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Legal View with Ashleigh Banfield

Security for Pope; Pope to Visit White House. Aired 12-12:30p ET

Aired September 22, 2015 - 12:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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[12:00:22] ASHLEIGH BANFIELD, CNN ANCHOR: Hello, everyone. I'm Ashleigh Banfield. Welcome to the program today. And welcome to the final moments of the pope and his visit to Cuba. He is now starting a journey to the United States of America. Live pictures to you from Santiago in Cuba. Take a look as he boards that flight bound for the United States.

This is quite a day because we are about to embark on several very busy days in the U.S. as the pope waves good-bye, gives his blessing. Take a look at the signal to the right there, Alitalia Flight, he's going to be actually using that plane to fly out of Cuba. Flew that plane in presumably as well. But when he gets to America, he'll actually be using American Airlines.

He's got appearances in three cities in the United States. And ahead, a journey of firsts for this pontiff and for the church and for the United States as well. At age 78, this pope has never set foot in the United States. So this is historic in so many ways.

It all will change at 4:00 p.m. Eastern time when he's due to arrive at Joint Base Andrews and make his way to the Apostolic Nunciature, the Vatican embassy in northwest Washington. At Andrews, here's another first, he's going to be greeted by President Obama and Mrs. Obama and Vice President Biden and Dr. Biden, his wife. That, too, a first for a visiting leader.

Tomorrow, Pope Francis will visit the White House. And after that, he'll meet with American bishops at St. Matthews Cathedral. And then it's off to celebrate an outdoor mass, where he'll canonize a saint, another first. There are American saints, but none have ever been canonized here.

On Thursday, the pope will be the first pope to address a joint meeting of the United States Congress. And after that, he will meet with the cities' homeless. So from one extreme to the other.

Then he is off to New York for a visit that coincides with the annual confab of the U.N. General Assembly. One hundred and seventy world leaders will be on hand in town at the very same time the pope will be. Imagine the security. Just imagine.

This has been work of biblical proportions, folks. The FBI calling the pope's United States visit, and I will quote, "a national special security event," end quote. The pomp and circumstance still wrapping up on the runway in Santiago to Cuba, in Cuba, as he gets ready to take off. He's scheduled to actually lift wheels up at 12:15. So just minutes from now. So the leaders who are bidding him farewell, and waving good-byes, from what everyone has unilaterally said is a successful visit to Cuba where he met with the Castro brothers, and gave his special blessing to that country. Clearly the relationship between the United States and Cuba has a lot to do with this pope as well. So, there you have it, the runway in Cuba.

I'm joined now by my CNN colleagues Deborah Feyerick and Michelle Kosinski. Deb is here in New York working the security angle. Michelle is at the White House clearly working a very busy angle there as well.

So first, Deb, I want to speak with you because as we watch these live pictures, this arrival in the United States is one of the most significant from a security standpoint that you can - they don't get any bigger in terms of the security. Walk me through some of the things you're learning.

DEBORAH FEYERICK, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, you're absolutely right, Ashleigh, they really don't get any bigger than this. You've got to understand, the United States Secret Service has been planning this for nine months. They are coordinating 50 different agencies. They are bringing in thousands of extra federal agents to be on hand certainly here in New York because we've also got the United Nations General Assembly. That's going to be one of the pope's first stops on Friday when he addresses world leaders. So you have an unprecedented level of security here in the city.

And they are looking at everything. Everything is carefully choreographed. The traffic flow. Intersections will be shut down so that the pope can move very quickly and very smoothly from location to location. They have police officers who are going to be stationed everywhere. You've got secured perimeters. Those will be for ticketholders. People that are going to pass through security checkpoints, magnetometers. There will be radiation detectors well as at the bridges and tunnels. Plus you've got surveillance cameras everywhere.

[12:05:10] So this is so highly coordinated, it's almost like a military operation where you've got one central command post, a joint operation center, but then each of the different agencies, like the FBI, that's going to be in charge of monitoring threats, as well as homeland security investigations and others. All of them are going to have independent command centers. So the coordination is extraordinary. The pope will be moving quickly to quickly - from point to point, quickly to quickly. It's not just to make sure he gets there safely, but also, if there is some sort of an incident, they want to make sure that they can evacuate him as quickly as possible.

