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Donald Trump Drops Eight Points In Polling; Carly Fiorina Skyrockets To Second In GOP, According To New Polling; Pope Makes Historic Visit To Cuba. Aired 5-6p ET

Aired September 20, 2015 - 17:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[17:00:55] POPPY HARLOW, CNN ANCHOR: Hi, everyone, 5:00 eastern this Sunday evening. I'm Poppy Harlow. You are in the CNN NEWSROOM. Thank you for joining us. We're watching two big stories this hour, politics and the Pope.

Right now, Pope Francis taking Cuba by storm, making his way through the streets of Havana to cheers and cheers and huge crowds. He will hold evening prayers with catholic leaders tonight. He will also meet with thousands of young people at a cultural center. Coming up, we'll take you there live.

But first we begin with presidential politics and a brand new poll that shows a dramatic reshuffling after fireworks of last week's Republican debate. Take a look at this. Donald Trump still in first place but his lead has dropped by eight points. He is now at 24 percent. It is a real bombshell though. Take a look at what who behind him. Carly Fiorina rocketing into second place with 15 percent. Just squeaking by Ben Carson who is in third at 14 percent.

CNN's Sunlen Serfaty joins me now with more on the numbers and the candidate who is polling so low, so low he didn't even make the list. Let's start with that candidate who is, by the way, winning in Iowa not too long ago.

SUNLEN SERFATY, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: That's right. That's Wisconsin governor Scott Walker, Poppy, who, as you noted, has been just a few months ago up in the polls in Iowa. He's really seen his support really plummet. This latest poll really confirms that. He's barely registering in this poll. Now coming in at an asterisk which means he has less than one-half of a percentage point.

But across the seal this whole really does show how much debate has really shaken up the race especially when you compare it to those numbers just last month. I'll show the comparison now. Donald Trump, as you said, he is still the front-runner but he is really on a downward slide sliding eight percentage points in the past three weeks. Compare that to Carly Fiorina. She has leaped up 12 percentage points. That's a huge gain in really that only three weeks of time. And certainly the energy we have seen here over the weekend has confirmed her momentum.

Now, meanwhile, as Donald Trump is seeing his support really slide, he is still faced with a will the of questions on the campaign trail from that moment that happened last week with that supporter at one of his town halls not only for failing to correct the supporter that -- who claims that President Obama is a Muslim and that President Obama is not American, but also for not disputing the notion when he said that Muslims are a problem in the United States.

Now, today on "STATE OF THE UNION" Jake Tapper asked Donald Trump if he has a responsibility to correct things like that. Here is how he responded.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Well, you know, we could be politically correct, if you want. But certainly, are you trying to say we don't have a problem because I think everybody would agree. I have friends that are Muslim. They are great people, amazing people. And most Muslims, like most everything. I mean, these are fabulous people. But we certainly do have a problem. I mean, you have a problem throughout the world.

JAKE TAPPER, CNN CHIEF WASHINGTON CORRESPONDENT: What's the problem?

TRUMP: You have radicals that are doing things. I mean, it wasn't people from Sweden that blew up the world trade center, Jake.

TAPPER: I get that, but to say we have a problem and it's called Muslims because there are some extremist Muslims is tarring all Muslims. You would agree --

TRUMP: No, I don't agree with that at all. But you have extremist Muslims that are in a class by themselves. I mean, they are -- it's a problem in this country and it is a problem throughout the world.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SERFATY: And Donald Trump this weekend, while on the campaign trail, he was confronted by a student who asked him if he could consider putting a Muslim on his ticket or even putting a Muslim in his cabinet. Now, Donald Trump, Poppy, responded that he would adding he does not have a problem with that -- Poppy.

HARLOW: All right, Sunlen, thank you very much.

And for all you have watching, coming up in the 7:00 p.m. hour, I'll be joined by one of the two Muslim congressmen in this country to get his take on all of this. Stay with us for that.

Let's talk about the new poll numbers and the changing Republican race with who better, Larry, Sabato, director for the center of politics at the University of Virginia.

