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Baby Doe Identified; Trump on Obama Comment; Bergdahl Won't Testify. Aired 2-2:30p ET

Aired September 18, 2015 - 14:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[14:00:19] ANNOUNCER: This is CNN breaking news.

BROOKE BALDWIN, CNN ANCHOR: Here we go. You're watching CNN. I'm Brooke Baldwin. Thank you so much for being with me.

Getting to this breaking development here out of Boston, Massachusetts. The news with regard to this little girl who's been referred to as "baby doe." This girl whose body was found nearly three months ago, washing ashore in the Boston area. We are waiting for a news conference to come out of Boston within the next little bit, so stay tuned for that.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Come on, Shannon (ph) (INAUDIBLE). That's you. Come on, let's go. Come on, let's go. Let's go. Look. Come on, let's go.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: Just adorable. This FaceBook video of such a happy time now is linked to tragedy. The beautiful little toddler here in pink is "baby doe." Her real name is Bella Bond. And her mother is now under arrest, along with her boyfriend. And you can see Bella's face resembles that sketch, that rendering of "baby doe."

This image was created by an expert based upon what was left of her toddler-sized body. More than 50 million people have seen this photo wanting to know "baby doe's" name, what happened to her and we may know those details shortly. As we mentioned, that news conference expected any minute now out of the Boston area.

But let me go straight to Poppy Harlow, who's sitting next to me here on set, who's been working this.

And so just in the last little bit they have confirmed, not just questioning now -

POPPY HARLOW, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Right.

BALDWIN: Arresting the mother and the boyfriend.

HARLOW: And the boyfriend. So here's what happened. This is all unfolding really in the last 24 hours. What we know is that a tipster called in to the Boston Police Homicide Unit yesterday. Gave them a tip they deemed credible enough to go to the Matipan (ph) neighborhood of Boston and search something. I don't know if it was a house, an apartment, what it was. But what it has led to is where we are today. And where that is, is the arrest of Michael McCarthy that is the boyfriend of the mother of Bella Bond, that beautiful little girl you see right there who has captured the nation's attention. He's the boyfriend. He's under arrest, being questioned right now. No formal charges yet. Those, we're told, are to come.

The mother, her name is Rachel Bond. This video you see off of the mother's FaceBook page. Important to note here, Brooke, the boyfriend, no biological connection to Bella. So this is not Bella's father. It is the boyfriend.

So many questions also leading up to this. They found pollen on her body in that bag.

BALDWIN: Yes.

HARLOW: And that told them she probably wasn't in the water. That someone just discarded her like a piece of trash on the side of Deer Island there. That pollen, they were able to trace back to trees and shrubs from New England. So they knew that this was a local girl. This is all finally coming together.

BALDWIN: Actually, I'm getting some information in my ear. We're going to go straight to the Boston area, news conference. Did it just end guys?

All right, we missed it. We're going to turn it around for you.

HARLOW: Yes.

BALDWIN: But staying with you, Poppy, this is - I was reading a couple of older "Boston Globe" articles -

HARLOW: Right.

BALDWIN: And I know Larry Kobilinsky is also with us as well, CNN contributor forensic scientist. This is fascinating with regard to the pollen. They were saying she was dusted - when they found this little body, she was dusted with traces of privet hedges and cedar of Lebanon -

HARLOW: Right.

BALDWIN: Which are not native but are often planted in the suburbs. The soot -

HARLOW: Yes.

BALDWIN: Mixed in with the pollen told investigators her surroundings were urban, someone here Boston -

HARLOW: Right.

BALDWIN: They concluded a local girl. HARLOW: And what they needed was that tip. They knew it was a local

girl. They knew she was probably from not way off somewhere. Probably near this city or right in the perimeter of it. So who was she.

The interesting thing is, Brooke, over these past three months, since her body was found on June 25th, they had hundreds of hundreds of tips from 30 states from four countries. So what was it about this tip, what was it about this tip that was so credible that they could go to a judge and get a search warrant and get in there last night?

BALDWIN: Casey Jordan, let me ask you that question, CNN contributor, criminologist and attorney, you're with us as well here. I mean what is it about the tip? We know they looked at the pollen. They looked at dental sealant. They looked at the blanket. They looked at the clothing. But it was a tip, apparently, that led them to these arrests.

