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Pope Francis Visits United States. Aired 3-3:30p ET

Aired September 23, 2015 - 15:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[15:00:05]

BROOKE BALDWIN, CNN ANCHOR: You know we didn't win?

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(LAUGHTER)

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Make sure you watch the new season, "Somebody's Gotta Do It," gets going this Sunday. Sunday.

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(CROSSTALK)

BALDWIN: We have to continue on. I truly appreciate all of you. Thank you very much.

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BALDWIN: And we continue, hour two, here on CNN. I'm Brooke Baldwin in New York. Want to welcome you to our special coverage of the pope's historic

trip here in the United States there in Washington, D.C.

To my colleague Chris Cuomo.

CHRIS CUOMO, CNN ANCHOR: That's right. We are at Catholic University in Washington.

This is the only university in the country that was founded by the bishops. It is going to be the site of a big canonization mass today that is not without controversy. But, to be clear, this is a huge day in not just huge in Catholic history, but U.S. history, Pope Francis bringing the capital, Washington, D.C., to a standstill.

We're just moments away now from the pope's first U.S. mass again right here at Catholic University, the Basilica behind us, the National Shrine of the Immaculate Conception. The Basilica, that word doesn't depict architecture. It's a designation by the church of special importance.

That has even heightened importance for the mass today. The pontiff is supposed to be here any minute. And on his way, we should expect more of this. Take a look, the waving, the kissing babies, the Jeep Wrangler Popemobile that he's riding around in.

And as he drives by, it's not just a spectator sport. He is said to be blessing all those that he passes by. And that's something special certainly for those members among the 70 million faithful, the Catholic denomination the largest in country. Right now, however, the pope is behind closed doors.

Why? He's taking a rest at the Nunciature. That's an embassy of sorts for the Vatican, the Holy See. Of course he needs a break. It's very hot, not as hot as it was in Cuba, but this has been a very brisk schedule for a 78-year-old man. We saw him walking with a little bit of a limp this morning. It is in fact a limp. The pope has sciatica. It's not a deadly malady, but it has been acting up since the trip started. He's a little bit listing to port, but OK, they tell us.

Now, 11,000 people packed the White House grounds, the South Lawn, and they got to see the pope speaking in English. Why would he do that? It's not his native tongue, it's not a language he practices a lot. But he knew it was important for the American audience to hear him speak in their own language so that they could understand the words that matter most to him.

It wasn't about just the coherence. It was the emphasis. And his big issue of the day specifically touched on a lot of things, and certainly was pointing to what America needs to represent and stand for and challenge itself with certainly more than he did about the Cuban regime.

But it was the environment that he spoke about by name specifically and most. Take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

POPE FRANCIS, LEADER OF CATHOLIC CHURCH: American Catholics are committed to building a society which is truly tolerant and inclusive, to safeguarding the rights of individuals and communities, and to rejecting every form of unjust discrimination.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CUOMO: Why did he mention global warming most specifically? Maybe it's because an area of obvious agreement with the president of the United States, who was, of course, the host this morning. What did they talk about in private? That's going to be dribbling out as more and more reporting goes. We will get you the information as soon we get it.

Here's what I can give you right now, Carol Costello standing on the sidelines of the pope's motorcade route.

Therefore, you, Carol, are one of the people who got blessed. Do you feel different?

CAROL COSTELLO, CNN CORRESPONDENT: No, I didn't get blessed. The Popemobile passed me by. I waved to the pope. He glanced at me and went on his way.

(CROSSTALK)

CUOMO: No. You were blessed. You were blessed. Supposedly, he says he was blessing as he goes.

COSTELLO: Oh, then I do feel blessed. Thank you for saying that. I feel much better about myself now, Chris Cuomo.

Look behind me. Is that not a beautiful sight? That is the Basilica. That's where the pope will be holding -- well, he will be part of a mass that consists of 25,000 people. Hundreds of people are still in line waiting to get on the campus of Catholic University just to get a glimpse of the pope. Many of them have tickets to go inside that mass because he's going to make someone a saint today.

A lot of the people standing in line are from Latin American countries. They're from Guatemala and Ecuador and Mexico. And this particular person that the pope will be beatifying, his name Junipero Serra, he is responsible for spreading Christianity in California.

[15:05:11]

He's very, very important to Latin Americans in the United States and outside of the United States. I want to bring you over and introduce you to some students from Catholic University.

Hi, guys. What's your name?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: My name is Luke (INAUDIBLE).

COSTELLO: OK. You're hoping to catch a glimpse of the pope? UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I am. I'm really excited, yes.

COSTELLO: Are you excited he's here? What does it mean to you?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It means a lot. We have been at school for four years and this is probably the biggest event that our school has hosted so far. We're really excited to being here.

