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Thousands Welcome Pope to Philadelphia; Abuse Survivor Reacts to Pope's Message; John Boehner's Resignation Sparks Succession Fight; Aired 1-2p ET

Aired September 26, 2015 - 13:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[13:00:31] FREDRICKA WHITFIELD, CNN ANCHOR: Happening right now in the NEWSROOM, Pope Francis prays in the city of brotherly love. A million people expected to hear his messages throughout the day. This was one of the first powerful moments, when the Pope arrived in Philadelphia, a special blessing for this boy, emblematic of Pope Francis' touch.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He, like, encourages us all, like, rich and poor and everyone, to just to like be together as brothers and sisters.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WHITFIELD: We're following the Pope through Philadelphia to Independence Hall.

Hello, and welcome our viewers here in the U.S. and around the world. I'm Fredricka Whitfield.

Today the city of brotherly love welcomes the Pope, from mass this morning at the Basilica, his speech on immigration later on today at Independence Hall, to his evening prayer service. All of this expected to draw more than a million people.

CNN is covering his visit like no other network. Our Anderson Cooper and Christiane Amanpour are in Philadelphia for the final leg of the Pope's historic visit.

Anderson, Christiane, and company, hello to you.

ANDERSON COOPER, CNN ANCHOR: Good afternoon, Fredricka. What a day here in Philadelphia. Pope Francis spending his final full day on American soil in Philadelphia, the city where American democracy and independence, of course, were born.

CHRISTIAN AMANPOUR, CNN ANCHOR: And of course for hours, thousands of people have been lining, some 12 hours before even sunrise, lining to catch a glimpse of the Pope himself. These are live pictures, we think --

COOPER: No, they're --

AMANPOUR: No, they are not. COOPER: Those are live pictures.

AMANPOUR: These are live pictures -- thank you very much. From Logan Square. All the people who have been coming here to try to see the Pope. Earlier this morning, as we said, he was in the Basilicas of St. Peter and Paul. He is now resting at the seminary here in town, and then he's going to go in a few hours to Independence Hall, where he'll deliver a speech to immigrants, mostly about religious freedom, touching on some of the most important issues that affect, obviously, so many immigrants to this country, at this massively important time.

COOPER: And as you pointed out, Christiane, not only giving a speech, doing it from the podium that Abraham Lincoln himself used for the Gettysburg address. I understand they actually had to build a special sort of metal support for the podium, because there was fear, you know --

AMANPOUR: It might collapse.

COOPER: It could collapse. I mean, this is --

AMANPOUR: I mean, it gives you chills, actually, to think of that. Such an historic, historic piece of equipment, for such an historic speech that was delivered.

COOPER: Yes. And then of course you will be here later tonight, where already -- there are empty seats behind us, but there are people lined up, waiting to go through metal detectors, waiting to go through security for this event, for the families, which is really, Delia Gallagher, who's joining us here, our Vatican correspondent, also Bruce Feiler, best-selling author, it's really an international gathering of the faithful.

DELIA GALLAGHER, CNN VATICAN CORRESPONDENT: It is. I mean, you just have to walk down the street, you hear all the different languages. You hear a lot of Spanish. I'm sure they're coming out in full force for their Pope. So certainly that's a kind of outreach on the part of the Pope. But it's received a great response on the part of the people. I think a lot of immigrants, whatever their country, feel some kind of -- as we heard some people say, attraction towards him.

COOPER: And, Bruce Feiler, this Pope, this church has got to feel good so far about how the entire trip to the United States has been, when you consider especially this is his first time here.

BRUCE FEILER, CNN CONTRIBUTOR: You think about what we began the week, Monday night, here in Washington, D.C., and Christiane, you were there also, and we were talking about what could go wrong, we were talking about the security, we were -- and that's gone great, but we were also talking about his penchant for surprise, and that maybe he would break away from security and kind of reach out.

That also hasn't happened. It's -- the script has been followed. It's been quite magically produced, I would say. It showed some of the rifts in the church. I think, for real, that's there. But I think the messaging from the church's point of view and from the U.S.' point of view has been almost ideal so far.

AMANPOUR: And he definitely talked about the challenges of the church, and he's also sort of brought in, not just Catholics, not just Christians, but Jews, Muslims as well. Particularly, that was shown at Ground Zero, that interfaith service. But all around, whenever you talk to anybody, whether they are Catholic or not, he seems to, you know, get -- light their fire.

