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Trump: "Radical Muslims" A Problem; Pope Meets With Former Cuban President Fidel Castro; Kentucky Clerk May Have Changed License Forms. Aired 2-3p ET

Aired September 20, 2015 - 14:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[14:00:13] JIM SCIUTTO, CNN CHIEF NATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: Hello. I welcome our viewers in America and around the world. I'm Jim Sciutto in today for Fredricka Whitfield. And we are following several developing stories today.

New polls show Donald Trump is falling eight percent and Carly Fiorina soaring to second place passing Ben Carson and Jeb Bush.

Also today, thousands gathering in Cuba where Pope Francis is today. That is where CNN "NEW DAY" anchor Chris Cuomo is. He joins me live from Havana.

Chris, what's the scene like there? Tremendous excitement.

CHRIS CUOMO, CNN HOST, NEW DAY: Jim, what a day we've had. Pope Francis is taking Cuba by storm. There was a massive mass and celebration this morning. But the big news is that, yes, the meeting we've been waiting for has happened. Pope Francis and Fidel Castro met shortly after the mass. The Pope is said to have gone directly there. The family was in attendance. The meeting took about half an hour or so. Gifts were exchanged. A little bit of insight, is that Fidel Castro supposedly asked for books in the past, so Pope Francis brought him books.

Of course there has been a warm relationship between Raul Castro and the Pope mainly because of the role the Pope has had in trying to create a rapprochement between Cuba and the United States. And in return the Cuban authorities have allowed this place to become the testing ground for Colombian peace negotiations.

So the Vatican has been working more with this administration here and in this address this morning, first homily and then the blessing at the end of the mass, he made clear that service is supposed to be unselfish and that power must relent to people and that the whole point of living basically is to be merciful to others. And that's certainly resonated with the people here who are so desperate for so much.

Now the rest of the day has this Pope meeting with the minister officials there. Again, kind of galvanizing this relationship. The Pope taking an unusually political posture where Cuba specifically with respect to the United States is involved. And then the main event tonight that we haven't seen already because the mass was obviously the big to-do is this meeting with 2,000 young people, Jim. What's going to make this so unusual is they will have Wi-Fi at the Vatican's insistence. The government authorized it. The church brought in all the equipment because as you know the internet in Cuba is spare and rare. And they're going to be only with Wi-Fi, but they will be able to and encouraged to send media messages and to social media about life in Cuba. So that's the rest of the day here in the beginning of his trip. But already he's made such an impact here, Jim.

SCIUTTO: One of those moments we get to witness history and it's going to continue, of course, when the Pope comes to the U.S. on Tuesday. We will be following as well. My good friend, Chris Cuomo, there with the Pope in Cuba.

We begin here in the U.S. with stunning first poll numbers since the second GOP debate that aired here on CNN. The headline, Carly Fiorina soaring into second place with 15 percent of the vote, Ben Carson dropping to third at 14 percent, Marco Rubio also seeing a major increase over Jeb Bush.

But also this, Donald Trump still leading the race with 24 points, but that is a full eight points lower than before the debate, a significant drop. He reacted to the drop on CNN's "STATE OF THE UNION" this morning.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Well, I'm a little surprised because other polls have come out where I actually picked up after the debate. I actually gained after the debate. I'm in first place in every poll but gained substantially in a couple of them, some a little surprise, but you know, it's a poll. The only poll that matters is the big one, you know that one, that's going to be the election.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SCIUTTO: Well, Trump isn't the only candidate who saw a significant drop after the debate. Wisconsin governor Scott Walker barely registering this time around with less than one-half of one percent of support.

A lot to unpack here following this poll. And CNN's Sunlen Serfaty is in Mackinaw Island in Michigan, for the GOP forum there.

Sunlen, some enormous differences from just earlier this month, particularly after the debate. Good news for Fiorina, for Rubio, bad news to some degree for Donald Trump.

SUNLEN SERFATY, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Absolutely, Jim. And these numbers really show how much this latest debate has really shaken up the field, really done a lot to change the race for a lot of these candidates. But beyond just those top-line numbers, who's up, who's down, what really is striking is if you look numbers, where the field was just a month ago.