CASEY JORDAN, CRIMINOLOGIST & BEHAVIORAL ANALYST: You know it's really always a convergence of the variables. You have the forensics. And this is - we've had a few cases that have been solved by pollen and other biological materials. But in this particular case, they clearly didn't have any definitive DNA that brought it together.

So when you have someone who says, you know, you have to ask yourself, where was this little girl, Bella, that nobody missed her? Where was she? I mean she - did she have grandparents? Did she have a daycare center? Did she have neighbors who realized they hadn't seen her for months?

When you have a tip come in and it matches where they think the pollen is located, what would match with this soot evidence, everything triangulates and comes together and they think, we have made a positive I.D. Then they can zero in, question the mother, question her boyfriend and then they know they have the right people to fill in the gaps. We still don't know what happened to her, but at least they know who she is.

BALDWIN: Right.

[14:05:04] So, Larry, obviously, your - this is your realm of expertise. It's the forensics. We've been talking about the pollen. But also even the tooth, the hair, taking the oxygen and the isotopes, figuring out what kind of drinking water, the genesis of the drinking water in the Boston area. I mean looking at all of this, all painting this mosaic to try to figure out who this little girl is.

LARRY KOBILINSKY: Yes, you're looking at state of the art science. That isotope methodology is absolutely cutting edge. And all of this comes together to determine the area where that child has been in recent time. The - every kind of plant produces pollen than appears differently under the microscope. And if you look at a collection of pollen taken from the bag and the clothing and the zebra blanket, you get a rough idea of the types of botanicals that produce that pollen. Putting all of this together, it - and the trace evidence of the soot that was also found on the blanket, it's pretty clear that she came from the area around Boston in an urban type area. But there are limitations to how far you can get with pollen, with analysis of teeth, with analysis of hair. They certainly did an autopsy on the remains. She was partially decomposed. Without all of the soft tissue -

BALDWIN: But there were no signs of injury? Correct, Poppy, there were no signs of injury?

HARLOW: Well, what we know - so let me just jump in - in here, Larry. What we know from our reporting is that the medical examiner did an autopsy when the body was found. But we don't know if they've done a more recent one. But, right, from that autopsy, what they said is, no obvious signs of violent trauma. That's a quote from the D.A.

KOBILINSKY: Right.

HARLOW: They were looking at potential poisoning. That has not been, you know, verified at all.

BALDWIN: OK.

HARLOW: But no, no obvious signs of violent trauma, so, to, Larry.

KOBILINSKY: Right.

BALDWIN: OK, Larry, continue.

KOBILINSKY: But there can be other explanations like asphyxia, for example -

BALDWIN: Right.

KOBILINSKY: Which would not, necessarily, leave signs. Without the soft tissue, it's very difficult to say exactly what happened to her. But it all comes together with DNA. Now that they have her mother, of course they don't have the biological father, but they can absolutely verify that the I.D. is correct.

BALDWIN: OK.

KOBILINSKY: I'm sure that the science would have gone a long way even further than we got, but a tip like what happened, that tip broke the case, obviously.

BALDWIN: Right. Right. That is what broke the case and we're trying to get more information about the tip. Was it a neighbor? Was it someone who had noticed that the little girl had been missing? We don't know.

Casey; to you. In cases, sadly, there are a number of cases in which, you know, children are killed and my question would be, in cases you have worked with, how often is it that the mother, the biological mother, plays a role in that death?

JORDAN: I'm not going to give you specific statistics, but I can tell you that the most damning evidence is that the mother never reported this child missing. And the whole world, what, over 5 million shares of that composite sketch of this child, no one ever came forward, which means that we're probably going to conclude that the mother either was responsible for that child's death or knew who was, probably the boyfriend.

BALDWIN: (INAUDIBLE).

JORDAN: Get ready for them to come forward and say that she died accidentally. It was carbon monoxide poisoning. She accidentally choked on something. Something that forensics is inconclusive about. Get ready for that defense. They panicked. They threw the body away, but they didn't kill her. That's my worst fear. We have to actually look very carefully at this family, what was going on in there, whether or not there was signs of abuse or neglect in the past, and why didn't anyone even know she was missing. To me, that is the biggest indices that the family is responsible and that the death wasn't natural.