COSTELLO: Does the pope resonate among younger people, do you think?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I think he still does. And we have seen with this pope he has a lot of new views or kind of changing things. I know we're all excited on campus for him, so...

COSTELLO: What is it about him that resonates?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I think it's the faith in him and the ability that he has to bring a lot of people together. And especially with us, like, all of us really are excited to see him. And so I think -- and a lot of people are excited just to be in his presence and be able to just be in faith with him.

COSTELLO: Well, you know, Pope Francis wants to attract more young people to the church. When the pope talks about things like social justice and climate change, does that resonate?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Absolutely. Like, myself, I'm a mechanical engineering student at Catholic. We're always talking about in the classroom today we have to look to the future and think about that as well. And the fact that the pope is here at a university, it feels great. And we're honored to have him here.

COSTELLO: Thank you all very much. I appreciate it.

And, Chris, earlier today, when the pope was -- he was in that parade along Constitution Avenue, I talked to a lot of young Catholics who call themselves lapsed Catholics who say because of Pope Francis they may come back to the church. Who knows? We will see what happens after the pope's visit wraps up next week.

CUOMO: You know, in reading to get ready for the pope's trip, Carol -- I'm sorry. Just, as you know, they're blasting the music behind us, which is beautiful, but also very loud and a little distracting for us right now.

When I was reading in for this, they say U.S. Catholics biggest denomination in the country, those who have left the U.S. church would be the second largest denomination if they were an actual group in and of themselves, so clearly work to be done for the pope in terms of dealing with the faithful in the United States, of course, bringing enthusiasm.

If you go to Catholic University, you better be psyched about the pope being here today. I got to say, Carol, you do seem to have a little bit of a different light coming off you. I always feel that you have a special glow. I'm very lucky. I get to see you every morning when we toss off to you after "NEW DAY," when we give the show to you for the "NEWSROOM," but this morning, a little different. I think the blessing might have done something. We will see. We will see.

COSTELLO: You know what? I must say that, as the Popemobile went by, I actually threw away my journalistic ethics and I waved to the pope. And I felt a little ashamed professionally, but personally it was fantastic.

CUOMO: I think it's OK. When you witness history, I think that the pope isn't about being Catholic or being religious at all. He matters in the world. He matters on different levels. Doesn't have to be about faith. I think you're fine. I think you're great, in fact.

We will check back in with you. Let us know if you find anything interesting. I will come back to you right away.

COSTELLO: Thank you very much.

CUOMO: Only the truth, Carol, only the truth.

Carol was talking about the man who is being canonized today, made a saint, beatified by John Paul II. Now it will be Pope Francis that makes Junipero Serra a saint. But it's not without controversy. We are going to talk about that all day long as we're getting ready for this mass.

It's supposed to be at about 4:00, 4:15 or so.

Right now, let's bring in David O'Connell. He's bishop of Trenton, New Jersey, former president of Catholic University of America, and a man who has just met the pontiff himself as he addressed the U.S. bishops at Saint Matthew's Cathedral.

And we have also Delia Gallagher, CNN Vatican correspondent, been so helpful to us and will remain to be so certainly today.

Let's start. There will be reactions to everything the pope says. Some of it will be positive. Some of it will be negative. Let's start with the positive.

For you, Bishop, being able to meet the pontiff, hear from him directly, what did you take from his message today that helps sustain and empower your faith?

BISHOP DAVID O'CONNELL, THE CATHOLIC DIOCESE OF TRENTON: Well, of course, it was a thrilling opportunity. He spoke. He spoke so beautifully, so pastorally to those who serve as pastors here in the United States.

And he spoke in an inclusive way. He talked about the importance of encountering Christ, dialoguing with one another. He hit all of the major issues. He was able to do it so beautifully and so gently. It was uplifting.

CUOMO: How did the room take it, so to speak? Forgive my casualness. But in terms of him saying, you have got some work to do here, 70 million, that's good, but you should have a lot more, you have lost a lot of the flock, I have some ideas for you, and he started jotting down different things.

What resonated with the room and how much do you think people took it to heart in terms of something to act upon?

O'CONNELL: I think the room was really very, very happy, ecstatic really.

[15:10:00]

They reacted several times and clapped for the pope in the beginning of his talk. But then they really got very intent in listening to his message. He spoke in Italian and many of the bishops don't speak Italian, so we had to hear through a translator. But it was a beautiful message. He talked to us about prayer.

He talked to us about caring for our priests. He talked about immigration and the importance of opening ourselves to people from our countries because that's how this country was built. He spoke in just such beautiful ways and offered us recommendations and encouragement in our ministry as shepherds.

