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Obama and Putin Talk Syria; Obama and Putin Meet; Trump Tax Plan. Aired 2-2:30p ET

Aired September 28, 2015 - 14:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[14:00:00] PRES. HASSAN ROUHANI, IRAN (through translator): And the right circumstances will be created for us to do everything within our power and our purview to bring about the swiftest freedom for the Americans held in Iran as well.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: Clearly he wants a prisoner swap.

That's it for me. Thanks very much for watching. I'll be back 5:00 p.m. eastern in "The Situation Room."

The news continues next on CNN.

BROOKE BALDWIN, CNN ANCHOR: All right, Wolf, thank you so much. We'll see you back up on "The Situation Room."

Meantime, great to be with you on this Monday. I'm Brooke Baldwin. And this is CNN.

We start with that tense showdown happening right now with two of the world's most powerful leaders, President Barack Obama preparing to meet with Russian President Vladimir Putin face to face. This hasn't happened in more than two years. It is happening at the United Nations General Assembly. And to say that these two leaders have had some icy relations is quite honestly putting it gently. The tension has just escalated with Russia announcing this new intelligence sharing agreement with Iraq, Iran and Syria. Here was Vladimir Putin speaking last night on "60 Minutes."

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

VLADIMIR PUTIN, RUSSIAN PRESIDENT (through translator): We support the legitimate government of Syria and it's my deep belief that any actions to the contrary, in order to destroy the legitimate government, will create a situation which you can witness now in the other countries of the region or in other regions.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: Now, when President Obama took to the podium at the UNGA this morning, he didn't mince words. Here's what he had to say about Russia propping up Syrian President Bashar al Assad.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: In accordance with his logic, we should support tyrants like Bashar al Assad, who drops barrel bombs to massacre innocent children because the alternative is surely worse. The United States is prepared to work with any nation, including Russia and Iran, to resolve the conflict. But we must recognize that there cannot be, after so much bloodshed, so much carnage, a return to the pre-war status quo.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: First, out to Jim Sciutto we go, our CNN chief national security correspondent.

We know that after President Obama spoke, he - Vladimir Putin then took to that very same podium. How did he respond?

JIM SCIUTTO, CNN CHIEF NATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: I'll tell you, Brooke, they sounded like pretty unlikely partners for peace on the ground in Syria. A diametrically opposed view of the situation on the ground and of Bashar al Assad coming from that podium. President Obama, you heard him there, calling Bashar al Assad a tyrant responsible for the slaughter of tens of thousands of his own people. President Putin calls Assad the only legitimate government of Syria who is, in his words, valiantly fighting terrorism. Here's a listen to what President Putin had to say today.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

VLADIMIR PUTIN, RUSSIAN PRESIDENT (through translator): I think it is an enormous mistake to refuse to cooperate with the Syrian government and its armed forces who are valiantly fighting terrorism face to face. We should finally acknowledge that no one but President Assad's armed forces and Kurds (ph) militia are truly fighting the Islamic State and other terrorist organizations in Syria. I must join efforts to address the problems that all of us are facing and create a generally (ph) broad, international coalition against terrorism, similar to the anti-Hitler coalition, it could unite a broad range of forces that are (INAUDIBLE) resisting those who, just like the Nazis, so evil and hatred of human kind.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SCIUTTO: Now, it's in those final words that U.S. officials see at least the possibility of an opening with Russia, a shared fight against ISIS. The fact is, ISIS is a shared adversary for both the U.S. and Russia. Russia has many of its own people going there to join the fight. They have a problem with Islamic terrorism inside Russia's borders as well. So that is where they have a shared goal. The question is, is that enough for them to move forward considering that they have very different views of Bashar al Assad. But that said, Brooke, I will say this, that President Obama did, in his speech, talk about a managed transition away from Assad. That's very different from what he was calling for a couple of years ago saying he had to go immediately. That leaves open the possibility of some sort of transition period there where he's allowed to stay for a while because the fact is, the U.S. sees that removing him immediately could make the situation even worse on the ground.

BALDWIN: The language has evolved. Jim Sciutto, thank you very much. I'm seeing my next guest nodding as he's listening to you. Let me bring him straight in. Christopher Dickey, world news editor for "The Daily Beast."

