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Continuing Coverage of the Visit of Pope Francis to America; 5- 6p ET

Aired September 27, 2015 - 17:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[17:00:00] POPE FRANCIS, CATHOLIC CHURCH LEADER: Grant us, merciful God, that this, our offering, may find us with you and through you, a wellspring of blessing may be laid open before us. Through Christ our Lord.

CROWD: Amen.

(SPEAKING FOREIGN LANGUAGE)

POPE FRANCIS: (SPEAKING FOREIGN LANGUAGE)

(CHOIR SINGING)

POPE FRANCIS (through translator): Make holy these gifts we bring to you for consecration that they may they become the body and blood of your son, our Lord Jesus Christ, at whose command we celebrate these mysteries.

For on the night he was betrayed, he himself took bread and, giving you thanks, he said the blessing, broke the bread and gave it to his disciples saying --

POPE FRANCIS: (SPEAKING FOREIGN LANGUAGE)

(through translator): When supper was ended, he took the cup, again he gave you thanks and praise, gave the cup to his disciples and said --

POPE FRANCIS: (SPEAKING FOREIGN LANGUAGE)

(CHOIR SINGING)

[17:05:22] POPE FRANCIS (through translator): Father, calling to mind the death your son endured for our salvation, his glorious resurrection and ascension into heaven and ready to greet him when he comes again, we offer you in thanksgiving this holy and living sacrifice.

Look. We pray upon the oblation of your church and recognizing the sacrificial victim upon whose death you will to reconcile us to yourself, grant that we who are nourished by the body and blood of your son and filled with his holy spirit may become one body, one spirit in Christ.

May her make of us an eternal blessing, an eternal offering to you so we may obtain an inheritance of your elect, especially with the virgin Mary, mother of God, with your blessed apostles and glorious martyrs and with all the saints on whose constant intercession in your presence we rely for unfailing help.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translator): May this sacrifice of our reconciliation we pray, o Lord, advance the peace and salvation of all the world, be pleased to confirm in faith and charity your pilgrim church on earth, with your servant Francis, our Pope, and Charles our bishop, the order of bishops, all the clergy and the entire people you make our own.

Listen graciously to the prayers of this family whom you have summoned before you. In your compassion, o merciful father, gather to yourself all of your children scattered throughout the earth. To our departed brothers and sisters and to all who were pleasing to you at their passing from this life, give kind admittance to your kingdom. There we hope to enjoy forever the fullness of your glory through Christ our Lord, through whom you bestow on the world all that is good.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (SPEAKING FOREIGN LANGUAGE)

(CHOIR SINGING)

POPE FRANCIS: (SPEAKING FOREIGN LANGUAGE)

(CHOIR SINGING)

[17:10:56] POPE FRANCIS: Deliver us Lord, we pray, from every evil. Graciously grant peace in our days. That by our mercy we may always be free from sin and safe from the distress as we await the blessed hope and the coming of our savior, Jesus Christ.

(CHOIR SINGING)

POPE FRANCIS: Lord Jesus Christ, you said to your apostles, peace I leave you, my peace I give you. Look not on our sins but on the faith of your church and graciously grant us peace and unity in accordance with your will where you live and reign forever and ever.

CROWD: Amen.

POPE FRANCIS: The peace of the lord be with all always.

CROWD: And with your spirit.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Let us offer each other a sign of peace.

(CHOIR SINGING)

POPE FRANCIS: Behold the Lamb of God, behold him who takes away the sins of the world. Blessed are those called to the supper of the Lamb.

CROWD: Lord, I am not worthy that you should enter under my roof, but only say the word and my soul shall be healed.

(CHOIR SINGING)

[17:17:23] POPPY HARLOW, CNN HOST: Hi, everyone. We want to welcome our viewers here in the United States and around the world. I'm Poppy Harlow joining you with my friend Carol Costello. Good to be with you.

CAROL COSTELLO, CNN HOST: I'm so happy to be with you, too. And isn't beautiful? What a beautiful setting.

HARLOW: What a week.