Carol Costello is down there, not far from where we are at Benjamin Franklin Parkway, where thousands are getting ready for what Anderson was talking about, this concert, just behind that's going to take place later this evening -- Carol.

Do you think Carol can hear us? It's really noisy.

CAROL COSTELLO, CNN ANCHOR: I can, I can. I can. I'm sitting in a group of wonderful young people at the World Family event and they're going to -- they've been singing for me for the past hour or so.

[13:05:11] And I'm telling you, it's so peaceful and lovely because we're waiting hours and hours for Pope Francis to arrive, but these lovely young people are keeping things interesting and joyful.

Jordan is here. You guys are from Atlanta. You've been here for the past two days. What have you been doing?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We've been walking around through town, giving books and rosaries, and just things to homeless people that they may need food. We give them these little packets, teach them how to pray the rosary, and we ask them what they may want us to, like, to pray for. And we write it down, and every day, we will pray for those things. And --

COSTELLO: That's lovely. That's very lovely. So it all culminates when the Pope's motorcade comes down Benjamin Franklin Parkway. How will that feel?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Amazing. Like I honestly don't have words for that. A lot of us here actually skipped our homecoming to be here. So --

COSTELLO: Oh, really? They're high school students, by the way. That's big. That's very big. What about this Pope touches you?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It's just, he connects with all of us, and he loves children. He just -- I don't know what it is about him but he has this warming feeling, when he looks at you and he smiles, you just feel good. It's just -- it's contagious.

COSTELLO: I would have to agree with that. You know, everybody I speak to here, Christiane and Anderson, say that the Pope gives them hope that things will get better. He's an optimist and that's what they love about Pope Francis.

COOPER: Yes. AMANPOUR: And that girl just said he loves children. And he really

has made that a motive of all his travel, even at the Vatican, he reaches out to children. As Jesus said, right, suffer the little children to come unto me. It's about children, it's about the youngest. And again, Miguel is out there in the crowd, too, somewhere.

COOPER: That's right. Right by Independence Hall where the Pope is going to speak, as we talked about, using the podium from the Gettysburg address.

Miguel, set the scene for us. I know there's a lot of people who have been waiting a long time to see the pontiff.

MIGUEL MARQUEZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes. Thousands of people have been waiting hours. They're going to wait hours more. About 4:30 p.m. Eastern Time is when the Pope will come down to the street here. We plan to have -- there should be 50,000 to 60,000 people down here by the time he gets here.

It is an absolute celebration down here at this point, with a band playing. I take it you guys are excited for the Pope to get here?

(CHEERS)

MARQUEZ: The themes that the Pope is going to hit here are immigration and how that is important to the U.S. and he will stand at the cradle of American democracy at Independence Hall, speaking from the lectern that Abraham Lincoln used during the Gettysburg address, speech that will be filled with symbolism and the people of this place are looking very forward to it -- Anderson.

COOPER: Yes, no doubt about that. There is a lot more to talk about. We're going to take a short break, our coverage continues in just a moment.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[13:11:32] COOPER: Well, the praise for Pope Francis is practically drowning out painful outcries from survivors of the church sex abuse scandal. Many of the victims say they feel in a way re-victimized by this visit. It brings up a lot of memories especially after he praises bishops saying they showed courage and generous commitment to the victims.

Pennsylvania State Representative Mark Rozzi said he was sexually molested by a priest when he was just 13 years old. Here's what he told Fredricka Whitfield just a short time ago.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

STATE REP. MARK ROZZI (D), BERKS COUNTY, PENNSYLVANIA: He better not be patting the bishops on the back. That's unacceptable. His other statement he said was he realized how much the pain in recent years has weighed upon the bishops. Are you kidding me? Is that a joke? I have three childhood friends

who have committed suicide that, you know, their families are suffering, they have suffered, their entire lives from this tragedy and it's the church that has turned the back on victims and they continue to turn their back on victims.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

AMANPOUR: So this is still a very painful, very open and ongoing wound. Becky Ianni is a spokeswoman for the Survivors Network of Those Abused by Priests, it's known as SNAP. And she's here joining us all to talk about this.