BANFIELD: Hence many of those road closures in Manhattan. If you've ever been in Manhattan, gridlock is part of what we deal with every day. And if you need to evacuate the pope quickly, the only way to do it is just to close streets down and have those egresses available.

Deb, stand by, if you will. Great reporting in terms of what the Feds are saying among the largest mobilization of security officials in American history.

I want to bring in Michelle Kosinski now to talk a little bit about the White House, because when the president arrives, Michelle, the president - or when the pope arrives, the president and Mrs. Obama are going to Joint Andrews. They're going to meet him there. That's significant in itself. But then walk me through what happens next as they get to the White House. This is not any visitor.

MICHELLE KOSINSKI, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Yes. I mean there's a lot of planning that goes into this, too, and large numbers of people, maybe larger than you would expect. For example, today, this afternoon, at Andrews Air Force Base, there are going to be about 1,000 people lining the fence there to see the pope arrive. That includes mostly people invited by the archdiocese, but also people invited by the Air Force base itself. And then on the tarmac, of course, not just the first lady and President Obama, of course, but also Sasha and Malia Obama will be there. The Bidens and then dozens of church official. So they will escort the pope to his motorcade and then they separate for the rest of the day.

Tomorrow at the White House is really where this big welcoming ceremony happens on the South Lawn. Not out here, but on the other side of the White House, where there's a lot more space and they're going to need it because we're talking between 14,000 and 15,000 specially invited guests. That's going to include a lot of members of Congress, members of the president's cabinet, the Marine Corps Band will be there to greet the pope when he arrives to the South Lawn. And what kind of music do you play for the pope? The anthem of the Vatican. Yes, there is a sort of national Vatican anthem. So there will be some time spent there.

And then what all eyes are focused on will be this meeting that we don't see. The bilateral meeting between the president and the pope. And, you know, with all of these dignitaries and church officials around and congressmen, members of the cabinet, it's that meeting that will be only the president and the pope. One-on-one, in the Oval Office. There will be two translators present just in case they're need, but we're told today by senior admiration officials that the pope for these appearances, including his speech to Congress on Thursday, he's expected to speak English. It's not his strong point, but we've been told that he's been practicing for months. And that meeting between the president and the pope is expected to last between 45 minutes and an hour, Ashleigh.

BANFIELD: I heard him say some choice English phrases to Scott Pelly of CBS News the other day on a rope line and it was very impressive. So, you're right, he's been - he's been working at the English.

Michelle Kosinski, thank you.

There's still so much that I'm going to tell you about throughout this program. And our thanks to Deb Feyerick as well with regard to security and logistics. But I want you also to know I'm welcoming our viewers around the world as we watch the live picture of the Alitalia flight that is on the runway in Santiago, in Cuba, as the pope prepares to depart. By my estimation, about six minutes or so from now should be wheels up en route to Washington, D.C., to Joint Andrews Air Force Base.

So in the meantime, as the pope prepares to depart, there's still so much more. I want to bring in CNN religion commentator and catholic priest, Father Edward Beck, who could not be more excited about the imminent arrival, and also from Buoyant (ph) Beach, Florida, we're joined by former Secret Service Agent Dan Bongino, who knows a thing or two about the security situation that right now is at its highest in the United States.

Father Beck, I want to start with you. The reason Dan is going to have such a tricky job explaining to me the intricacies of all of these agencies led by the Secret Service is because this pope is different. He likes to be with the people. The Popemobile is not his thing. He doesn't like to stay in a protected environment. Give me a feel for why he is so - I don't know, why he feels like he can do that in this day and age. We've had an assassination attempt on Pope John Paul II.

[12:10:05] FATHER EDWARD BECK, CNN RELIGION COMMENTATOR: Two of them.

BANFIELD: And we've never been in the more dangerous sort of life living with terror as a reality in America. Why does this pope feel like this is OK?