BALDWIN: Casey Jordan, thank you so much. Larry Kobilinsky on the phone, Poppy Harlow, I appreciate it.

We thought it was a false alarm there off the top. The police in Boston have yet to give that news conference.

HARLOW: OK.

BALDWIN: So we should get some new information on that. So we'll have another discussion, I'm sure, as soon as we get those new details out of the Boston area. So stay tuned for that.

Come up next, though, let's talk politics. Donald Trump in a bit of trouble today for not what he said, what he did not say. Who he did not correct. The White House, moments ago, responded to that cringe- worthy anti-Muslim comment made at this Trump rally last night. A supporter calling President Obama a Muslim. The Republican front runner under scrutiny for what he did not say. We'll talk with a supporter who was at that event and spoke with Trump moments after he left the stage.

Also, will Army Sergeant Bowe Bergdahl be charged with desertion? That question unfolding right now. The prosecution outlining evidence that Bergdahl spent weeks planning to abandon his post in Afghanistan.

And, Pope Francis preparing for his historic trip to Cuba tomorrow and then the next couple of days coming to the United States. We'll look at the tremendous security effort already underway.

[14:10:09] You're watching CNN. We'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BALDWIN: You're watching CNN. I'm Brooke Baldwin.

The White House just now reacting to Donald Trump's controversial silence after he was asked one very specific question last night at a town hall in New Hampshire.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) TRUMP SUPPORTER: We have a problem in this country, it's called Muslims. We know our current president is one.

DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Right.

TRUMP SUPPORTER: You know he's not even an American. Birth certificate, man.

TRUMP: We need this question. This is the first question.

TRUMP SUPPORTER: But anyway, we have training camps growing where they want to kill us.

TRUMP: Uh-huh.

TRUMP SUPPORTER: That's my question. When can we get rid of them?

TRUMP: We're going to be looking at a lot of different things. And, you know, a lot of people are saying that and a lot of people are saying that bad things are happening out there. We're to be looking at that and plenty of other things.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

[14:15:05] BALDWIN: All right, so now we mentioned the White House reaction. Here is White House Press Secretary Josh Earnest.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOSH EARNEST, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: I think my first observation is, is anybody really surprised that this happened at a Donald Trump rally? I don't think anybody who's been paying attention to Republican politics is at all surprised.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: Well, not everyone at that event last night in New Hampshire appreciated his silence there or lack of correction. I want you to look at the reaction, some cringing, from people behind him. But just a reminder, questioning the president's background, hardly virgin territory for Donald Trump. Of course, he was one of the most prominent birthers back in 2011 challenging whether the president was, in fact, even born in the United States.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: Very simple. I have people looking into it.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: (INAUDIBLE).

TRUMP: I'm starting to think that he was not born here.

There's a lot of people who question it. I certainly question it.

I have seen fraud and I have seen scandal and I have seen things that a lot of people don't see. But many people do not think it was authentic. His mother was not in

the hospital.

There's something on that birth certificate that he doesn't like.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: (INAUDIBLE).

TRUMP: So perhaps he was born in this country. That has a very big chance.

I don't make up anything. Let me tell you something, I have done a great service to the American people.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: Joining me now, a man who was there last night, Lou Gergulo, co-chairman for the Trump campaign in Rockingham County, New Hampshire. Also with me, CNN's Jeremy Diamond, who covered that event for us at CNN. He's already on to South Carolina.

So, gentlemen, welcome to both of you.

And, Lou, let me start with you. You actually talked to Trump after that town hall. You know, really the question is, I know the Donald Trump camp has said he didn't even fully hear the question. He's taking heat because he didn't correct the questioner who stated that the president is Muslim. We know that this is certainly red meat for this crowd. We know that the president of the United States is American, is Christian. And now the new development, Lou, is that Trump has pulled out of this event tonight in South Carolina. Is this a sign that your candidate is backing down?