I want to put up the numbers now on the screen compared so early September, Donald Trump, he's still the front-runner, of course, but he's on a downward slope, sliding an eight percentage points. Support slipping there, too, for Ben Carson. As you can see, he's lost five points in the last month. Compare that, though, to Carly Fiorina. She is leaping up 12 points in the polls. That's a huge jump really in just three weeks if you think about it. Huge jump there too for Marco Rubio, who's gained eight points. And all of this really does underscore, Jim, how important these debates or performances are for the candidates when they're up there on the stage. It really can do a lot. They need to stand out.

Carly Fiorina, she really had a lot of pointed exchanges with Donald Trump there. And I think she's seen a big boost from this. Same goes for are Marco Rubio. He was able to explain the foreign policy talks. They are now seeing momentum because of it.

[14:05:29] SCIUTTO: And Carly Fiorina wasn't even on the top tier, the top stage in the previous debate and now perceived by many as the winner of this one.

Another interesting take-away is who the polls show who folks think won and lost the debate. What did we learn there?

SERFATY: That's right. This is a really simple question but had a very telling answer for so many of these candidates as we start to rehash how this momentum is affecting them after the debate. The question that CNN/ORC asked in this poll was, regardless of who you support, which candidate do you think did the best job during the debate?

And look at this. Carly Fiorina overwhelmingly seen as the best followed by Rubio, followed by Trump and Chris Christie, who of course, managed to really interject himself on many discussions up there on the stage, really steal some of the spotlight. But then again, who did the worst job this poll asked? Thirty one percent said that Trump did the worst job. That was followed by Rand Paul and Jeb Bush.

So again, every single moment they are up on the stage for the candidate, it so important because it really does set the tone of how you project there on the screen, on the debate stage really sets the tone for the campaign trail for these candidates going forward -- Jim.

SCIUTTO: No question. Sunlen Serfaty with the GOP poll there. Thank you.

Despite that drop in the polls, Donald Trump is doubling down on his reaction to those anti-Muslim remarks from a supporter on Thursday. This morning on NBC's "Meet the Press," he refused to concede that President Obama is a Christian.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CHUCK TODD, NBC HOST, MEET THE PRESS: Can you imagine supporting or being comfortable if a Muslim ever became president of the United States? TRUMP: I can say it's something that at some point could happen. We

will see. I mean, you know. It is something that could happen. Would I be comfortable? I don't know if we have to address it right now, but I think it's certainly something that could happen.

TODD: You said you had no problem --

TRUMP: Some people who said it already happened, frankly. But of course, you wouldn't agree with that.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SCIUTTO: And now another Republican is saying that Muslims do not belong in the White House. Presidential hopeful Ben Carson.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TODD: So do you believe that Islam is consistent with the constitution?

BEN CARSON (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: No, I don't. I do not. I would not advocate that we put a Muslim in charge of this nation. I absolutely would not vote for that.

TODD: And you, would you ever consider voting for a Muslim for Congress?

CARSON: Congress is a different story, but it depends on who that Muslim is and what their policies are.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SCIUTTO: We should mention that the U.S. currently has two sitting Muslim congressmen, Democrats Keith Ellison from Minnesota, Andre Carson from Indiana where I had a pleasure speaking with on Friday.

Joining me now to talk more about this is attorney Brian Morgenstern. He is a political strategist, and Ellis Henican, he is a political columnist.

Brain, first, I want to get your reaction to Ben Carson's remarks. Why is this necessary, that kind of --

BRIAN MORGENSTERN, POLITICAL STRATEGIST: It's not. The correct answer is that the latter part of his statement, which is it depends on the kind of Muslim, just like it depends on the kind of human being that you're voting for based on their policies. This is another in Ben Carson's sort of, you know, I'm not a politician so I'm going to make mistakes parade. And I hope that he, you know, sort of finds the right path on this one as he did -- like I said, toward the end of his comment, I think it was -- I hope he didn't mean it the way he said it, I guess. And I'll leave it at that.

SCIUTTO: Yes. Well Ellis, I want to ask you as well, he's not alone, Ben Carson or Donald Trump, they're not alone in these sorts of comments. Except for Chris Christie and Lindsey Graham who came out hard on Friday after Donald Trump not correcting the anti-Muslim questioner. We've heard largely silence from a lot of the candidates or comments like, well, it's not my place to do this. Is there a political reason for that? Are they afraid in the simplest terms of alienating a more right-wing, hardline portion of their base?