BECK: He believes that he was actually chosen by God to do this at this time in his life. He's 78 years old. If God has chosen him for this mission, I think he has the deep faith that God will protect him in it. And if he can't be with people, if he's going to live in a bubble, he said, I feel like tuna in a sardine can. So, I mean, why would he want to live that way. And so he says he's going to take the risk because he needs to be close to the people he's called to shepherd. And so he does go out where he shouldn't go perhaps.

BANFIELD: Do - does he wear protective clothing? Does he have any kind of flack material under his robes, do you know?

BECK: Not that we know of. We probably would not be told that if that were the case. But he could perhaps wear a vest of some kind, but not that we know of, no. I think all of that is pasta that you see.

BANFIELD: Well, lucky him that he gets to wear loose clothing.

BECK: Yes.

BANFIELD: So, Dan Bongino, what Father Beck just said is sort of your worst nightmare when it comes to trying to devise a security plan in three different major United States cities in just a matter of days and coordinate that with 170 world leaders at the United Nations. This has got to be one of the trickiest efforts.

DANIEL BONGINO, FORMER SECRET SERVICE AGENT: Yes. It's actually a security nightmare. And I deeply respect the pope willing to put his own personal safety on the bookshelf to shepherd the flock. That's admirable. But for a security person like myself that is a former Secret Service agent, it's an absolute nightmare. It's terrifying.

And I'll tell you why. Just to put this in context, what the Secret Service has to do in marshaling this operation, they have to mitigate, Ashleigh, what I would call the, you know, the big six, right? A tactical assault, medical emergency, chemical, biological attack, an IED explosive device, an airborne assault and fire or geologic type things, a building collapse, and you have to have an A to Z plan for all of that at every second and footstep on the pope's route. I mean if that doesn't express to you the gravity of what went into this logistics wise, nothing else will. And combine that with his unpredictability, and this jumping into the crowd, and you really have a Secret Service agent's worst nightmare.

BANFIELD: So I just want to list out a couple of things that are unusual security measures. I mean we've had lots of dignitaries before in these cities, but these are unusual situations that are being set up.

There will be large holding pens that will be erected along the pope's motorcade for onlookers, but those onlookers in those holding pens will have been screened for weapons and explosives. No selfie sticks. No selfie sticks allowed near the pope. So if you're thinking of going anywhere, leave that at home.

In New York it is illegal to operate a drone while the pope is here. Very unique. Postal service is going to be interrupted in some places while the pope is here. And in Washington, the gridlock is expected to be so significant that federal employees have actually been requested to take a snow day and work from home while the pope is here.

Interestingly, and, Father Beck, if you could weigh in on this, that the security detail that is being provide here, with all of the agencies led by the Secret Service, the FBI integrally involved, planning months in advance, the pope also brings a significant detail from the Vatican and the Swiss Guards, the 500 year old service, as well. Walk me through a little bit of that set-up?

BECK: Well, a secret security agent from the U.S. told me off the record that there has never been a higher threat for them than this visit, which I think is pretty remarkable when you think about who they have had visit. ISIS has said it would like to raise the ISIS flag over the Vatican. So can you imagine ISIS on U.S. territory, taking out the head of Catholicism, Christianity? I mean it would be a big gain for them in one fell swoop. I think this is the danger here. This is why the security detail is unprecedented because if they were to strike in that way, it's one of these lone wolf crazy men, I think it would be disastrous. And I think this is the fear people have.

BANFIELD: Let me just interrupt you for a moment. I'm just watching the runway alongside of our viewers as well. And, again, I want to welcome our viewers around the world and here in the United States as the Alitalia plane with the pope onboard is getting ready for takeoff. Should be actually within a minute or so. And our Rosa Flores, from CNN, is aboard that plane right now.

Rosa, are you able to speak to me? Can you hear me?

ROSA FLORES, CNN CORRESPONDENT (via telephone): Hi, yes. Yes, I can. We just boarded moments ago, Ashleigh, and we are about to take off.

The pope is already on the plane, so we're ready to go. We're just kind of discussing what's - discussing what's going to happen during the - and you probably hear journalists screaming, because we're all trying to figure out what's going to happen once we get in the air.