He talked to us about being fathers to the people, being aware of doctrine and the importance of doctrine, but speaking the truth with love and with mercy. It was a beautiful, beautiful homily that he gave.

CUOMO: Now, Bishop, I want to talk to you about something else that he said that's got a lot of people buzzing and not all of it is positive.

But give me one second. I want to bring Delia in here, because, Delia, one of the important things to watch here as a journalist is how the Holy Father balances his duties or his needs of his own flock, of his own clergy with the larger political aims that he obviously has given his comments today and certainly even what we saw in Cuba over the weekend.

What do you know about how that balance is trying to be struck?

DELIA GALLAGHER, CNN VATICAN CORRESPONDENT: Well, in the first instance, when he spoke to the bishops, Chris, he went straight to one of the topics which has been so important for the Catholic Church in the United States in the last 15 years, and that is the topic of clerical sex abuse.

And he said, in healing, we are healed, and that he was continuing to support the bishops with their courage, he said, in attempting to heal the victims of these crimes. So, it was very important I think for Pope Francis to come out and to say that publicly, to address the question of the sex abuse crisis, which has been so important for the Catholic Church in the United States.

And then he went into a whole host of his other issues, drawing them together in what he called the seamless garment of Jesus, of the church, that is, the garment that Jesus wore when he was carrying the cross. And it's mentioned in the Gospel, so the pope went back from the Gospel to bring it up to date with all of the modern issues. He started with abortion, with the care for the unborn, and went through immigration, with those children who are dying because they are crossing sea in search of a better life, with those children who are dying of hunger, with the elderly and so on.

So, he connected all of the dots, as it were, for all of the main issues that are important to him and that are important for the bishops of this country. And speaking to them as a bishop, he says, I'm the bishop of Rome speaking to you as a fellow bishop. That's also very important for this pope, that he feels one with the rest of his brother bishops.

CUOMO: It will be interesting to watch as the venues change, as the cities change. We know what Philadelphia is about, conference on the family.

But it will be interesting to see if he prioritizes differently as he goes to each place. We will be following that. Delia, you're an expert at it. Thank you very much.

Bishop, let me end with you, though, because as Delia was talking, he did start with something that obviously is very resonant in the United States, the sex abuse scandal. But how he talked about it is going to be the point of controversy for many people, rewarding the bishops or praising the bishops for their courage and telling them to not respond in anger when there is opposition.

That's going to be taken by people as not enough, that not the courage of the bishops because, with all due respect, Bishop, as you know, a point of criticism is that there wasn't enough done, that it was hidden and there are many lawsuits and prosecutions based on that. So, when he says the courage of the bishops, how is that a justifiable thing to say, given what we know about the situation?

O'CONNELL: Well, I think the pope addressed this very early on in the talk.

And his focus really was on the victims and the wounds that the victims really have to endure. But I think the bishops have made great progress, although in the minds of some people, it's never enough and it never will be enough. But I think what he's trying to do is encourage the bishops to keep working at addressing this so that, as he said, it never happens again.

CUOMO: Bishop O'Connell, thank you very much. I know it was a very important day for you. And every time the pope speaks, people listen, and they're going to talk about it whether they're Catholic or not. Thank you for your take.

Delia, as always, we will be leaning on you heavily, especially once this mass begins.

Brooke, Catholic University, 1887, a huge history, the only university in the country that was founded by bishops, so, a very big day. A saint is going to be made and so is many other different types of history.

BALDWIN: The pope heading toward you. He will be getting in that open Popemobile momentarily. Chris Cuomo, thank you so much. We will be back with you in a moment.

Coming up next, though, we will talk about the evolution of the Popemobile from the beginning with portable thrones to horse-drawn carriages to this essentially modified version of a Jeep Wrangler that you see now on the streets now of Washington.

[15:15:08]

We will talk about that when our special live coverage continues.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BALDWIN: I know a lot of you are asking as you have been watching all this coverage of Pope Francis, first in here Washington, what is that tiny bulbous looking car being called the Popemobile?

The answer is initially here the Fiat 500L. It's a little longer, a little taller than the standard Fiat 500. And here's a fact that may soon change. Fiat reports it is its slowest selling model, so Fiat has to love all the attention and the jokes and whatnot that has surrounded this car that took the pope from Andrews on into Washington.

[15:20:10]

The Italian automaker actually tweeted shortly the pope's arrival: "His Holiness knows how to make an entrance #Fiat500L #popeinDC."

So, let's talk about this unlikely little Popemobile. I have Peter Valdes-Dapena, who writes about the auto industry for CNN Money, and CNN's faith and religion commentator, Father Edward Beck.

