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Pope Francis Arrives To Great Fanfare In The United States; 3:30-4p ET

Aired September 23, 2015 - 15:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


[15:30:00] CHRIS CUOMO, CNN HOST: Big moment on the south lawn this morning. It is really hot, not as hot as Cuba, but it is hot. He has got a long day ahead of him. He's going to be making his way here. He's not far away. And when he comes we'll show it to you.

Now, let's bring in John Allen. He is our expert for all things Pope and Vatican related.

John, you've written about this Pope. You know him well. You were with me tutoring me, mentoring me during the conclave when he was being picked. And when he was, you said, this is a man they believe can restore the faith in the church among the faithful. What are we seeing here that proves that point?

JOHN ALLEN, CNN SENIOR VATICAN ANALYST: Well, Chris, I mean, just look around. I mean, look at the enthusiasm of the people that you see lining the streets to catch a glimpse of Pope Francis. And you mentioned how magical this is and how spiritually significant this is for Catholics and that's true.

But not all those people out there are Catholics. I mean, there are a lot of other kinds of Christians, other religious believers, people with no faith at all, who nevertheless see something special in this man.

Chris, I've said before I think in many ways Francis has become the new Nelson Mandela, that is, the new voice of moral authority on the global stage in a way that is almost apart from rather than because of his office. So it's much more because of his personal credibility, the perception that this isn't just a man who preaches humility and simplicity, but who backs it up with the choices he makes about how he lives his life.

CUOMO: Well, look, it is strong point, John. Thank you very much.

And indeed people have been talking to us and saying, you know, I'm not Catholic. But you know, everything that's going on in the world right now, I want some positive energy. I want to hear a positive message. And the Pope is relevant regardless of your faith.

I'm going to check back in with you when the Pope gets here. We'll take a quick break because we are just minutes from this mass that is going to be very big within the Catholic Church and very big as another point of history in our country. The first mass that Pope Francis is going to give in the United States is just moments away. Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[15:36:22] CUOMO: All right. Let me quickly set the scene for you. We're at Catholic University, the National Catholic University, here established by the bishops in 1887, the only church that has that distinction. We're waiting for the Pope to come here now. There is going to be a big mass for the canonization of Junipero Serra. This is going to be a very special deal for Catholics and it will be very special for Latin Americans also.

And we're going to be -- I'm listening right now to what they're saying behind us. They're actually talking through where the Pope is. There's a big screen showing scenes of his trip and his actual movements here.

So while we're wait forge the Pope, let's talk about the controversy that also surrounding this because it's not just about celebrating the Pope. It's about following this from the perspective of what matters and why both positive and negative.

Let's bring in Professor Deborah Miranda. She is the author of "Bad Indians, a tribal memoir" which is about her family's experience in the missions that were created in part at least nine of the, by Junipero Serra. That was his claim to fame, so to speak, within the Catholic Church, that he helped establish through missionary work in California.

So Deborah, it's clear your efforts aren't stopping this process. What does that mean to you right now? And please make the case for why you don't believe that Junipero Serra should be made a saint.

DEBORAH MIRANDA, NATIVE AMERICAN OPPOSING CANONIZATION: Junipero Serra was an extremely influential man in California. He did found nine of the 21 missions. My objection and the objection of many California Indians is that he is being honored for in fact dishonoring many of our California ancestors. The missions ended up killing about 90 percent of the California Indians present at the time of missionization (ph), creating all kinds of cultural and emotional baggage that we still carry to this day. It's not a question of attacking the Catholic Church or attacking Pope Francis. It's about making sure that the truth is heard and that injustices are not continued on into the 21st century.

CUOMO: Now, you've obviously made this case before 50 different tribes. You know, there was a coalescence of this, in the name of this cause. What was the response from the Vatican? Please, Professor, give it to me quickly because I don't want to cut you off by the Pope showing up.

MIRANDA: Zero. We have gotten zero response from the Vatican. Not a word. We do not exist, it seems, in Pope Francis' world.

CUOMO: What do you think the justification is on their side? Why do you think he would have been beatified? Obviously, they must be as aware of history as you. How do they see it that you believe led them to a different conclusion?

MIRANDA: They're interested in his record and in how many people he managed to convert and in the fact that he at this point in time is a famous Spanish person when the church really needs some positive PR. So they are purposely overlooking the deaths and the cultural genocide of Native American people because it's to their benefit.

CUOMO: And indeed, the church has in fact apologized for things that happened during the colonization and missionary process as well. So it's not as if there's no attention given to the negative aspect of that dynamic.

Professor Deborah Miranda, thank you for laying out the case as to why you think that this is controversial today. We'll continue the discussion online if you want. You can get me on twitter @ChrisCuomo and we'll keep this conversation going for people who want that. Thank you very much for joining us.