Thank you for being with me, sit. Let's begin with the fact that, you know, Carly Fiorina is the headline of this poll. A month ago she wasn't even going to be on the main debate stage. Not only is there she's in second place. On top of that our CNN poll found 52 percent of people polled thought she did hands down, best job at the debate. Surprised at all?

[17:05:19] LARRY SABATO, DIRECTOR FOR CENTER OF POLITICS, UNIVERSITY OF VIRGINIA: No. I think that proves they were paying attention. It been a long debate. They must have been watching. It wasn't even close. And I literally don't know gain observer of politics who doesn't think Carly Fiorina won that debate. And she won it be a mile. So she's got a moment. And I think Marco Rubio also has a moment. They have to capitalize on this moment because those moments don't come very often. And if you don't capitalize on then they quickly slip away.

HARLOW: I think there's no question she's capitalizing on it. But if you look back at her Senate race in 2010 in California against Barbara Boxer, who she lost to, in "New York Times' article this morning, one of the leaders at the Boxer campaign at that time said they were really nervous when she entered the race about how she was going to do against their candidate. Ultimately, she didn't prevail. How does she do it this time around and prevail and sort of makeup for what she did, wasn't able to succeed in 2010?

SABATO: I would assume she has a better answer to the questions that are coming about her stewardship of Hewlett-Packard. We all know the facts, losing 30,000 employees where she fired them. And she was fired as CEO.

Look. She has to have better answer than she gave in California. But let me balance that by saying running as a Republican in California against a Democratic incumbent, California is deeply blue, deeply Democratic. It's not surprising she lost.

HARLOW: Let me ask you this. Donald Trump, OK, he still number one, not questioning that, but he fell eight points. How do you explain that slide?

SABATO: If you were watching the debate, I don't think he was very impressive. Of course, he was attacked on all sides. When you're attacked by everybody and, again, it's a three-hour debate, I think probably it got to him whether he admitted to it or not. And everyone has commented correctly on the fact that for 37 minutes Donald Trump was quiet, probably for the first time in his life.

HARLOW: He's doubling down on the fact that he did not correct that supporter Thursday at a town hall for calling President Obama a Muslim and not American and saying we have a problem with Muslims in this country. At the same time you've got 29 percent of Americans who actually think the president is a Muslim, which is incorrect. And you've got 54 percent of the Trump supporters who think that. Is this strategically smart for him to do or does this hurt him in the long run as someone running to be the leader of the free world?

SABATO: Well, he's backed up a bit on it and for Donald Trump I think that's all you can probably expect. And because of the numbers you just cited, Poppy, this is not going to be a problem for him within the Republican universe. He's got a lot of other problems but that isn't one of them. HARLOW: I want you to listen what Ben Carson, fall in number three

right now at that CNN/ORC poll, what Ben Carson had to say this morning about Muslims in the White House.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CHUCK TODD, NBC HOST, MEET THE PRESS: So do you believe that Islam is consistent with the constitution?

BEN CARSON (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: No I do not. I would not advocate that we put a Muslim in charge of this nation. I absolutely would not agree with that.

TODD: And you, would you ever consider voting for a Muslim for Congress?

CARSON: Congress is a different story. But it depends on who that Muslim is and what their policies are.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HARLOW: What does that do to Ben Carson?

SABATO: Well again, within the Republican universe, and in the universe of its own supporters, I doubt it hurts him very much. But I think it's important to note that the constitution of the United States which is often mentioned in these Republican debate, the constitution for bids are religious tests for office. That's vital.

HARLOW: That's a very important point. And the question is even if it helps you in the primary, if you are able to win the primary, what does it do to you and general election when people will be pointing back to those comments.

Larry Sabato, thank you very much.

SABATO: Thank you, Poppy.

HARLOW: In case you missed it, 23 million people watched. But if you are one of the ones who didn't, the CNN Republican debate replays tonight 8:00 eastern only on CNN.

Straight ahead, we will take you live to Cuba. Pope Francis is right now touring the streets of Havana. What will he say to church leaders and the youth there tonight? That's next.