LOU GERGULO, CO-CHAIR, TRUMP CAMPAIGN IN ROCKINGHAM COUNTY, NEW HAMPSHIRE: I don't think for a minute Mr. Trump is backing down. I was in the room last night. The room was fully packed with probably over 1,000 people. It was very hot. It was very loud. And it was an early question. I don't believe Mr. Trump fully understood the question as it began, and I think that the candidate cant' -

BALDWIN: Well, then why did he say we need this question when the man started asking? I think that's -

GERGULO: I think - I frankly think he was doing it in jest and like, we need this question at this point, aren't there more important things? I think if you go back to the CNN debate a few nights ago, a lot of the questions surrounded Mr. Trump and not about substance. And I think Mr. Trump is looking for questions of substance from the audiences. And that certainly wasn't a question of substance. So -

BALDWIN: I was at the debate. There was definitely a number of substantive questions. In fact, I think some of the other candidates wish there were fewer Trump related questions and more and more for them.

Lou, let me come back to you. But, Jeremy, you were there as well. You're already on to South Carolina. Why don't you explain to us, what has the Trump camp explained as far as, you know, canceling this event tonight because I can't recall the last time, you know, Donald Trump said no to standing in front of a camera.

JEREMY DIAMOND, CNN POLITICS REPORTER: Yes, that's right, Brooke. So the Trump campaign basically said that they had a last-minute business transaction that they need to finalize. It's a big deal they said that they'll announce next week. so that's how they're explaining their last-minute cancellation to this event right here, which is the Heritage Action Presidential Forum where you'll have several other candidates coming here to speak to a group of conservatives.

But what's interesting about last night is, is Donald Trump, you know, he has to kind of choose a path right now. He has to decide, is he going to back those comments up that he made about - about Muslims, about Obama, or rather what he didn't say, or is he going to maybe try and not just play to his base and perhaps think about the general election. Think about that audience, which is definitely a different voting bloc.

BALDWIN: Lou, let me ask you about that path. And as I do so, I want to give two examples, both from Republicans, who have been asked about President Bush and if they - forgive me, President Obama and if they trust - if they trust him. You had Senator McCain, who was actually questioned about Obama back in the 2008 campaign. Here's how - here's how McCain handled it.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I can't trust Obama.

SEN. JOHN MCCAIN (R), ARIZONA: (INAUDIBLE).

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I have read about him and he's not -- he's not - he's a - he's an Arab. He is not -

MCCAIN: No, ma'am. No, ma'am.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: No?

MCCAIN: No, ma'am. No, ma'am. He's a - he's a - he's a decent family man, citizen that I just happen to have disagreements with on fundamental issues.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: So that was Senator McCain. And then, Lou, one more. This is Chris Christie today.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GOV. CHRIS CHRISTIE (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: And if somebody at one of my town hall meetings said something like that, I would correct them and say, no, the president is a Christian and he was born in this country. I mean I - I think that -- those two things are self-evident.

(END VIDEO CLIP) [14:20:07] BALDWIN: So, Lou, let's give Donald Trump the benefit of the doubt. You know, to your point, maybe he really didn't fully hear the entire question, but now he's certainly heard the cacophony in the wake of what he didn't say. What path do you think he should choose? Should he come out and say, I apologize, of course the president of the United States is a Christian, is an American, or should he continue to play to - with the red meat to the base?

GERGULO: I frankly think that Mr. Trump doesn't need to apologize. I think he came back out in 2011 and said that he believed that President Obama is a Christian and I don't think this is about President Obama or about Muslims. This is about Islamic terrorists who are trying to kill us, and I think Mr. Trump's final part of his answer was that it's something to look into. There's plenty of reporting out there that there very well may be ISIS terrorist camps in the continental United States. It's been reported in the mainstream media and I think that's certainly something worth looking into. But I don't think we should re-litigate if President Obama is a Christian or a Muslim.

BALDWIN: I don't think we're re-litigating it. I think it's just a point made. Sometimes news can be made in the silence. Not only in what you say, but in the silence. And you're absolutely correct to point out the latter part of the question was about jihadist training camps, which is a valid question. But, again, the fact that Mr. Trump did not correct the man, to your point, that he did indeed eventually say, yes, the president is a Christian back in 2011. Why not now and just stop all of this?