[12:15:09] And the aircraft is moving as we speak. So Pope Francis, Ashleigh, on his way to Washington, D.C., to make that very anticipated speech before Congress, then to the U.N. Of course we've all been wondering what he is going to say.

BANFIELD: Well, and I'm watching the pictures not only of the flags out of the cockpit window, which is just a terrific sight as this Alitalia flight gets ready to hit the runway and just taxis across the tarmac, but the picture on the left -

FLORES: I'm waving at you.

BANFIELD: Well, I'm watching another picture of you, Rosa Flores, being blessed personally by the pope on that plane. That is such a remarkable experience. And I know this just happened to you yesterday. You were able to exchange a few things. You gave him a gift. This - I mean this whole experience of traveling on board that plane with the pope just must be overwhelming?

FLORES: It really is and I'm really humbled to have the opportunity to be able to do this and to be able to report on the papal plane and to bring you the latest from a moving aircraft. Sometimes I have to stop, Ashleigh, quite frankly, and really enjoy the moment because we are working so quickly and so fast sometimes on the plane - oh, sorry. Again, a lot of journalists (INAUDIBLE) - sometimes -

BANFIELD: I think Rosa's probably getting a few announcements, right? You're supposed to turn your phone off soon, Rosa?

FLORES: Yes.

BANFIELD: OK.

FLORES: Sometime. Sometimes I've got to - I have to stop and think, you know, Rosa, enjoy the moment because you are on the same aircraft as the pope. So, stop and just breath for two seconds because we're working so much.

BANFIELD: Yes.

FLORES: As you know - as you know, Ashleigh, when we - when we are on these (INAUDIBLE) assignments, we try to help as much as we can on all CNN platforms to make sure that we have it all covered. And so - on all front, trying to do social media at the same time as web and TV and so we try to do it all. A little ambitious, but we get it done.

BANFIELD: Well, I'm glad to see you on board safely. I'm going to let you go because I know that at some point you'll probably have to turn your phone off. Although I will say, when I flew on George Bush's plane back in 2000 for the election, no one ever had to turn phones off.

BECK: Yes.

BANFIELD: We didn't even have to buckle up. It was a very unusual circumstance. So you may not have had that announcement. But, obviously, the cockpit windows are still open and the flags are still flying. It's a terrific sight to be able to watch this happen live.

Again, if you're just joining us, the pope is on board that Alitalia airplane as it takes off after his very successful visit to Cuba from Santiago headed to Washington.

And, Father Beck, you have to tell me that little secret that you told me before we came to air about the business class seats and the coach seats aboard these flights that he takes.

BECK: OK. It is a regular plane. They call it Shepherd One anecdotally, but that's not really its name.

BANFIELD: Shepherd One.

BECK: Shepherd One. But it's a regular Alitalia plane. There is a business class that the pope and his small entourage sits in it and all of the journalists sit in the back in coach. However, the journalists pay business class fare to subsidize everybody else. So they complained they don't get very good food, they got uncomfortable seats, yet they're paying business class, but they're happy that the pope at least comes back and visits them.

BANFIELD: Oh, and gives them a blessing.

BECK: And gives them a blessing. So it's worth business class -

BANFIELD: Effectively for free. I would say that's worth the price of admission right there.

BECK: I bet you Rosa was - doesn't mind paying business class for that.

BANFIELD: I could hear it in her voice, because she was reporting live yesterday after this had happened, she almost couldn't speak, she was just so thrilled about this moment she did not expect to have happen.

As the plane gets ready to take off, could you also fill me in on the protocol, because when the president of the United States travels, he travels on board Air Force One. It is a specified aircraft for him with sleeping quarters, office quarters, communication quarters, security quarters, et cetera. Not so for the pope?

BECK: No, we don't have this here. As I said, it's a regular chartered flight. They rent the plane from the airline. And whatever country is hosting the pope, they use an airline from that country. Now, I'm intrigued that they're not using a Cuban airline here to take him from Cuba to the U.S. I bet you there's a reason for that. I'd love to find out what it is.

BANFIELD: Well, maybe we're not at that restrictive phase yet -

BECK: Perhaps.