So, so great to have both of you. Listen, we have all been watching the pope, whichever car he may be in is the Popemobile. But I do think it's interesting, Peter, just beginning with you, because you cover cars, is to see him in this Fiat, we know he was in a Kia in South Korea, Ford Focus in the Vatican. This is not someone who is rolling around in a fancy Mercedes for the most part.

PETER VALDES-DAPENA, CNNMONEY.COM: Right.

For the most part, he really has made a symbolic choice in his choice of vehicles. He's going around the world and generally riding around in something that is produced for the most part locally, part of the local economy, but also fairly modest vehicles. I'm sure a lot of people were surprised not to see him getting into a Cadillac limousine or one of those big GMC Suburbans.

(CROSSTALK)

BALDWIN: When you think of a motorcade rolling through Washington, D.C., you don't think of a Fiat. VALDES-DAPENA: No. You don't think of a little black Fiat.

I mean, ironically, for this pope, it is sort of a perfect vehicle. It was fairly modest, efficient, small four-cylinder engine, but big and roomy on the inside, so he had plenty of room to sit down in back. If I had to pick a car for him, it's actually probably the car I would have picked.

BALDWIN: Speaking to his humility.

REV. EDWARD BECK, CNN CONTRIBUTOR: Well, obviously, this is a symbolic gesture.

These car companies are donating these cars. So if he wanted a Mercedes or wanted a Rolls-Royce, he would have it.

BALDWIN: He could get it.

BECK: He's choosing to make a symbolic gesture. There are other cars in the motorcade that were bigger than his. But how do you preach against unbridled capitalism, how do you say you're on the side of the poor, the person on the fridge, and then ride around in a luxury vehicle?

So, no, he's again walking the talk. It's a very important symbolic gesture for him and he's made sure that he has stuck to it even in his mode of transportation.

BALDWIN: OK. I think we're just watching the pope so closely. He's I'm being told perhaps just close to jumping in that Popemobile. So, I have to actually leave it here. Peter and Father Edward Beck, thank you very much, because moments from now, the pope expected to canonize an 18th century priest, the first ever on American soil, certainly coming not without some controversy.

My next guest is among a group who has been fighting this effort. We will discuss why.

You're watching CNN's special live coverage, Pope Francis in Washington.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[15:26:50]

CUOMO: All right, no false urgency here. We are about to witness more history.

Just minutes from now, the first Latin American pope will canonize the first Hispanic-American saint, Father Junipero Serra. This is going to happen for the first time on American soil, and it's going to happen at the only national Catholic University here, Catholic University founded 1887, the only university founded by the bishops, so special significance in the Catholic Church. Behind us is the Basilica. Basilica doesn't speak to architecture. It talks to significance to the Catholic Church. This is a high mass. It's very important. It will be a relic of

Junipero Serra, a part of him brought up as part of the mass. Pope Francis said Serra -- quote -- "was one of the founding fathers of the United States, a saintly example of the church's university and special patron of the Hispanic people of the country."

But while the pope believes Serra should be called a saint and so did John Paul XXIII, who started the process by beatifying him, many Native Americans see Serra as something else entirely; 50 different tribes are reportedly fighting Serra's canonization.

Why would they do it? Serra was a priest who opened the first Spanish missions, nine of them in California, starting in the mid-1700s. The missions, what did they do? They converted generations of Native Americans into Catholics. But according to the tribes, they say in that process there was stripping of culture, there was brutalization of Indians, and that was often physical, also emotional, cultural.

One of the people making that case is professor Deborah Miranda. We're going to talk to the professor in a second.

But right now, we want to take you to the live event here. The pope is coming. He's going to pass right by us. As we were mentioning earlier, I wasn't joking. Everyone that the pope passes is blessed by the pontiff, because we are all in the shadow of Peter, because Peter was the rock of the church. He was the first head of the church. He was the first pope, in essence.

This is a blessing for all these people. Yes, this is Catholic University. There is going to be a celebration with 1,000 priests here, that 4,500 are members who are going through the seminary, seminarians, and men and women, novices, as they're called within the church.

But there are thousands and thousands of people here. Many of them Catholics. To be blessed by the pope is about as great a thing as can happen to them. And it's about to happen in just moments.

Let's listen in.

All right, where is Pope Francis right now? He's leaving the Nunciature. It's like the embassy for the Vatican here. He was resting, obviously necessary, 78 years old, huge schedule, big moment on the South Lawn this morning. It's really hot, not as hot as Cuba, but it's hot. And he's got a long day ahead of him.

He's going to be making his way here. He's not far away. And when he comes, we will show it to you.

Now, let's bring in John Allen.