ELLIS HENICAN, COLUMNIST: These guys are all in a squeeze, right? On the one hand, it makes no sense at all to start picking off groups one at a time and insulting them. Right? Eventually, you run out of people who are willing to support you. But at the same time, they're smart enough to know politically that right inside the core Republican base, those people who really turn out for caucuses and primaries are a lot of people who believe a lot of crazy stuff, including that Muslims shouldn't be president.

SCIUTTO: Yes. I mean, this is the year 2015. Just remarkable, I think, that we're talking about that.

I want to talk about Carly Fiorina because that's another headline from these polls. On August 6th she didn't even make it to the main debate stage, you'll remember, although she did well in the second- tier debate. Now she's in second place overall.

Why do you think that is, Brian? I mean, how did she manage that quick a turnaround in such a short span of time?

[14:10:22] MORGENSTERN: Well, because there are 20-some-odd million viewers, you know. There's a lot of primary voters in that pack and she made a very strong impression. She was substantive. She was strong in personality. She really had not been well introduced to a lot of the primary electorate and this was her big chance and she, you know, frankly knocked it out of the park.

And the way, you know, that she was doing something right is that "The New York Times" ran basically a news story/attack ad against her this morning, and it's not just "the Times." A lot of the conservative sites are starting to give her some more scrutiny as well. That's what happens when you do well. You get a target on your back.

And what we're going to see in the coming days and weeks is how prepared is she for the blowback from that success and how well is she able to deflect it. That's an unanswered question that, you know, we'll see. I mean, obviously, she showed a lot of poise in the debate. So I'm sure she has her answers ready. We'll see if they work.

SCIUTTO: Ellis, let me ask you this. Are we looking -- is it looking more credible that 2016 does produce the first female president of the United States, but that it's Carly Fiorina, not Hillary Clinton?

HENICAN: Well, I guess. I mean, listen, our lives would be boring if we knew now what was going to happen a year from November. So sure. It could happen. But don't forget, Carly Fiorina, while we're now suddenly paying attention to her, she's got quite a few negatives. I mean, she is going to have to explain why she got fired at Hewlett- Packard, why she laid off all those workers, why her career has not continued on, why she got swatted by Barbara Boxer. I mean, the list goes on. Do the Republicans, by the way, really want to run another CEO one percent business type? I mean, that didn't work out so well last time, did it?

SCIUTTO: Right. Right. Fair points all. Brian Morgenstern, Ellis Henican, thanks for joining us today.

And next, we are going to go live to Cuba. Very soon, Pope Francis set to meet with the Cuban leader, Raul Castro who just learned that he met earlier with Fidel Castro, Raul Castro's brother, this morning. The latest on that meeting, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[14:15:34] CUOMO: Hello. I'm Chris Cuomo. We are live in Havana, Cuba with special coverage of Pope Francis' historic visit. And historic it is in so many levels.

Tens of thousands of people came out for the mass that Pope Francis gave in morning in revolution square, the heart of communism was the same place for a catholic mass this morning. However, there's big news after the mass. The meeting that everybody's been wondering about has happened, we are told.

Pope Francis met with Fidel Castro. How long, what happened, those are the questions, we have the answers. Let's bring in Patrick Oppmann and John Allen.

It is very good to be with you. Patrick Hoffmann is our man in Havana. He lives here. He knows the story very well. The news of the meeting, is it true and what happened?

PATRICK OPPMANN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes. We had some expectation it would happen. Pope Francis, three days ago, we found out asked for this meeting. It really depended on Fidel Castro. He's not well, Chris. Some days he's good, some days not to have a meeting like this. Today was one of those days he was good enough. Francis had to go to his house.

CUOMO: Fidel's house.

OPPMANN: Fidel's house, exactly. Fidel is going to see Benedict, (INAUDIBLE). Currently, he wasn't well enough today to do that. So he went to about 30 minutes outside of where we are, (INAUDIBLE), zero point, had a meeting for about 30 to 40 minutes. Probably it was very -- it was cove vial that was not talking about issues. Just a meeting, Castro's family was there, children and grandchildren in his private compound that you, I and no one else could enter. Pope could enter today. And he gave him some books. And they chatted, two huge figures. Obviously, Pope Francis realizing it's the last time he'll be in Cuba and if he didn't meet Fidel Castro today, he would never have met him.