BANFIELD: Or the unrestricted phase yet where a Cuban airliner can land in the United States.

BECK: Perhaps.

BANFIELD: That might be the reason.

BECK: But as you mentioned, when he's here, he will fly American Airlines then.

BANFIELD: And by the way, how does that happen? Do we know how American Airlines ends up with the contract to fly the pope? Is that something the Vatican just checks the ticket prices and goes with that carrier?

BECK: I wouldn't be surprised if he says, get us the most reasonable flight. But I don't think it hurts that the name is American.

BANFIELD: Yes. And, of course, his security detail is all part of that. But the pilots, those who work the flights, the flight crew, pilots, et cetera, are all the locals. They don't bring in their own special staff, is that right?

BECK: Yes. They have a few undercover people, but they use the regular staff is my understanding.

BANFIELD: OK. So as we watch this plane as it heads down to the runway to get ready to take off, we don't want you to miss any of it, so we're going to continue to watch this.

Dan Bongino, walk me through some of the issues of just the plane landing. And I know you said that it's been about nine months' worth of preparation, but there's a lot that we don't know and it - it goes into effect now. I mean it's probably been in effect for days, but he's got a couple of hours before he touches down at Andrews. Walk me from that moment forward and how he gets to the White House.

[12:20:25] BONGINO: Sure. Yes, airports always prevent very unique security dilemmas. The glide path, when the airplane's about to land, is one of the more - the most dangerous portions of the trip because of the potential for a portable anti-aircraft device to take that plane down, especially a commercial aircraft that doesn't have the counter measures built in to Air Force One. So airports always create a very, very difficult scenario for the Secret Service.

Also, there's an air picture there. You have to close down a window so that that aircraft is the only one in that window that's landing, especially for a critical threat level protectee like the pope. It's unlike nothing I've ever seen. But you have to be very delicate with that window as well. You don't want to shut down the entire northeast corridor for an hour. You want to keep that window really tight.

So there are a lot of logistics issues, getting people in and out of an airport is extremely difficult. What's making this a bit easier is the Secret Service has been working at Joint Base Andrews for, you know, decades. We're very familiar with the process. They're very familiar with us. The security personnel on that base are second to none. They know who should be there and who shouldn't. If it was JFK, which it, at some point, is probably going to be on this trip, that's a little different. That gets a little dicey.

CAMEROTA: So, I want to bring in Deb Feyerick again. Everybody stand by again watching the plane as it turns, probably getting ready for - for final takeoff on that runway.

You know, there has been very little talk, Deb, of any specific threats. In fact, the only talk has been that there are no specific threats. But is there something else that's among the chatter of security officials and your sources?

FEYERICK: Yes, and this is what's really interesting. There is no credible threat. And all the directors of all the different agencies have come out and said that publicly. But what there is, is there's an implied threat. You have somebody who is of such high value, as Father Beck had mentioned, look, ISIS want to fly the flag over the Vatican. So, you know, clearly, he is a target. A high value target in their eyes.

But it's not just sort of this larger threat you have to look at, but you do have to look at the lone wolf. You have to look at the person who's mentally unstable. You have to look at somebody who's going to walk in because they want to be near the pope and then decide to do something. Everyone's going to be screened. But it's the unknown that everybody is concerned about.

And, you know, Ashleigh, you talked about will the pope go rogue, will he try to reach out to people in the crowd? Well, he very well may. The good thing is, is that even the unplanned events are actually planned. And that means the Secret Service and all the police officers who are going to be near him, they know that he may do this, and so they're aware, they're alert. So if he does stop the vehicle, they can very quickly mobilize to be looking around to see who is nearby, who is reaching in, what do they have in their hands.