Becky, as the state representative said there, this feels like a re- victimization because they don't feel like this Pope, despite what he's done, called for a special tribunal, even -- in St. Patrick's in Washington saying that these were crimes, what happened in the church. They don't yet feel that it's being dealt with well enough.

BECKY IANNI, SURVIVORS NETWORK OF THOSE ABUSES BY PRIESTS (SNAP): You know, the other thing that he said in St. Patrick's, he talked about the bishops' pain. He called this a difficult moment. My abuse is a difficult moment for the bishops? It's a difficult moment for victims. He talked about the bishops' sacrifice, he talked about the bishops' courage. You know, bishops want to have courage. They need to post on their Web sites the names of all predator priests. They need to go forward and fight -- lobby with us for the SOLs, not against us. That would make a bishop --

COOPER: The SOLs are the statute of limitations which --

IANNI: Yes, that's right.

COOPER: To extend the statute of limitations, which is right now done state by state and many victims, you know, feel it's the statute of limitations is over before they're really -- have been able to come forward.

IANNI: Yes, I didn't come forward until the age of 48. 40 years after my abuse. And that's not unusual. So a victim comes forward and they want to find justice and they go to the police and they find out they can't charge them criminally or they can't file a civil suit. And then therefore, what are their choices? So we -- you know, we think that the church should want to make those laws because that will make children safer.

AMANPOUR: Tell us what happened to you.

IANNI: I was abused by a priest in Alexandria, Virginia, from the ages of 9 to 11. He was newly ordained, he came to our parish, everybody loved him. I loved him. And he befriended our family, ate dinner at our house, he went on vacation with us, he bought us our first color television, and he used that sort of love and adoration I had for him to start abusing me.

AMANPOUR: And how long did it take you to, you know, summon the courage to actually tell your parents or confront the church?

IANNI: Well, at the age of 48, I came across a picture of myself with him and everything came flooding back and I said --

COOPER: Really, that was the key?

IANNI: That was the key. And I remember spending, you know, hours and hours on the bathroom floor, praying to God that I just -- just please let me die and not wake up in the morning because it was so painful.

[13:15:05] And so at that point, I went to the church, hoping that they would tell me that it wasn't my fault, that I wasn't going to hell for telling on a priest, because that's what my perpetrator told me, and that, you know, that I was loved by God. And I didn't get those things from the first priest that I met. So I fell away from God. I fell away from the church. And I was devastated. And I didn't know what to do. So another survivor suggested I call SNAP.

COOPER: You know, we just heard from the state representative who himself was abused when he was 13. He says that he has many friends who were abused by the same priest, who have committed suicide. I mean, who, in their lives -- this is not something that goes -- ever goes away.

IANNI: Yes, we have a list of 100 people that have committed suicide. And those are the only ones we know about. And I guess our concern, too, is not just the victims that have come forward, but what about all those other victims out there who are afraid to?

AMANPOUR: And Anderson, Becky, everybody, the statistics lead people to believe that as many as 100,000 children here in the United States have been abused in this manner, and that there have been many suicides, but there just hasn't been the accountability. The statistics show, according to reports, that perhaps 4,500 priests have these charges leveled against them and only several hundred have been held accountable. It's cost the church hundreds of millions of dollars, and I'm hearing that some in SNAP, yourself and maybe some others, feel that there should be firings of a large number of priests and bishops.

IANNI: You know, it's -- a priest abuses, and if a bishop would immediately remove that priest and make it public, children would be safer. But instead, they might move him or they might --

COOPER: Does that still happen?

AMANPOUR: Yes.

IANNI: Yes, that still happens. There was a recent article that came --

AMANPOUR: "Global Post."

IANNI: In the "Global Post" that came out.

COOPER: Yes.

IANNI: That said there were five credibly accused, proven or admitted abusers who were allowed to go to South America and they are actually in -- working in South America.

COOPER: I saw that "Global Post" article and it was shocking.

IANNI: Yes. And, you know, and to me, that's shocking. All those children. And they're not being protected.

AMANPOUR: So what must this Pope do?

IANNI: You know, this Pope has to be courageous himself. He can't sit back and say, I'm not going to tell you what to do. He has to demand accountability and he has to fire or publicly dismiss any bishop who endangers children. We have Bishop Finn, and everyone says, well, look, he resigned, but he was allowed to resign, but not one person said he resigned because he endangered children.

