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Donald Trump Drops Eight Points in Polls: Carly Fiorina Now Second in National Poll; Pope's Historic Visit to Cuba; Two Americans Held Hostage by Houthi Rebels in Yemen Have Been Released. Aired 3-4p ET

Aired September 20, 2015 - 15:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[15:00:00] JIM SCIUTTO, CNN HOST: The Emmys are tonight. The big one to watch is the outstanding drama category. Seven shows nominated this year. Will it be "Madmen" for its final season or fan favorite "Game of Thrones" or Netflix's hit "Orange is the New Black"? And on the comedy side, will "Modern Family" make history by winning a sixth year in a row or will it fall to "Transparent, Veep," or "Parks and Recreation?" Emmy awards air tonight 8:00 p.m. eastern time.

ANNOUNCER: This is CNN breaking news.

SCIUTTO: And we begin this hour with breaking news. We now have pictures of two American hostages who were released in Yemen earlier today arriving in the Omani capital of Muscat. The captors were held by Houthi rebels in Yemen and their freedom negotiated by the Omanis. One of the captors has been identified as 45-year-old American Scott Darden. That is their plane arriving in Oman. Their release comes at a time of intensified diplomacy in an effort to end Yemen's six-month- old and bloody civil war. We will have much more on this story in just a few minutes.

But let's get to some stunning first poll numbers since the second GOP debate that aired on CNN. Donald Trump still leading the race with 24 percent, but that is a significant eight points lower than just before the debate. Ben Carson, he drops to third place at 14 percent. Marco Rubio seeing a major jump over Jeb Bush. But most notable, Carly Fiorina soaring in into second place with 15 percent of the vote.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CARLY FIORINA (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Now more people know who I am. And we know based on what's happened before this debate that as people come to know me and they understand who I am and what I've done and most importantly what I will do, they tend the support me.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SCIUTTO: Now, as people do get to know her better, her favorability ratings among Republicans are rising too, especially when compared to rival Trump. Look at this, Fiorina has now a two-point lead over Trump since the debate. Joining me now, someone who knows Carly Fiorina very well, that is

representative Nan Hayworth. He is from New York. He is also co- chair of Fiorina's campaign.

Congresswoman, thanks for joining us. Tell us first why do you think we're seeing this jump right now in Carly's support?

REP. NAN HAYWORTH (R), NEW YORK: Well, Carly Fiorina has proven that not only is she exceedingly well qualified, but she's also someone who has done her homework thoroughly. She knows the facts. She had been the leader of a company that had a worldwide presence. She has actually sat down with and met these world leaders. She chaired the external affairs committee for the CIA. So when she cites facts and figure, she's basing it on expertise and on thorough research and preparation. And how refreshing that is. So she speaks authoritatively and convincingly and compellingly and people are responding to that.

SCIUTTO: Listen. I don't want to dismiss particularly powerful moments like we saw during the debate when she answered Donald Trump's comments about her face to applause from the crowd, but she does have questions to answer, for instance, about her business record, why was she in effect fired from that job, why did she then lose a race against Barbara Boxer. These are fair questions. They're hard questions, but they're fair questions. How does she answer those as her popularity rises?

HAYWORTH: Well, Carly has been absolutely fearless as you know, Jim, about taking on the status quo and certainly she did that when she challenged Barbara Boxer, who is one of the ultimate political insider, in a very challenging state, certainly California -- Carly Fiorina clearly doesn't shirk away from a challenge. But in terms of her career at HP, she has said that she is happy to and proud to talk about her record there. She doubled the size of the company. She quadrupled their cash flow. She tripled their --

SCIUTTO: Let's be clear that doubled the size of a company figure is very misleading because she presided over a merger and it wasn't that she grew the profits of the company. That doubling took place because she merged with another company and that merger has been seen years later as one of the biggest failures in the business world in 500 years.

HAYWORTH: Jim, I challenge your premise because Tom Perkins, who as you know runs one of the biggest venture capital firms, who is the most important in Silicon Valley, Kliner Perkins, was one of the board members at HP who actually did vote to fire Carly Fiorina in 2005. And he recently took out a full-page ad in "The New York Times" saying, guess what, we were wrong. It was one of the most dysfunctional corporate boards in history, Carly Fiorina saw it 100 yards down the field things that none of the rest of us did. She was forthright in what she did. And she was correct.

