Return to Transcripts main page

CNN Newsroom

Pope Francis Visits United States. Aired 3-3:30p ET

Aired September 22, 2015 - 15:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[15:00:02]

BROOKE BALDWIN, CNN ANCHOR: And President Obama, the first lady and the vice president will all be on hand at Joint Base Andrews outside of Washington to greet him.

We have our eye, of course, on live pictures as we watch and we wait for the pope to touch down, stepping onto U.S. soil for the very first time in his life. This is just a meet-and-greet right now, we are told, but, tomorrow, Pope Francis will be heading to the White House, as well as addressing Congress, before coming here to New York and then onto Philadelphia.

You see his here schedule for five days of history, expected to draw crowds by the hundreds of thousands and certainly as well testing the security and testing the U.S. Secret Service. Of course, they are on high alert and have been for a security detail that's been months in the making, and seemingly even more complicated and robust than the protection given to the president of the United States.

I have with me at the top of the hour Jim Sciutto, our CNN chief national security correspondent. He's standing by for us at Joint Base Andrews there in Maryland, waiting for the president to arrive to greet the pope.

And Jim, correct me, but this is precedent-setting in the sense this is the first time a president and a vice president have been on hand at Andrews to greet a pope.

JIM SCIUTTO, CNN CHIEF NATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: That's right.

We really have never seen an official state greeting like this before, the president of the United States, the vice president of the United States, bringing members of their family as well. The first lady will be here, the president's daughters, the vice president bringing two of his granddaughters.

But in addition to that official welcome, which also includes the Virginia governor and the mayor of Washington, you have the sort of unofficial welcome here. You can hear a high school band that's been practicing over here to my right. That's from DeMatha High School in Washington.

You have about 300 kids here greeting. They have been cheering the last few minutes saying, "Hey, hey, Pope Francis is on the way." You have seen everybody practicing. I have seen the honor guard walking up and down to just get it perfectly right for when the pope arrives.

You see the red carpet over my left shoulder here. They rolled that out, which we thought was the official rolling out of the red carpet. It actually was just a practice. They rolled it back up again so that when he lands, they are going to roll it out. But they want to have that just perfectly right.

So you have that warmth of the reception and on the other side, you have this tremendous security preparation that you mentioned, really unprecedented, one of the largest security mobilizations this country has seen in its history. Sad fact is, Pope Francis is considered a target of terrorists. It's been deemed a national security special event.

And you have this tremendous team coming together to keep him safe during the trip. The Secret Service in charge of security, the FBI in charge intelligence, but we see the D.C. police here. We know that members of the TSA have been drafted into service as well. I was told that all members of the Secret Service couldn't take vacations as of the end of August. It's an all hands on deck situation here.

The challenge really, Brooke -- and you have I have talked about this a little bit -- is that balance. The pope is someone who likes to get out there. He wants to connect. He has said don't make these trips without human connection and human communication. He's going to want to touch the hands of these students here. He's going to want get out and greet people and get behind the bulletproof glass of the Popemobile.

That's going to be a challenge for the security services as well, because they want him to have that kind of trip, but they are very aware of the threat level here. This is a highest threat level trip. They want to keep him safe as well. That will be the challenge. But when you see this turnout here, just a very early taste of kind of the welcome that this country is giving to the pope.

BALDWIN: Let me ask you just a little bit more, Jim, about the turnout, just sort of staying in moment and I'm feeling the excitement all the way up here in New York. As we're looking at live pictures of the crowd, who is in the crowd there at Andrews?

SCIUTTO: Three hundred kids. They're mostly from Catholic schools around the area. He's going to meet with 2,700 of them just while he's in D.C. alone. You have a high school band, and you hear them beginning to play. That's from DeMatha High School, one of Catholic schools in the area.

We have seen some older people, and we know that there are going to be special needs students here as well. We have seen some elderly people. This bus that is just coming behind me now is one of the many buses that's been ferrying them in over the course of the last hour or so.

And then you have the official greeters, of course, the president, the vice president, the governor of Virginia, the mayor of Washington, D.C., the archbishop world of Washington, D.C., as well, all coming to welcome.

I'll tell you, this is a serious environment. It's Joint Base Andrews. This is where the president takes off in Air Force One. You're surrounded by the Air Force here, as well as security personnel. They have got a serious job today.

But I have also seen a lot of smiling faces today. They are happy to be part of this. They know that they are witnessing history here. This is a special event to be taking a part of. And I think they are showing some confidence in the security preparations that have been under way.

It's excitement. It really is excitement here. It's going to be a remarkable few days here in Washington, New York and Philadelphia.

BALDWIN: DeMatha High School band sounds pretty good, if you ask me.

