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Pope Francis Visiting Prison; Awaiting Pope's Huge Outdoor Mass in Philadelphia; The Pope's Message in the U.S.; The Pope in Pictures. Aired 11a-12p ET

Aired September 27, 2015 - 11:00   ET


[11:00:00] JAKE TAPPER, CNN ANCHOR: I was hungry, you gave me something to eat. I was thirsty, you gave me something to drink. I was a stranger, you invited me in.

I needed clothes, and you clothe. I was sick and you look after me. I was in prison and you came to visit me.

Delia, obviously, this is a pope who practices what he preaches. It is interesting though because there are victims rights groups who are not always enamored when people like President Obama or a pope visits prisoners, visits those who have done wrong.

DELIA GALLAGHER, CNN VATICAN CORRESPONDENT: Well, the question is a political question. You know, they spoke to about justice and accountability and, of course, in a political sense that is important. Justice is important and I don't think that the pope would try to suggest otherwise.

But, of course, the pope's point is that there is hope. I thought it was very nice that he said in this talk, you know, when Jesus met people, he didn't ask what have you done? Where have you been? He's not interested in what happened before.

So, this idea you can renew and leave the past behind, and I think it's interesting now that we see him meeting with the families of the prisoners, because, of course, he recognized also that the pain is not just for the prisoners themselves. In fact, it might even be harder for those people who are outside.

TAPPER: And, Van Jones, for those at home who may be skeptical of anybody who shows mercy and attention to those who have done wrong, convicted murderers, accused murderers, rapists, thieves, et cetera, why is prison reform an issue that you care about?

VAN JONES, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Well, I care about it because, first of all, 95 percent of the people who are in prison will at some point come back home. And there is no way to throw people -- people say, lock them up and throw away the key. That very rarely happens. People do come home.

Also, people make mistakes. We all, in our faith, I'm a Protestant, but in most faiths, you know, all have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God. We haven't all done the worst things, but we have -- none of us have only done the best things.

And so, you have to have a society where second chances are possible. You don't want to waste genius, you don't want to draw people away.

I think this pope is creating something I've never seen in my lifetime -- I've read about it -- this idea of a spiritual revival or religious revival. You read those words in our history. You know, what they are talking. I don't know what that means.

I am seeing people who are not religious who are being moved and opened up in a different way because of the example that this man is setting. Even some of the multi-faith organizations, what we call multi-religious alliances like PICO, for instance, they have now embraced this idea of let's go back to the prisons, 300 congregations because of PICO following the pope. These are not all Catholics, following the pope. Let's go back to the prisons, let's give back to what the gospel says about not throwing anyone away, embracing everyone, giving everyone a second chance.

If there's anything about religious faith that is good, it is this idea that every soul matters. Even if you stole something, you're more than just a thief. Every soul matters. And that everybody can be redeemed. And so, I think this, not because of his words, but his deeds, he's reaching even beyond the he's touching ordinary people. It's an extraordinary thing to watch.

TAPPER: If you're just joining us, the pope is visiting inmates right now inside the Curran-Fromhold correction facility, the largest prison in the Philadelphia prison system. We're talking about this, with the -- Delia, you want to say something. Go ahead.

GALLAGHER: Well, I wanted to say a few things, that the pope said to them, because I thought it was a really beautiful speech in particular. He said, you know, in life, we all get our feet dirty. That was his kind of metaphor for saying, you know, in Jesus' time, the reason they cleanse feet were people they walked around with sandals and when you went into somebody's house, they had to clean your feet. That was back to the washing of the feet, which we remember, Pope Francis did to prisoners on a Holy Thursday.

So, he kind of gave this metaphor of feeling dirty and yet being cleansed. And then he said confinement is not the same as exclusion. So, you can have confinement, you can pay for your crime and that is just and that is right. But you don't need to be excluded from society.

TAPPER: And, Van, we know that humility is very important to this pope. And he started his remarks to these prisoners referencing the gospel scene where Jesus washes the feet.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The Holy Father bless the rosaries and he's going to impart that blessing now on religious items.