And in fact many companies did not survive that era of the tech bust. HP did. And in the years that followed Carly's tenure, the several years that followed, the country did very well and she has been proven to have had foresight and had been right. Tom Perkins is no one to trifle with, and he is a strong supporter.

[15:05:49] SCIUTTO: Congresswoman Hayworth, thanks for taking the time and for answering the hard questions. We appreciate having you on this Sunday.

HAYWORTH: Pleasure.

SCIUTTO: Now, despite Donald Trump's drop in the polling, he is doubling down on his reaction to those anti-Muslim remarks from a supporter on Thursday night. This morning on NBC's "Meet the Press," he refused to concede even that President Obama is a Christian.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CHUCK TODD, NBC HOST, MEET THE PRESS: Can you imagine supporting or being comfortable with a Muslim ever became president of the United States?

DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I can say that, you know, it's something that at some point could happen. We'll see. I mean, you know, it's something that could happen. Would I be comfortable? I don't know if we have to address it right now. But I think it is certainly something that could happen.

TODD: You said you had no problem putting a Muslim in your cabinet.

TRUMP: Some people have said it already happened, frankly, but of course you wouldn't agree with that.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SCIUTTO: Donald Trump not alone. Now another Republican is saying Muslims do not belong in the White House, presidential hopeful Ben Carson.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TODD: So do you believe that Islam is consistent with the constitution?

BEN CARSON (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: No, I do not. I would not advocate that we put a Muslim in charge of this nation. I absolutely would not agree with that.

TODD: And would you ever consider voting for a Muslim for congress?

CARSON: Congress is a different story but it depend on who that Muslim is and what their process are.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SCIUTTO: We should mention that the U.S. currently does two sitting Muslims congressmen, Democrats Keith Ellison from Minnesota, Andre Carson from Indiana who I had a pleasure speaking with on Friday.

I want to bring in now Anushay Hossain. She is editor of Anushayspoint.com. She is also a practicing Muslim who often speaks on global women's issues. She joins me now on the telephone.

I have to tell you that just as an American I've spent a lot of time in the Middle East, but just as an American, I'm amazed that this kind of conversation is going on in the year 2015. When you hear these comments from Donald Trump or from Ben Carson or also silence from other Republican candidates, not jumping on those comment, does it strike you at outright bigotry?

ANUSHAY HOSSAIN, EDITOR, ANUSHAYSPOINT.COM (on the phone): Well, thank you so much for having me on. And definitely, it is outright bigotry. I don't think there is any debate around that for what side. What we really have to look at who is saying these comments. Both Carson and Trump are playing directly to their base. I mean, welcome to the politics of entertainment or the entertainment of politics. I mean, if there's one thing we can say about both of these candidates, it's that their claims to their base. And I think that the really sad thing that it demonstrates and exposes to us is that (INAUDIBLE) in America in 2015 is very much alive.

SCIUTTO: Is that dangerous to play to the base? It may be politically smart but doesn't that stoke anger, bigotry, other dangers as well? It strikes me as dangerous.

HOSSAIN: It is completely dangerous. It's actually very irresponsible. And to, you know, fear mongering. This is fear mongering 101. And to kind of fan the flames of anti-Muslim sentiment and rhetoric in America is very dangerous. I mean, when did becoming -- being Muslim and being an American become mutually exclusive things? Why is it all of a sudden we're kind of seeing the old chirps from the Bush administration, us versus them? I think we need to look at the fact that you cannot politically be, you know, a leader of this country by alienating minority groups. And I think that that's what we have to ultimately -- there's going to be consequences and I think there were polls this morning showing Trump following behind. And I think his rhetoric is catching up with him.