AMANPOUR: It is an incredibly, incredibly divisive and appalling scandal that is one reason why so many Catholics have actually lost faith over the last decade plus that this has emerged into the public sphere. As I said, the Pope did create -- he's the first one to create a special tribunal to hold those guilty, those charged accountable, but before the first one was going to stand trial, he died.

I did ask Archbishop Joseph Kurtz about this. He's the president of the U.S. Conference of Catholic Bishops and this is what he told me, particularly about the issue of moving those priests who had charges against them around, as you said, to parishes outside this country. This is what he told us.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

AMANPOUR: Do you think this Pope is a Pope who wants to be defined by the culture wars, so to speak? It is almost as if he's saying, these issues of sexuality, of the social values, yes, we have to deal with them, but actually, there's so much more to deal with in this world.

ARCHBISHOP JOSEPH KURTZ, LOUISVILLE, KENTUCKY: He's a man of faith. He wants to point to Jesus Christ, and he says, I want to see the person before the idea. If you notice, that was a theme in Cuba. And he says, you know, the person means that I'm not going to spend all of my energy arguing with someone. I will -- I will be true to my convictions, I'll be a son of the church, as he says it, I'm not changing church teaching, but he says, I truly want to engage. I want to learn from that person and I want to make sure that everyone is welcome.

His talks yesterday, he must have said it three dozen times. He said, the message of Christ salvation is meant for all of us, for everyone. And then he said, no one is to be excluded. So he really, I think, is asking us to see that person. And I do believe that brings out the best in people. If cheers are any indication, and we saw a lot of it, including from our brother bishops, that's a sign that he's touching a cord with people. And I kind of like that.

AMANPOUR: Let me ask you about the message to the bishops because it was the first time, I don't know if it will be the only time, that he deals with the issue of the sexual abuse scandal in the church, which has rocked this church to the point that it sent people out of the church. And obviously the Pope wants to bring people back to the church.

KURTZ: Exactly.

AMANPOUR: He addressed them as crimes.

KURTZ: He did.

AMANPOUR: And he said, this must never happen again.

KURTZ: He did.

AMANPOUR: But the problem is that many of the victims, many of the victims' groups say that, actually, even the existing laws, the existing protections are not being properly implemented.

[13:20:15] That there are lots of priests who have been accused, who have just been removed from their diocese or their parishes in the United States and sent over to those in Latin America. "Global Post" did a big investigation on that.

What do you say to people who say the Pope is still not doing this tough enough. Is still not taking a tough enough stance?

KURTZ: Well, he uses the term "healing." and I think he looks at each person who may be harmed by what he rightly calls a crime, a crime of abuse. He talks to the bishops about restoring authority and trust. He uses the word trust. So once again, I think he's focusing on the individual. And each individual is going to be unique. We know that. But the harm done can only be undone by healing. And so I believe our Holy Father is reaching out to people.

I can say -- I can't speak for every country in the world or even every diocese in the United States, but within the Archdiocese of Louisville where I serve, we really are intent -- humbly but we really are intent in addressing issues. There's no one who is serving within the archdiocese who -- no priest or layperson, leader, who has a credible charge of abuse against them. That's something we should all be doing. Now I believe that's the direction that we're going on. And our holy father is very, very strong on that. But he does emphasize healing. And the fact that we do need to listen to one another.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

AMANPOUR: So that was Archbishop Joseph Kurtz, the archbishop of Louisville, Kentucky. And there have been questions. We've questioned the Vatican about whether the Pope will meet with victims and we've been told, maybe, maybe here in Philadelphia. We're still waiting to see whether that happens. COOPER: Becky, what happened to the priest who abused you?

IANNI: He committed suicide in 1992 after another victim of his approached him.

COOPER: So when he was confronted by another victim --

IANNI: Yes. After he was confronted by another victim, he went to a monastery and said he would talk to the victim when he got back and he shot himself with a shotgun.

COOPER: That was in 1992?

IANNI: Yes, that's right.

COOPER: Becky Ianni, I appreciate you being with us and speaking about your experiences. Thank you so much.

IANNI: Thank you for having me.

COOPER: Yes. There is a lot more to come from here in Philadelphia. A lot of events ahead. We will bring them all to you, all of them to you as they happen. Right now, let's go back to Fredricka.