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[17:12:40] HARLOW: Pope Francis, his first full day in Cuba and it was a busy one. Take a look.

(VIDEO CLIP PLAYING)

HARLOW: Thousands of catholic faithful packed Havana's revolution square for first of two masses scheduled for the Pope's visit in Cuba. He told the crowd serve people not ideas. A bit of excitement before the mass when the Pope's security team had to physically remove at least four men from the crowd who were seemingly running at the Pope. They were tried to force some leaflets into the Pope's lands. We're not sure what was on them. And the Pope met face-to-face with Fidel Castro today. Look at that. That picture that will certainly go down in history. It was a private meeting. No details have been released. But Vatican officials describe their time together as friendly and informal.

Rosa Flores is in Havana. She traveled on the pope's plane. He blessed her. I'm still sort of amazed by all of that, Rosa. But tell me about his time there thus far. How has it been? What is the main message he's sending?

ROSA FLORES, CNN CORRESPONDENT: The people here receiving him with open arms. He comes here as a missionary of mercy. That's the motto of the trip here to Cuba. But earlier today, thousands of people packed this square. And Poppy, so much symbolism and so much juxtaposition as well because the mass happening in square known for the revolution, for the Cuban revolution, for communism with icons of the revolutionary war all around us. And then a Jesus and then Pope Francis and an altar and the ceremony actually happening.

And then after that he met with Fidel Castro. And the chat was about for 40 minutes at Castro's home. His family were also there, probably about 15 members of his family. They exchanged gifts, we are told. And it was described as a very friendly chat, not formal at all. Simply the Pope visiting with Fidel Castro and then now, of course, he's headed to the cathedral where he will be speaking there. And we're going to see, Poppy, because he hasn't gone off script so far, but he is speak in Spanish here in Cuba. So we are going to have to see what happens. And then after that he visits with the youth which - I mean, the youth is really near and dear to his heart.

[17:15:15] HARLOW: And tomorrow, I know he has another sort of full day there before he boards the plane again to come here to the United States. What do we expect tomorrow?

FLORES: Well tomorrow, actually, I have to wake up very early, Poppy, to get on the plane with the Pope and we are heading to (INAUDIBLE). Now, here is one of the interest things about (INAUDIBLE). Fidel Castro, they're from that province. And he is going to be blessing hill. There's a wooden cross that date back to about the 1700s. And so, he is going to be blessing that cross. He is going to have a mass at revolution square there. So imagine the symbols that we saw here but in the province where Fidel Castro is from, where he was born, where he grew up. We are going to see a replica of this tomorrow.

HARLOW: All right. Have amazing time, Rosa. Once in a lifetime experience, I' sure. Thank you for that.

Let's talk more about it with David Gibson here with me, reporter for religion news service, author of the book and the series, you have probably seen here on CNN, "Finding Jesus, Faith, Fact and Forgery." Thank you for being here.

DAVID GIBSON, REPORTER, RELIGION NEWS SERVICES: Great to be here again.

HARLOW: Let's talk first about speaking to the youth and how significant that is because I know the focus of those remarks will be on hope and talking about it. How much hope does the youth in Cuba have versus the youth elsewhere in the world?

GIBSON: That's really and we saw that picture of Francis meeting with Fidel Castro. That's the past. You know, it is important to remember, and I was there in Cuba in 1998 when John Paul II came for the first time. He met with Fidel. Pope Benedict XVI met with Fidel Castro three years ago. The news would have been if Francis had not met with Fidel.

Look at him. He's an aging man. He's the past. What Francis is looking to now is the future. And that's the message of hope and that message of get out there and do something. Make the new revolution. Make the new future for Cuba.

HARLOW: I think it's interesting in these remarks that he's making for the youth tonight. He points to an African proverb and he says if you want to go fast, go alone. If you want to go far, go with others. I'm wondering if you read that, given the fact that this is the pope who really help to bring together the United States and Cuba and falling a diplomatic relations. Is that a sort of subtle message to Cuba, Cuban leaders? Open up more, embrace those outside of you. Those with different believes and cultures?