OPPMANN: That's an interesting approach to why he would have done that.

John, when you hear, I mean, the books we know a little bit of history on that. Fidel had asked for books so Pope Francis brought books. He was gifted from Fidel's brother Raul today with an icon of the virgin mother, that's of a local variety of icon. So what do you think the intention is to giving this meeting now at his own insistence, the Pope?

JOHN ALLEN, CNN SENIOR VATICAN ANALYST: Well, I think this is the latest chapter in a long running story. I mean, the Vatican has been engaged with Cuba from the very beginning, certainly from the beginning --.

CUOMO: Eighty years of uninterrupted interchange, they said.

ALLEN: Yes. I mean, remember in the during the '62 Cuban missile crisis, Pope John XXIII was credited both by U.S. president John Kennedy and (INAUDIBLE) with helping to defuse that crisis. So, it's a long-running story. And then what we're seeing in these three days in Cuba is the latest Vatican attempt to do two things at once.

CUOMO: Is this the biggest one since the missile crisis, obviously?

ALLEN: Well, I think the role that Francis played in normalizing relations between the United States and Cuba, with the breakthrough last December 17th, that probably was the biggest single turning point since the missile crisis.

I think Francis here is trying to do two things at once, Chris. In the one hand, he wants to engage the Cubans. He's been talking about partnership and cooperation and so the meeting with Fidel, thanking Raul Castro from the altar of the mass today. All of that is about sending signals that we want to be your friend. At the same time, he also wants to lay down a kind of gentle challenge, and we heard him doing some of that this morning too.

CUOMO: Gentle challenge. That's a good phrase from John Allen.

Patrick, when you were talking to people here after the mass, a lot of it was geared toward them, about service, about the need for freedom and about the need to take care of your brothers and sisters. That's what this crowd need to hear because they feel neglected and alone. But in terms of the balance of what he's going to try to change and push and massage is regime to do, what was the take?

OPPMANN: I think people were very interested because they don't hear leaders come and talk like that. And then to see their leaders, invite them in (INAUDIBLE) and not a long where all these keep quiet renders some criticism. And the Cubans are used to reading between the tea leaves. Do they have to parse their leaders' words to understand what they're talking about? I think they knew very well what the Pope was talking about when he said we live to serve. We don't not serve to live. And certainly here where people do feel abandoned, not they began less social services in the promise of Raul has been kept in many ways. They are looking more to the church to help them out.

CUOMO: The final line that you referred to of Pope Francis' homily was those who do not live to serve do not serve to live. The meaning, obvious there, no matter who his audience.

But two meetings today, one like you say, accomplishing two things at once, one seems on the political, governmental side, he is meeting with the minister, the other is a "wow" meeting where he has 2,000 youths and they are going to have Wi-Fi.

Let's talk about the first one. The need for that meeting with the ministers, this is a point by point agenda, is this just a courtesy?

ALLEN: Well, listen. I mean, the Pope meets with the head of state of whenever country he's visiting all time. So there is nothing unusual about that. And then his secretary of state meets the foreign minister on the opposite side so that is in a certain sense standard.

[14:20:03] CUOMO: The interplay of the Vatican as a sovereign state.

ALLEN: Yes. The Vatican is a sovereign state. It takes that status very seriously. It sees itself as a voice of conscience in world affairs. If you like, it sees itself as the world's premier soft power. And so, these meetings are an opportunity to wield some of that soft power.

Now, the meeting this afternoon with youth, let me tell you, this is when Pope Francis is going to come alive, because this formal protocol stuff is not really his scene. He'll do it because he knows it has to be done, but it's not when he's his wheelhouse.

CUOMO: Let's set the stage. Two thousand young people and one of the only thing the Vatican asked for that was unusual was we want Wi-Fi. Wee-fee they say here. Took me two days to figure out what they were saying. They mean Wi-Fi. Now, I get it. I was the one who was wrong.