WHITFIELD: All right. Some powerful words on a very sensitive topic. And in my conversation with Representative Rozzi, he said, he made it very clear he will not be celebrating the Pope's visit there to Philadelphia, not until he hears something much more concrete in his view. That means those who have abused children over the years, those priests, instead of receiving pensions, he says, they should be receiving prison time.

All right, we're keeping a close watch on the visit of the Pope there in Philadelphia and other developing stories today, including House Speaker John Boehner sending shock waves through Washington, announcing that he's giving up the gavel next month.

Straight ahead, what some Republican presidential candidates are saying.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[13:27:13] WHITFIELD: All right. Welcome back. I'm Fredricka Whitfield. We'll continue our coverage of the Pope in a moment. But first our top stories.

Controversial Kentucky county clerk Kim Davis says she's switching political parties and joining the GOP. Davis, who was elected as a Democrat, has been widely supported by Christian conservatives for her staunch opposition to gay marriage. Republican presidential candidate Mike Huckabee and Ted Cruz both visited her after she was released from jail for refusing to issue marriage licenses to same-sex couples.

And a new e-mail chain between former Secretary of State Hillary Clinton and then commander of the U.S. Central Command, David Petraeus, has been found on Clinton's private server. The discovery is raising questions about whether some of Clinton's e-mails were mistakenly marked as personal and therefore not turned over to the State Department. Officials say the e-mail chain dates back to 2009 and does not appear to contain classified information.

Separately on Friday, a State Department official said a, quote, "small number," end quote, of Benghazi-related e-mails that Clinton had not turned over had been discovered.

And President Barack Obama announcing he has reached an agreement with China's president on the issue of cyber theft. Obama says the two leaders have vowed to not carry out cyber attacks against the other and warns he is already -- he is ready, rather, to impose sanctions if that promise is not kept. The news comes during a state visit by the Chinese leader.

And the Internet is abuzz today with many saying Michelle Obama stole the show at Friday night's state dinner for the Chinese president. Her gown, custom made by Chinese American designer, Vera Wang, and she tweeted -- Vera Wang did -- that it is such a privilege as an American of Chinese heritage to have dressed the first lady.

All right, still ahead in the CNN NEWSROOM, House Speaker John Boehner says he is out, and now the battle begins to replace him.

And our live coverage of Pope Francis in America continues. Back to Philadelphia right after this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[13:30:52] WHITFIELD: All right. Mortgage rates were mixed this week. Take a look.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

WHITFIELD: All right. Hello, again. Thanks so much for joining us. I'm Fredricka Whitfield.

A battle royale for the House speakership could be brewing between establishment and Tea Party Republicans. That's after House Speaker John Boehner's stunning announcement on Friday that he will resign at the end of October following years of contention between the two wings of the Republican Party.

Our Athena Jones joins me now live from Iowa City with the latest on this.

So you're out on the campaign trail in Iowa City covering Carly Fiorina. So how are, overall, presidential candidates reacting to Boehner's news?

ATHENA JONES, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hi, Fredricka. Well, the candidates are reacting largely positively. Everyone that I've heard from -- speak has said good things about the fact that Speaker Boehner is stepping down.

I have been following Carly Fiorina around Iowa for the past couple of days. Take a listen to how she responded to the news of Boehner's resignation yesterday, followed by Donald Trump and also Senator Ted Cruz. Take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CARLY FIORINA (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Every leader has a season. And I appreciate Mr. Boehner's leadership and I think he is doing the right thing stepping aside now.

DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Well, I think it's time. I mean, it's really time for him. He's -- a lot of problems. We got to get the country going. And I think it really is time.

SEN. TED CRUZ (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Yesterday, John Boehner was speaker of the House. You all come to town and somehow that changes.

(CHEERS AND APPLAUSE)

CRUZ: My only request is, can you come more often?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

JONES: So you heard there the response from the crowd at the Values Voter Summit. These are conservative voters, responding very positively to the news that Speaker Boehner was stepping down. Earlier in the day, when Senator Marco Rubio made the initial announcement that Boehner was quitting that same crowd erupted in hoops and hollers and applause.

[13:35:00] And that we've seen that same sentiment, Fredricka, out here on the campaign trail. I spoke with a lot of voters yesterday at Carly Fiorina's events, who, to a person, were glad to hear that Speaker Boehner was leaving. One man in Dubuque told me that he didn't feel that the speaker did enough to challenge President Obama. And that is, of course, what House conservatives have been saying all along. That is why the speaker is leaving his position.