SCIUTTO: Now, you mentioned the Bush administration here. Donald Trump has said it's not his job to defend the president or to challenge a speaker. It is a first amendment right. You have heard this from others as well. But I want to remind our viewers what happened just nine days after 9/11 when President George W. Bush addressed the Congress. Have a listen to what he said at that very fearful time in America.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GEORGE W. BUSH, FORMER PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I also want to speak tonight directly to Muslims throughout the world. We respect your faith. It's practiced freely by many millions of Americans and by millions more in countries that America counts as friends. Its teachings are good and peaceful, and those who commit evil in the name of Allah. Blaspheme the name of Allah. The terrorists are traitors to their own faith, trying in effect to hijack Islam itself. The enemy of America is not our many Muslim friends. It is not our many Arab friends. Our enemy is a radical network of terrorists and every government that supports them. (END VIDEO CLIP)

[15:10:40] SCIUTTO: Anushay, do you consider an obligation of a leader or putative leader, these people after all are running to be president of the United States? Do you think they have an obligation to make positive comments like that about the Islamic faith?

HOSSAIN: Well, oh my God, first of all, hearing that speech by Bush, you know, he used to say one thing and practice, you know, I guess a very different kind of policy. But of course world leaders have a really big responsibility. We're not in high school anymore someone needs to give Donald Trump that memo. And I think that it's really sad that politicians are seeing it as, you know, an effective tool of politics to kind of tend so directly to their faith.

In the long run, I don't think that a person, a man or a woman who is leading -- who is leading America is going to succeed in a global position by isolating any shape or any group of people.

SCIUTTO: Anushay Hossain, we appreciate your thoughts on this. This is a difficult topic. You are the one who really got to keep talking about. Thanks for joining us.

HOSSAIN: Thanks.

SCIUTTO: And coming up, Hillary Clinton took on Trump this morning. Hear what she had to say about the man stopping the GOP polls.

Plus, the Pope is just about an hour away from a critical meeting with the Castro family. We are going to be live in Havana right after this.

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[15:15:70] CHRIS CUOMO, CNN HOST, NEW DAY: I'm Chris Cuomo live in Havana, Cuba. Thank you for watching CNN special coverage of Pope Francis' historic visit to Cuba.

You can't say the word enough, history, because Pope Francis is making it with everything that he is doing here. Yes, there have been two recent visits of Popes in 1998 and 2012 in Cuba, but never like this one.

A mass this morning attended by tens of thousands, Cuban government says hundreds of thousands, but at least tens of thousands of people here to hear a message from a man and a Pope who has certainly had direct interest and influence on what people here want the most, which is a rapprochement between Cuba and America in the context of the promise of more freedoms. And that is the man that came to them in the form of Pope Francis today. He was almost a symbol of something better, not only to the faithful, but those who are simply the hopefuls.

So that mass happened today. Right after it, big news, the meeting everybody had been talking about and speculating on, Pope Francis met with Fidel Castro. What happened? Here is what we know. About 30 minutes or so, it was said to not be a

business meeting, informal, congenial, gifts were exchange. Fidel Castro had expressed an interest in wanting books, Pope Francis gave him books. His family was there. He wished him well. And this is a step in the direction according to the Vatican of galvanizing relations here in the interest of progress. And we certainly seen that with the relationship of Raul Castro and Pope Francis.

What will that mean when he goes to the United States? How will he carry forward his message after this mass? We'll have to see.

This afternoon he's meeting with the heads of state here, the minister officials for the regime. That is typical. The Vatican is a sovereign and his secretary of state will meet the secretary of state here and so on. The big meeting comes after that at about 6:30. Now, that is where he is going to meet with 2,000 young people. And at the insistence of the Vatican, the government of Cuba will provide Wi-Fi or as they say in Spanish here wee-fee.

The church provided the equipment but the authorization comes from the government and the young people meeting there will be encouraged by the Pope and the government to use social media and talk about what life is like in Cuba.

Now, this is the set-up, obviously, for the pope going to the United States. You are looking at the schedule in front of you. You get there, September 22nd, he will be the first Pope to address Congress. Why? Because he was invited. By who? Speaker Boehner. Why did he do that? Now, that is an interesting question. He is a Catholic but they have to know Pope Francis is coming with a message that is not exactly going to be embracing of everything that happens within Washington, D.C. So, this is a special trip, every step along the way. Our Rosa Flores got to be at that first step where Pope Francis left Rome, came here on the plane.