[11:05:13] POPE FRANCIS (through translator): The chair is beautiful. Thank you very much for the hard work. Thank you.


TAPPER: The pope thanking the inmates at the facility for the chair that they made him.

Delia, explain to us the significance of the blessing of the rosaries that we just heard.

GALLAGHER: Well, when you go to meet the pope you can bring items, personal items like a rosary or picture or any kind of personal item you would like to have blessed. They gave that opportunity to the prisoners so you have a kind of memento of the visit.

The pope, in addition, usually has rosaries that he gives out to people that he meets. I don't know if he's done that in this case. But that is another thing. The rosary being one of the major things that Catholics use to pray.

TAPPER: And, Van, we were just talking before the pope started speaking about the humility of the pope and his reference to the gospel of Jesus washes the feet of his disciples at the last supper.

JONES: I think that's something we can take from his example. Not only has he washed the feet of prisoners, he washed the feet of a Muslim woman behind bars, which really showed a completely different side to a world that sometimes is torn apart by these religious differences. I think it's just extraordinary.

One of my close friends is a man named Shaka Senghor. He's someone who was convicted of a violent crime that he, in fact, did commit. He served 19 years in prison. He spent seven years in solitary confinement and he came back home to Detroit and he has been one of the most extraordinary human beings. He's a moral leader. He's somebody who has been able to, despite the things he's done he regrets become an incredible asset.

I think you have a pope, and I think you have a president, and increasingly, you're having people on both parties who realize people do very, very bad things, and then the sun comes up the next day and if they've learned a lesson, let them come back home. Let them have a second chance. Let's not assume that just because somebody went to prison they are only bad, and some of us who are not in prison are only good.

TAPPER: And just to remind our viewers, this is a tough facility he's visiting. This is not a white collar facility. This is -- it's named the Curran-Fromhold Correction facility because it is named after Warden Patrick Curran and Deputy Warden Robert Fromhold who were correctional officers murdered at Holmesburg Prison in 1973. There's been lawsuits against this prison for overcrowding and conditions harsh and degrading.

This is not walk in the park. This is not a nice drive through Central Park as the pope did yesterday. This is a tough place to go.

GALLAGHER: And the really lovely thing about that is first thing he said when he came in, he said, I am your brother. I come as your brother. That's something Pope John XXIII in the 1960s said when we went into a room in a prison similar to this in the 1960s. (INAUDIBLE) I speak to you as a brother.

i don't think people realize when you talk about a country where you have 2.3, 2.4 million individual who is are locked up, that's tens of millions of family members. We do live in a country that prison population has gone up by ten times. When this kind of example is set, I think it says everybody counts. Everybody matters. Also you mentioned how tough it is in some of these places. We will never know how many people because he went there and because he touched their handmade a decision today that will make them better fathers, make them better brother, better sons. There will be neighborhoods that will be blessed by this that we never know about.

He puts himself on that level.

JONES: And I don't think people realize, when you talk about a country, where, you have 2.3 million, 2.4 million individuals who are locked up. You know, that tens of millions of family members.

So, you know, we do live in a country that our prison population has gone up, by 10 times. So, when this kind of example is set, I think it says, listen, everybody counts, everybody matters.

Also, you mentioned how tough it is in some of these places. We will never know how many people because he went there and because he touched their hand made a decision today that will make them better fathers, make them better brothers, better sons. There will be neighborhoods that will be blest by this, that we never know about.

TAPPER: We're looking at an image of the chair that the inmates at this facility made for the pope. It's quite a beautiful chair.

One of the things I'm reminded of as I watch the pope talking to the inmates is just the theme throughout this week of individuals who feel worthless, who feel ignored by society, who feel discarded by society whether it's the homeless individuals that he met with in Washington, D.C., or some of the perhaps immigrants and their children in East Harlem.