And it also goes to show you that this is -- the reason for the appeal behind these so-called outsider candidates that we've been talking about for the past several months. The Republican voters don't want to see a politician go to the White House right now because they're fed up with politicians in Washington, including their own leadership in Congress, Fred.

WHITFIELD: All right, Athena Jones, thanks so much. Keep us posted there from Iowa City.

So John Boehner says his decision the step down had nothing to do with his emotional meeting with the Pope earlier in the week.

Joining me right now, Douglas Brinkley, CNN presidential historian.

Good to see you, Douglas.

DOUGLAS BRINKLEY, CNN PRESIDENTIAL HISTORIAN: Nice to see you. WHITFIELD: So as Athena Jones helped remind us, in some GOP circles,

there's cheering. Others are kind of scratching their heads. And then from the president of the United States, we saw some real compassion. So Boehner said that, you know, he's out. And I'm quoting him now, where he says, you know, it's as simple as that. But in your view, is it that simple?

BRINKLEY: Well, it's not that simple. The writing's been on the wall for some time now. You know, the -- being the speaker of the House is not a luxurious job. You just get beat up by all sides all the time. Really since Tip O'Neill, none of the speakers have survived, but particularly, Speaker Boehner has a difficult time because the right- wing of his party constantly wants to hammer away at Barack Obama as being the worst president ever, and he's trying to get deals done, and he hasn't really had a very successful tenure as speaker.

He's just turned 65. The Pope came to town and he was one of the reasons that Pope Francis spoke at Congress. So I think the timing turns out to be about right, but he really doesn't have too many people that thought he should stay.

WHITFIELD: And then, in terms of possible successors, it was even John Boehner who said, you know, he thinks House majority leader Kevin McCarthy might be, you know, an easy shoo-in, but then I wonder once, I guess, he has made his endorsement, if that now undermines any kind of leverage McCarthy may have had among the others.

BRINKLEY: Well, Paul Ryan of Wisconsin, one of the great stars of the Republican Party, very smartly said, I don't want anything to do with the speakership. I want a future political career. Kevin McCarthy may get it, but he's a very polarizing figure. And he's somebody of the hard right. He's wanted to, for example, in California, get three million acres of national forest and wilderness and open it up for extraction and drilling.

And you know, he's going to be a deeply controversial speaker, but hence -- this is the same old story. The outsiders and the insiders. Boehner is seen too much as an insider, and the people really cheering his demise here, people like the clips you just played. Donald Trump and Fiorina and Ben Carson and the rest.

WHITFIELD: So there have been many who criticized that John Boehner didn't do enough to, you know, go to the White House, to talk with the president or try to nudge him or persuade him. Yet the flipside to that is that perhaps, you know, he was a little bit too hard, you know, that there were some very, you know, terse, you know, kind of language associated with the relationship between Boehner and the president.

So, which is it, in your view, in terms of, you know, what that legacy, of the relationship between the House speaker and the White House, what would be written about that relationship?

BRINKLEY: Well, I think disappointment about the relationship. Many people dreamed it would be a Tip O'Neill-Ronald Reagan situation where things could get done. Instead, I think once Obamacare got pushed through early in President Obama's first term, you know, Boehner was always -- the Congress couldn't stand anything that had the name "Obama" with it, and Boehner -- really didn't want to be in a photo-op with the president. If he went golfing with him, he got ridiculed by his own party. It's really the -- a story going on now --

WHITFIELD: Or the beer summit.

BRINKLEY: Yes, the beer summit, all this.

WHITFIELD: Right.

BRINKLEY: It didn't really work for Boehner because his own party, for the hard right in his party would savage him for such things.

WHITFIELD: All right. Douglas Brinkley, always a pleasure talking to you. Thank you so much.

BRINKLEY: Thank you.

WHITFIELD: And still ahead, our live coverage of Pope Francis in America. The world awaiting his big speech on immigration in Philadelphia this afternoon. And on religious reform. We'll go back to Philadelphia after this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[13:43:36] COOPER: And welcome back to our continuing coverage of Pope Francis here in Philadelphia. It's already been a very exciting day for the people in Philadelphia, who have gotten a chance to see the Pope as he came from the airport to the Basilica. He's now at a seminary, where he was getting some lunch, getting some rest. He was welcomed by about 150 seminarians, who welcomed him with song and great cheer and applause.

