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GOP Rivals Target a Milder Trump; GOP Candidates Spar Over Immigration; Fiorina Makes Splash on Main Stage; Where was Mike Huckabee? Aired 10-10:30a ET

Aired September 17, 2015 - 10:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[10:00:02] CAROL COSTELLO, CNN ANCHOR: Donald Trump tones it down and most of his GOP rivals step it up. Together they target the frontrunner in the CNN debate. But no one seems to seize control and score points like Carly Fiorina. On this morning-after, she says Americans should take notice.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CARLY FIORINA (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I hope it's pretty clear that I am a fighter. I have also been the most vocal critic of Hillary Clinton on the campaign trail, presumably the Democrat Party's nominee. This is going to be a fight. This is an important election. And we're going to have a fight about really important principles and really important policies and really important differences.

And so if you can't fight on a debate stage, then you are not going to be able to stand up and fight for the American people. And the American people are looking for a fighter because they know this is a pivotal time in our nation's history. They know these are important issues. And so yes, I'm prepared to fight.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COSTELLO: We are double-teaming our coverage from the site of the debate. CNN's Athena Jones is at the Reagan Presidential Library along with senior Washington correspondent Jeff Zeleny.

Look at you both sitting --

(LAUGHTER)

Awesome. And you look awake and everything and I know you both had a long night. So thank you so much for being with me this morning.

Jeff, I'll start with you. Winners and losers.

JEFF ZELENY, CNN SENIOR WASHINGTON CORRESPONDENT: Hey, good morning, Carol. I mean, the morning after the debate, I can tell you if there's one stock that's rising in this big Republican field, it would be the stock of Carly Fiorina. It was the first time that she was on the big debate stage, the primetime debate stage and she made the most of this opportunity.

Of course, she was introducing herself to a wide audience. People who did not -- aren't that familiar with her background, did not perhaps even know she was running for president. So she took every moment of that advantage. And she really decided to go after Donald Trump. They had a really interesting exchange on their business background, on bankruptcies, on her experience as a CEO. Let's take a listen to that.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

FIORINA: I led Hewlett-Packard through a very difficult time. The worst technology recession in 25 years.

DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: She can't run any of my companies. That I can tell you.

FIORINA: You ran up mountains of debt as well as losses using other people's money and you were forced to file for bankruptcy not once. Not twice.

TRUMP: I never filed for bankruptcy.

FIORINA: Four times. A record four times.

TRUMP: I've made over $10 billion.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ZELENY: So you did not see Carly Fiorina flinch at all in the face of Donald Trump. She did what many Republican candidates have struggled to do, in going after his flaws in his record. Of course, he brought up a few of hers as well. But it's that interesting exchange. It could reorder this Republican field. We'll see as this shapes out over the coming days.

But Carly Fiorina, without question, is going to get a second look from a lot of voters out there in those early voting states of Iowa, New Hampshire, South Carolina. She'll be campaigning there over the weekend -- Carol.

COSTELLO: And, Athena, I'm always interested to know what happens after the debate with the candidates because they all gather around and they talk to reporters, and sometimes to one another. What was that like?

ATHENA JONES, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hi, Carol. Well, I can tell you that each of the campaigns you talk to, they believe, of course, that their candidate did best. Candidate campaigns sending out e-mail blasts throughout the end of the debate and throughout the night saying that their candidate won. For instance, Marco Rubio's campaign said that he won among conservatives. They sent out a poll quote from Bill O'Reilly on FOX saying that Marco Rubio won on points. Of course Jeb Bush's campaign said that he won the night. And so that's not surprising.

One thing that was interesting among the candidates was Chris Christie. He was out there on the edge of the stage. He's been in the single digits, so he really had to make the most of what ends up being a limited amount of time for each of these candidates. And he did that from the very beginning by trying to show that he's for the people. He's for the voters. He cares more about them than he does about talking about himself. He said at the very beginning, hey, have the cameraman turn to the audience, not to me, and ask for a show of hands of people in the audience who are better off now under President Obama than before.