We heard from a girl yesterday who felt disconnected from all the pomp and circumstance of Independence Hall and the Liberty Bell. Seem to be expressing a feeling of the pope talking to her and the importance of her Latino culture that she was reconsidering. I can't imagine the worthlessness that many of these inmates feel both because of whatever issues they had to cause them to be there and also once they're there, and he is saying you matter. You're a person. You're a soul. You matter.

GALLAGHER: Well, of course, the main theme of this trip is the family. So, in addition to recognizing the suffering of the family of inmates, the pope's point is, we have strong families, then we have strong relationships, and then we have people who grow up in a society which is healthier and happier and more stable, and perhaps we can reduce the number of people that commit crimes also in that way. TAPPER: Yes, beautiful words. Obviously, his family message is

multifold. He opposes same-sex marriage. He wants the church's teachings and marriage to be the same.

But he's also talking about the dignity of the worker. He's also talking about climate change. He's also talking about the importance of marriage.

JONES: And I respect that, too, because it's so funny to try to hear the modern world in our debate about socialism and capitalism. Socialism, capitalism is only 200 years old. Catholicism is 2,000 years old. He's not involved in this stuff. He's trying to bring forward some wisdom.

It's like if the kids are fighting and grandma comes down and says, share, she's not a communist. She's wise. She's saying let's treat each other well.

It's so funny to hear us try to put think through the lens, take care of the earth, take care of each other. These are just good wisdom traditions. And the fact that we can only think about that from the point of view, what does that mean for the presidential election or some bill, you know, it shows we needed this.

Look, I'm a Protestant, I'm not a Catholic. But we needed this. We needed somebody to come who could set a good example and set good tone, who can call us back to our best self. And the best think about his leadership, he's not calling anybody out. He's not saying you're wrong. He's calling us up. Now, see, that's something that -- that goes across any kind of religious barriers. I'm a Protestant and a fan.

TAPPER: We're going to take a very quick break. When we come back more live coverage of Pope Francis and his visit to the United States and to Philadelphia, right after this.


[11:16:38] TAPPER: Welcome back to CNN's live coverage of Pope Francis and his trip to the United States. His historic visit to Philadelphia.

Right now, you're looking at images of crowds who have gathered at the Benjamin Franklin Parkway here in Philadelphia for the mass that will be celebrated at 4:00 p.m. So, we're still 4:45 away from that. But people have been gathering since the crack of dawn.

Here are images of the pope from just a few minutes ago when he was at Curran-Fromhold correctional facility, speaking to inmates, taking a lesson from the Book of Matthew, visiting prisoners, visiting their family members, talking about rehabilitation, keeping with his theme of nothing being thrown away in this life whether it's a person or a life or a planet, all of it has value. Very moving visit.

I'm joined by Father Beck and Father Martin. And while we look at these images, Father Beck, let me ask you -- it's kind of interesting that today, he met with both victims and in some cases victimizers. I mean, he met with survivors of clergy sexual abuse before he went to this prison and some of those individuals are thieves, accused murderers, accused rapists.

FATHER EDWARD BECK, CNN RELIGION COMMEENTATOR: Not only that, but victims right there, Curran-Fromhold is named after a former warren and deputy warren, Curran and From, who were stabbed by inmate in 1973.

TAPPER: Right.

BECK: And their families were invited to be here.

So, I think that that says is, it's not just about the prisoners. It's about the victims, but everybody is called to reconciliation and healing, prisoners and victims. And the fact they are invited there moved me because this pope is again embracing everyone.

TAPPER: It's remarkable, Father Martin. But there might be some people, as it is with his theology as well that have a tough time understanding all of it in its totality. Sure, you meet with victims of clergy sexual abuse. That makes sense, they have been, you know, victimized, they are people who need support. Why meet with people who have caused pain? Why meet with people who are rapists and murderers and thieves?

REV. JAMES MARTIN, EDITOR-AT-LARGE, AMERICA MAGAZINE: Well, I mean, this is what Jesus does. And this is what Jesus asked us to do, it's a reminder that Father Beck was saying, that there are no people who are throw away. Everyone has value, even people who have done terrible things.