And, Chris Dickey, we are, what, three hours away from this big meeting between President Obama and Vladimir Putin. It could if not the last, because there would be one more UNGA next year assuming Putin shows up. Could be one of the last times these two really meet face to face as President Obama is in the Oval Office. Your reaction to this meeting?

[14:05:06] CHRISTOPHER DICKEY, WORLD NEWS EDITOR, "THE DAILY BEAST": Well, I think they've got a lot to sort out. I mean they - obviously, they want to talk about Ukraine, they want to talk about the sanctions against Russia, they want to talk about all that. But I think, really it's going to be Syria, Syria, Syria. I think that was the tone of President Obama's speech today. I think certainly President Putin touched on that. And I think Jim had it exactly right. In fact, you can begin to see them converging.

BALDWIN: Unlikely partners for peace is the (INAUDIBLE).

DICKEY: Unlikely partners for peace. Not about Assad. It's very interesting. Obama is personalizing this about Assad, but Putin is not. Putin, yes, he mentioned Assad, but he's talking about institutions, preserving the institutions, and the government, the legitimate, as he calls it, government in Syria. And that, when you start talking about transition, that all looks like a framework that the two sides can talk about intelligently, not just calling names.

BALDWIN: I mean it could mean that the Kremlin would have influence if and when Assad goes and whoever the successor would be, yes. But at the same time, if this is with this new intel sharing agreement between Russia, Iran, Iraq and Syria -

DICKEY: The gang of four, yes.

BALDWIN: The U.S. - the U.S. not part of that, that would be adding heft to the fight against terrorists. Why would that make the U.S. nervous?

DICKEY: Well, it makes - it makes the U.S. nervous for a number of reasons. We've got 3,000 troops in Iraq right now. What is their main function? Their main function is gathering intelligence and sharing that with the Iraqi government. Is the Iraqi government then going to be sharing that with Iran, Russia and Syria? You know, that's not clear at all. But what we're doing - moving forward into this very murky area where both Russia and Iran and the United States are trying to find some way to cooperate to develop a transition in Syria and intelligence sharing will probably be part of it, even though it's going to be very down and dirty.

BALDWIN: It's interesting what Jim Sciutto pointed out, the evolution of President Obama's language as far as Syria is concerned and Assad in the last couple of years. And I'm wondering, you know, it's one thing to see these leaders speaking publicly at the UNGA, I'm sure it's quite another once the doors are closed in a couple of hours to have Putin and Obama sitting down, as you mentioned, talking Syria, Syria, Syria. How will the public versus the private meetings differ?

DICKEY: Well, I think we've been reporting in "The Daily Beast" for some time, Les Galvin (ph) and other people have been reporting, that there are a lot of people in the Obama administration who actually believe you have to throw your weight at some point behind the government of Syria, as loathsome as it is. If you want to fight ISIS -

BALDWIN: Even though he's dropping barrel bombs on children, as Obama points out?

DICKEY: Even though he's doing all these - all these terrible things. Look, it's the same thing that President Rouhani of Iran said over the weekend, you know, which is the lesser of the evils? Well, they're both incredibly evil, ISIS and Assad. And there are a lot of people in between who are not, not such good guys either. There are really no good players who could reliably take power in Iraq. But the effort of the Obama administration to train those people and find those people and vet those people who might do the job has been a complete failure as we've reported several times in the last week. And given that, you've got to turn somewhere if you want to get - try and get rid of ISIS first. And where we're turning actually, whether we want to admit it or not, is toward Russia, which now has many more planes operating out of Syria and in Syria air space than we do.

BALDWIN: Chris Dickey, thank you very much.

DICKEY: Thank you.

BALDWIN: I appreciate it.

Coming up next, Donald Trump gets specific. The billionaire releasing his highly anticipated tax plan today. And he says it's going to make the wealthy very angry, but is it feasible?

Plus, as Trump's lead is shrinking in the polls, one of the candidates on the rise calls the whole thing a freak show.

And breaking news from the world of space. New proof there is flowing water on Mars. What this means, coming up.

You're watching CNN.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[14:13:03] BALDWIN: This is CNN. I'm Brooke Baldwin.