GIBSON: Yes, very much so. And that's the message he's also going to bring to the United States in a couple of days. But it's really interesting the line he had at the mass earlier today when he said, you know, Christianity is not ideology. Service is not ideology. We serve people not ideas. That's, you know, direct shot, if you will, at the Castros and at the communist regime. It's all about ideology. He's saying no, no, this is about services. This is about moving together. This isn't some, you know, pursuing someone's agenda at the point of a gun or whatever it might be. This is about everybody moving together in solidarity. Solidarity in your society, solidarity internationally with United States. Everyone together.

HARLOW: Is it too soon for us to know how this Pope has succeed in in bringing more people back into the fold, back into the church? What we do know is that three million catholic have left the Catholic Church in just the last eight years or so. Is he going to turn that around?

GIBSON: In Cuba?

HARLOW: No. In the world.

GIBSON: In the world. I mean, that really is a long term project. There are some signs. And it depends where you're talking about. The faith really is doing quite well in a lot of areas. In Africa, when you reported that proverbs, it is doing really well in Asia and some other areas. Obviously, here in the United States it's facing real challenges. And there's some hints, some glimmers from the polls that, you know, people are really giving the Catholic Church a second look because of Pope Francis. But it's going to be a long term project. And much will depend on how well he does during his five, six days here in the United States.

HARLOW: Millenials. I mean, we have seen the data shows millenials, young people in this country are not just sort of pulling out of Catholic Church. They're pulling away from organized religion in general. He's speaking to the youth of Havana tonight. Do you see this as a Pope that resonates much more with young people? Maybe even young people who do not have the same believes as him but see him as more open than past Popes.

GIBSON: Yes, very much. That's great point. He does resonate with them. In fact, the places, he get some of these greatest oppositions is within the church, and within the old line, old guard within the Catholic Church itself. But young people see him as someone they can directly connect with. He is like their favorite pastor at their parish.

It is also, you know, everyone talks about his authenticity and the source of his popularity. The bottom line is he is someone who is at the top of the Catholic Church here who is saying we have to look from ourselves first. That's a message young people want to hear. They don't want just an institution or leader, just finger wagging saying, no. Do as I say. He says no, no. We, he says I, have to walk the walk not just talk the talk.

[17:20:25] HARLOW: It's been extraordinary to watch and it will be as he comes here to the United States even here in New York City.

GIBSON: It is going to be an amazing time.

HARLOW: They will be. Thank you, David.

GIBSON: Thanks.

HARLOW: Appreciate it, David Gibson.

Coming up next to politics, she's gone from Washington outsider to one of the GOP front-runners. We're going to tell you more about exactly who Carly Fiorina is and why her time at the helm of Hewlett-Packard is so critical in this race and why it's causing so much controversy, next.

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[17:24:41] HARLOW: Well, Hillary Clinton has seen her support shrank among Democrats, there's another woman certainly making waves in the race for the presidency and she has rising poll numbers. Today, former CEO - former Hewlett-Packard CEO Carly Fiorina is riding a huge bump following her performance from Wednesday's GOP presidential debate.

Our Tom Foreman has more on the other woman eyes the White House.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) [17:25:15] TOM FOREMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hillary Clinton isn't the only woman who wants to be president in 2016 but while she spent her life --

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HARLOW: I am so sorry because it is such a fantastic piece. I'm sorry you just saw black. We are going to re-wrap. We're going to get that for you. Play it as soon as we can. But it goes through sort of Carly Fiorina's history as CEO of Hewlett-Packard, running for office in California for Senate in 2010, losing that race (INAUDIBLE). So we will bring you that as soon as we can.

And just a reminder, Carly Fiorina smashed some glass ceilings for women. She's also cut 30,000 jobs at Hewlett-Packard while CEO. We are going to take a closer look little later on the show at her controversial track record as a business leader. That conversation tonight 7:00 eastern right here.