[15:05:00]

Jim Sciutto, don't go too far from that camera. You're at the spot, as we are minutes away from Pope Francis touching down. Thank you so much, my friend. I appreciate it. We will come back to you.

The pope has been called the most outspoken pontiff ever. He's commented on human and civil rights issues. He's ventured into typically unchartered territory for most popes. That include politics. He helped broker the new charter in U.S. diplomatic relations with Cuba.

He and President Barack Obama are expected to tackle issues on poverty, climate change. They will be meeting tomorrow in the Oval Office. Pope Francis' ideals, however, seem to clash with some on Capitol Hill.

Joining me now, CNN political commentator Carl Bernstein. He co-wrote the bestselling book "His Holiness: John Paul II and the Hidden History of Our Time." Also with me, Father Edward Beck.

So wonderful to have both of you on.

And I can just -- for a moment, hearing the fact that they are practicing rolling out the red carpet, rolling it back and rolling it out for the pope. It's precision, it's perfection for this man.

To you, sir, I look at you and I see Washington and just the significance. Can we hit on the significance of President Obama, the first family, Vice President Joe Biden, a Catholic, all at Andrews awaiting his arrival?

CARL BERNSTEIN, CNN CONTRIBUTOR: The pope and this pope in particular stands apart from all other leaders in the world. And there's no ambivalence about this leader, this pope, with either Biden, the president.

They admire him deeply, unlike other leaders in the world. His agenda is one that they can embrace because of its humanity, because of his empathy, because of his concern with the poor, with those who are marginalized by all kinds of fiscal factors, by immigration. He identifies, this pope, with the kind of ideals that both Biden and the president of the United States aspire to.

And, yes, he's really controversial, if you try to politicize him and pigeonhole him, as you would an ordinary politician. But his job, as he sees it and as he has articulated, Pope Francis, is to come here and show the world that, one, the United States is a country that stands above others in some ways and has more responsible -- responsibilities to others who cannot help themselves, who need help, that we have to do more.

His economic message, which has been characterized as radical, it's very much the same message as John Paul II, who criticized capitalism as vehemently as he criticized communism, that we must do more for those who are not treated equally.

BALDWIN: You mentioned some of the issues that he of course has been outspoken on. But also, Father Beck, he's flying into Washington. Right? I have a list. These are stories we have been covering. Abortion, there was a big vote today on the Hill, abortion, income inequality, climate change, immigration, politics.

My question to you is, how in touch has he been with the stories that have been percolating here in America?

REV. EDWARD BECK, CNN CONTRIBUTOR: I think he's in touch because people inform him. He has advisers as to what to expect.

He's a smart man. He keeps up on current events. He knows what he is saying. That's why it always intrigues me when people say, well, why would he venture in to talk about climate change? Because he knows about climate change and he believes that stewardship of the Earth is an important value. It's a biblical value. It's been a religious value.

He also had scientists that advised him in the writing of that encyclical. So he didn't wade into those waters unknown. And so what I think he looks now at these issues coming to the United States, but what's interesting is, Brooke, is he does not see the United States as the center of the world, despite most Americans.

(CROSSTALK)

BECK: He does not see that as the center of the world. He doesn't at all.

BALDWIN: I'm looking at you and being facetious. No.

BECK: But Americans do. We think that we are the superpower, we are number one, we're the richest. He's a little suspect of us, I think. And the Latin American perspective is also suspect of the United States.

BALDWIN: How do you think that will affect and talk about wading in the waters with some of these issues? I know, even in Cuba, he mentioned abortion publicly, speaking on that.

(CROSSTALK)

BECK: Three times.

BALDWIN: Three times. So as he meets with the president in the Oval Office tomorrow, what waters do they wade into?

BERNSTEIN: Remember, they have met before and they have deep respect for each other.

BALDWIN: Yes.

BERNSTEIN: And the pope sees this president as a way of indeed carrying the same gospel that he preaches.

Is the president about to embrace his message on abortion? No. But at the same time, is he about to embrace the pope's greater notion of inclusion, of respect for people's rights everywhere? Yes.

BALDWIN: Yes.

BERNSTEIN: But what Father just said is really important about this pope not seeing the world through American eyes. What he sees about America is the great opportunity that we have in this country to do great things for all people.

[15:10:03]

And that's his message, as it was when they met before. Joe Biden, a Catholic himself, knows the Gospel very well. It's a radical notion. This pope is a radical, much more radical than Obama.

But I ask the Father, that really, the church's message is a radical one in the modern world. Am I right about that?

BECK: It is a radical one when you listen to it.

BERNSTEIN: And John Paul II was a radical with the same message that this carries about the responsibilities of those who have toward those who don't.