I think he also came to them, he said I come to you as your brother, someone in need of cleansing. He has said over and over again and it is Christian theology. We are all sinners, we are all in need of repentance.

And so, you know, once again, he's teaching not only with his words and speeches but with his deeds, showing up to people who are often forgotten and marginalized and demonized, frankly, in our society, saying everyone has value.

TAPPER: Yes, Father Beck that idea of empowering those who feel as though society is telling them they are worthless, whether it's new immigrants and perhaps illegal immigrants in this country, undocumented immigrants. Whether it's the homeless with whom he met in Washington, D.C.

[11:20:00] Those -- the immigrants some of whom travel to the United States without their parents in that school in East Harlem and here we see prisoners. It is a message of you matter. You matter to me.

BECK: Yes, and he's done it at every stop of the way. I was so interested when he was speaking to Congress, he said we must

respect human life at all stages development. Everybody was waiting for the abortion reference. What he went onto say was, we should abolish capital punishment throughout the world. That was his reference point.

And here, he's visiting with prisoners saying every life matter. Capital punishment should not exist anywhere. And here, he's showing up to say there's reconciliation and hope for everyone.

TAPPER: Of course, that's not a new position for the church, opposition for capital punishment. It's been around for quite some time. I remember some of the fights in the '80s about that. But this is a new era where capital punishment is being re-examined not only by liberal Democrats and conservative Republicans, not only because of whether or not it is just in itself because of how the punishment is meted out.

MARTIN: Well, that's right. The church is getting narrower and narrower, to the point where Pope Francis has called for global abolition of the death penalty. The Catholic Church's position has been that the only reason that that should happen is if we cannot contain the person, protect them from other people.

As the pope points out we can always keep people incarcerated. There's no longer a sort of a danger of letting people out. So, therefore, there's no need for the death penalty. It's a reminder that every life is valuable. The pope shows us that today.

TAPPER: Father Beck, the pope, when he talked about valuing and protecting life at all stages, obviously, the emphasis of his speech in his address to the joint meeting of congress was the death penalty. Obviously, it was also an illusion to abortion. There are a lot of Catholics, more conservative Catholics, who don't care for the pope deemphasizing the so-called culture wars, the so-called wars over abortion and same-sex marriage. And they wish that the pope, obviously, he's not changed his position opposing abortion but they wish that he would talk more about it.

BECK: I think his perspective is I'm not changing the rules or doctrine. They are still there. But we've gotten a little misguided. We emphasized sin.

Who's excluded? Who's outside of the fold? What about talking about love, mercy and compassion? Still saying, yes, that they are sinners.

But, you know, it's interesting. There's a theology that used to say, get your act together, get healed, get converted and then come be part of us.

But this pope is saying is, maybe the conversion happens by inclusion. So, if you can receive the Eucharist, maybe that transform you. If you're excluded from it, how does the medicine ever get to you? It's a whole other kind of take on the theology that says it happened somewhere else. It happens inside, not outside.

TAPPER: You're wanted now. Not you're wanted after you do A, B, C, D.

Father Martin, what was -- explained to our viewers, the pope announced permission, encouragement for parishes to, for want of a better term and I know you'll correct if I'm using the wrong language, forgive the sin of abortion.

MARTIN: Yes, it's a little complicated. Basically, in some dioceses, the permission to forgive the sin of abortion was reserved to the bishop. You know, in most dioceses in the United States, that was not a problem.

So, individual priests, when a woman came could forgive the woman you know, who had an abortion, or someone who had procured an abortion for the woman. In this year of mercy, the pope is saying, you no longer need permission to go to your bishop. Any priest can forgive the sin of abortion either from the woman or the man who procured it.

And, once again, you know, as Father Beck was saying, it is this kind of reaching out to people. He is also reaching out to people who feel excluded, who feel that they cannot be forgiven. For example, like the prisoners perhaps in the prison, you know, women, divorced, unmarried Catholics, anyone who felt excluded from the church, it is the movement of Jesus which is bringing people from the outside in, from the margins in. So, once again, it's the theme of his papacy, which is mercy, mercy and mercy.