There was another moment when he tried to show he was the adult in the room, talking to Donald Trump and Carly Fiorina about their going back and forth. Take a listen to that.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CHRIS CHRISTIE (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I'm as entertained as anyone by this personal back and forth about the history of Donald and Carly's career. For the 55-year-old construction worker out in that audience tonight who doesn't have a job, who can't fund his child's education, I've got to tell you the truth, they could care less about your careers. They care about theirs.

You're both successful people. Congratulations. You know who's not successful? The middle class in this country who's getting plowed over by Barack Obama and Hillary Clinton. Let's start talking about those issues tonight and stop this childish back and forth between the two of you.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

JONES: So he got some applause there for that line about the childish back and forth. And going into the debate, he said this was not about a food fight. So he was clearly trying to get the message across that he's going to want to talk about issues that voters care about, not about a clash of personalities or biographies -- Carol.

[10:05:10] COSTELLO: All right. Thanks to both of you, Athena Jones, Jeff Zeleny. I appreciate you being with me this morning.

As both of our correspondents said, there was substance in the debate, foreign policy, abortion and, of course immigration. A moment. Jeb Bush pushing Donald Trump to apologize for maligning his Spanish- speaking wife.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JEB BUSH (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: You're proud of your family, just as I am.

TRUMP: Correct.

BUSH: To subject my wife into the middle of a raucous political conversation was completely inappropriate. And I hope you apologize for that, Donald.

TRUMP: Well, I have to tell you, I hear phenomenal things. I hear you wife is a lovely woman.

BUSH: She is. She's fantastic.

TRUMP: I don't know her. And this is total mischaracterization of what I said.

(CROSSTALK)

BUSH: She is absolutely the love of my life and she's right here. And why don't you apologize for her right now?

TRUMP: Good. Good. No, I won't do that because I said nothing wrong.

SEN. MARCO RUBIO (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: America doesn't have one immigration problem, it has three. First, despite the fact that we are the most generous country in the history of the world on allowing people to come here legally, we have people still coming illegally. Second, we have a legal immigration system that no longer works. It primarily is built on the basis of whether or not you have a relative living here instead of merit. And third, we have 11 million or 12 million people, many of whom have been for longer than a decade, who are already here illegally.

And we must deal with all three of these problems. We cannot deal with all three of these problems in one massive piece of legislation.

TRUMP: First of all, I want to build a wall. A wall that works. So important. And it's a big part of it. Second of all, we have a lot of really bad dudes in this country from outside. And I think Chris knows that maybe as well as anybody. They go, if I get elected, first day, they're gone.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COSTELLO: All right. So let's talk about this. Alfonso Aguilar is the executive director of Latino Partnership for Conservative Principles and former chief of the U.S. Office of Citizenship and Tara Setmayer is our CNN political commentator.

Welcome to both of you. Thank you for being here.

TARA SETMAYER, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Thank you.

ALFONSO AGUILAR, EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR, LATINO PARTNERSHIP FOR CONSERVATIVE PRINCIPLES: Thank you for having us.

COSTELLO: So -- thank you for being here. I so appreciate it. Mr. Bush's wife, she took issue with Donald Trump. She tweeted out, quote, "I came to America because I love this country. Donald Trump is wrong."

Tara, maybe she should start tweeting more.

SETMAYER: Well, I mean, this is -- she's just another victim of Donald Trump's ad hominem attacks. And I thought that that was one of the moments where Jeb Bush asserted himself in a way that was good for him. Because, you know, for Donald Trump to go after his wife seemed a little low-brow. I understand the point, what he was trying make. He's trying to rouse people up about this. But it was really unfair at that point.

And the fact that he wouldn't apologize, when he had the opportunity to kind of be the bigger person there and apologize, like, all right, maybe I didn't need to bring your wife into it. She's not running for office. He didn't. He didn't. And I think it made him look small in one of those -- another time when he just would not apologize for being obnoxious, which he was.

COSTELLO: OK. Well, let's talk a little substance right now because I want to go through what all of the candidates said, or at least some of them. So let's start with Donald Trump. He said he would deport all criminal immigrants on day one of his presidency.

Alfonso, thoughts?