Quick break. We'll be right back. \

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[17:29:10] HARLOW: Welcome back. CNN's first major national poll since last Wednesday's Republican presidential debate shows Carly Fiorina surging into second place. Donald Trump still has the lead but it's lead has dropped pretty significantly. Dropped eight point since the CNN poll earlier this month.

Joining me now to talk about all of it, Kate Bohner. She co-authors the book "Trump, the art of the comeback with Donald Trump." So she knows the man. Also with us, Samantha Barry, head of social media with the coolest job at CNN. Thank you both for being here.

Kate, let me start with you. Look at this. Do you think this is a good thing for Donald Trump?

KATE BOHNER, CO-AUTHOR, TRUMP THE ART OF THE COMEBACK: I do. Just having worked with Mr. Trump sort of elbow to elbow for almost two years. This is dropping in the polls is the best thing that could happen to both Mr. Trump and team Trump. Also, you know, with Ms. Fiorina rising in the polls, because then he gets his fight on. It will sharpen his focus. He will be -- he is among the most competitive people I've ever met this my entire life. So now that he sees a fight, I think it's going, as I said, to sharpen his focus and make him reenergized.

[17:30:20] HARLOW: It's also interesting when you look at the polls, I think, Sam, looking at this, how reflective they are of what people were talking about on social media in the midst of that debate Wednesday night. It almost mirrors that.

SAMANTHA BARRY, CNN HEAD OF SOCIAL MEDIA: I was not surprised by any of the poll this morning. Basically, when you watch what was playing out on social media even halfway through the debate, you could see how much Carly Fiorina was doing was resonating with the social audience. She was part of the most talked about social moments of the night, both her challenge to President Obama and Hillary Clinton on Planned Parenthood. Her response to Donald Trump's comments on her appearance and also when Donald Trump and Carly Fiorina and Chris Christie talked about the merits of their business dealings, that was also big part on social media.

The interesting thing I saw was I think a lot of social audiences were getting to know her for the first time. And if you looked at not only the social but the search traffic that night when she mentioned that she had lost her daughter to drug addiction. The spike in searches for her name and information about her went through the roof on Google. And you saw as well happening when Jeb Bush's wife was mentioned. People wanted to know more about those candidates. In a way I don't think that they hadn't before. They hadn't been in the forefront. So social and search really neared what you saw in the poll today.

HARLOW: Kate, two things that you've said that I find very interesting. One, you think that the audience style, this was a much smaller setting. You know, just a few hundred people at the Reagan library versus the FOX debate which was a huge well-seen, that that hurt Donald Trump. You're also concerned about opposition research against him.

BOHNER: Yes. I mean, first, with the size of the audience. Mr. Trump plays to the 5,000, 7,000 arena in the first debate. It charges him up. It gets him going. He loves the roar of the crowd and everything. But in the Reagan library, it's not just that there were 400 or 500 people there, it was also the nature of the audience. It was a serious crowd. Each ticket was assigned. And that's not what I believe where Trump flourishes.

HARLOW: So what about the (INAUDIBLE) research?

BOHNER: Well, I think that as we get in further and further and his views are challenged, and not just challenged but people are looking at the actual meat that's hanging on the bones, what does he truly believe in that it's going to hurt him? He just -- they won't have the kind of information. They may begin to turn up. He had not been scrutinized.

HARLOW: He hasn't been fully vetted.

BOHNER: He has been vetted yet. There's certainly nothing that stands out. When I was working with him, he would squeaky clean family man, everything. But Ms. Fiorina has brought up the times that he has filed for bankruptcy.

HARLOW: Right.

(CROSSTALK)

HARLOW: He made it very clear. I personally haven't filed for bankruptcy. But his businesses have four times.

Sam to you, looking at some of the top issues that people cared about in this debate on social media, what were those issues?