So they asked for it, the administration says yes, you bring the equipment. They brought cisco equipment in here. You've been pointing out the towers to me as we've been driving around. How unusual is it to have Wi-Fi? Because everybody takes it for granted. You all have your smartphones. You don't see people walking around glue told their phones in Cuba. Tell us why and how special this is.

OPPMANN: It's unprecedented. Let's back up. There's no 3G, 2G, there is a 1G here. And Wi-Fi, there are only about 35 spots in the whole country where you can go and pay $2 an hour. It doesn't seem like a lot. It's a lot in Cuba. A place where even fit's for an hour or two and you can go and post and have an event like this where people are going to be encouraged to post, tweet, whatever, be online around the Pope, it is going to bring in the youth because they don't have access to this kind of technology otherwise.

CUOMO: And today, this place is emptied out where we were, but tens of thousands of people, Jim, were here today for this mass. You have the faithful and the hopeful. You had a mix of inspiration and aspiration. Whether or not they were there for the religion or just there for the hope for something better. They really came together.

And the only thing that was more impressive in what was said was what wasn't said. Complete silence here during the mass.

John, Patrick, stay with me. Let's take a quick break. When we come back, we are going to tell you more about the means and motives that Pope Francis has in this historic trip to Cuba. Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[14:25:53] SCIUTTO: Welcome back. I'm Jim Sciutto in Washington.

We continue to follow the Pope's historic visit to Cuba. But we are also following other news around the world in political headlines here in the U.S.

First, international news. Two Americans held hostage by Houthi rebels in Yemen have been released and have arrived now in the Amani capital of Muscat. One of them has been identified as 45-year-old Scott Darden. That is a picture of him there. A total of three Americans have been held captive. The fate of the third, however, is still unclear.

For more now, we're joined by CNN senior international correspondent Nick Paton Walsh. He's on the phone from Beirut.

Nick, were we expecting this release?

NICK PATON WALSH, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (on the phone): No, frankly. Of course, intense negotiation are being under way and we understand from U.S. officials with Amani diplomats assisting in this. But no, it was not expected that this occur.

What appears to have happened according to a diplomat I spoke in the Yemeni capital Sanaa is this is a gesture on the Houthi rebel group who are currently engaged (INAUDIBLE) in a brutal war with the Saudi- led coalition that's bombing them (INAUDIBLE) on the ground toward the capital Sanaa in a bit of peace talks because the U.S. is backing the Saudi coalition, the Houthis are have released these six individuals.

We understand, Amani state television put it back to two Americans, three Saudi citizens and the UK government now confirming also Britain in their number as well. That's second American, (INAUDIBLE) is not quite clear what was his job was in Yemen, what brought him there when he was taken a number of months ago.

Questions really surround now the identity and whereabouts of that third American. Of course officials saying that it protect the safety, but there were reports at the beginning from many in Yemen that in fact there were three Americans on that plane, Clearly a confusion there, but quite what led him to be left off the plane or what negotiations are under way to assist him in gaining his liberty, (INAUDIBLE) for those close to him, we are dealing with the capital. We should increasingly surround there by Saudi forces, completely bombard by them as well, many civilian casualties in this war, but at least some good news that two of the three are now safe - Jim.

SCIUTTO: This has become one of those multisided conflicts. You have the Saudi-led coalition, you have the Houthi rebels, you also have Al- Qaeda of the Arabian Peninsula and tribes affiliated with them. There had been talk of peace talks. Is there any progress on a peaceful resolution to this, or is this country descending into a war like we've seen in a place like Somalia or in Syria?

WALSH: There have been multiple bids to prolong cease-fires. In many occasions the guns have fallen silent for a number of days, then picked up, particularly terrifying videos emerging from the capital Sanaa, again, the Saudi back strikes. Many (INAUDIBLE). Under way now and perhaps key hoping partly this release may fuel them is a bid it seems by the U.N. and others to try and get people talking again. There appear to be on that plane with those Americans, Saudis and that Britain, a Houthi delegation according to one diplomat I spoke to coming from the sky to perhaps try and get peace talks under way. But that same diplomat said look, there are pretty pessimistic about where this may be able to go. He feels we're looking at more military solution now that the Saudis feel they have the upper handle and they want to push something through considering the Houthis (INAUDIBLE) are actually in a weaker position now. But increasingly terrifying life for those many Yemenis that have live been in the capital. They are easily bombarded and surrounded now increasingly on the ground - Jim.