A new poll has Donald Trump barely holding on to his lead to be the Republican nominee for president. And now the question is this, will his new tax plan draw fire or even more fans to his campaign? Today, the candidate, known for avoiding specifics, got plenty detailed on a topic he proudly admits is in his wheelhouse, to quote him. He says his plan will make taxes lower, simpler for everyone. He says 75 million low income households will pay no income tax, adding this online. Quote, "they get a new one-page form to send the IRS saying I win." And higher incomes Americans, they also get a big tax break. But Trump told reporters one of the way he's paying for this overall tax reduction is by closing loopholes and eliminating deductions that the wealthy love.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: You know, this is actually a tax reduction. I actually - a big tax reduction, including for the upper income. I believe that the economy will do so well that even though they won't be getting certain deductions, which aren't fair for them to be getting, that they'll end up doing better.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: All right, with me now, I have CNN political reporter Sara Murray, I have CNN Money correspondent Cristina Alesci, I have actor, comedian and economist Ben Stein, all here with me, all offering their perspective.

So, Sara, just first to you. Can you walk through the plan for us? And especially how it affects, you know, the entire spectrum of America.

SARA MURRAY, CNN POLITICAL REPORTER: Sure. When you look at it, it's an across the board tax cut as well as a tax cut for businesses. And when it comes to individuals, if you make $25,000 or less, or if you're a couple that makes $50,000 or less, you pay no taxes. No federal taxes. A lot of these people already pay no federal taxes and he's trying to sort of widen the net there.

But also when you look at the top rate, he's changing it from almost 40 percent to 25 percent. And that's what we're talking about, a big tax cut for the wealthy here. Then when you go over to the business side, the highest - the corporate tax rate becomes 15 percent. So this is another tax rate for businesses. When I talked to experts they say it's a little hard to make the math add up in terms of how you're going to find enough deductions and other offsets to make up for all these revenue losses.

[14:15:10] BALDWIN: I'm get to you in a second, because I'm also curious to see how this stacks up with some of the other candidates here. But, Ben Stein, you're listening to this as our economist having worked all the way back in the Nixon White House. You're shaking your hand. Is - head. Is this feasible?

BEN STEIN, ECONOMIST, FORMER NIXON SPEECHWRITER: Well, anything he says is feasible for him to say it, but it has nothing to do with what's going to happen in the real world. You just had a little segment on about flowing water on mars and I was thinking, Mr. Trump's tax plan has as much to do with creating prosperity as the flowing water on mars. There's no reason to think that his plan will do anything to increase prosperity.

The great majority - a great polarity of Americans are already not paying any tax at all. There's no evidence that lowering taxes on the rich raises national productivity. There's no evidence of raising - lowering - sorry, lowering taxes on corporations raises national productivity. I don't see where any of this is going to lead us except to ever bigger deficits.

Look, we're running a $500 - almost $500 million deficit right now. How much can - how long can this go on? We just can't keep having these gigantic deficits forever.

BALDWIN: Our Money correspondent is listening too and she's nodding. Forcefully nodding here as she's listening to you. So if you want to jump in on what he just said, and, also, I think it is important to compare it to other tax plans, the Jeb Bush tax plan and others who have been out there.

CRISTINA ALESCI, CNN MONEY CORRESPONDENT: Yes. I mean, let's get real, right? He's saying one way to generate growth, one way to make the GDP numbers increase is by forcing corporations or making - incentivizing them from taking their overseas profits and bring them back to the U.S. Well, you know what, we tried that already. We tried that in 2003. It did not create any additional jobs. What happened is, the companies took that cash and gave it back to their shareholders, there investors.

As far as differentiating himself from other Republican candidates, they all kind of want to do the same thing. This is, you know, "The New York Times" said this is a high energy version of Jeb Bush's plan, right? They all want to reduce the number of individual tax brackets that we all have. They want to decrease the amount of corporate taxes paid. So this is very consistent with the rest of what - the rest of the Republican candidates.

BALDWIN: It is consistent?

ALESCI: It is. It's, you know, lower taxes for everyone, everyone will benefit without any real specifics. And, look, this is the guy who said, we're going to go after the hedge fund managers.

BALDWIN: That's right.

ALESCI: We're going to be hard on them. And you know what? Look - based on what we know right now, the hedge fund managers aren't going to pay that much more. They're going to pay maybe 2 percent more than they're paying now, which is not a big - a big bump at all.