BARRY: Immigration was topped by far. That was the issue that people talked about across social. There were couple of other issues that came up - Iran, the economy, and racial issues. And when we look at the (INAUDIBLE) of all in, particular on Facebook, one interesting take away from me was that women on Facebook really wanted to talk about the conversation on vaccinations. And they are some of the bigger sharers that you have on social platform. Young mothers in particular, big sharers of content on Facebook. And nowhere else and no other platform, but on Facebook they really came to the surface. That conversation between Ben Carson and Donald Trump on vaccinations and they really wanted to talk about that.

HARLOW: And when you look at the top candidates discussed on Facebook, Donald Trump, Carly Fiorina, Ben Carson, that's an exact mirror of the poll results today.

BARRY: It just talks to the fact as a politician in 2015, you have to win town halls. You have to win debates stages. And you have to win on social media. You have to win all of that, every platform.

HARLOW: It's hard job.

All right, I'm getting a queue. We got to go, ladies. Thank you very much. Samantha will be with us next hour for more. I appreciate it.

As always do not forget if you miss the debate on Wednesday night, we will re-air them tonight 8:00 p.m. eastern only right here.

Coming up, we return to Cuba and Pope Francis making his way through Havana. The historic moments next.

But first this week's culinary journey.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE REPORTER (voice-over): Korean chef, Edward Kuan, has traveled down to the home of (INAUDIBLE). He's learned how the famous dish was prepared at the palace and now he's making his way back to Seoul with one final stop. Exquisite presentation is part of any palace cuisine. And the gleaming gold (INAUDIBLE) that is presented on is known as Ugi (ph).

(INAUDIBLE) has been crafting this dishware for more than 30 years.

[17:035:23] UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Of course nowadays the food is really important. But on the other fact which is the plate, what I'm using actually is more important than actually the food. Traditionally in Korea, we're using Ugi. Not actually glassware or China ware or China.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE REPORTER: His dishware is known as (INAUDIBLE), a mix of copper and tin made completely by hand.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (SPEAKING FOREIGN LANGUAGE) UNIDENTIFIED MALE: When you heat it, the sound is different. After that you've got to fill that. The sound is different. It has to be stopped. Otherwise, again, and you will break it.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE REPORTER: After it's shaped, the layers of metal oxide are peeled away and the final dish is revealed.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Wow.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

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[17:40:40] HARLOW: We are back with our special coverage of Pope Francis and his ground breaking trip. In less than 48 hours he'll land on American soil. You're looking, though, at live pictures of the Pope in Cuba. He arrived at a Cuban cathedral where he will lead evening prayers and deliver a homily. Later he is expected to go outside of the cathedral and bless the people outside.

On Tuesday, he will arrive at our nation's capital in Washington D.C. He will meet with President Obama and others at the White House. He will deliver a speech to a joint session of Congress. The first Pope to do that on Thursday. Then he heads to New York. He will speak to the United Nations and then he travels to Philadelphia for a weekend of festivities. We'll be there live in Philadelphia with you next weekend.

But you know what he's probably most excited for, I think he's maybe most excited to go to a very special school right here in New York City and meet some very special third and fourth graders. The Pope is planning to visit two catholic schools in east Harlem. Students and teachers absolutely thrilled.

Joining me now, Joanne Walsh, principal of Lady Queen of Angels. Hope Muller, principal of Ann School and third grader, Justin Bianco. He gets to personally meet the Pope. Thank you for being here.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Thank you.

HARLOW: I have to start with you Justin.

JUSTIN BIANCO, 3RD GRADER AT ST. ANN SCHOOL: OK.

HARLOW: OK. So what did you think when you heard the news?

BIANCO: What I think was when I heard I was like wow. I can't believe I'm meeting the Pope. It's like it is a great honor for me to meet the Pope because not too many kids meet the Pope. And this a memory that I'll never forget.

HARLOW: What will you say to him?

BIANCO: I will say that to pray for me, my family and the children in the world who are sick. And also to say to him that I'm also a big soccer fan too. HARLOW: You're a big soccer fan. I bet he is too. I think he is

too.

For both of you, if you could just tell me. How did it happen that he, you know, that, he decided on your school?