Right now we're going to take a quick break in our special coverage because the Pope is on his way and we want to bring that to you live as it happens. Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[15:44:33] CUOMO: A lot of excitement in the air here at Catholic University. The Pope is coming. You'll hear the cheers as they show the motorcade on the big jumbo screen there. One thousand con celebrants, other priests will be up there at the altar with the Pope. Why are they here? For the Pope's first mass in the United States and an important mass at that for Catholics, a canonization mass. They're making a saint today.

Junipero Serra who was a missionary in California. He was seen as a father of the country by the Catholic Church. But it's not free of controversy. We just heard from a professor that says that Native Americans were abused culturally by Serra and others who did this missionary work.

Let's go to Delia Gallagher. The professor told us that the Native Americans had not heard from the Vatican in response to their criticism of this move. What do you know about that, Delia?

DELIA GALLAGHER, CNN VATICAN ANALYST: Well, Chris, I know that Pope Francis is scheduled to meet immediately following this canonization with 20 representatives of the Native American community from California and to have a small time to talk with them. The Vatican spokesman also told us prior to this trip that the Pope is aware of the complications of evangelization in the context of colonization.

And it is not just in California that this happened. Of course in the whole era of colonization you had a lot of instances of abuses by the church, and that is why Pope Francis and indeed John Paul II before him apologized in a public way for the abuses on the part of the church towards indigenous people wherever they were, who were evangelized in perhaps not the right way and in a violent way or an abusive way. Nonetheless, obviously the Pope felt that the good that came out of

that, i.e., the missions and particularly his emphasis on being a missionary, ongoing out and of course evangelizing in a different way today, is of importance and it is important equally that he meet with some of the Native American community of California as he is scheduled to do after this canonization - Chris.

[15:46:44] CUOMO: Well, the after the fact nature of it, Delia, he's going to be hoping for a better late than never response from those Native Americans. And do you think the Pope when meeting will be ready to make that case to him? Is that what their thinking or they think this is just a notion of paying respect?

GALLAGHER: Well, I think we know by now that Pope Francis' style is to go humbly before people, to apologize when that is necessary. Of course, you know, he's not directly responsible for it, but in the name of the church he's publicly apologized for it. And I think that perhaps the meeting with these people is to give them that one-on-one time for the Pope to talk to them about what they might be feeling and probably even listen to them more than say anything in particular to them - Chris.

CUOMO: All right. Delia, thank you very much.

Obviously, many things that happen within the Catholic Church not without controversy. But here on the campus of Catholic University made by the bishops, the only university in the country that has that distinction, in 1887. So it is a very important place for the Catholic Church and the site of the first mass for Pope Francis in America.

Jim Sciutto, I'm looking on the big screen there. They're showing the altar right now. But we've seen some of the 1,000 priests who have come celebrating with the Pope. We've seen the motorcade. Do we know how close he is and what the reaction has been along the way?

JIM SCIUTTO, CNN CHIEF NATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: Well, the reaction has been incredible. Remember, you have thousands of people along this parade route, and they've been waiting many since this morning to get their glimpse of him. And this is really their chance. Now, the trouble, Chris, and this is just part of the nature of the security necessary to protect the Pope, is how the distance that he has to keep from the crowd here. And you have to think it's frustrating for him. He revels in that kind of closeness, that kind of connection.

We saw that this morning when he really had his closest brush with the crowd when he left the Vatican residence before he came to the White House. He even kept the White House waiting because he took some extra time there. He was close there. That was a protective environment. But then when he did that first circle around the White House, the ellipse in the very managed parade route, he was separated by security vehicles and security personnel from really reaching out and touching and being close to those people. And that's something he's going to have to contend with. Now, I was speaking to Anderson Cooper just a short time ago. He made

the point that when he gets to New York, the security personnel are prepared for moments where, for instance, people give him gifts, you know. That's a big part of this. He's used to that. People sometimes throw him gifts. They are prepared for that. They don't want to stand in the way of that. But, you know, it's tough. You can imagine for this Pope to operate under those kinds of restrictions.

So moments like this when he's on the altar with a thousand priests who aren't going to forget this moment certainly saying mass with him there, you know, any connection like that's going to be probably the highlight of the trip for him.

CUOMO: All right. We're looking at the Pope mobile right here, the jeep wrangler. The Pope being Americanized by the vehicle he's driving around. It's certainly a big day as Jim Sciutto pointed out for the people here. Catholic University, you know, obviously, the significance speaks to the name. Thirty-five hundred seminarians and men and women novesists (ph) so people in the study of the faith will be here in attendance for Pope Francis. A very big deal obviously for Catholics.

And a small point of solace to go to what Jim was saying about how the Pope can't engage as much as he might like. If you are brought by faith to be in the presence of Pope Francis out there on the street, you are all being blessed as he goes along if you choose to believe in your faith because you are in the shadow of Peter. So he doesn't have to stop and bless you specifically. You are being blessed. And that should be some solace for people whose faith brings them here.