Here is Rosa now. You are all excited about it. I couldn't get a word in edge wise when you first talking to me on the plane.

ROSA FLORES, CNN CORRESPONDENT: I was excited.

CUOMO: Also a big personal moment for you. Tell us about it.

FLORES: You know, it was such a great moment because it was Pope Francis on this plane with a lot of very excited journalists. More than 140 journalist actually applied to be on that plane, Chris, 70 of us were actually allowed on the plane. CNN was given one seat, and that was for me. I was excited and humble.

But it's a lot of excitement on that plane because it is the first leg. It is the Pope leaving Rome and arriving here in Cuba. And you know, we've been hearing a few words like you mentioned, the words peace, the world's freedom, and so we're all listening to see if we're getting clues about what his message is going to be in the United States and that's what we looked at. Take a look.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE) FLORES (voice-over): The Pope's visit to the U.S. was supposed to be all about Philadelphia and families. But he insert of stop in Cuba, a cameo before in the U.S. Congress, and a speech at the U.N., and the visit could create a trinity of tension.

First Havana, where the Vatican's influence helped ease 60-plus years of cold war animosity between the U.S. and Cuba.

MICHAEL MURPHY, DIRECTOR, CATHOLIC STUDIES, LOYOLA UNIVERSITY, CHICAGO: There is a checkered and comply catted past, but that's the past. The Pope is about living in the present and moving forward.

FLORES: During President Raul Castro's Vatican meeting with Francis earlier this year, the communist leader said he plans to attend every mass celebrated by Francis. With Castro in the pews, will the Pope scorn the country's history of human rights violations and lack of religious freedom? Pope Francis told students in Cuba Thursday through video conference he'd like to see friendship between the U.S. and Castro's communist nation saying --

POPE FRANCIS, CATHOLIC CHURCH LEADER (through translator): One of the most beautiful things is social friendship. This is what I would like to be able to achieve, social friendship.

FLORES: Whatever the Pope says in Cuba will set the stage for a major address before a divided house in American Congress. During his recent visit to South America, Francis called capitalism the dung of the devil. But will he utter those words inside the nation's capital? And what about those presidential candidates?

[15:20:17] TRUMP: We have to build a wall, folks.

FLORES: That charged anti-immigration rhetoric, polar opposite to the Pope.

MURPHY: I'm not sure if he is worried about alienating people. I mean, he will be encouraging. But he speaks the truth.

FLORES: His speech before the United Nations at a time that hundreds of thousands of Christians are fleeing persecution in Syria, Iraq, and Afghanistan. Will he put world leaders in the hot seat, asking them to do more to help refugees? Or will he praise the nations who have already accepted thousands?

No one really knows what Francis will say during his more than 20 speeches. If he speaks off the cuff, Cuba, Congress, and the United Nations better get ready for a coming to Jesus moment.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

FLORES: And we definitely could experience a coming-to-Jesus moment. I'm traveling with the Pope. So if you have a question for the Pope, tweet me with #askthePope.

CUOMO: That's a good line, a coming-to-Jesus moment. He's known to go off script as you know, Rosa, but so far here in Cuba he's stuck to the script.

Now, when he leaves here and goes to the United States, he will address the Congress. He will be the first Pope to do that, invited again by speaker Boehner. And you'll have a man in the form of Pope Francis who is all about unity going to one of the least unified places on the planet.

So let's talk to one of our elected representatives from the U.S., Gerry Connolly, a congressman out of Virginia, Democrat. Congressman, can you hear us?

REP. GERRY CONNOLLY (D), VIRGINIA: I sure can. How are you, Chris?

CUOMO: Doing well, sir. Thanks for joining us.

So you have the Pope coming to you. He's referred to capitalism as devil dung. That's not good. He's probably not going to be that scornful when he comes in there, but what do you expect to hear from the Pope and what do you think the plus/minus is on this occasion?

CONNOLLY: This is a very smart, intelligent man. I don't think he's going to come to the Congress and deliberately drive wedges on issues. I think he brings a message of a tolerance and inclusivity. And the most famous thing he said, in my opinion, is when he expressed that phase, who am I to judge? Toning down the judgment, the divisions, the instability, we could benefit from. And I think that part of his message is something very welcome.

