want to see candidates who are willing to punch a little bit and see a little bit of a difference.

(CROSSTALK)

BLITZER: Well, they are all --

(CROSSTALK)

GRANHOLM: But you can't overstep.

(CROSSTALK)

GRANHOLM: Especially in this setting.

BLITZER: Right. And they are all going to be punching. But they are going to be trying to punch against, Hillary Clinton.

(CROSSTALK)

GRANHOLM: But that doesn't take Trump down.

BLITZER: And they are going to be talking about President Obama. But then they will mention Obama/Clinton almost in the same breath. That is the strategy.

(CROSSTALK)

GRANHOLM: And that is a wasted opportunity for them, don't you think?

CASTELLANOS: No, I think they have to mention it. We will be getting it on in the future here.

GRANHOLM: Sure. Sure.

CASTELLANOS: And someone on the stage is going to be the Republican nominee, and -- GRANHOLM: But in terms of the position right now, don't you believe it is a wasted opportunity if they only attack Hillary Clinton and don't try to take the others on?

CASTELLANOS: Another way to look at it is that this is not a friendly environment for Donald Trump. This is part of the establishment's process to pick a nominee. This is a whole process designed by the insiders for the insiders. Trump does better as the outsider speaking to the large crowd. I would not expect Trump to do particularly well tonight.

LORD: He is at the ultimate outsider's library tonight.

(LAUGHTER)

BLITZER: Well, they are all going to be going after Hillary Clinton.

And, by the way, tomorrow, we will get Hillary Clinton's reaction to what is happening. I'll speak with her live tomorrow at 5:00 p.m. eastern in "The Situation Room." We'll get her live reactions to what is happening tonight. That is happening with the Democratic front- runner tomorrow night when we will get her reaction.

We'll take a quick break. Much more from the Ronald Reagan Presidential Library, setting the scene for tonight's historic debate, right after this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[13:38:10] BLITZER: Mike Huckabee, the former Arkansas governor, has just arrived here at the Ronald Reagan Presidential Library. And you can see him getting out of the car and welcomed by officials, including John Heubusch, the president of the Ronald Reagan Library Foundation and commission.

And this is Athena Jones questioning him as he arrives at the library. Let's listen in.

MIKE HUCKABEE, (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE & FORMER ARKANSAS GOVERNOR: And, John, it is good to see you. You look terrific, and I would like to see that you are 100 percent now.

JOHN HEUBASCH, DIRECTOR, RONALD REAGAN LIBRARY FOUNDATION: And like you, I lost weight.

HUCKABEE: That's not a good way to do it.

(LAUGHTER)

There are better ways to get this done. That's probably not what you want to do. I don't think you want to write a book about that.

HEUBASCH: Yes, the long way.

HUCKABEE: But it's great to be here. Thank you.

And hello, little girl, how are you?

ATHENA JONES, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Governor Huckabee, hi. Athena Jones from CNN.

HUCKABEE: Hi, Athena.

JONES: Are you ready.

HUCKABEE: And why would CNN be here, by the way?

(LAUGHTER)

I cannot imagine.

JONES: Are you ready for the big event?

HUCKABEE: Well, we will find out in about six hours, something like that.

JONES: You're ready, right?

HUCKABEE: It's too late not to be ready.

JONES: And what do you do to prepare?

HUCKABEE: I look over stuff. One thing I do is I don't watch any television, and on game day, I don't get my head cluttered up with the stuff that you say, and the pre-game analysis and focus on the game and not what people are saying it is going to be.

JONES: And otherwise, you will psyche yourself out, and what is the goal the night?

HUCKABEE: To keep from having one of the moments that sends me back home with no place to go tomorrow.

JONES: And so you don't want to mess up. And you think that you will be able to break through?

HUCKABEE: Well, it depends upon the time that you give me. And the people on the stage, and keep it fair and divide the time up equally and don't make it a one or two candidate show, then I have a real shot, and all of us have to be concerned that it is like the tv coverage has been like the past few weeks and so unbelievably centered on one candidate, and that is going to be hard for us, and so hopefully, everybody is going to be playing it as a straight debate and really give every candidate the opportunity to get the message out.

[13:40:18] JONES: Well, we are looking forward to hearing from you. Thanks.

HUCKABEE: Thank you.

JONES: All right. BLITZER: So there he is, Mike Huckabee, outside a few minutes ago,

and now he is inside of the hall. And these are live pictures. And he is going to be getting a taste of what he is anticipating, standing behind the podium, and see what is going on, and look behind the audience and see where the moderator, Jake Tapper, is going to be sitting, and other questioners will be sitting, Dana Bash, Hugh Hewitt, and they will be asking questions as well, and get a little sense of the important room.