Now, what brings us here this is the event of this being the first mass of someone very relevant in the world regardless of what you choose to believe in. And we are seeing right now the motorcade coming on the big screen. There is the Pope. He is waving, Pope Francis, to people as he goes by. Again, those people de facto being blessed by his passage.

Here we are awaiting the mass. Let's watch for a little bit as he gets closer and closer see as this audience starts to respond to the proximity.

(CHEERS AND APPLAUSE)

[15:51:00] CUOMO: The Pope nears.

(CHEERS AND APPLAUSE)

CUOMO: We are right now, what do you see? What do you hear?

CAROL COSTELLO, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Chris Cuomo, you talking to me?

CUOMO: I am Carol Costello.

COSTELLO: OK. I'm right across the street from the Basilica. Everyone has their iPhones up in the air, their iPads. They're waiting for the Pope to get close enough so they can snap a picture. And of course, as you know, this outdoor mass is about to take place 25,000 people are waiting to hear the Pope speak. They're very, very excited. They don't even care if they actually see the Pope in person because as you said it's only important that they're in his presence and that they will be blessed. Some of them have been waiting out here since noon.

CUOMO: You can see him now.

We want to welcome our viewers, Carol, not just here in the United States but around the world as we simulcast with CNN international. The Pope is coming. We can see the Pope mobile right now. As he comes closer you'll hear the crowd as they can start to see him, not just on the big screen but before their own eyes.

(CHEERS AND APPLAUSE)

CUOMO: Again, to set the scene, we are here on the campus of Catholic University founded in 1887 by the U.S. bishops, the only university to have that distinction and the site of the first mass in the United States of Pope Francis. People are running up to meet him. Obviously, there are fences to keep them back from the Pope mobile. But for those here many of whom are Catholics, probably most of whom are believers, this is a very big moment.

(CHEERS AND APPLAUSE)

CUOMO: Here he comes. Papa Francisco! Papa Francisco!

(CHEERS AND APPLAUSE)

[15:55:27] CUOMO: The Pope just passed us here. You should have seen all the media rushing down, not just for photos but to be in the presence of a man, again who is relevant no matter what your faith or lack thereof. And for the people here on the campus of Catholic University what a moment to see the Pope. He's just beaming in the Pope mobile. Such a big smile on his face trying to make eye contact with as many as he can. Waving and of course showering a blessing on those who believe.

How can he do it? Well, he is the Pope. And for Catholics that means if you are in his presence you are in the shadow of Peter, the rock of the church, the first Pope. So now he is here on the campus of Catholic University to say his first mass in the United States and a very special mass, a canonization mass, a saint will be made today. And not just any saint, the first Latin-American Pope will make a Hispanic saint here in America. Huge for the Latin community here in the country. Huge for the Catholics to have an American saint made in the United States. A big day any way you look at it.

And there he is. Pope Francis on American soil. History for him his first trip. This man at this moment and all political and cultural history with this message he's bringing of tolerance and inclusion. The timing couldn't be better for him and for those who are willing to receive that message. Let's keep watching and listening in. The pictures tell the story.

(CHEERS AND APPLAUSE)

[15:58:25] ANDERSON COOPER, CNN HOST, AC 360: And welcome to our viewers here in the United States and around the world. This is "the LEAD." I'm Anderson Cooper in today for Jake Tapper.

The national lead, his holiness takes Washington, D.C. by storm. You're looking at live pictures from Catholic University with Pope Francis just made his way through the crowds there riding in the Pope mobile, waving to thousands of adoring worshippers. He'll celebrate his first ever mass on American soil in just minutes. We are going to be covering it all for you this afternoon.

I want to go right to our Chris Cuomo and Rosa Flores, they are at Catholic University. You can see basilica of the national shrine, the Immaculate Conception where the Pope is making his way through the crowd there.

Chris, this is the largest Roman Catholic Church in United States. Set the scene for us.

CUOMO: Boy, I tell you that symbolism couldn't be greater here, Catholic University. The name speaks for itself. 1887 founded by the U.S. bishops, the Basilica here of the Immaculate Conception for the canonization of the saint. Pope Francis' first mass in the United States and its history on so many levels regardless of your faith.

And your timing was perfect, Anderson. Here's Pope Francis. Right now, he's going to pass right by our station. You're going to see him as close as you can get if you're not here in person. Everyone who is here who brings faith is blessed by Pope Francis by being in the shadow of Peter, Peter the first Pope and now Pope Francis. Here he is.

Pope Francisco! Pope Francisco!

What a moment for these people here. What a moment for them, Anderson. As you know, I'm Catholic. But whether you are or not, the excitement is so palpable here.