CUOMO: What will not be welcome?

CONNOLLY: I'm sure if he gets into specific issues there are going to be different kinds of reactions. But we, Democrats, obviously, welcome his emphasis on climate change and environmental stewardship. My friends on the other side of the aisle welcome that less.

But I do think that he is going to be well received. I think everyone is going to be on their best behavior and I think it's a historic event. The history of Catholicism in America has been very uneven. We were a suspect immigrant foreign religion for a long time. So the fact that the head of that church is finally invited to address the joint session, I think is a historic moment in coming to closure on that chapter of intolerance in American history.

CUOMO: Here's a guess that something that will come out of the Pope that will be a challenge to both sides of the aisle. The first will be looking at your side of aisle and say, you know, talk is cheap, and immigrants, big problem with the policy, big problem with respect of people, big problem with lack of leadership. You've been in power. You said you were going to do something about it and you haven't. Fair criticism? And what's the response?

CONNOLLY: I'd be real surprised if the Pope said that, Chris.

CUOMO: Why? It's true.

CONNOLLY: Because I don't think he wants to play politics. I do think he will have a message about our responsibility to our fellow human beings, immigrants, legal or illegal, refugees as is going on in Europe today, and on my side of the aisle that will be a very welcome message.

CUOMO: Right, but it's going to be about the action, not just the talk. And that's the big distinction about what the Pope is calling for and what we've seen, at least on that issue in the United States. I think for the other side of the aisle, it is going to be a more of a religious context, not that people in your party can't be religious, but it is become more badge, these conservative values do seem to smack of Christian themes more often than not. And I think from the Pope what we've been hearing down here would be the message of don't say it, live it, similar in terms of, you know, the policy mandate with immigration. But how do you think that will resonate?

CONNOLLY: Well, I guess I'd pressed, Chris. I don't think either party has a lock on whose religious or spirituality. I would point out to you that half of all the Catholics in Congress are Democrats. So we are split - you know, half-and-half. And all of us have a well spring of spirituality that informs us. And I think what he's saying is there are values, there's doctrine, he hasn't changed that, but he has changed the ton tone. Let's be a little theoretical about that. Let's be a little bit more open to the other point of view. And at the same time, as you suggest, he's calling us to responsibility whether it's immigration, whether it is human life, whether it's the environment.

[15:25:36] CUOMO: Right. And I guess the hope is that, Congressman, that when he comes, he is somebody who is clearly non-partisan by definition. And when he comes in there, the message of unity and what the focus of our intentionality of service is supposed to be will remind it's not always about putting the other guy down, and sometimes it's about lifting the each other up.

CONNOLLY: That's exactly right.

CUOMO: Congressman, I appreciate you being here. I look forward to your reaction after the speech and we'll talk again then, I hope.

CONNOLLY: Thank you, Chris.

CUOMO: Al right. Thanks for joining us on this Sunday, Congressman.

So we have got much more about the Pope from Havana. Literally every time he's taking a step at these meetings, they're all historic because of what his motivations are. Doesn't cheapen the term. It actually enriches it because of what his goals are.

We are also going to talk to you about a special documentary we have that will lay out who the man is in Pope Francis like you've never seen before. Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[15:30:08] SCIUTTO: Two Americans who have been held captive by Houthi rebels in Yemen are now free. They were released earlier today and taking to the Omani capital of Muscat. The move comes during a time of increased diplomacy in an effort to - and Yemen's bloody six months civil war.

Senior international correspondent Nick Paton Walsh has more from Beirut.

NICK PATON WALSH, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Jim, this flight by the Omani government from Sanaa, Yemen to the capital Muscat ending a months-long ordeal for two Americans here. Scott Darden, but also a man known as Sam Farran.

Now, Mr. Darden was there working for a (INAUDIBLE) company. Little else is known about Mr. Farran and what brought him to be in Yemen. But the fate of a third American unclear at this stage. He was not on that plane and there was much confusion, frankly, during this day about whether or not there were three Americans on board, one diplomat is a-in Sanaa speaking to me and other Yemeni officials believe that was the case. It clearly wasn't on that plane, though, as well.