TAPPER: What he suggested when it comes to divorce which is obviously against Catholic theology as well?

BECK: The problem becomes divorce and remarriage. So, the church if you're divorced doesn't recognize your divorce unless you get an annulment. You cannot remarry and receive communion. His perspective is, OK, but what about those people who have divorced and remarried? Should we continue to exclude them if they haven't gone through the annulment process yet?

Maybe we can invite them back. And they're in process. It's all a journey, it doesn't happen all at once. So, the synod coming up in October. This would be an issue on the table.

What do we do with those people who haven't gotten to the annulment yet, maybe they're in process, who aren't receiving communion because we tell them you can't.

[11:25:02] TAPPER: Father Martin, one of the things that I've heard when I heard criticism of this teaching in the church is that plenty of rich and powerful Catholics in the country have been able to get annulments pretty easily even if they were married for decades and have several children. It's the lay people going to mass every day who have not been able to do that.

MARTIN: Yes, I think the criticism is more of, refine it a little bit, that it's too expensive, rather than it's just simply favoring rich people because they're rich. In the sense, de facto, it favors rich people because the process was seen as expensive. What the pope has said, which I think is fantastic in this most recent

letter that Father Beck was talking about is he wants it to be free, as far as possible. He wants it to be free. He has streamlined it. He wants it be easier for people and once it is this sort of reaching out to people not only who are divorced and remarried, but also divorce and remarried and perhaps without means, without riches.

TAPPER: Once again, bringing the flock in, bringing people into the flock.

Stay with us. There are thousands and thousands of people gathering for the pope's next event which will be his out door mass here in Philadelphia at 4:00 p.m. Eastern.

When we come back, we're going to head to the streets. We're going to meet some of the folk who are already lined up and have been for hours and hours.

Stay with us.



TAPPER: Welcome back. We're live here in Philadelphia. You can see the teeming masses huddling to see the pope here, hear from him. Pope Francis just finished a meeting with prisoners in a Philadelphia correctional facility. This followed a powerful speech that he delivered to bishops and seminarians, in which the pope talked about meeting with abuse victims, sex abuse victims, not just clergy but teachers and family members as well at the abusers.

The pope said these secrets cannot be maintained. He vowed accountability.

CNN's Miguel Marquez and CNN's Rosa Flores have been watching the pope's movements today from the crowd, where the pope will lead his final mass here in the United States on this historic visit.

Miguel, how did the audience react as the pope delivered his various messages today?

MIGUEL MARQUEZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Look, when he came right off the top of that mass and he said God weeps for the sexual abuse of children and that those that are responsible will be held accountable, you could hear the collective jaws dropping.

A few people applauded. They were listening on big screen monitors out here. But I think there was a recognition, particularly in Philadelphia, where they've had not only the issue of sexual abuse but the cover-up of it as well, it is welcome news here. I think hearing it right off the top like that was a bit of a shock.

We're in Logan Square in central Philadelphia. People from all over the place -- you guys ready for the pope?


MARQUEZ: And sources tell me that Resurrection School from Lansing, Michigan, loves the pope. I'm not sure if that's true or not. But we're going to check that out and see if we can confirm that.

I'm here with a young man, who is one of many, many Jesuit students who are out here today, one of 42 schools -- Francesco D'Angelo (ph), from New York, from Xavier.

What is it like?

He's a Jesuit; you're a Jesuit.

What is it like to be here for this guy?

FRANCESCO D'ANGELO (PH), XAVIER UNIVERSITY: It's phenomenal. I think it's great that we actually have a Jesuit pope now and someone who is actually leading the way to show what the Catholic Church really stands for.

MARQUEZ: You are a guy who's grown up in a church that's been roiled by controversy.

How do you feel about this church today?

D'ANGELO (PH): I think this pope has a new message showing that we're over the fact that the scandals -- it happened and it's over with and it's time to move on.

MARQUEZ: You are 17.

Would you consider a vocation in the church?