SCIUTTO: Nick Paton Walsh is in Beirut now, but he has been to Yemen many times. Thanks for following this for us.

He is still the front-runner, but Donald Trump's lead dropped in our new CNN poll, and Carly Fiorina, the opposite. She's on the rise. We are going to talk about that next right after this break.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

SCIUTTO: Welcome, everyone. Thanks for joining me. I'm Jim Sciutto in for Fredricka Whitfield. We have a lot of news today.

GOP presidential frontrunner, Donald Trump who's fallen 8 percentage points in our latest CNN poll is not backing down on his refusal to correct a supporter who called President Obama a Muslim, question his U.S. citizenship, made other offensive comments critics have said about Muslims.

Here's what Donald Trump said on "STATE OF THE UNION" this morning with Jake Tapper.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JAKE TAPPER, CNN HOST: This man said, quote, "we have a problem in this country it's called Muslims." You are not responsible for what he says, but this is raw, unvarnished, ignorant bigotry. You are a leader, frontrunner in the Republican race. Do you not have a responsibility to call out this hatred?

DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE (via telephone): Well, you know, we can be politically incorrect if you want but certainly are you trying to say we don't have a problem? Because I think everybody would agree I have friends that are Muslims. They're great people, amazing people, and most Muslims like most everything, I mean, these are fabulous people. But we certainly do have a problem. I mean, we have a problem throughout the world.

TAPPER: What's the problem?

TRUMP: You have radicals that are doing things. I mean, it wasn't people from Sweden that blew up the World Trade Center, Jake.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SCIUTTO: Joining me now is Republican strategist, Kayleigh McEnany. She is a Trump supporter. Thanks for joining us this morning. You heard Donald Trump's comments. Here's the essential issue I have here because Donald Trump makes a point in effect about Islamic extremists and yes, there is an issue.

The questioner talked about Muslims in general and it was that issue, not challenging this idea that Muslims in general in America are a problem. Why not stand up to that kind of bigotry?

KAYLEIGH MCENANY, REPUBLICAN STRATEGIST: Because as Donald Trump said to Jake Tapper after the question, you know, we don't have a problem with political correctness in this country. There are plenty of people who can police the questioner.

We have the media doing it, the Democrat Party, even fellow Republican candidates correcting the questioner. Donald Trump's worry, my worry is the failure to call the problem what it is. We have a president who has called Islamic extremist workplace violence, random act of violence.

[14:35:07] SCIUTTO: But I'm not asking about Islamic extremism. I'm asking about the comment -- the questioner, we have a problem in this country, it is Muslims. They didn't say it is Islamic extremists. It generalized about Muslims in general. Why not challenge that bigotry?

MCENANY: The questioner asked a three-part question. There were three things Donald Trump could have responded to. He chose to laugh off the question. He was dismissive about it, turned his head, didn't get involved in this discussion, which he doesn't have to get involved in this discussion.

It's probably not a good discussion to get involved with all together. Instead he focused on the real problem, the problem that affects every day American people. There are ISIS training camps training people with Islamic theology, it might be radicalized, but it is Islamic theology, to kill Americans. He focused on the important part of the question. He did not need to respond to the questioner.

SCIUTTO: Let me ask you this. We heard just heard Trump talk about the 9/11 attacks. I want to go back to a moment in 2001 right after 9/11, arguably the most sensitive time possibly in our country's history but certainly with the issue of Islamic extremism. You'll remember that President George W. Bush in his address to Congress just nine days after the attacks, here's what he said.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) PRESIDENT GEORGE W. BUSH: I also want to speak tonight directly to Muslims throughout the world. We respect your faith. It's practiced freely by many millions of Americans and by millions more in countries that America counts as friends.