COSTELLO: What is a week is right.

We are, of course, going to be live from Philadelphia with special coverage of the Pope's visit to America. And you know, the Pope is holding mass at the Philadelphia museum of art on Eakins Oval. And we're just about the end of the mass. And this is the time when Catholics receive communion, the body of Christ.

Father Rosica is with me and a special song is about to be played. Tell us about it.

FATHER THOMAS ROSICA, HOLY SEA PRESS OFFICE: We're about to hear the wonderful song "gift of the finest wheat" which was first played here in 1976 during the Eucharistic Congress. All of those who are listening will certainly tune in right away when you hear it. This was a song commissioned by Omar Westindorf for the Eucharistic Congress -- International Eucharist Congress here in Philadelphia.

It was very important because at that Eucharist Congress, a certain Polish bishop by the name of Bishop Carol Wojtyla (ph), Archbishop Carol Wojtyla (ph) was here. And, of course, two years later he was elected as Pope and would come back to Philadelphia to hear that song again during his historic visit in 1979. So the gift of the finest week was specifically chosen for this mass to commemorate those wonderful events in the 1970s.

It is a song that's known around the world. It will follow the song that's being sung now. It is over 350 Eucharist ministers walked down Benjamin Franklin parkway to bring the bread of life to a million people who were gathered here.

COSTELLO: Delia Gallagher, you were describing this before. You see all of these deacons and priests and seminarians walking with umbrellas. And there are about to give like there are tens of thousands of people in the crowd many of whom want to receive communion.

DELIA GALLAGHER, CNN VATICAN CORRESPONDENT: Well, it is one of the interesting things at papal masses that everybody can receive communion, no matter if you are ten people or 10 million people.

HARLOW: We know there are nearly a million people here right now.

GALLAGHER: Exactly. We have nearly a million now. So the people that you see going down, the Eucharist ministers with the umbrellas are giving out communion and will continue to give out communion until they finish completely, even if the mass finishes beforehand. Sometimes that happens, too.

COSTELLO: So awesome.

We are going to take a quick break. We will be back with much more from Philadelphia.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[17:23:00] COSTELLO: And welcome back. I'm Carol Costello along with Poppy Harlow. Of course, we're live in Philadelphia.

And this is the last official mass that the Pope will officiate in the city of Philadelphia before he makes his way to the airport to meet with Joe Biden and then he'll be off to Rome. And that will be his U.S. visit. Will be in the bag.

HARLOW: I mean, just to have lived through this, Carol, and then to have front row seat to history being here, you've actually been along the Pope's route the entire, the entire time. And what just a day today has been.

He began this morning with something many had anticipated and hoped he would do, meeting with victims of sex abuse who was in the church and their family members and going on to be the first Pope ever in history to visit a U.S. prison, then meeting with the bishops, speaking to them, and now this glorious, glorious mass.

To you first, Delia Gallagher, let's talk about perhaps really for many the most important moment of today, and perhaps his whole visit, that critical meeting with the victims of sex abuse and their families this morning.

GALLAGHER: That's right. He met with five adult victims, three women and two men. And what's interesting is the Vatican released the text of what the Pope said to the victims in private because, of course, it was a private meeting. They keep it private for the victims in particular, obviously. And it's quite interesting to hear what he said. That he was profoundly sorry, he said, for the crimes that had been committed by members of the clergy and for the times that abuse survivors may have tried to speak out but were not believed. And he said, the Holy Father hears you and believes you and deeply regrets that some bishops failed in their responsibilities to protect children. That part is important because what a lot of the survivor groups have called for is bishop accountability. That's where, let's say, we're at now --

HARLOW: Right.

GALLAGHER: -- in this difficult, difficult --

[17:25:04] COSTELLO: I will just say, I've interviewed a victim of church sex abuse. And she has hope that Pope Francis will change things. But until the church hands over all of the records that apply to church sex abuse and becomes totally transparent, they feel, although those are beautiful words, they are just words.