BECK: Yes. His emphasis was a bit different. John Paul II, he stressed different things, but no less radical than what this pope is saying.

BALDWIN: What about, though -- as I'm looking at live pictures of Andrews and seeing the pope reaching down, getting away from the Popemobile. I'm wondering about security.

You wrote the book about John Paul II after the assassination attempt and when he came to the U.S. He listened to Secret Service. He abided by the rules. How do you think it will play out? How do we -- obviously, we hope everything will go smoothly and people -- he will kiss some babies and inspire so many people around the world, but in terms of security, do you think the pope is going to -- this pope, the people's pope, will play by all the rules?

BERNSTEIN: So far, he has not anywhere in the world.

And his natural inclination is to walk into crowds, to kiss babies. He wants to be the people's pope. Remember that popes are seen by more people than any other leaders in the world. John Paul II was seen by more people than anyone in the history of the world in person.

BALDWIN: Incredible.

BERNSTEIN: And the same tradition goes on. He likes it. This is what he is -- that's why he's there is to carry this message, to enthuse these people.

BALDWIN: How do you think the Secret Service is feeling?

BECK: I think they're going crazy right now. He does not want the closed Popemobile. He wants it open. He said he feels like tuna in a can when you put me in that thing. He wants to be able to reach out.

I think I have been told off the record by Secret Service that it is the highest threat level against an individual that they have ever covered thus far. And the security, like this pope's visit, has never been seen in the United States.

BALDWIN: I have so much more for you two gentlemen. Will you please stand by?

We have to get a quick break in, as we are all watching Andrews. Just a reminder, also, tonight, we have a special report airing really -- it's about the pope, the man. It's called "The People's Pope." It airs tonight here on 9:00 Eastern and Pacific.

As we keep watching, got an eye right there on Andrews, the pope expected to land there any moment now. It's his very first visit. He's 78 years of age. It's his very first visit in his lifetime to the U.S. We will talk about why this truly is history in the making. The stage is set, the arrival ready, and a number of students of DeMatha High School there and marching band

We will be right back. Keep it here for CNN's special live coverage.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[15:17:22]

(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)

BALDWIN: All right, we're coming in on some live pictures. You got to look at these faces here. This is a very excited crowd there at Joint Base Andrews in Maryland because they are part of history as we are waiting for Pope Francis to arrive in the United States for the very first time in his life here.

You have about 300 kids there mostly from Catholic schools in the Washington, D.C., area, marching band on site. We were talking to Jim Sciutto, our correspondent there, who was saying they have been practicing rolling and rolling back up the red carpet for the pope's arrival.

Now, the gentlemen next to me can attest to this as far as Washington, D.C., goes. On a good day, traffic in Washington or here in New York, it is well close to gridlock. Special interest during the pope's visit, obviously, where's he going to be, when will he be there and most important security concerns.

We have tasked CNN's Tom Foreman to look into this for us now.

So, Tom, talk to me about where he's heading and when.

TOM FOREMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Brooke, he is heading into a part of the country where, in these three metroplexes, there are 36 million people.

And these are traditionally, as you just noted, in the top 10 of the gridlocked areas of the country. As he heads down into D.C. here, for example, he's going to be heading into an area that has about 600,000 regular residents, but about a million people who come in every day.

They are putting up new cell phone towers. They have issued a 14-page list of road closures for people to deal with as they try to navigate all of this around these big events. And look at the areas that essentially are going to become no-go zones during the pope's visit.

This is down around the White House. This is the capital. This is the Basilica up here. And he has big events in all of these areas that will absolutely shut down massive parts of the city while that is happening before he heads out.

And important to note here, because this does make a difference. While he is here, there will be two sold-out concerts in the middle of all of this by Ed Sheeran. And there will be a three-night home stand by the Washington Nationals against the Orioles. These alone would mess up traffic here.

With the pope being here, it's going to be unbelievable. They are warning people to count on maybe an additional hour or more just each way, trying to come and go to all of this, and basically saying if you want to get in here and you're going to drive, first of all, don't. And if you're going to, drive way out and try to come back in. And then, Brooke, when you start going up to New York, I'm telling you, the events you have up there, you're going to have the exact same thing in that tiny island of Manhattan.

(CROSSTALK)

[15:20:03]

FOREMAN: So, good luck to you. I hope you're not be driving around a lot.

BALDWIN: I'm flying out on Thursday. I'm marrying two people on Friday. I'm trying to avoid some of this. As one person comes in, I'm trying to get out.

Tom Foreman, it's so, so huge. Two words for everyone, public transportation. Thank you so much.

I have two gentlemen sitting next to me who will talk about security here.