AGUILAR: Well, that's ridiculous. I mean, from a policy perspective, that's just impossible. Not only is it too costly, but I think the majority -- the mass majority of law enforcement officials will tell you that that's impossible to do. And I think it's frankly un- American to round up people, many who've been here for decades, whose children are American, they're part of our community. So to say something like that is just ridiculous.

From a political perspective, I mean, it's just so offensive to Latinos. I mean, if he were the GOP nominee, he would just not get the support of Latino voters. So, again, very offensive.

COSTELLO: OK. So, Tara, Chris Christie, he said we should fingerprint all visiting immigrants so that we know when to throw them out. Thoughts?

SETMAYER: Well, I mean, let's be honest here. We're talking about the sovereignty of our country. We need to know who's coming in and we need to know who's exiting this country. I think what Chris Christie said, I mean, using the FedEx example at one point, you know, it was tongue in cheek, but we -- I don't think it's unreasonable or un-American to have -- to know who is in our country and who isn't. I mean, all we -- 9/11, did we forget about that? How those hijackers got into this country on student visas? Overstaying those things, visitor visas?

These are things that -- this part of the system where 40 percent of illegals in this country overstay their visas. This is an aspect of the illegal immigration debate that a lot of people forget. So there's nothing unreasonable about that.

COSTELLO: OK.

SETMAYER: And I think most Americans feel as though that we would like to round up and throw out criminal illegal aliens in this country, even though it's not possible to do on day one. Obviously, there's logistical issues with it.

COSTELLO: Right. SETMAYER: But I think the average American looks at that and said,

absolutely, they need to get out of here. They're illegal and committing crimes in this country, they need to go.

COSTELLO: OK. OK.

(CROSSTALK)

SETMAYER: And that resonates. That part of Donald Trump's rhetoric resonates.

COSTELLO: It does. OK. Want to get to the next one. So, Alfonso, Ben Carson said, only pristine, undocumented immigrants should stay and they should work as guest workers primarily in the agricultural fields. Thoughts?

[10:10:12] AGUILAR: Well, I don't know if he exactly said that. I mean, he has supported a guest worker program so American companies that cannot find American workers can bring in the foreign workers our economy needs. It's a conservative solution. I think it works. And under this program, he's calling for allowing people who are here illegally to get a path to legal status under this guest worker program.

And workers are needed not only agriculture, but in the hospitality industry, in construction. So I think it's a good proposal. However, there are many here who have been here for many years, decades, who are good people, who have no criminal record, and just to give them a work visa, I don't know if that's enough. I think we should definitely give them a path to legal status that goes beyond just a work visa. But let me say, his proposal is constructive and would be well-received by Latino voters.

COSTELLO: OK.

AGUILAR: So I think on this issue, Ben Carson was very constructive.

COSTELLO: OK. I want to get to Marco Rubio now, and this is for you, Tara. Marco Rubio says we should use an e-verify system to track immigrants. He was also quite effective when he spoke of his own immigrant background. So let's listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

RUBIO: I agree that English is the unifying language of our country and everyone should learn to speak it. It's important. I want to tell you a story about someone that didn't speak English that very well. It was my grandfather. My grandfather instilled in me the belief that I was blessed but he taught me that in Spanish because it was the language he was most comfortable in. And he became a conservative even though he got his news in Spanish.

And so I do give interviews in Spanish, and here's why. Because I believe that free enterprise and limited government is the best way to help people who are trying to achieve upward mobility. And if they get their news in Spanish, I want them to hear that directly from me. Not from a translator at Univision.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COSTELLO: OK. So I could relate to that story, Tara, because my grandfather never spoke great English either. He spoke Italian.

SETMAYER: Yes. No, I think that is -- as important as I believe that English should be the official language in this country, and, I mean, English is the official language in Tanzania and Papua New Guinea, for goodness sakes, so not in America. So that's -- but Marco Rubio hit that point in a very reasonable, relatable way, which was fantastic because for those folks that feel like, wait, everyone should speak English, what do you speaking Spanish, he turned it around and made it -- and said, look, this is what's going on. This is my own family, this is what's happening, and we can reach folks in their own language. This is how to do it.