And actually I would like to ask Father Kesicki about this. Father Kesicki joins us now, too, from Washington. Is it is enough that Pope Francis said these words, as beautiful as they were, will it satisfy people?

FATHER TIMOTHY KESICKI, S.J., PRESIDENT, JESUIT CONFERENCE: You know, I think we have to link two things he said. Obviously, this was a very important meeting. We knew he would do it. It would never be on the public schedule because of the intimacy of such a meeting and the absolute respect for privacy. And he did address the bishops. He said a mass cathedral in this topic. And he's taken some criticism for being encouraging of the bishops.

When you look at both statements, this is clearly a Pope who has mercy and he's also encouraging his bishops to take this seriously. We know that in the Vatican he has established in a sense two commissions. He established a commission that brought in a lot of externs, lay people, professionals as well as a tribunal for really almost the prosecuting of bishops, maybe that's not the exact word, but really reviewing the misconduct of those who oversaw dioceses, religious orders, et cetera.

So you know, he had a very striking image when he said God weeps. He said God weeps he's saying that basically God is judging us. God is judging the church for this terrible sin, this crime, and it's clearly in the Pope's mind and it's our hope that his leadership and his vision is going to continue to bring hope, particularly for those survivors of such abuse.

COSTELLO: Well, I will say -- you talk about that Vatican commission on sex abuse. And I spoke to somebody who serves on that commission. Her name is Marie Collins. And the amazing about this woman serving is that she is a victim of clergy abuse. She was raped by a priest when she was 14 years old. She said she got a call from the Vatican to serve on this commission. She was stunned by the request. But she gladly served. She is still catholic, by the way, which I found astonishing, quite frankly. And she said things are moving forward but at a glacial pace. And she gets frustrated, too.

GALLAGHER: Well, you bring up a good point, Carol. And I think it's important to say that in terms of, you know, doing practically this sort of investigation and collecting the information which, by the way, has to happen on a local level, and the complication there is also a question of resources because the Vatican is one end of it. But all of these cases need to be collected on a local level. The Vatican has to send people out to collect information.

And on the question of bishop accountability in particular, it's even further complicated by the fact that it's not so obvious. You have to talk to lots of people. It's not a question of direct abuse, it is a question of what he knew and when he knew it. So it's very complex. Perhaps we can continue the discussion at another time.

COSTELLO: But I think we should center on what's going on right now because it's quite beautiful. HARLOW: It is a stunning moment. Capping off a stunning week in this

country for Pope Francis. I think what has struck me most is the stories that I have heard from people including, frankly, you, Carol, who have talked about how this man and his message and this moment in history have brought them back to the faith. That is a very hard thing to do, Father Rosica. It is -- yet this is a Pope that remind us I, too, am human. And that's why actually he asks everyone at the end of each prayer he says, to pray for him.

ROSICA: Something that Pope Francis has brought to the ministry since his election in 2013 has been a remarkable humanity, simplicity and authenticity. He's 76 years old at his election, 78 years old now. He know he doesn't have a lot of time before him. But the bonding with human beings, the bonding with humanity has been so clear, if anybody in America has any question about him, being from South America, not speaking our language fluently, not understanding from where he is coming, this week has completely taken that away.

The scenes from last Sunday, last Monday in his arrival, up until today have revealed somebody who is unafraid, somebody who loves people, somebody who touches, somebody who is putting into practice everything that the gospel is saying, feeding the hungry, clothing the naked, visiting prisoners, being with those who are diminished or vulnerable and he's opening wide the doors and saying there is a place for you. No one is beyond God's mercy. No one is outside of the circle of God's love.

[17:30:13] COSTELLO: What I found fascinating, too, was when you asked people what the differences are between Pope Francis and Pope John Paul and Pope Benedict, they see distinct differences, at least the people who have gathered to the Pope's visit to the United States. In fact, I ask the vicar of (INAUDIBLE) to tell me the difference between the Popes.

So it is very interesting, right? So he said, Pope Benedict was deeply intellectual and an academic. He said Pope John Paul was a global, you know, he was a powerful figure on the global stage. He was a statesman. He is a saint. And Pope Francis, he said, you know, he's not as educated, but you know, he has different experiences. He's been out there among the poor. He touches people in clearly a different way. And I just thought that was interesting the contrast.