As many as three Saudi nationals, that's according to Oman state television, and a UK official confirming to me that there was a Britain traveling on that plane as well from Sanaa to Muscat. When he landed, he received consular assistance from the British embassy there.

So clearly, this tense set of negotiations, the Omani officials apparently involved as well as Americans, have brought these two individuals plus others to safety. We understand that perhaps a Houthi delegation were on that plane traveling to Oman as well. They, according to diplomat I spoke to, may be in Oman to try and start up again peace talks.

Now, the Houthis have been in a months-long brutal civil war now against the Saudi-led coalition that are battling the former Yemeni government in Yemen. The Houthis frankly have been losing a lot of ground. They saying circles and heavily bombarded in the capital Sanaa and the U.N. tried to broker a peace process.

The diplomat I spoke to said that this hostage release, captive release, call it what you will, perhaps a goodwill gesture to get the peace talks started again. That may happen in Oman in the days ahead or it may not.

The diplomat I spoke to very pessimistic, frankly, feeling that a Saudi coalition believes it has the military upper hand and may pursue a more military option rather than letting peace talks go through. But civilians losing their lives frequently in Yemen, 2,000 so far, a total of nearly 5,000 having died in the this conflict. But today for two American families at least some good news, their loved ones to safety - Jim.

SCIUTTO: Nick Paton Walsh from Beirut, thank you.

With Bernie Sander's poll numbers climbing and vice president Biden considering entering the race, is Hillary Clinton's campaign in trouble? Next, we'll talk to a veteran journalist who knows the former

secretary of state well. Carl Bernstein joining us next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[15:35:57] SCIUTTO: Democratic presidential front-runner Hillary Clinton issued a strong, stern warning today to Republican front- runner Donald Trump. She says his refusal to rebuke anti-Muslim remarks from one of his supporters is dangerous.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

HILLARY CLINTON (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: He is fuelling a level of paranoia and prejudice against all kind of people. And when you light those fires you better recognize that they can get out of control, and he should start dampening them down and putting them out.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SCIUTTO: Joining me now, Hillary Clinton biographer and CNN political analyst Carl Bernstein, who wrote "a woman in charge: the life of Hillary Rodham Clinton."

Good to have you on, Carl. Thanks for taking the time today.

CARL BERNSTEIN, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Good to be with you.

SCIUTTO: So can I ask you this? Did you think Hillary Clinton would ever have imagined that she would be duking it out in this race with Donald Trump?

BERNSTEIN: No. And Trump is a real gift to the Democrats and Hillary Clinton, but at the same time something else is happening. And that is that the people close to Hillary Clinton, a number of them, believe the wheels are starting to come off her campaign. And it's because of her own lack of truthfulness to some extent, as well as playing into the hands of her enemies on the servers and other issues. And it's a self-destructive enterprise her campaign thus far. And they're worried that Biden is going to come into this race. And people tell me that he very probably will come into the race. And the fact of her being the nominee is by no means a certain thing right now as her campaign wobbles and the wheels get looser and looser.

SCIUTTO: You know, on the Biden possible bid, NBC News reported earlier today that Jill Biden, his wife, would not stand in the way, making clear she would not stand in the way if he decided to get in. And Biden's advisers did not challenge that report, seeming to accept it as true. You say you've spoke on the people close to Biden. You think he's going to run.

BERNSTEIN: Well, I talked, as you know, for several weeks I've been saying people around him on air, I have been saying, believe that he is increasingly moving towards running. It's still undecided from what I understand. I think what happens on October 22nd when Hillary testifies before the Benghazi committee might have a real influence on whether or not Biden goes in, though he might announce earlier than that.

This committee of Congress is on a witch-hunt after Hillary Clinton. But again, she has played into their hands by her inability to be open and truthful. And Biden is aware of this and Biden wants to run. Does he have the fire? Increasingly, we're been told he does. He believes he can go, but wants to wait a little bit more to make his decision.

SCIUTTO: Let me ask you this. Campaigns, of course, full of surprises. Donald Trump is one of them. Carly Fiorina, I wonder if you think that in Clinton's mind she might be concerned that 2016 may very well produce the first female president of the United States, but not Hillary Clinton.