D'ANGELO (PH): Perhaps. I still don't know yet. It's still a decision that I have to make later in my life. But I don't know.

MARQUEZ: And what is it about a 78-year-old pontiff that appeals to a 17-year old like yourself?

D'ANGELO (PH): I think it's a simple message of just love one another, the Golden Rule. That's so simple and pure.

MARQUEZ: His missionary zeal as well --


D'ANGELO (PH): Yes. I mean, he lived with the poor in Buenos Aires and that really made him, shaped him to be who he is today.

MARQUEZ: OK. Thank you very much. Good luck. Have a great time.

I've met so many Jesuits here. They've come from all over the country, all around the world to see this pope. Obviously he was a Jesuit as well so they are very excited to see him.

He's been out here twice now to see the pope go around and we expect here at Logan Square to see the pope go around once, perhaps even twice around this very square. So we're holding in -- Jake.

TAPPER: Miguel Marquez at Logan Circle, a historic area in Philadelphia. Thank you so much.

Let's go to Rosa Flores now, who is amidst the crowd.

Rosa, where are you and what are the people around you saying?

ROSA FLORES, CNN CORRESPONDENT: I'm at Benjamin Franklin Parkway. This is where you see masses of people. You see JumboTrons as far as the eye can see and thousands of people are expecting more.

There is just this Francis effect, this feeling of joy to celebrate mass, to celebrate life with Pope Francis.

I met Victor (ph) just now. And take a look at what Victor (ph) is carrying. He's carrying a Pope Francis plush toy.

I was asking if him if the plush toy could actually bless you or something.

But we're seeing a lot of signs like this one, (speaking Spanish,) "We love you," just a rush of feeling and emotion.

Usted -- you speak English too, right?



FLORES: A little bit. It sounds --


FLORES: -- broken -- your excitement about being here --


FLORES: -- to see Pope Francis.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes, I'm exciting to be here. My family, my friends. So we're hoping to see a little bit, few minutes we can see --


FLORES: The pope and perhaps get his blessing.

Now of course, this morning we learned that Pope Francis spoke to sexual abuse victims, that he vowed to hold those people accountable.

So I've been talking to the people in the crowd here about that to see what they are thinking and what their thoughts are.

And I spoke to you earlier.

And you were telling me, why is it important for you to hear this from Pope Francis?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Transparency and accountability, it will lead towards healing and forgiveness. And I think Pope Francis is sending the church in the right direction with that.

FLORES: So there you have it, Jake. And that's what resonates from this crowd. Like she was saying, they want accountability, transparency. It's important for people and because they're seeing that some people are actually coming back and believing in the church again -- Jake.

TAPPER: All right, Rosa Flores, of course we heard from a victim's rights advocate earlier, who said that Pope Francis still has a lot to do. The Vatican has a lot to do when it comes to continuing to be transparent, to clean up the remnants of that scandal.

We're going to take a very quick break. When we come back much, much more on Pope Francis and his historic visit to the United States. We're live in Philadelphia. Back after this.





TAPPER (voice-over): Welcome back. We're live in Philadelphia on the final day of Pope Francis's visit to the United States. There are huge crowds gathering here in Philadelphia for the pope's outdoor mass, which will be in about four and a half hours, 4:00 pm Eastern. It's the marquee event of his trip to Philadelphia; Pope Francis has already had quite an eventful day; a speech to bishops and seminarians this morning was perhaps the most political remarks we've heard from him since his visit to address a joint meeting of Congress earlier this week.

Take a listen.


POPE FRANCIS (through translator): Until recently we lived in a social context where the similarities between the civil institution of marriage and the Christian sacrament were considerable and shared. The two were interrelated and mutually supportive. This is no longer the case.

TAPPER (voice-over): A clear reference to same-sex marriage. Joining me now to talk about this all and much more, CNN political commentators Ana Navarro and Paul Begala.

You're looking at images right there of the pope walking through the seminary.

Ana, the pope talking about the family and clearly, in his view, marriage as defined by the government, which now includes same-sex couples, not being closely aligned with marriage as defined by the church, has been bad for the family.