GERGULO: I think Mr. Trump will respond to those questions in the upcoming days in a very clear and concise manner. I do think that he will be a president for all Americans, including Muslims, Catholics, Jews and everyone else. And I believe fully that these kinds of questions really are not serving any great purpose. Unfortunately, you get a person who, in my opinion, was out of sorts last night asking a crazy question, making outlandish comments and, you know, it came out of nowhere. And Mr. Trump could hardly hear the question in the fervor of the room and how loud and hot it was and I think that he might have handled it a bit differently if he heard the question.

BALDWIN: OK.

GERGULO: But I don't believe he did. I was there and I saw it firsthand.

BALDWIN: OK. OK, Lou, thank you. Finally to you, Jeremy, you know, we heard the White House reaction. Just quickly, how are the Democrats reacting to this?

DIAMOND: Yes, so Democrats are definitely seizing on this one. You had the DNC chairwoman sending out a statement last night, just moments after Donald Trump made these comments. You have Bernie Sanders, who tweeted today, "Trump must apologize to the president and the American people for continuing the lie that the president is not an American and not a Christian." Hillary Clinton also addressed the comments today during a press conference and she's also calling on Trump to apologize. And what the Democrats are going to try and do now is tie this to the rest of the Republican field. They're saying, will the rest of the Republican field come out and denounce these comments? And so that's what we'll see in the coming days.

BALDWIN: We'll watch for them in the coming days. We'll watch for Mr. Trump as well.

Lou Gergulo, thank you so much for your time.

GERGULO: Thank you, Brooke, for being with you.

BALDWIN: Jeremy Diamond in South Carolina, thank you very much.

And speaking of Democrats, mark your calendars because in just three weeks, CNN and FaceBook will be hosting the first Democratic candidate's debate. That is Tuesday, October 13th, in Las Vegas.

And in case you missed the big debate in Simi Valley, California, among all these Republicans this past week, or you would like to watch it again, we will be re-airing that Republican presidential debate, 10:00 Eastern this evening here on CNN.

Coming up next, we are just now learning Sergeant Bowe Bergdahl will not testify on his own behalf at a preliminary hearing about whether he deserted his platoon in Afghanistan. What the prosecution is now saying about items he sent home that they say show he planned for weeks - weeks to abandon his post. We'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[14:28:21] BALDWIN: Bottom of the hour. You're watching CNN. I'm Brooke Baldwin.

Accused Army deserter Bowe Bergdahl will not testify in his own behalf, at least for now. A long awaited preliminary hearing is underway today to decide whether he will be tried in a military court. Prosecutors argue Bergdahl deserted his unit in Afghanistan back in 2009. You know the story. He was then captured by the Taliban and held and tortured in captivity for five years. Flash forward to 2014. President Obama freed five Guantanamo Bay prisoners, members of that same terror group, in exchange for Bowe Bergdahl. If he is indeed court-martialed and is found guilty of desertion, he faces life in prison. And that could also spell trouble for the White House, which has stood by that prisoner swap and the Bergdahl family.

Today the court heard testimony from the general leading the investigation into Bergdahl's actions and he said Bergdahl told him he left his post so a recovery mission would expose the platoon's poor leadership. He also said there was no evidence Bergdahl was sympathetic to the Taliban. Bergdahl's defense team argues he suffered from a, quote, severe mental defect at the time he fled.

So let's talk about this with Terry Lyles, a psychologist who often deals with military stress and combat.

So, Terry, welcome back. Thank you so much for joining me. TERRY LYLES, PSYCHOLOGIST: Thank you.

BALDWIN: Also, I should point out, author of "Cracking the Stress Code."

LYLES: Thank you.

BALDWIN: We know Bergdahl was discharged from the Coast Guard for, you know, psychological reasons. But he was admitted to the Army at a time where it waived psychological testing. What could, when we hear from them, you know, potentially severe mental defect that he suffered from, what could that be that could lead someone to just up and leave a post?

[14:30:03] LYLES: Well, and, Brooke, I think a couple of things. Thanks for having me back again.

You know, we've talked about this off and on for over year and, you know, it's one of those things where, if our medical records can't follow us to help what's happening, so when the Coast Guard somehow did not get the release of those records to the army -- they brought him in.