BALDWIN: Yes.

ALESCI: What's interesting, though, is that he got the other Republicans to say that they would do something about the hedge fund managers' tax structure and then he backed away from it when he unveiled his plan. It's very interesting to see that because those guys would only say that behind closed doors until Trump started putting it in front of the - the mainstream people.

BALDWIN: That's what he would say, I'll talk about it publically and then we'll get everyone else, right? And then something else we were wondering this morning and you asked him today, Sara Murray. It's like you hear this whole plan and you wonder, OK, how would this personally affect billionaire Donald Trump? What did - what did he say?

MURRAY: You know, the marketing on the tax, ahead of it, the teases were, this would cost me a fortune. This is going to be very difficult for the wealthy. But when I asked him what his effective tax rate was and whether this plan would make it go up or down, he dodged the question and said he would get into more on that later. And he ultimately said, look, this is going to be great for people at the upper end of the income scale too. So I think that gives you a little bit of an idea. Donald Trump's taxes, I'm sure, are very complicated, but today, no straight answer.

BALDWIN: Ben Stein, final word. I mean you talk about the deficit as the historian, someone who's lived through so many different presidents. Who - what do you think? Whose tax plan do you like the best? You tell me.

STEIN: I like the - the present tax plan is much better than any of the Republican tax plans. And I say that as a devout Republican. But what we're really talking about here is raising taxes on our grandchildren. I mean we can't run these deficits forever. Somebody, some day is going to have to pay for them. It's going to be our children and grandchildren. So when he says he's lowering taxes on some but he's raising taxes on our grandchildren.

BALDWIN: Ben Stein, thank you very much. Cristina Alesci, Sara Murray, ladies, I appreciate it as well.

Make sure you watch Erin Burnett. She's sitting down with Donald Trump here and we'll be speaking with her next hour to just get a little bit of a tease of her interview that, of course, will air in full on her show tonight, 7:00 Eastern, on CNN.

Coming up next, Marco Rubio says he will not be part of what he calls the Donald Trump freak show. The problem is, Rubio is engaging Trump and hurling insults his way. Will it work for him?

Also ahead, NASA announcing a tremendous discovery today, water on mars. Present, as in present tense water on mars. Does this mean the red planet could currently sustain life? We'll get into it.

[14:20:01] You're watching CNN.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BALDWIN: Well, as we just discussed, well, Donald Trump revealed his tax plan a couple of hours ago. His rival for the Republican nomination, Senator Marco Rubio, called Trump's campaign, in two words, "freak show." He did that during a radio interview on NPR. Rubio was asked to actually respond to Trump calling him a kid during a recent campaign stop. Here is Senator Rubio.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. MARCO RUBIO (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Well, look, I'm not interested in the back and forth to be a member or part of his freak show. I would just say this, he is a very sensitive person. He doesn't like to be criticized. He responds to criticism very poorly. He had a speech in South Carolina to an empty crowd. He got booed on Friday at that Value Voters Summit. His poll numbers have taken a beating and he was embarrassed on national television at the debate by Carly Fiorina and others. But this election is not going to be about Donald Trump. He thinks it is. But it's not about him. It has to be about the issues confronting our country. And my sense of it is that every time issues become prominent, he will say something outrageous or so something outrageous so that he doesn't have to talk about the issues.

[14:25:17] (END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: Well, that jab from Rubio was then met with a jab from Trump while he was unveiling the tax plan earlier today. Here's Donald Trump.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Senator Rubio is a lightweight. We understand that. He wouldn't be able to do this. He wouldn't know a trade deal from any other deal. Guys like Rubio, I mean, he desperately needs money. Ask the car dealer in Florida. Ask the people that support him. And a guy like Rubio, and others, I don't want to single him out, you're singling him out, but they're largely controlled by their donors, the special interests and frankly more than anybody else the lobbyists.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: Let's talk about all this back and forth and where it goes from here. I have CNN political commentator Amanda Carpenter, a conservative writer, who once served as communications director for Senator Ted Cruz, and with us Trump supporter and CNN political commentator Jeffrey Lord.

So welcome to both of you.

And -

JEFFREY LORD, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Hey there, Brooke.

BALDWIN: Hey, hey.

