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Ben Carson Pressed on Controversial Muslim Comments; Obama and Putin to Meet Face to Face Today; Interview with Deputy Secretary of State Antony Blinken; Pope Francis Meets with Clergy Sex Abuse Victims. Aired 6:30-7a ET

Aired September 28, 2015 - 06:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[06:32:02] MICHAELA PEREIRA, CNN ANCHOR: Republican presidential contender Ben Carson now running neck and neck with Donald Trump according to a new NBC News/Wall Street Journal national poll. The retired neurosurgeon though still trying to clarify his stance on the possibility of a Muslim president.

In an extended interview on CNN's "STATE OF THE UNION" Jake Tapper pressed him on the issue until his campaign manager stopped the interview altogether. Watch.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JAKE TAPPER, CNN ANCHOR, "STATE OF THE UNION": You said last week, quote, "I would not advocate that we put a Muslim in charge of this nation. I absolutely would not agree with that."

CARSON: I would advocate that people go back and look at the transcript.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CHUCK TODD, NBC NEWS HOST: Should a president's faith matter? Should your faith matter to voters?

CARSON: Well, I guess it depends on what that faith is. If it's inconsistent with the values and principles of America, then of course it should matter. But if it fits within the realm of America and consistent with the Constitution, I have no problem.

TODD: So do you believe that Islam is consistent with the constitution?

CARSON: No, I do not. I would not advocate that we put a Muslim in charge of this nation. I absolutely would not agree with that.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TAPPER: He didn't ask you about Islam, if you thought Islam was consistent with the Constitution, and you said Muslims, that you would have a problem with a Muslim being president.

CARSON: I would have problems with somebody who embraced all the doctrines associated with Islam. If they're not willing to reject, you know, sharia and all the portions of it that are talked about in the Koran, if they're not willing to reject that and subject that to American values and the Constitution, then of course I wouldn't. And I would ask you, would you be willing to do that? Would you be willing to advocate for somebody that would not do that. Probably not.

TAPPER: I don't assume that because somebody's Muslim that hey would put their religion ahead of the U.S. Constitution. And in fact the U.S. Constitution itself says no religious test.

CARSON: Yes, except that I had already said, before that, that anybody from any religion, from any background, if they are -- I told you what the criteria were for that. I told Chuck Todd what the criteria for -- so he's asking this out of that context.

TAPPER: You seem to be singling out Muslims as individuals who automatically, as a kneejerk, would put their religion ahead of the country. And I think that that offended a lot of people, including a lot of patriotic Muslims.

CARSON: I think the statement stands.

TAPPER: So you are saying that there is something specific about being a Muslim that you have to reject Islam in order to be the president?

CARSON: Well, you have to reject the tenets of Islam. Yes, you have to.

TAPPER: And that's different from an orthodox Jew or a devout Christian?

CARSON: If there's a devout Christian who's running and they refuse to reject the ideals of our Constitution or if they want to establish a theocracy, I cannot advocate for them.

[06:35:09] TAPPER: I guess the point is, you seem to be suggesting that Muslim- Americans automatically want a theocracy. And I just don't know any Muslim-Americans, and I know plenty, who feel that way, even if they are observant Muslims.

CARSON: OK, in terms of the tenets of Islam, are you familiar with them?

TAPPER: I'm familiar --

CARSON: The corpus juris from the authoritative group of the people who make the rules that goes back to the 10th century AD.

TAPPER: I'm familiar with extremist interpretations of plenty of religions.

CARSON: I'm not talking about extremist interpretations; I'm talking about what is required. And you have to make a specific declaration and decision to reject the portions of it.

TAPPER: I think one of the things is just you are a member of a church that there's a lot of misinformation about, the Seventh Day Adventist church. You know what it's like for people to make false assumptions about you. And you seem to be doing the same thing with Muslims.

CARSON: In which way am I making a false assumption?

TAPPER: You're assuming that Muslim-Americans put their religion ahead of the country.

CARSON: I'm assuming that if you accept all the tenets of Islam that you would have a very difficult time abiding under the Constitution of the United States.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE (off camera): OK. This interview is over.

TAPPER: OK

(END VIDEOTAPE)

CHRIS CUOMO, CNN ANCHOR: Silence!

PEREIRA: Did you hear any more of the back story? I mean, that is very unusual for a campaign manager to come in after that long of an interview to stop things.

CUOMO: Well, it's ill advised. But they felt Jake was harping on one point and it was supposed to be an extensive interview on different points. The problem is, the point matters. The problem is the candidate --

(CROSSTALK)

ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN ANCHOR: Absolutely, it's the point that everyone is trying to clarify.