GALLAGHER: Well, one thing I've noticed, we celebrate Pope Francis and rightly so, but sometimes poor Pope Benedict is caught in the middle between John Paul II and Pope Francis. And frankly, two of the things which we've been talking about, such as the environment, Pope Benedict was the first one to make sure that the cardinal footprint of the Vatican was at zero, to install solar panels at the Vatican. When we talk about the issue of clerical sex abuse, it was Pope Benedict who was the first to have to read through all those abuses. And when he was first elected, put into punishment some very important priests that had abused children. So sometimes I think we don't get enough credit to poor Pope Benedict.

COSTELLO: No. You're right. Because if you read Pope Francis encyclical, which I have, a lot in it is directly from Pope Benedict. GALLAGHER: And not only Pope Francis but a lot of priests and bishops

in the Catholic Church still look to Pope Benedict as their kind of intellectual reference for a lot of things.

COSTELLO: He just didn't have the personality that Pope Francis did.

HARLOW: Well, also the moment we saw when we were broadcasting live last night and many of you probably saw what he did when he spoke to the, you know, all of the families here about family, he went completely off script.

And for many of the commentators and the guests we had on, Father Rosica you were one of them, they said that that was the moment that perhaps more often he should go off script and be human. And you just saw him light up. He was absolutely animated. And perhaps that's a skill that he has that his predecessors didn't.

COSTELLO: I love the joke he told this morning, right? Talking about the sons who stay at home too long. And mother came up and asked him, my son is 30, 34, he's still at home. What am I to do? And the Pope said stop ironing his shirts. Let him leave.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: -- silence during this period after Holy Communion. So to praise God in your hearts and pray to him.

(MOMENT OF SILENCE)

POPE FRANCIS: Let us pray. Bless us in mind and body. Through suffering we unite. Whenever we proclaim his death. (SPEAKING FOREIGN LANGUAGE)

[17:35:08] UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Your holiness, your eminences, Archbishop Palia, my dear brother bishops and all the many thousands of friends who fill the parkway, this has been a week of fellowship and blessing and the papal visit dedicated to the beauty of the family. None of us will ever forget these days for the rest of our lives. There aren't enough words to thank all of you for being here, to share in God's love and to give God the glory for the success of the world meeting of families. But I need to try.

Philadelphia has a very big heart and is full today with gratitude, with confidence in each other as children of a loving God and with hope that today will begin a new spirit in our city and in our church. We owe a huge debt to Mayor Nutter, Governor Wolf, former governor Corbett, Archbishop Palia and his staff and all the generous city, state and federal workers who helped us make this event even possible.

A special thanks to all of the wonderful donors, sponsors, world meeting co-chairs, staff and volunteers who worked tirelessly to bring this celebration to fruition.

(APPLAUSE)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Thanks to all my brother priests and bishops, religious and all who traveled and sacrificed to be here. And finally, thanks to all of you here tonight. A million and more families who light this parkway and the world with your love.

Most of all, Holy Father, thank you for leading us in worship and in the life of the church. Thank you for bringing your spirit to our city and to the world. May God bless all of us and may God lift you up in your ministry for many years to come. Thank you, Holy Father.

(APPLAUSE)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Most Holy Father, thank you for being here with us to conclude the world meeting of families in Philadelphia. For all of us, those here present and all those around the world who have followed us, this beautiful boulevard Benjamin Franklin has become like the road to (INAUDIBLE).

Last evening (INAUDIBLE) and as you spoke to us of the beauty of family, the hearts of our families very truly burning within us. And now that we have broken the bread of life at the mass, just like the disciples, we recognize that Jesus is truly present among us. He has opened our heart, our eyes and pushed us to go to the world to light the fire of love in all the families of the world.