Hey, ladies first. So, Amanda, first to you.

LORD: Yes, ma'am.

BALDWIN: You heard Rubio call Trump a freak show. But, you know, Rubio has not at all been shy about engaging with Donald Trump. In fact, in the same interview, he rattled through some of the Trump insults. Do you think that this will work for him, because it doesn't always work for everyone who goes after Trump, Amanda. What's Rubio's play?

AMANDA CARPENTER, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Well, listen, Brooke, I've been very critical of Republican candidates who get sucked into the Trump trap, but I'm willing to give Marco Rubio a pass here.

BALDWIN: Why?

CARPENTER: Listen, Donald Trump has been going after Marco Rubio hard ever since Marco Rubio made gains in the last debate. And if you look at Marco Rubio's shining moment, it was when he was telling Donald Trump why he was misunderstanding Vladimir Putin's aspirations in the Middle East. That was his best moment. So Donald Trump knows that Rubio is a threat and has gone after him, called him a loser at the Value Voters Summit and he got booed for it. Why? Because people like Marco Rubio. And so I think he's actually doing a really good job of walking the line into showing people that he's not going to take these attacks from Donald Trump, but also not being dominated by it. And he quickly pivots back into his own message and that's kind of the line that they need to be walking.

BALDWIN: So let's do, Jeffrey, a little Trump translation. Do you think, you know, if Donald Trump goes after someone, in this case, Marco Rubio, calls him a loser or what have you. Does that really mean he's a little nervous? I mean could Marco Rubio, at the moment, Jeffrey, be Trump's biggest competition?

LORD: Well, you know, here's what I think is Marco's problem.

BALDWIN: Yes or no. Yes or no.

LORD: Yes, which, do I - do I think he gains anything by going after him? Sure. Is he - is he - look, if you go after your competition, and he's a great counterpuncher, and Marco Rubio attacked him, so he punched back. But if you don't -

BALDWIN: Does he make him nervous?

LORD: Does it make him nervous? Well, I have no idea whether it makes him nervous. But if you're - if you're the front runner, you should always be keeping an eye on the people gaining on you from the - from behind.

BALDWIN: True.

LORD: It - you know, look, look, what I would say here, Brooke, is, Marco Rubio remarkably went from being the anti-establishment candidate to be senator from Florida. And was a huge champion of the Tea Party and all of this. He got to the Senate and he sort of saddled up to Mitch McConnell and became, you know, very pro-immigration, got involved with the gang of eight. It did him some damage and it's still doing him some damage. And when he goes off on these tangents, he is, for reasons that I frankly don't understand, identifying himself more with the establishment when he should be up there with Donald Trump and Ben Carson and Carly Fiorina as one of the - one of the anti- establishment candidates and he isn't.

BALDWIN: No.

LORD: Why isn't he the choice is beyond me. BALDWIN: No, you're right, he does fall under, I think, a lot of

people now would consider him more of an establishment candidate. And then another one you have, Amanda, is Jeb Bush. And when you read "The Washington Post" this morning, the big donors told "The Post" that it's really make or break time for him. That he has to prove himself or that, you know, establishment Republicans will move on to support another candidate.

When you look at "The Wall Street Journal"/NBC News poll, I mean he has lost half his support since this summer and it's not even October. I mean I know there are still 15 other candidates. Jeb Bush says, listen, this is a marathon. Amanda, is he right or do you see the situation for Jeb Bush as that dire?

CARPENTER: Well, I think Jeb Bush is certainly in trouble. He had all the money in the world, all the infrastructure. Essentially, you know, his dad and his brother were able to hand him a campaign in the box and say, here, go be president and he still can't make it happen. And this is precisely why I think Rubio is such a threat to Donald Trump at this moment in time. Rubio is essentially getting the attention from the Jeb Bush donors and supporters, from the Scott Walker donors and supporters. Those people are eyeing him as maybe the horse to take them and carry the establishment mantle into the 2016 election.

[14:29:54] It is a curious thing because Marco Rubio, when he came to the Senate, was an outsider, just like Jeffrey mentioned. But right now, there's a lot of encouragement from the establishment type crowd for Marco Rubio to play that role, and his command over foreign policy issues is very important to that crowd, and so I see him coalescing a lot of support and going forward down that path as we go through the primaries.