BERNSTEIN: I think that Carly Fiorina's emergence as a serious possibility of being on the ticket makes Democrats even more wary of Hillary Clinton and that's the problem the Clinton campaign is now looking at. Fiorina is ascendency is bad for the Clinton campaign. And again, helps fuel Biden's ambitions.

This whole thing is up for grabs. Donald Trump, among other things, has totally upended what this election campaign, the 2000 presidential campaign, is about. Now he's on his way out perhaps, he's fading, he's a demagogue, he's demonstrated his ignorance of many, many facts in the debates that he's been featured. He can't handle serious questioning. He's got a big following but it's starting to dissipate perhaps. But he has defined this campaign's and to Hillary Clinton's disadvantage. So now perhaps by going after Donald Trump as we've just seen her do, she could get some muscle back in the game.

But Joe Biden is very much on the horizon, worrying her advisers, and also the fact that now as Trump fades that other more credible candidates, even if they repeat much of Donald Trump's stands on the issue, they do it in a more palatable way. Yes, it enables the Democrats to paint the Republican message as far to the right, continuing to hammer after Rove V. Wade, which is not a winning issue for the Republicans, the Democrats believe, and especially not a winning issue of Hillary Clinton or Joe Biden, Biden a Catholic, is the head of the ticket.

But really her campaign is the big story along with Trump right now. And both are showing signs of fading. But the real thing is that people who believe in Hillary Clinton, who have wanted her to win all along are now having doubts. And some of them very angry at her because they think she's endangered the Democrats' chances of winning by this -- you know, if you look at the book I wrote, "a woman in charge," I say since her Arkansas years, Hillary Clinton's had a difficult relationship to the truth.

Now, it is not different than many other politicians. What she's always said, well, I'm different than other politicians. I stand for something better. Now this pattern that goes all the way back is coming to define her as well as how good she is on the issues. She's great on the issues. Problem with truth is a big problem.

[15:41:39] SCIUTTO: We are going to have to leave it there. Wide- open race. We are going to be watching it closely. Great to have you on as always.

BERNSTEIN: Good to be with you.

SCIUTTO: We are less than 30 minutes away from an historic meeting in the Cuban capital. President Raul Castro will meet one-on-one with Pope Francis. We're live in Havana with a preview right after this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[15:45:37] CUOMO: We are in Havana, Cuba, with special coverage of Pope Francis' historic visit to this island. And it has already been history in the making, the size of the crowd, the message, the import with the regime. How about this for persuasive and historic? Raul Castro returning to Catholicism. You laugh, but don't laugh too quickly.

Let's bring in Patrick Oppmann. It should be a joke because this is a communist regime. They rejected religion. But he's been inching back towards the Pope at least on a political level. But what else could be there?

PATRICK OPPMANN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: You know, there's a friendship. And you are right. A lot of people did laugh when he said it, and he said it's not a joke. And we are going to be looking very closely in the next few days if there any more signs of Raul Castro returning to his long-ago abandoned Catholicism.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

OPPMANN (voice-over): It was supposed to be a photo-op. The Pope meets the president of Cuba. Then Raul Castro went off script, way off script.

If the Pope continues talking like this, he says, I may go back to the church and start praying again. I am not joking.

It could have been Castro's way of thanking the Pope for playing a crucial role in restoring U.S./Cuban relations. If Castro is thinking returning to the fold, it would be quite a turnaround.

Over three decades his revolution all but banned religion. His comments weren't a complete surprise to Cuba's cardinal, Jaime Ortega, who told CNN that in his office, the Cuban leader has a statue of (INAUDIBLE), a version of the Virgin Mary that looks similar to this.

He was supposed to give the statue to Pope Benedict but then he changed his mind.

Many people who visited his office told him that it was really nice, the cardinal says, and that he should leave it there and have another one made for the Pope, and that's what happened. He gave another one to the Pope when he came and that one stayed in his office.