Whether you agree or not, the way he presented it was fantastic. And I think that that's one of the really, really strong advantages that Marco Rubio has going into this election and he doesn't seem he's pandering. He uses his own, real personal stories to make the conservative message relatable across the board. It was an excellent, excellent answer for him.

COSTELLO: And humane. It was.

SETMAYER: That's right.

COSTELLO: OK. I have to leave it there. Alfonso Aguilar, Tara Setmayer, thanks -- thanks to you both. I appreciate it.

AGUILAR: Thank you.

COSTELLO: So Hillary Clinton, she's not granting many interviews, oh but she granted one to Wolf Blitzer. She will appear on his show today at 5:00 p.m. Eastern Time. Should be interesting.

Still to come in the NEWSROOM, one of the two -- one of the candidates who could see big gains from her debate performance is Carly Fiorina. She did more than just stand up to Donald Trump last night.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

FIORINA: Have you met Vladimir Putin? I wouldn't talk to him at all. We've talked way too much to him. What I would do immediately is begin rebuilding the Sixth Fleet, I would begin rebuilding the missile defense program in Poland, I would conduct regular aggressive military exercises in the Baltic states, I'd probably send a few thousand more troops into Germany. Vladimir Putin would get the message.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

[10:18:10] FIORINA: I think women all over this country heard very clearly what Mr. Trump said.

(CHEERS AND APPLAUSE)

TRUMP: I think she's got a beautiful face, and I think she's a beautiful woman.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COSTELLO: We don't think Donald's response went over too well with Carly Fiorina. But for whatever it's worth, that was the moment that was most tweeted last night. According to "TIME" magazine, Fiorina started the debate with about 493,000 followers. This morning she has more than 530,000 followers. Clearly Fiorina resonated. On "NEW DAY" this morning she talked about why.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

FIORINA: I am a fighter. I have also been the most vocal critic of Hillary Clinton on the campaign trail. This is going to be a fight. This is an important election. And we're going to have a fight about really important principles and really important policies and really important differences.

And so if you can't fight on a debate stage, then you are not going to be able to stand up and fight for the American people. And the American people are looking for a fighter because they know this is a pivotal time in our nation's history. They know these are important issues. And so yes, I'm prepared to fight.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COSTELLO: With me now CNN national political reporter Maeve Reston and David Gergen.

David Gergen, do I get you on the phone? OK. David Gergen is calling in. He'll join us shortly, Maeve. So the first question to you, what was the response to Carly Fiorina like inside the debate room?

MAEVE RESTON, CNN NATIONAL POLITICAL REPORTER: Well, just an incredibly intimate setting, as you know. And she really owned that stage last night. She -- this was a forum that was built just for her kind of talent. She gave polished answers, she got her points across, she really gave it to Donald Trump. And of course that moment that you just showed was clearly the moment of the debate.

[10:20:13] The facial control, you know, as she listened to Donald Trump's response was really quite extraordinary. So certainly she's the candidate that everyone's talking about today. This opens a big opportunity for her here. She's been doing a lot of the spade work in the early states like New Hampshire and I'm sure we will see a strong surge for her in the polls.

COSTELLO: Actually, I like the look on Donald Trump's face the most because he clearly looked uncomfortable.

RESTON: Well, like she kind of got the better of him, you know, right? It was giving her a little bit of credit there. And then I'm not sure his comeback went over so well either, as you were saying.

COSTELLO: Yes, Maeve, that wasn't the -- like it still sounded so patronizing. It's says, hello, are you tone deaf, Mr. Trump? Hello. I know.

OK, so we have David Gergen on the phone. Back to Carly Fiorina for just a second, David, because she seemed very prepared. She was prepared for questions on the culture war and also foreign policy. Let's listen.

OK. We don't have that sound. And it hurts me that we don't but she was -- she seemed very prepared on foreign policy, whether you agreed with it or not. Your opinion, David?