Let's hope he's getting some rest because he has a very busy day ahead of him and there are more and more people arriving all along the route where this Pope will be.

Let's check in with our Rosa Flores, who is out there amongst the crowds. Huge crowds expected throughout the day. I'm told we just lost the uplink to Rosa. We'll try to reestablish that. But thankfully I'm here with CNN's chief international correspondent and our own --

(LAUGHTER)

AMANPOUR: Here we are.

COOPER: My favorite, Christiane Amanpour, and Bruce Feiler, best- selling author, and Delia Gallagher, Vatican correspondent.

Bruce, the Pope is going to be going to Independence Hall to make a speech about religious freedom, which is obviously something of great importance to many people here. And something a lot of people are going to be listening very closely to what he said because he's addressed a little bit on this trip so far, but not as focused a speech as we're going to hear.

FEILER: And we have this image on the screen here. And you can see the platform where he's going to speech. Just to the left of that is the room where the Continental Congress on July 4th, 1776, signed the Declaration of Independence. The last act on that date that the Congress did was to appoint a three-person committee to come up with a seal for the new United States. It was Thomas Jefferson, John Adams, and Benjamin Franklin.

[13:45:10] They came back seven weeks later and said that they wanted Moses on the seal of the United States because it was leaving oppression, going into religious freedom. And he has, you know, mentioned this, as you know, Christiane, in Congress --

AMANPOUR: Right.

FEILER: The District Ground Zero.

AMANPOUR: He looked straight at it. Also the image of Moses, looking at him as he addressed the Joint Meeting of Congress.

FEILER: Across from where he was standing at that podium is an image of Moses. And so I think to speak to these immigrants, the -- what was Moses' message to the people before they entered the land of Israel? Remember the stranger. Love the stranger because you were strangers ones in a land with no hope. And that is a message directly to the immigrants of this country.

COOPER: And certainly the issue of religious freedom is something which is very timely, not only here in the United States, but all around the world, Delia.

GALLAGHER: Well, there's another connection to the Moses reference, which is that religious freedom for the Pope is, yes, freedom to express religious sentiment and to practice your religion given by governments, but for the Pope, the government's job is to protect religious freedom. The person that gives religious freedom is God. And so that's where the Pope comes in and says, you know, governments have to protect us, you have to do this, but we are free by virtue of the fact that we are created by God and that leads into a whole other series of -- you know, creative possibilities for society. That's where it goes.

AMANPOUR: And he spoke so clearly about the most horrific experiences that we're witnessing over in the Middle East right now. The atrocities, he said, committed in the name of religion and even God.

(CROSSTALK)

FEILER: I thought that was the highlight of the U.N. speech, where he talked about freedom for Christians throughout the Middle East.

AMANPOUR: And -- yes. Yes.

COOPER: Yes.

AMANPOUR: And in the Congress, too. And he's talking about the Yazidis. Exactly. It's -- I mean, it's amazing.

COOPER: I'm told we do have contact with Rosa Flores again. And as we said, I mean, the excitement is palpable out in the streets and even people waiting there, waiting out in the sun, they're waiting for hours. Many have slept in the locations where they're at, but you don't hear people complaining. There is joy on people's faces.

Rosa, I'm sure you're seeing that out there as well.

ROSA FLORES, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, you know, very little sleep has happened here. I want to set the scene for you, Anderson, because if you look this way, as far as your eye can see, there are thousands of people. Now there's so much emotion here, a lot of us have not slept. They are on little food, little sleep, but they are going because the emotion is very high. They are hoping and waiting for Pope Francis to arrive here and celebrate mass with the pontiff.

Now for the world meeting of families, 17,000 families registered. And this is the biggest world Meeting of Families event that they have ever happened -- that has ever happened. But, again, lots of excitement here. And I'm going to be here with the crowd, hoping to bring you a little more color from the stands -- Anderson.

COOPER: All right, Rosa, we'll check -- we're going to check in with you. We -- a lot more to cover here in Philadelphia. There's also a lot of news happening around the world. Let's go back to CNN world headquarters in Atlanta and my buddy, Fredricka Whitfield -- Fredricka.

WHITFIELD: All right. Thanks so much.

All right. Still ahead, Hillary Clinton wooing millennial voters. Sitting down for an interview with "Girls" star Lena Dunham. Will it help Clinton connect with particularly younger voters?