Its teachings are good and peaceful, and those who commit evil in the name of Allah blaspheme the name of Allah. The terrorists are traitors to their own faith, trying in effect to hijack Islam itself

The enemy of America is not our many Muslim friends. Not our many Arab friends. Our enemy is a radical network of terrorists, and every government that supports them.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SCIUTTO: That was nine days after 9/11. There were 3,000 dead Americans. You had the towers in rubble in lower Manhattan. You had the pentagon still shouldering. And President George W. Bush made an effort, a positive effort to say we have no issue with Muslims or Islam. Here you have Donald Trump repeatedly not taking that opportunity. Why is that?

MCENANY: Sure. And I agree with everything George W. Bush said. And the thing is Donald Trump does too. But look at the context. George W. Bush was addressing the nation. Donald Trump said the exact same thing as George W. Bush this morning in a Sunday interview.

SCIUTTO: No, he didn't. He did not say the exact same thing. In fact, he repeated a charge about the president not being a Christian but he didn't say the exact same thing.

MCENANY: Jim, he did in so many words. He said I have a lot of Muslim friends. He went so far yesterday to say he put a Muslim in his cabinet. He is very embracing of the Muslim community. However, his focus is radical Islam.

In the context of this interview, he handled the question the same way I argue George W. Bush did there. But it is not the appropriate forum berate one of your supporters. Let the supporter speak, say what he want, and Donald Trump dismisses the question.

In the full context of the interview this morning, Donald Trump had the same sentiment that we saw George W. Bush had in that speech, I would argue.

SCIUTTO: What if one of the supporters said something racist about blacks in general? Would Donald Trump challenge him?

MCENANY: He was asked that this morning. What the supporter said something along the lines of the problem with this country is blacks? That's an awful statement, but he said I'd let the questioner speak. We have the right to let people speak.

Even if it's a horrible, repulsive thing and it's not necessarily Donald Trump's job to call out every person for something they say that we might not like. MCENANY: Looking at the latest CNN poll, we saw Donald Trump still leading, no question, but he dropped eight points, a fairly significant drop in a short time period, about three weeks, 2-1/2 weeks there, Carly Fiorina jumping. Why do you think his lead diminished?

MCENANY: You know, Carly Fiorina was bold in that debate. I would argue she was the boldest candidate on the stage. She attacked Planned Parenthood, said they're dismembering babies. She attacked the notion there should have to be a female on the $10 bill.

She said women aren't a special interest group. They shouldn't be treated as much. She was bold. She exhibited the same boldness that Donald Trump did. I think that boldness is what's pushing her up in the polls.

SCIUTTO: We appreciate you taking the time and the hard questions particularly on this Sunday. Thanks for joining us.

MCENANY: Thank you, Jim.

SCIUTTO: Don't forget if you didn't see the debate Wednesday night, you can watch it tonight right here on CNN at 8:00 Eastern.

Just an hour and a half from now, Pope Francis will meet with government officials in Cuba. Earlier he had an historic visit with former Cuban President Fidel Castro. We'll have details when we go back live to Havana and my friend, Chris Cuomo after the break.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I really grew up in a lot of different places. When you have things that aren't stable, it kind of gets you in a bad situation. I really felt alone and it turned into me doing the wrong things.

As a former school social worker, I witnessed how challenging it was to engage African-American male and Latino male students in talk therapy. I knew that if I wanted to really engage this group that I would have to do something different.

You're going to have three statements, two that are true about yourself and one that's a lie. Beats rhymes a life is one of the country's first hip-hop therapy are programs where --

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That's what makes me unique.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Our program creates opportunities for youth to reflect and tell their story.

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[14:45:06] UNIDENTIFIED MALE: When I'm rapping, I just let it all go.

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(END VIDEOTAPE)

CHRIS CUOMO, CNN ANCHOR: We are live in Havana, Cuba, for CNN's special coverage of Pope Francis's trip, which is making history at every turn and what he's saying and doing. News just came of a meeting between Pope Francis and former Cuban Leader Fidel Castro. They met at Castro's home.

The pope asked for meeting specifically. It was about 30 minutes or so. He gave Fidel Castro books. He discussed further negotiations with brother, Raul Castro, about how the situation with Cuba and the United States can be advanced.

All this comes on the heels of a mass like no other here in Revolution Square, a big icon of Jesus being added to that of it will revolutionary heroes. It was a big day with tens of thousands in attendance. You're looking at the rest of the day for the pope right now. He's meeting with other Cuban government officials.