ANA NAVARRO, CNN COMMENTATOR: It's been interesting to see him talk about it because he's definitely given 100 percent support to the family, to the traditional family, but he's done so without excluding what we normally exclude as a non-traditional family.

He's never mentioned the word same-sex marriage. He certainly hasn't condemned it.

What he has done instead is talk with love, support and about strengthening traditional family. I think we have seen so many sides of the pope here and why he is so successful.

We've seen the pope, the politician. We've seen the pope, the head of state. We've seen the social activist. We've seen Father Bergoglio. We've seen the brother of the bishops. It's just been fascinating to see him in so many different facets, doing his thing.

TAPPER: Paul, what strikes you about the pope's visit today?

PAUL BEGALA, CNN COMMENTATOR: Well, we Catholics call him the Holy Father, not just Your Holiness, but he's our holy father. And I think Ana's right. He reaches out at a conference on families especially in a very inclusive way.

Many in my church like to hurl thunderbolts in a very judgmental way. The church teaching is very clear in opposition to same-sex marriage. Yet even when he talked about it today, he did it in way that welcomes people in.

I think this is really a powerful lesson for his brother bishops or for all of us in the church.

Going to the prison this morning, powerful example again of including everyone.

In his talk he quotes his apostolic exhortation, Evangelii Gaudium, which is the gospels are for all of us. It does not exclude any of us. And that's I think the message he's trying to give to the church in America is that, while we do have -- the Catholics do have, many of them, differences from the secular society on these issues, we still have to include everyone and love everyone in the community of the faithful.

NAVARRO: And he was here to speak to all parts of the church in America. And those were not part of the church in America, because he was speaking to the faithful but he was also speaking to the hierarchy.

Seeing him speak to the bishops today was fascinating because a lot of them are being dragged there and being forced to drink. These are not folks who are used to, a lot of them are not used to being out there.

He's constantly pushing them. But a good message and a good lesson to learn for any politician. Get out of your high horse, get out of your office and spend time with your people, your district, your constituents. That's the message he's giving to the bishops.

TAPPER: As I think he pointed and close to his exact words, the shepherd should smell like the flock.

Ana Navarro, Paul Begala, we're going to have a lot more with you two in the next hour when STATE OF THE UNION focuses on politics. Thank you so much for talking with us right now.


TAPPER: Up next, we meet the man who has been at Pope Francis's side for every stop on this historic visit here in Philadelphia. Stay with us.




TAPPER (voice-over): Live images of historic Logan Circle in downtown Philadelphia.

Throughout the pope's trip he has delivered messages to everyone ranging from members of Congress to prisoners here in Philadelphia, to members of the homeless community in Washington, D.C.

It's been a packed trip to be sure.


TAPPER: The pope came here with a mission to deliver his messages of tolerance and love and mercy.

Earlier, I spoke with Philadelphia archbishop Charles Chaput about the pope's goals ahead of this historic trip.


TAPPER: In your conversations with the Vatican, have you gotten any indication about what His Holiness wants to accomplish on his trip to the United States?

ARCHBISHOP CHARLES CHAPUT, PHILADELPHIA: Well, this is his first visit to the United States ever. The heart of the visit is the time in Philadelphia to support and encourage and bless family life.

TAPPER: What do you think are some of the biggest challenges facing families today?

CHAPUT: Well, I think the biggest trouble facing families is fidelity to one another. Divorce has become such a big issue here in the Western world. Families are under tremendous pressure financially. Mom and Dad are both working outside the home in order to just make ends meet. So many issues.

We hope that this helps people recommit themselves to the basics, which loving one another for the sake of the stable life of their children.

TAPPER: Is it difficult as somebody trying to bring more people into the faith, more people into the flock?

Is it difficult to hold the position that marriage is between one man and one woman when public opinion is so overwhelmingly headed the other way?

CHAPUT: Certainly it's very difficult because people who hold the traditional understanding of marriage are painted as bigots by others. And no one wants to be a bigot. And so it's very, very hard to stand up confidently on this kind of issue.