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[13:52:40] WHITFIELD: Welcome back. I'm Fredricka Whitfield.

The nation's capital is still digesting the shocking announcement by House Speaker John Boehner that he is calling it quits and will step down from his role at the end of October. Democratic House minority leader Nancy Pelosi says the move has seismic implications for the House of Representatives.

Joining me right now to break it all down, Ellis Henican, columnist at "News Day." Good to see you. And political strategist Brian Morgenstern. Good to see you as well.

ELLIS HENICAN, COLUMNIST, "NEWS DAY": You too.

WHITFIELD: OK. So, gentlemen, I wonder, you know, Brian, you first, is there a connection between Boehner's resignation, the timing of it and avoiding a government shutdown?

BRIAN MORGENSTERN, POLITICAL STRATEGIST: There may be, but I don't know that that's the controlling factor. I think there are a lot of them. You know, I mean, five years as speaker is not a short term. It's a pretty long time. He talked about how he had thought about retirement at the end of last term, and how he's probably going to retire at some point this time. He got the Pope to visit which is obviously a huge deal for him. That may have been an inspiring factor. I don't know if the shutdown is the reason. I think there are a lot of them. I think he felt it was time.

WHITFIELD: And then, Ellis, you know, about that timing, though, while it did stun so many even John Boehner said, you know, in his press conference, trying to offer some clarity that a few weeks ago if not a couple of months ago he was thinking about it, after seeing the Pope, he thought again about it that evening and then suddenly the morning of, he said a prayer and he decided now is a great time. And then called it a simple decision to make. Do you buy that?

HENICAN: I don't think it was too simple. I mean, he's had an untenable relationship with the rigid people in his own caucus.

Fredericka, compared to what's coming next, we may well look back on the Boehner years as the time of great agreement and cooperation and harmony in Congress. If you think --

WHITFIELD: What do you mean? Because Boehner had described -- you know, I guess there had been many who said he tried to play nice. He was the guy who tried to play it nice at the very beginning, but then it backfired.

HENICAN: He, at least, believed in the concept of trying to achieve something.

Fredericka, if you think that current Congress has been achieving too much, you're really going to like the one that's coming next because these guys are not even in the -- they don't even accept the concept that they ought to try and work with the president and get something done. Almost exactly the opposite, in fact.

MORGENSTERN: See, and, Ellis, let me frame this a little differently. The reason Boehner, I think, for a lot of his term had so much trouble is because he was a traditional legislator, which means he grew the vote.

[13:55:07] Now back when I was on the Hill, that meant giving out pork or whatever it took to get enough votes to pass the bill to govern. And that led to tremendous spending even under Republican leadership which damaged his credibility with conservatives.

Now in a divided government, he's had to cooperate with Democrats, which further damages his brand. He to an extent is a victim of circumstances, but he's also to an extent outdated because we're in a world of Twitter wars and reality TV, and he's a backroom deal maker.

WHITFIELD: So if the way he was doing it is outdated, what is around the corner? What's the new way of getting things done or perhaps digging in your heels on Capitol Hill?

HENICAN: Well, much more digging in your heels than getting things done because the new way among this crowd --

(CROSSTALK)

WHITFIELD: Well, how is that beneficial to anybody?

HENICAN: Yes, I don't think it is. I think it may be good politics on the right. I mean, and the base likes it and the Tea Party folks will be cheering. And you saw them at the Values Summit out in Iowa yesterday with Bobby Jindal. I mean, they think it's terrific because they don't want to achieve anything. They don't like the idea of deals. Compromise is a dirty word to those guys.

MORGENSTERN: Well, because compromises have led to incremental ballooning of government. Every compromise is now viewed by the folks on the right as just a tiny liberal victory instead of a big liberal victory. But, look, there's still a Democratic president with enough votes to sustain a veto. So the expectations have to be brought back down to earth here, you know. I mean, there isn't a seismic shift in the entire government. It's just, you know, in the person who is administering the House.

WHITFIELD: All right, Ellis Henican and Brian Morgenstern, we'll leave it there. Thank you so much.

HENICAN: See you later.

WHITFIELD: All right. So much more straight ahead in the NEWSROOM, including our continuing live coverage of the Pope's trip to Philadelphia and it all starts right after this.

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