We are going to get a quick break in, again, live pictures from Joint Base Andrews as we're watching and waiting for the pope to arrive. Been talking to so many people, though. It's one thing to have the U.S. Secret Service protecting and anticipating the president's every move. The U.S. Secret Service has been watching videos to anticipate the pope's moves in the next couple of days here in the United States.

We will talk about that, the challenge, the choreography, next here on CNN.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[15:25:09]

BALDWIN: Live pictures from Joint Base Andrews, as mere minutes from now, the pope, Pope Francis, should be touching down here on U.S. soil, history in the making.

Please stay with us here on CNN. We will take the whole thing live.

Now a huge storyline for really the next couple days, as he's in the United States, the five-day tour of the United States will have ironclad security. It's up to the U.S. Secret Service here to lead on all of this and officials say it will be, in a word, intense. In fact, CNN has learned the department spent $15 million just renting bike racks to be used as barriers along the pope's travel routes, where the crowds will be the biggest issue.

And there will be hundreds of thousands of people. Officials are, and understandably so, concerned about people trying to run up to the pope, touch the pope, like one papal protester actually did in Havana. There are also worries about how to handle Pope Francis's desire to stop his motorcade at any point in time to pop out and mingle with the crowd.

I have with me here still CNN political commentator Carl Bernstein, along with Jeffrey Robinson. He's joined us now. He's the author of "Standing Next to History, " a book on the Secret Service, covering Pope John Paul II's 1986 visit here to the States after the assassination attempt.

You have both have written books involving John Paul II. Let's just begin with what happened in '81, when there was the attempt on Pope John Paul II's life at the Vatican. That was before he came to meet and greet President Reagan. How has security juxtaposed then from now? How has that so changed?

JEFFREY ROBINSON, AUTHOR, "STANDING NEXT TO HISTORY": You want to talk about the assassination attempt? (CROSSTALK)

ROBINSON: All right.

What happened was, he was in an open Popemobile. And an open Popemobile is a very dangerous thing, according to the people who need to protect him. If the Secret Service had their way, they would put him a bubble and no one would ever get near him. Obviously, there are divergent views on what he's supposed to do and what he wants to do.

In '86, because the pope had been a victim of an assassination attempt, Joe Petro, who was heading up the massive protective operation for the pope when he came here, he went over to Rome, looked at the Popemobile and said, I don't like it. It's open. I'm also -- if I'm going to sit in the front seat, I can't get to him because it's the glass bubble behind me.

He had some Popemobiles sent over to Washington to the Secret Service garage where they rebuilt the Popemobile, so that he had direct access to the pope. There was nothing to stop him. He was closed in and protected.

BALDWIN: So he helped craft that.

ROBINSON: He helped, yes.

Now you have got a pope showing up with an open Popemobile, and it's absolutely horrendous that the Secret Service is allowing this to happen, which says to me that the Secret Service does not have the last word, which is a very dangerous situation.

BERNSTEIN: The important thing to remember about John Paul II, the assassination attempt, is who did it, Mehmet Ali Agca, who probably was acting on behalf of the Bulgarian secret service.

The Russians at the time would have liked nothing better than see John Paul II leave this earth because of what he was doing in Poland and a pivotal figure in the fall of communism, as we know.

And Ali Agca was known to the authorities for being a dangerous fellow. And so Father Beck earlier on your air here talked about ISIS.

BALDWIN: Right.

(CROSSTALK)

BERNSTEIN: And they have pronounced their desire to see their flag over the Vatican, et cetera.

So worry either here is someone either tasked or a freelancer. And in the case of Ali Agca, it worked. And it's everybody's nightmare. And we can also overestimate the dangers here as well. The Secret Service is very accustomed to throwing a pretty great blanket over our presidents. But then again, like the pope, Ronald Reagan, a few weeks before the pope was shot, Reagan was shot. And one of the things that they talked about when they met in the Vatican, Reagan and Pope John Paul II, was Reagan said, I think we were both spared for a reason from assassins.

BALDWIN: How about that?

BERNSTEIN: But it's part of what goes with this territory. And this pope also has a kind of fatalism about him. He's talked about, I might not be here for too long.

BALDWIN: Because Pope John Paul II, when he came in '86, the Secret Service said, listen, there was this attempt on your life. You need to listen to everything we tell you to do. And he abided by that, yes?

ROBINSON: You and I have spoken several times about the gold standard that was set by the Reagan...

BALDWIN: Secret Service.

ROBINSON: Secret Service, that era's Secret Service, and how it has deteriorated considerably.

One of the things that worries me is the fact that, if the Secret Service had its druthers, that Popemobile would not be open, which says to me there are other forces at work here. Of course the Vatican wants him accessible. The archdiocese of Washington, Philadelphia, and New York want him accessible.