Mike Huckabee did really, really well in 2008 and not well enough and did not get the nomination, but he won several important states.

And, Jeff Zeleny, you remember that campaign well at the time, and he did not run in 2012, but now he is are running again.

ZELENY: He is running again now, and he, of course, won the Iowa caucuses, and came from nowhere really, and certainly shocked, you know, John McCain and others, but this is a different moment for governor Huckabee, because he is trying to find his lane and is so much more competition from Ted Cruz and Rand Paul and others not around then, and this is a different time for him, and governor Huckabee is going to be there for the long haul, because he has a shoestring campaign, but it is hard to know how he is going to be competing with people like Ben Carson, people who weren't around then, and some people like new faces.

CASTELLANOS: And one of the mysteries is why somebody like Huckabee, who is a governor and who can talk economics, and an optimistic guy, has narrowed to the evangelical lane when he can tell a much more appealing story across the lanes.

GRANHOLM: And he is amazing to me, because he is likable guy, and plays in a band, and -- we served together, and he is one of my favorite governor pals, and I have been surprised at how he has hued to a narrow part of the base when he could have been much better.

(CROSSTALK)

BLITZER: And one thing that I want to get your thought on this, Jeffrey, because you a Donald Trump supporter, and he is a celebrity and the TV experience. But Mike Huckabee had a TV show many years after losing after 2008 on FOX News, and he is a TV star. And John Kasich had a TV show, and I was making some lists, and Rick Santorum was a FOX News contributor, and Ben Carson, and these guys. And not just like Trump is not the only one, in other words, who has at lot of TV experience, and a lot of the Republican candidates have seen them on TV for a while.

GRANHOLM: They need to be CNN guys, right?

(LAUGHTER)

LORD: I think "The Apprentice," with the entertainment nature and the showmanship, is different from being a talk news commentator or even a FOX News host like John Kasich was. There's different things required of you, and you are pitching to a different audience, et cetera, although, I liked the dig at CNN for all of the hours of coverage of Rick Santorum and how he thinks that it is so unfair, and you know --

(CROSSTALK)

CASTELLANOS: You should remember that the candidates need to remember that it is their job to be interesting.

LORD: That's right.

CASTELLANOS: And it is their job to be presidential and relevant. And it is our job to cover it.

GRANHOLM: And then Huckabee goes and he does that whole thing with Kim Davis forcing the rest of the field to respond to that, and that is pushing everything, again, to the right, reminding people that the presidential spate are very, very conservative.

BLITZER: Hold your thoughts.

We have a lot more coming up, including Senator Rand Paul, of Kentucky, he is standing by and he is going to be joining me live and we'll talk about the debate, the idea that he took it easy supposedly Donald Trump in round one. He is going to be going after Donald Trump tonight. And we will get some specifics from Senator Paul when we come back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[13:48:17] BLITZER: All right, there is Mike Huckabee, the former Arkansas governor, up on the stage right now getting a feel for the room, as all of the other candidates have been invited to do so, and each of them get 10 or 15 minutes to stand there and see where the audience is going to be seated and the moderators and the questioners and Air Force One behind him. And there he is, Mike Huckabee.

And meanwhile, Senator Rand Paul warmed up at a local shooting range here in California.

HUCKABEE: Well, take the left hand out here for more control, and I want you to lean more into it like a more forward aggressive stance, and put it on the shoulder, and you can see the red triangle.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes, it is on the center.

HUCKABEE: And take a shoot at the tax bill.

BLITZER: While a different shot, the U.S. tax code with an array of weapon.

And back in July, the Paul campaign released a similar video where he set 70,000 pages of the tax code on fire and then threw copies at a wood chippers and finished up by tearing through the documents with a chainsaw. He's doing something similar out here today. The tax code may have been his target today, but later tonight, in the debate, it is looking like he is going to be targeting Donald Trump. Senator Paul says that Donald Trump, quote, "deserves both barrels," and he says, quote, "I want everyone in the whole country to know that he is a fake conservative."

The Kentucky Senator Rand Paul is with me here at the Reagan Library.

(LAUGHTER)

Strong words. Explain why he is a fake conservative in your view.