Here in Philadelphia, families from more than 100 countries have shared six days that have taught them that truly the church is a family people, an extraordinary people of family families, really it is beautiful, terrific people. That must be --

(APPLAUSE)

[17:40:02] UNIDENTIFIED MALE: These people that must be a family love for a more family world. God's dream from the first moment of creation has been to make all peoples into one family. A family reach in diversity like the coat of many colors that Jacob gave to his son Joseph, a garment made beautiful by the richness of its different thorns (ph) and yours.

From our meeting here in Philadelphia, we have learned that we must make our own this dream of God. Yes, God gives us and our families the gift of participating in his dream. After the Synod of bishops in October, the jubilee will begin. And next December 27th during the feast of holy family Holy Synod, the jubilee of families will be celebrated in all the diocese of the world. The doors of all the cathedrals and shrines will be open, but at the same time we must open the doors of our arms and our hearts, open the doors to welcome our brothers and sisters who are in need of love and mercy.

This is the prophecy that all families are called upon to fulfill and in this way each family will become a century of mercy. From Philadelphia, the city of brotherly love and sisterly affection, the city that is home to the liberty bell, the family bell is pealing out calling families to welcome the stranger, comfort the afflicted and the accompany our sisters and brothers in their difficulties and their joys. Holy Father, all families here present pledge now to answer that call.

(APPLAUSE)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And now --

HARLOW: All right. We are continuing to watch this final mass of the Pope's visit to the United States here. We are going to take a quick break. We will be right back with the final blessing.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[17:44:34] HARLOW: Welcome back to our continuing coverage of this final mass of Pope Francis's visit, historic visit here to the United States. You're hearing words from a Vatican official ahead of the final blessing from Pope Francis. Let's listen in.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The Synod of bishops will begin. We will pray for you. And all the fathers share with them the joy and the dream of these people of families. Yes, in these days we are witnessed a new spring for family, a new misery fervor that inspire families to bring the gospel of love to our world.

As a sign of the five families from five continents will each receive from you 100,000 copies of the Gospel of Luke. They today will distribute to the poor of their own cities in the (INAUDIBLE) of their cities. (INAUDIBLE) for the Americas, Kishasa for Africa, Marcel for Europe, Anoy for Asia, and Sydney for Australia.

In addition, one more family has come here to Philadelphia from Damascus in Syria. This family will go back home next week, but they won't go back empty handed. They, too, will have the gospel to give to families who live in fear of bombardment, but we also want to give them what we have collected at this mass from the thousands of generous families you see in front of you. That money will be used to buy heating oil for their houses during the coming five months of winter cold. This gift is --

[17:47:00] COSTELLO: And welcome back. We're live in Philadelphia. This is the final mass that Pope Francis has officiated that, of course, is not Pope Francis, but he's president of the world family festival which I always like, Delia, because it's such a joyful celebration.

GALLAGHER: That's right.

COSTELLO: And he's just announced the next city this event will take place in. So, go for it, Delia.

GALLAGHER: This world meeting of families will take place in Dublin in three years time. This will be the ninth world meeting of families. This whole event was started by John Paul II. The first one was held in 1994 in Rome. So every year then they choose where the next place will be. So it will be Dublin, Ireland, in three years time.

COSTELLO: OK. So then Pope Francis is going to hand out some bibles to special families.

GALLAGHER: Five families have been chosen each from one continent, so each of the continents, Africa, America, Asia, Australia and Europe. And they are being given the Gospel of Luke. Luke's gospel by Pope Francis.

ROSICA: And the reason for that is Luke is often called the gospel of mercy. And these bibles are presented really on the eve of the year of mercy, the jubilee year of mercy which will begin on December 8th. As we were watching there we saw the first family from Syria who was brought over for this special event and returns now in much fear and trembling to a land where so many Christians are being persecuted or have had to flee. And the Pope said to them to bring the gospel of joy into this situation.

The gospel is really the playbook for families. It's the rule book. It's the golden rule. It's the manual. It's the charter for daily living. Colorful costumes and the dresses here of the people.