And especially if people don't really understand why the church teaches what it teaches.

There's other issues that undermine marriage, like divorce happened a lot earlier. And we're against divorce. But I don't think we're generally painted as bigots because we're against divorce.

But we're not against anyone actually. We're just promoting marriage as a lifelong commitment between a man and a woman for the sake of children. And that's not bigotry in any sense.

TAPPER: Is there anything that you're particularly excited about telling the pope or showing the pope?

CHAPUT: What I'm anxious to show him is really the church of the United States. We have a very dynamic church here. There's great enthusiasm for helping the poor. And I really want the pope to come away from his visit not only here but Washington and New York with an awareness of how strong the church is and how much the church loves him and loves his service.

TAPPER: Is there is a desire for him to see South Street, the waterfront, to have a soft pretzel?

Is that part of this at all?

CHAPUT: There's a desire in part of everybody in Philadelphia to show the Holy Father their part of the city. But I can't imagine we're not going to have the option of cheesesteaks and soft pretzels and those kinds of things for him.

We know for sure that he's going to see our cathedral. We know for sure he's going to see the art museum and the steps that "Rocky" climbed in the movie. He's going to be on Franklin Parkway for the outdoor events that are scheduled.

TAPPER: You brought up one of the thorniest issues surrounding his visit, which is cheesesteaks.

Have you decided which cheesesteak he's going to sample, at Pat's or Geno's or Tony Luke's? Have you...?

CHAPUT: Well, I suspect that if we buy from most places (INAUDIBLE) we'll buy from all of them. And then he can pick what he wants.



TAPPER (voice-over): Stay with us. More from Philly. Plus, the political fallout from the pope's visit in Washington. STATE OF THE UNION continues next.




TAPPER (voice-over): Welcome back. We're live in Philadelphia. The crowds here are excited, ahead of the pope's outdoor mass, that will be held in about four hours. We've seen a lot of Pope Francis this week, but we wanted to know what the pope is like in his unguarded off-camera moments -- maybe not off-camera moments.

These exclusive photos by the pope's personal photographer reveal some of his ease with people, his way with children, even his sense of humor. They're collected in a new book written by Father Michael Collins, who shares some of his favorites with us.



MICHAEL COLLINS, FORMER VATICAN ADVISER AND AUTHOR (voice-over): He's got this extraordinary laugh. And again, we've wonderful photographs of the belly laugh. When he rolls, he just pushes his head back and he roars laughing. And I think that's a really lovely thing to see in a person.

He's very relaxed in his own skin, as the expression goes. And this, I think, is part of the secret of his success because people feel very relaxed with him.

When Pope Francis celebrated his 78th birthday, he had a funny experience, because he met a young couple who were raising money for charity for children who are sick, to help them cope with their illness.

And they had put two plastic noses on themselves and they gave the pope one. And he put it on his own nose. And it just shows his impish sense of humor. He loves connecting with people. And this was just a happy moment.

Keep in mind that he joined the Jesuit order, which is specifically dedicated to the education of young people. So he was a high school teacher for a number of years and he knows how to work children. It's the group of people that I find really relate to him best.

Many people have said that the success of Pope Francis is not so much what he's doing but it's the fact that it's been reported in social media.

People enjoy it, just having a little memory. There's one marvelous scene where one of the deacons took out his phone and he said, "Do you mind if I take a selfie of the three of us, Holy Father?"

And the pope looked and he looked conspiratorially and said, I don't know if we're allowed to do that here.

Of course, he's the pope. He can do what he wants. And of course then he sat in and took the selfie.

People love his face. Everybody's just saying they love the photograph album feel.

These aren't posed photographs. They're snapped.

There's one great one of -- he's sitting on his chair and the gust of wind takes his little skullcap off. He's seen grabbing, and of course the skullcap is gone, just grabbing his head. And there's all these lovely beautiful shots. And they make the pope come alive to the readers, which is great.

And that was my intention from the very beginning when we started putting this book together, especially for the American visit.