[13:49:49] SEN. RAND PAUL, (R), KENTUCKY & PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Well, the fact that he is for Obama care, and the stimulus package that the president put forward, was for and the bailout of the banks, and these are things that got me motivated to run for office, and because I was opposed to them, and Donald Trump was in favor of them. And the biggest thing for the conservatives that makes him not a conservative is that he is for the governor to use eminent domain to take the property from the small property owners, to use for the government and larger corporations, and there is nobody who wants the government to use eminent domain.

BLITZER: So you are thinking that you were softer on him, and now you want to be harsher.

PAUL: Yes, a signal to him that we are coming to compete, and to compete for the presidency, that you have to be debating for ideas and you can't say you are stupid and look at that face, and it is sophomoric. And ultimately, the people in America want to know the issues and they want to know if he is conservative and on a host of issues, you can't say he is conservative.

BLITZER: And if you attack him?

PAUL: Well, he is going to insult my appearance, and that is not enough. And if you ask, well, I would tell those Chinese -- and what policy would change currently, and conservatives once they hear that he is for the higher tax, and Obama care, and using the eminent domain, they are going to be cringing at that, but people cringe at that.

BLITZER: I've watched Donald Trump over the years. I think what he's probably going to say once you go after him, is, you're a loser, Senator. You're at 1 percent, 2 percent, 3 percent, you're barely registering. I'm at tri- percent, 40 percent. The American people love me, hate you. Something like that.

PAUL: I know. But I guess the question is, I really have a greater faith in the American people than really a diatribe from a junior high school person, is really not enough to really convince people to say, oh, he should be president. In fact, it should be the opposite. I've taken to telling audiences, do you want somebody in charge of the nuclear arsenal whose biggest attribute is they can call somebody names. I think ultimately we'll get beyond it. I'm hoping tonight and CNN has said they want to get into the substance of issues. I hope that's where we go.

BLITZER: Why is he doing so well?

PAUL: People are unhappy. I ran for office because I was one of those unhappy people, unhappy at Washington. We accumulate debt at a million dollars a minute. Sure, I'm unhappy also. I guess the difference is there's unhappy with substantive proposals for making government smaller, and then there's unhappy with I'm not so sure that Trump may make government bigger because he seems to want more power for himself because he's all-powerful and thinks he can fix all problems because of this sort of narcissistic belief in himself. But I think really most conservatives want government to be smaller. I've pledged as president to give power back to the states and people and to make the presidency actually a smaller office, not a bigger office.

BLITZER: How do you get your numbers to go up?

PAUL: We hope with the debate there will be a few people watching tonight and ultimately we hope people look and scratch beyond the surface to say, who would be best to make government smaller? Who would be best to get rid of the tax code and replace it?

BLITZER: It sounds to me like you don't think Donald Trump is qualified to be president of the United States. Correct me if I'm wrong.

PAUL: I don't think so. We're seeing things that are sophomoric. I think they're silly. I just don't see anything serious about what he's proposing. When he says Mexicans will pay for the wall and then he says he's going to be tough and he's so smart because he's so rich, I don't think they always equate with each other. I think if he wants to prove to us that he's so smart, it's not because he's rich. What are the proposals he has? What are the proposals he has more America? I'm more than happy going one-on-one and let's have a debate.

BLITZER: If he's the Republican nominee, could you see yourself voting for him?

PAUL: There are some candidates I would be less enthusiastic to support. Even if I were to win with 60 percent, I need the other 40 percent who disagree with me. The winner may have 20 percent, 30 percent, maybe going through the primaries. I won't be excited about Donald Trump. I think he would cause our party to be the biggest loss since 1964. I won't be enthusiastic before, but I've said he would support the nominee.

BLITZER: You would actually not just support but vote for Donald Trump, go into the voting booth and push the lever, that he should be the next president.

PAUL: The polling booth is still secret. I've said I'll support the nominee, and I will. I'm going to do everything possible within my power over the next six months to make sure he's not the nominee. I think that would be a disaster for the country.

BLITZER: Any last-minute thing you're doing before the debate?

PAUL: They're all top secret. We have an array of things but we're not allowed to reveal.

BLITZER: Did you have fun shooting that tax code this morning? PAUL: That was fun this morning. That relieves a little stress. I'm

not cooped up in a hotel room all day.

BLITZER: Senator, thanks so much. Good luck tonight.

PAUL: Thanks.

[13:55:12] BLITZER: Thanks for joining us.

That's it for me. I'll be back 5:00 p.m. eastern in "The Situation Room."

For our international viewers, "Amanpour" is next.

For our viewers in North America, "NEWSROOM" with Brooke Baldwin will start right after a quick break.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)