COSTELLO: I was out and about in the crowd yesterday, and everyone was so joyous and everyone had their families with them. It was their extended families. It was just a beautiful sight. And it was anent full of love and hope and all they wanted was one glimpse of Pope Francis, and that would make their year, life. It was amazing.

GALLAGHER: Yes. And the cheers really go up when he passes by. You see that. Because it's so different to see him in person.

HARLOW: You do. And I do want to bring in Father Timothy Kesicki with us from Washington, D.C.

I think now as we approach just a few hours from the Pope's departure back to Rome, back to the Vatican, this city of Philadelphia sort of gets back to itself, back to normal and people go back to their day- to-day lives. You know, today at the prison, Father, the Pope said Jesus teaches us to see the world through his eye, eyes which are not scandalized by the dust picked up along the way but want to cleanse, heal and restore. When we look at our society in this moment in history, how do we all take that forward as this pontiff leaves?

[17:50:03] KESICKI: Well, I like that there's some beautiful parallels between some of his very majestic addresses and his own personal witness. So when he went to the prison, I couldn't help but think of what he said to the United States Congress. Obviously, he was talking about the death penalty, but after that he talked about what he likes to refer to as restorative justice, that we -- visiting the prisoner is a corporal work of mercy, but part of that work of mercy he says to not lock someone up forever and throw away the key, that we have to believe that conversion can happen even in a hardened criminal.

And so, he made that very profound statement before Congress. And then he went and encountered, touched the hand, the faces, the hearts of those who were in prison and invited us to do the same. So I am really consoled by these wonderful parallels between the very lofty speeches he gave and then the personal testament that he shows us.

COSTELLO: Well, poppy, you went and talked with some of those prisoners before the Pope's visit. What did they tell you?

HARLOW: I did. And then I saw some of them today as we carried live the Pope being at the prison. You know, it was, look, this is a maximum security facility here in Philadelphia. Some of these prisoners are incarcerated because they're convicted of the most heinous crimes of murder, of rape, of really truly unforgivable things. This Pope, though, says there is redemption. And for a lot of people, you know, and my question to the father there was what about the victims? And in a way he said you have to restore faith in all. Let's listen in.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Bow down for the blessing.

POPE FRANCIS: May God bless you with every blessing, make you holy and pure in his sight, pour his benevolence upon you, the righteous of glory and teach you with the works of (INAUDIBLE). May this (INAUDIBLE) and ever imbue you with eternal charity. Through Christ our Lord.

CROWD: Amen.

POPE FRANCIS: May the blessing of almighty God, the father, and the son, and the holy spirit come down on you and remain with you forever.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Go forth, the mass has ended.

CROWD: Thanks be to God.

POPE FRANCIS: God bless you, you all. Thank you very much for your participation and for your love for the family, and I ask you pray for me. Don't forget.

(APPLAUSE)

HARLOW: And there you have it. The procession after the final mass has ended on the Pope's historic trip here in the United States. Absolutely glorious music all week long, and we get treated to more of it right now as we watch this.

I just want to note, of course, he said at the end, perhaps the last words we'll hear unless we hear from him with vice president Biden at the apartment, he said, pray for me, and he smiled. There's a back story to that, Delia Gallagher. He was asked on a flight in 2013, Father, why do you always say pray for us. Why should we pray for you? And he says, honestly, I truly feel I have so many limitations, so many problems also being a sinner, you know it, and I must ask for this. Do other Popes do that?

ROSICA: Each Pope has done that, but this particular Pope has done it so frequently and he's sincere. A lot of people ask me over the past week, what keeps him going? He's an old man, you know. This is remarkable. What drugs is he taking? And I said it's the prayers of the people of God around the world that sustain him and sustain each one of us in the Lord's service.

But he's been so public about it, he believes in the power of prayer. He invited bishops this morning to make sure that prayer was one of the pillars of their ministry. And he's done that continuously. He's now become known in many circles as the pray for me Pope. COSTELLO: You know what else I noticed --

ROSICA: And you know what? He's also extremely sensitive when he's in audiences that aren't all catholic. He said if you can't pray for me, send me good wishes or good vibes. He's really wonderful.