You know, when we found out that Pope Francis wanted to visit in an inner city catholic school and actually Our Lady Queen of Angels, Joanne's school was chosen and then from there St. Ann's, we were asked to participate as well. We were just astounded and thrilled. As Justin said, it's a once in a lifetime opportunity for sure.

HARLOW: Joanne, how does one get -- this is not like parent-teacher conference there, OK. How does one get ready for the Pope to come?

JOANNE WALSH, PRINCIPAL, OUR LADY QUEEN OF ANGELS: Well, the first thing is, of course, do all the housekeeping. We have very special company coming so the place looks immaculate, lots of paints, lots of cleaning, and lots of personalized messages from the children, not all the children will be there that day, but they all want to be represented. So there's notes and posters and drawings hoping that Pope Francis will catch a glimpse of them.

HARLOW: Do you know what your time will be like at school? Is he going to sit with the kids, talk to them? Are they going to put on any presentation?

HOPE MULLER, PRINCIPAL, ST. ANN SCHOOL: We have the 24 students who will be in a room (INAUDIBLE), would be singing him a song that they are been rehearsing, the prayer of St. Francis. And then each of the four school has a different themed project that we will be presenting.

HARLOW: Do you want to sing us any of that?

BIANCO: I don't really know.

HARLOW: Hey. What did mom and dad say, your parents or aunts or uncles, or anyone, any of the adults that you told them, hey, guess who is coming to school?

BIANCO: I really, my parents already know because Ms. Muller (ph). She told them, my parents.

HARLOW: What did they say to you about it?

BIANCO: They said to me about it that it's a good opportunity for me to meet the Pope. And it's a good opportunity to meet the Pope and that --

HARLOW: Be on your best behavior?

BIANCO: Yes.

[17:45:00] HARLOW: Why do I believe that?

So Joanne, to you. What is the message - something more serious note, this is a Pope who is really known as the people's Pope. Someone who cares about those in the margins, those on the (INAUDIBLE). I met actually this week with some prisoners who he's going to be meeting with in Philadelphia. So he's meeting with so many different groups of people. What's the message you hope he sends to the kids?

WALSH: I think his message is loud and clear that he is for the people and of the people. The groups that he'll be meeting with be school children like Justin and also in the building he'll be meeting immigrants who are served by catholic charities. In east Harlem, the Catholic Church is a presence there. So I think the message we want to give him is that the work of the Catholic Church is being done and the work of the catholic schools is also being done not only in east Harlem but New York City. We're listening to his message loud and clear and we are following it.

HARLOW: And Hope, I don't know if you know, but he is addressing youth tonight in Havana and the message, I'd read some of the remarks. The message is your name sake. The message is hope and hope for these kids. What will it mean for you personally?

MULLER: This is an amazing opportunity. And I hope that myself and the children can take away some sense of that spirituality and the hope that he has given the entire world. So to be in his presence is just remarkable.

HARLOW: Absolutely.

MULLER: I'm thrilled.

HARLOW: Justin, I think you guys will be taking a few selfies with the Pope. Do you think so?

BIANCO: Yes.

HARLOW: I can't wait to see them. Thank you so much, Justin, Hope, Joanne. Thank you very much.

MULLER: Thank you.

HARLOW: We appreciate it.

Well, coming up next, county clerk Kim Davis is out of jail for now but one of her deputies is concerned she may have invalidated marriage licenses to same-sex couples. The latest on that is straight ahead.

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[17:51:14] HARLOW: Kim Davis could have another run-in with the law over the marriage licenses that ore office is now issuing to same-sex couples. Her religion and religious opposition to issuing those licenses has landed her in jail once. As CNN's Sara Ganim explain, an attorney for one of Davis' deputies now claims that she's introduced a new marriage license form that may render them invalid.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE) SARA GANIM, CNN CORRESPONDENT: When Kim Davis went back to work last week, she said that she wouldn't stop her deputies from issuing marriage licenses to same-sex couplings as long as those licenses didn't have her name or her title on them. Well now, one of her deputy clerk, the only one who has been issuing licenses to same-sex couples, his name is Brian Mason, he says she's taken it a step further. He is concerned and he filed a motion with the judge saying this, saying Kim Davis came to the office and confiscated all of the original forms and provided a changed form which deletes all mentions of the county, fills in one of the blanks that would otherwise be the county with the clerk's styling, deletes her name, deletes all of the deputy clerk references and in place of the deputy clerk types in the name of Brian Mason. Mason, of course, being that clerk.