DAVID GERGEN, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST: I think she won the night, Carol, she was -- she came with crisp, prepared answers. She's a pro. She was principled, she was tough. There was a lot of Margaret Thatcher in her, which I think all worked. But that putdown of Donald Trump, he knew he was in trouble. He should have apologized. That would have been the manly thing to do. But I think instead she walked away with that point.

And then on two, three occasions thereafter, I thought especially when she talked about drug addiction and how she -- the price she paid in her own family, losing a child to drug addiction, that was moving. So overall, she was -- you know, she -- just as she was in the first debate, she was like, kiddy table at first debate. This time she graduated to the ground table in effect and she won again. So she's going to be a powerful force in these debates.

I would imagine coming out of this that she'll take away some of Ben Carson's support and I would think she's going to be the one nipping at Donald Trump's heels. We don't know how -- whether he got hurt last night. You know, he's a very durable fellow. So, you know, his shield was certainly dented last night, whether it was bad damaged, we'll have to wait and see.

COSTELLO: OK. So we have that foreign policy bite and I just want to share with our viewers what Carly Fiorina said. So let's listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

FIORINA: Have you met Vladimir Putin? I wouldn't talk to him at all. We've talked way too much to him. What I would do immediately is begin rebuilding the Sixth Fleet, I would begin rebuilding the missile defense program in Poland, I would conduct regular aggressive military exercises in the Baltic states, I'd probably send a few thousand more troops into Germany. Vladimir Putin would get the message.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COSTELLO: So, David, some military -- that all would take a lot of money, but at least she thought about it and she had her answer ready.

GERGEN: Exactly. And you cannot imagine Donald Trump giving that kind of answer. It just seem -- it doesn't seem plausible he would go and answer like that. But the answer she gave is very much what a commander-in-chief needs to know. You know, that person needs to be in command of the facts, understand the strategy and have a sort of comprehensive view of the world. She has that.

Now, you know, there's going to be a lot more scrutiny of Carly Fiorina, especially her record at HP, which is going to become controversial. You know, she thinks she was fired there in part because of some -- there were so many (INAUDIBLE), things going on, and gender related. Some of the people think, I don't know, she let the country down -- the company way down the wrong track, and even Meg Whitman seemed to be taking a jab at her yesterday. She announced more layoffs in today's speech.

So more to come in this part, but there's no question it was Carly Fiorina's night. And she has given a voice to an awful lot of people who are looking for a strong leader other than Trump. And she may become the Trump alternative. We'll have to wait and see.

COSTELLO: We will. David Gergen, Maeve Reston, thanks to both of you. I appreciate it.

Still to come in the NEWSROOM, there were a few laughs that came out of last night's debate. But did the best zinger come from someone who wasn't even on the stage?

[10:24:30]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MIKE HUCKABEE (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: We made accommodation to the Ft. Hood shooter to let him grow a beard. We made accommodations to the detainees at Gitmo. I've been to Gitmo and I've seen the accommodations that we made to the Muslim detainees who killed Americans. You're telling me that you cannot make an accommodation for an elected Democrat county clerk from Rowan County, Kentucky? What else is it other than the criminalization of her faith and the exaltation of the faith of everyone else who might be a Ft. Hood shooter or a detainee at Gitmo?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COSTELLO: Of course, that's Mike Huckabee invoking the specter of that embattled Kentucky county clerk, Kim Davis, who says she cannot issue marriage licenses to gay couples because it violates her conscience and faith.

It was just one of the many exchanges where Huckabee tried to break away from the pack and leave his mark on the debate stage. So how did he do? I'm joined by his campaign communications director, Alice Stewart.

Good morning, Alice.

ALICE STEWART, COMMUNICATIONS DIRECTOR, MIKE HUCKABEE FOR PRESIDENT: Good morning, Carol. Thanks for having me.

COSTELLO: Thank you so much for being with me because I know you must have had a long night. But I got to lay this by you, "The Washington Post" had a list of winners and losers. Huckabee showed up on the loser list along with three words. "Where. Was. He."

So where was he?

STEWART: He was right up there on the debate stage. Everyone is going to have different takeaways from the debate. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion but, you know, at the end of the day there were 11 candidates on the stage.