[17:55:06] COSTELLO: And I can to tell you in being out in the crowd, that people appreciate when he says that. It touches them as well. The other thing that energizes the Pope, though, you can see him in the Popemobile because he made two passes around before the mass began. And he just seems to draw energy from the crowds cheering him on. Every time, you know, he sees a baby, he lights up. He is really truly amazing.

GALLAGHER: He's an extrovert. And as I said, he gets energy from the crowd. But I do think it's important to say that I think his personal biography was significant in this whole idea of I, too, am a sinner and I think that's very deeply felt in this Pope. And if you read something of how he was in Argentina and the difficulties that he had as bishop, an archbishop and head of the Jesuits at a very young age. And he said, I was very authoritarian. I was 36. I was too young. There were many mistakes that I made at that time. And somehow, I think that his kind of openness now and his constantly saying perhaps even when we're in press conference, he'll say, I don't know, I think, maybe I'm wrong which is not usual for a Pope. And I think that it is related to his personal experiences.

COSTELLO: Along those lines in Washington, D.C., at the catholic charities event, I was there when he went among the homeless, right? So before the event began, the head of catholic charities stood and said, you have to be very respectful of the Pope, call him your holiness, if you want to kiss his ring, that's OK. And then, just a thought very respectfully and politely.

But when the Pope came through the doors, he would have none of it. And he just -- he acted as a human, right? He's very down to earth. He just launched himself into the crowd. People were taking selfies with him. He was shaking their hands. He gave some high fives. It was truly an amazing sight.

I want to bring in Father Kesicki because -- and I heard what Delia said, but this is a special quality not many people have. He's able to be human yet divine.

KESICKI: He's pretty close to the divine.

COSTELLO: Go ahead, Father, Kesicki, I don't think your microphone was on.

KESICKI: OK. Well, I think he is -- Jesus is divine but Pope Francis is pretty close to the divine. You know, he was a young man when he entered the Jesuit in 1958 in Argentina. And he made the spiritual exercises of St. Ignatius. And there, he came to realize first that he was a sinner called to be a companion of Christ. So he was in his 20s when he made that retreat. It was refreshing when he was Pope he granted that interview which was

carried by "American magazine." And he said publicly as a Pope I'm a sinner yet called to be a companion of Christ. He never forget those very formative words he prayed as a young Jesuit in Argentina in the late '50s. And he has really inspired all of us to do the same.

COSTELLO: You know, and it really makes a difference to people because in talking to the homeless that he interacted with, they said just his touch gave them dignity. And that's really the Pope's mission, right, to give people who perhaps think they have no dignity, dignity, to give them their humanity back so they can raise themselves up and prosper.

KESICKI: Yes.

COSTELLO: Go ahead, father.

KESICKI: He believes that all children of God, that we all have that dignity that comes from God. And that's why he does go to those who are marginalized and those at the peripheries. Really if we live this life, it will build up our other dignity, our own self-esteem. Very powerful how he does that.

HARLOW: Father Rosica, I wonder if you could talk to us about the moment, right. And my colleague, Chris Cuomo, says that there is the man, the message and the moment. But why it is that Pope Francis was the one chosen to be this voice, this symbol, carry the message at this moment in time when, as Carol just brought up, him meeting with the homeless, going to those of the periphery, and the income gap keeps growing. There's a real problem with inequality in this country and around the world. Is this the man that was needed for this moment in history?

ROSICA: Thanks for the question. It's a very good question. Let me answer it by a little bit of explanation of that moment in the Sistine chapel.

HARLOW: Please.

ROSICA: Everybody looks at, you know, the use of language of who was the kingmaker among the cardinals? Who was the one that rallied the votes? Well, the most important elector in the Sistine chapel usually doesn't appear on CNN and the newspapers. It's the Holy Spirit that brought them together. First of all, we would not have of Pope Francis today unless we had Pope Benedict who opened the door to such a phenomenon and such a gift. Secondly, the resignation of Benedict really broke new history and started a whole new trajectory for the church.