He also says that this takes it one step further than the marriage license alteration that had been approved by the judge, what was happening while she was in jail. Now, her attorney responded yesterday, saying that -- not denying that she altered these forms, but saying it didn't violate the judge's order.

Here's what he said. He said the licenses were not altered to circumvent the court's order nor did Kim Davis circumvent the order. He's obviously being very careful hear with his language.

Sara Ganim, CNN, New York.

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HARLOW: Sara, thank you.

Let's talk more about this with Danny Cevallos, CNN legal analyst and attorney himself who know a whole lot more about this than I do.

I mean, this case, Danny, continues to test the law, anew area above the law, giving that this is a ruling just recently handed down from the Supreme Court. You say there's in no hard and fast rule about how these licenses have to look.

DANNY CEVALLOS, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: The reason we're not getting a lot of guidance and Mr. Mason's filing is exactly that. It's almost a plea for some kind of guidance to what to do. It's because there isn't any. And that really is sort of a form of the tenth amendment. Local governments, counties are free to sort of develop their own procedure. And any attorney who practices in different jurisdiction will tell you that even within the same state, even within the same county there's a wide disparity in formats, in stamps, in appearances.

But here is what you need to know. In Kentucky, the county clerk possesses, for example, the power of a notary public. And Kentucky law allows her to delegate that power to any one of her deputies. So ultimately, the answer may be as simple as irrespective of what the seal looks like, whether it's in blue ink or red ink or brown ink or green ink, ultimately as long as it carries with it the power of that office, it may not matter whether it's a smiley face or a thumbprint or anything else because --.

HARLOW: Or whether it has her name on it or not?

CEVALLOS: Yes. The reality is, I mean, when it comes to these, you know, different counties have different -- frankly there are different crazy rules, blue ink here, red ink there. It really varies as to whatever the local custom dictates.

HARLOW: The ACLU, Americans Civil Liberties Union, is taking issue with the forms saying it creates a two-tier system. The issue, you know, ultimately clearly is being headed back to court, but do they have a point there?

CEVALLOS: Sure. I mean, the argument there is that are people in similar situations being treated differently because, yes, because one certificate has blue ink and the other one says this. They may have an argument there. But ultimately, the question is, does it matter if all of these certificates carry with them the official power of that clerk. Do we really want to quibble over whether the appearance, whether the appearances are identical. Really the question is does the equal protection law require that similarly situated people have the same stamps on their paperwork.

HARLOW: Right. You've said this employee, the deputy who is now issuing the same-sex marriage licenses under Kim Davis, Brian Mason, he's just taking the safe route in filing?

CEVALLOS: I think this is good lawyering and I will tell you why. His attorney filed a notice and it's basically saying to the court. Listen, here's what I'm doing. Just so you know, it's styled as a notice which is usually when a party tells the court something. Look, just so everybody knows, here's what's going on. Here's what I'm doing. Don't anybody send me to jail if you're thinking about it because I just -- the reality is, again I said it earlier, when you read the notice, it is really, Mason, everybody, it's a plea for guidance. What do I do? And the answer is nobody seems to know --

HARLOW: But there's no precedent.

CEVALLOS: There is no rule. And you know what? There can't been a guide book for this because it would sort of eviscerate the idea that local governments are permitted to come up with their own systems of doing things. That's almost a constitutional requirement.

HARLOW: Right.

All right, Danny Cevallos, thank you for explaining it much better than any of us. I appreciate it as always.

CEVALLOS: Thank you.

HARLOW: At the top of the hour we will return to presidential politics and a look at this brand-new poll you see on the screen. Carly Fiorina making a meteoric rise. We will break it all down next.

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