You know, the Secret Service, I was walking in Central Park with a former agent and, you know, I said to him, how do you secure the buildings, how do you secure the rooftops? And he said, they've had teams going in those buildings to find out who has access to the roofs, do the windows open in, do they open out. If somebody opens a window, they will know that. In Philadelphia, for example, people are being told not to open their windows and to make sure that they're not on their balconies. So there are warnings that are going out because there are so many events with tens of thousands of people who are going to be at each one, and he is in town because of this world meeting of families in Philadelphia. That, although you're going to need tickets to some of the events, it's also going to be open so if people do want to want towards him, they will be able to do that. So - but all of this is a factor. So when we talk about unprecedented, this indeed fits that definition. BANFIELD: I remember an incident back in 1991 where I was traveling

through eastern Europe and I walk around a corner and almost straight into the pope. It was one of the more bizarre situations. Now, 1991, a little different circumstance than today and it was in Budapest at the time a little bit different. But I - I was probably, Father Beck, as far away from you as I was to the pope, and that's having coming around a corner and sort of peaked though a crowd and wondering what all the - what all the action was about.

FEYERICK: Well, this -

BANFIELD: It was odd.

FEYERICK: Yes, and he is - he is so accessible. But, you know, it's very interesting, when you see those people who jumped over the barricade in Cuba, the person who grabbed those individuals was actually the pope's photographer. He mentioned that he had a hand on one of those people to get them away from the pope. And then you had really a line of almost soldiers from the pope's detail making sure they kept an eye on the pope and everybody who was around. So there will be people who will try to get towards the pope, but this is expected. That is good. It's the unexpected that everybody has a little bit of fear about.

[12:25:05] BANFIELD: Yes. And, Father Beck, to that the end, the unexpected. Look, nobody wants to overreact. People tend to throw things at the pope. Things that they want him to have, not out of anger, but out of love. They toss him gifts. They toss him cards. They sometimes even sort of toss babies. I hate to say it, but they all want some closeness and some connection with the pope. And I'm not sure how he is trained to deal with this kind of thing to not overreact and to not be fearful.

BECK: Well, do you remember in Brazil, he was in that little, little car, and all of those crowds -

BANFIELD: The Fiat.

BECK: Yes.

BANFIELD: Yes.

BECK: The crowds swarmed him. What did he do? He rolled down the window. And they went nuts.

BANFIELD: Yes, I'm sure his detail went ballistic.

BECK: The - yes. They went nuts. And people started reaching in. Then he's on the Popemobile and someone hands him a drink from the crowd, and he drinks it.

BANFIELD: But he's been known to do that, not just once, he's drunk local tea from people who have been in the crowd before.

BECK: I know, but the security detail go crazy because it could be poisoned, it could be anything. But you know what, and this may sound strange to you and strange to our viewers at home, but martyrdom is a revered station in life in the church.

BANFIELD: Oh, dear.

BECK: And while this pope is not looking to get killed, if this pope dies in the service of humanity and his people, I think that it would be OK with him and I think that's why he is fearless.

BANFIELD: Well, "The New York Times" had a quote about that. He said, I just don't want it to be - involve physical pain. You know, he said, but if it's your will that I die, speaking of God, or that they do something to me, I ask you only one favor, that it doesn't hurt, because I'm a big coward when it comes to physical pain. That's the pope.

BECK: How human is that?

BANFIELD: Let's - let's just stop for a moment because I just want to just alert the viewers as to what they're seeing. If you're not watching your screen right now, it's a good time. The pope is officially taking off, wheels up in seconds flat from Santiago to Cuba - in Cuba, aboard Alitalia. The pope is sitting in business class, folks. And it's regular. Nothing special. No fancy quarters. No fancy setup. No fancy office.

I think you can hear the cheering. The roar of the jet engines. I do think we could actually hear the cheering of those who are bidding their final farewell to a successful trip to Cuba. There you go, folks, three hours and some odd minutes. About three and a half hours, that plane will be landing right here in the United States and that pope will step on American soil for the first time.

And just if you are wondering, amongst our viewers and everyone else across the United States, if you're wondering what the favorability, the opinion of the man on board that jet is, it is high. These are numbers any politician would beg for, would set their whole life and family for. The pope's favorability among Americans is 63 percent. He only has a 13 percent unfavorability. And those who just aren't sure, don't know him well enough or just don't know what to make of it all, 24 percent. Those are pretty remarkable numbers.

We are going to take a quick break as we watch the pope ascend in the sky in the way we want him to, and we'll be right back after the break.

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