During his trip to Cuba, the Pope and Raul Castro will be seeing a lot of each other. And we are Havana's Revolution Square where the Pope will deliver his

first mass in Cuba. What's different, though, about this papal trip, really, unprecedented, is that Raul Castro will not only be in Havana. He'll be at all three of the masses the Pope gives while he's in Cuba. Many people say it's beyond a symbol of respect that it is actually a sign of the friendship that's been developed between these two very different men.

Francis' biographer, Austin Ivereignh, says changing the U.S./Cuban relationship is a crucial part of the Pope's foreign policy and future legacy.

AUSTIN IVEREIGH, AUTHOR, THE GREAT REFORMER: Look. I think he's coming here because this is part of the process which began with the restoration of those diplomatic ties. So I think he's coming to build bridge. He is coming to heal wounds. The fact that he's going from Cuba to the United States I think is highly significant. I think the sea between Miami and Havana is to this papacy what the Berlin Wall was to John Paul II.

OPPMANN: So far church leaders say there is no sign that Raul Castro has returned to religion. But Pope Francis says he wants to build bridges and heal old wounds in Cuba. And perhaps in the unlikeliest of places and people restore some faith.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

CUOMO: You told me that if John Paul II helped bring down the wall that Francis' legacy might be building this bridge. Let me ask you something. To this date we don't know that he has really pushed Raul Castro about what the regime does, what it should not do, and how it should change. And in Raul's message yesterday, it was all about what he wants out of U.S./Cuba's situation, not what he's willing to give.

OPPMANN: He talked to U.S. negotiators and said that Cuban negotiators are some of the toughest in the world to deal with, a very top-down hierarchical system, Raul Castro does what he wants to do, very hard man, intimidating. Pope Francis might be one of the few world leaders, though, who has a little leverage there, though, Chris.

CUOMO: What would the leverage be? If he says, hey, you have to let all these people out, you have to do this, you have to do that, what is to keep Raul Castro from saying, you know, I'm leaving in two years. I'm not going out being as being a sucker to some Pope, you know. And to put it in press language, and say I'm not doing anything that you want?

OPPMANN: Raul Castro, he knows, he needs a church. The church is involve here. The church (INAUDIBLE). Failures have left a lot of people on the cold there. And the church is stepping in a big, big way. It's helped to build a bridge. Something Raul Castro needed very badly to the United States.

You know, a lot of people feel they're owed by the government, but Pope Francis definitely is a big chip. We'll see how much Raul Castro is willing to give. [15:50:02] CUOMO: Patrick Oppmann, very insightful piece. Like it,

provocative as well. We

We are going to take a quick break. When we come back, we have more coverage and we are going to tell you about a very special documentary we've done for you called "the People's Pope," Tuesday night 9:00 p.m. eastern. To understand the Pope, you need to know who he is. We go back to where he's from, where he grew up, we talk to those who know him best. And then you'll understand.

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[15:54:36] SCIUTTO: Checking our top stories now.

The wildfire is raging across as far as of Northern California have now destroyed more than 1,000 homes. The valley and butte fires are mostly contained now. Both infernos have burned more than 145,000 acres. At least five people have died.

Attorneys for a former student at the elite St. Paul's prep school have file a motion to appeal his felony conviction. Owen Labrie was found guilty of using a computer to seduce a minor. A charge that carries a sentence up to seven years in state prison. Labrie was initially accused of raping a 15-year-old classmate. He was acquitted of that charge and two other serious sexual assault charges.

Famed British author Jackie Collins has passed away. The bestselling novelist died Saturday in Los Angeles from breast cancer. Collins was best known for the salacious book "Hollywood Wives." She was 77 years old.

History could be made tonight at the Emmy awards an African-American woman could win for outstanding lead actress in a drama series for the first time. Viola Davis and Tehraji Henson are both nominated for the award for their roles in "How to get away with murder" and "Empire." They are up against Claire Danes, Robin Wright, Elizabeth Moss and Tatiana Maslany (ph). The Emmys air tonight at 8:00 eastern.

And coming up next, the Pope is just moments away from a meeting with Raul Castro. We're live in Cuba coming up. The next hour of CNN NEWSROOM starts after a quick break.

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SCIUTTO: Hello. I want to welcome our viewers in America and around the world. I'm Jim Sciutto, in today for Fredricka Whitfield. And we are following several developing stories today.