Later tonight is the main event after the mass, which is a meeting with 2,000 young people, Wi-Fi or as they say here we wee-fee will be available. Social media encouraged. Remember, this is Cuba, that's unusual. Tens of thousands came for the mass.

They also wanted to be heard. And for that we'll go to Ed Lavandera because some went to extremes to get the pope's attention -- Ed.

ED LAVANDERA, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Chris, this is the scene here. This was filled with tens of thousands probably several hundred thousand here throughout the morning. It's impossible to view. We are with the majority of the people in the crowd.

Many had come at 2:00, 3:00 in the morning to see the scene. People at one point here there was a group of men who were holding up a sign that said "Open Cuba for All Cubans," a sign of protest there, and just here on the edge of the plaza there was an incident where four people were taken away.

They had rushed the pope mobile, had thrown up anti-government leaflets. Those four people were swept away rather quickly. Then there was an announcement over the intercom system in the plaza saying anybody holding up signs and flags should bring them down. So obviously everything that happened here it's impossible to see these spiritual -- this pope's trip is without seeing it through the prism of the political reality here on the ground in Cuba and of that relationship and the normalization of relations between Cuba and the United States.

But that undercurrent of political tension still exists strongly here. We saw that very closely. There was a delegation from Miami, from the archdiocese of Miami, a group of about 200 people who came here.

One woman really stood out, a woman by the name of Martha Serra Mohr. She left Cuba in 1969 as a 10-year-old girl. She returned this weekend with her son for the very first time in 46 years. We spoke with her about what this weekend meant to her.

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MARTHA SERRA MOHR, CUBAN EXILE: I've come to a point in my life that I need to forgive. My family, you know, we were hurt by the regime. I think it's just time. You know, it's time to forgive.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LAVANDERA: Martha was hoping to hear from the pope that message of reconciliation and healing and hope. She says one of the reasons she decided to come back is that she hopes that these visits from other Cuban exiles like her would extend a handle of hope to many in the younger Cuban generation, who she thinks feel hopelessness and lost and not much of a future here. She hopes visits like this will help change that -- Chris.

CUOMO: Ed, thank you for bringing us the story of people who want to come back and yet there's all this tension because of the situation here in Cuba with families who are here, families who are split, the understanding of what comes next, and all of it playing out in real time. The man in the middle is Pope Francis.

As we do our special coverage, part of it will include a documentary we'll bring to you Tuesday night at 9:00 p.m. Eastern about Pope Francis, "The People's Pope." What we do is something a little different. We look at him as the man and his evolution and what led to becoming pope.

[14:50:10] It turns that the man you see today is a lot like the man people remember 50 and 60 years ago. Join us for that Tuesday at 9:00 p.m. Eastern. We have more on what Pope Francis is doing in Cuba, history is being made, my friends. Stay with us.

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MCENANY: The Kentucky clerk who refused to issue marriage licenses to same-sex couples could be in trouble with a federal judge. Davis' deputy clerk, Ryan Mason, reported to the court on Friday that he believes Kim Davis may have tampered with marriage licenses potentially making them invalid and reopening a fresh wound on an emotional court battle over same-sex marriage. [14:55:08] Our Sara Ganim has the latest.

SARA GANIM, CNN CORRESPONDENT: When Kim Davis went back to work last week, she said that she wouldn't stop her deputies from issuing marriage licenses to same-sex couples as long as those licenses didn't have her name or her title on them.

Now one of her deputy clerks, the only one issuing licenses to same- sex couples, says she's taking it a step further. He's concerned and filed a motion with the judge saying Kim Davis came to the office and confiscated all of the original forms and provided a changed form, which deletes all mentions of the county.

Filled in one of the blanks that would otherwise be the county with the clerk's stylings deletes her name and deputy references and in place of the deputy clerk types in the name of Brian Mason, being that clerk.

He also says that this takes it one step further than the marriage license alteration that had been approved by the judge what was happening while she was in jail.

Her attorney responded yesterday not denying she altered these forms, but that it didn't violate the judge's order. She said the licenses were not altered to circumvent the court's order nor did she circumvent the order. Very careful with his language. Sara Ganim, CNN, New York.

SCIUTTO: We'll be right back.

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