CUOMO: -- seems to be pandering to a xenophobic religious minority in this country, that's anti-Islam, and as he tried to clarify his position, it does demand clarification.

CAMEROTA: But I don't know that he's pandering to it. That's how he feels. I mean, that was -- I think that that was Ben Carson explaining how he truly feels. He doesn't seem to be pandering. I mean, Jake pressed him enough times that I think that's his authentic feeling.

Has he sat down yet with Muslim leaders?

PEREIRA: That's what needs to happen.

CAMEROTA: Remember how he was going maybe that was part of the plan. We need to find out.

CUOMO: Those meeting -- you know, look, very often, unless you're the pope, those meetings in a political context are just all show, no go. You say he believes it. I find it hard to believe that a man of Ben Carson's intelligence, and it is formidable intelligence, would paint any group or faith with the same brush. He's too smart to do that.

CAMEROTA: I am taking him at his word there, since Jake tried a few times to get him to say --

CUOMO: Jake did the right thing. No question about that.

Russia signs a surprise accord to help fight ISIS. That's good but who are they really helping? Ooh, that's troubling. Russia supports an oppressive Assad regime in Syria. This will loom large as Putin and the U.S. president go head to head in a much hyped meeting. We'll get you the inside scoop on the U.S. strategy.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

[06:42:03] VLADIMIR PUTIN, RUSSIAN PRESIDENT (via translator): Support the legitimate government of Syria and it's my deep belief that any actions to the contrary in order to destroy the legitimate government will create a situation which you can witness now in the other countries of the region or in other regions.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CUOMO: Vladimir Putin defending his support of Syria president Bashar al Assad. President Obama set to meet with Putin today comes amid a surprise announcement. Russia has signed an accord that it's going to share intelligence about ISIS with Iraq, Syria and Iran. So what's going on here? Is that good news or bad news?

Let's get some perspective. From the United States' perspective, Deputy Secretary of State Tony Blinken joins us now.

As we understand it from Secretary Madeleine Albright, this is complicated because you have to take the Russia that you don't like from the Russia you may be able to work with. What do you see in this surprise accord? Is this a good development?

ANTONY BLINKEN, DEPUTY SECRETARY OF STATE: Chris, I think Secretary Albright is exactly right. What we're seeing now is some limited cooperation. And it's directed at a common enemy. And that's ISIL, and that's not a bad thing. Of course Iraq is a sovereign country; it has the right to decide where it gets help from.

But the coalition that we put together, that President Obama has put together, more than 60 countries, is carrying the lion's share of the burden in Iraq. And we're making slow, hard, but very real progress. A year ago, Iraq was under siege by ISIL: moving on Baghdad, moving on Erbil. It took Tikrit, it took the Mosul Dam, the Yazidis were being slaughtered. All of that has been reversed. It controls 30 percent less territory than it did a year ago in Iraq. So the coalition is the one that is producing those results. It's slow. It's hard. But it is making progress. CAMEROTA: OK, so back to this surprise announcement where the Iraqi

military now says it will share intelligence with Russia, Syria, and Iran, no allies of the U.S. We read that this caught the White House by surprise.

BLINKEN: No, I think what Russia has been trying to do, Russia has actually been pushing this idea of a new coalition. But the fact of the matter is, there's no need to re-invent the wheel. And the Iraqis are deeply cooperating with the coalition of 60 or more countries.

CAMEROTA: But what was your reaction in the White House when you read that there was this triumvirate of countries who are not friend's of the U.S. who are now somehow involved?

BLINKEN: If countries are going to focus on a common enemy, and that's ISIL, that can be a good and positive thing. If, on the other hand, they're taking steps to create more sectarian divisions in Iraq or they're taking steps to prop up the Assad regime in Syria, that's a bad thing.

CAMEROTA: Were you surprised by it?

BLINKEN: No, I don't think we were surprised because we've seen that the Russians have been trying to get back in the game in the region for some time.

CUOMO: Right, look, you keep getting pressed about being surprised because it looks like a bad thing that you guys would have tried to stop if you'd been able to, so it looks like you couldn't stop it. It happened. And the political implication is that now you have to figure out which way this game is headed. If Iran is more important to Iraq, using the Quds force on the ground than U.S. fighters, because they're not actively fighting, that's a problem.

[06:45:00] If Russia is now involved with Iraq in a way that they et to be friendly, when you know they want to help Syria stay with Assad, that's a problem. So where's the good news?

BLINKEN: So, again, the good news is if different countries are focused on a common objective, and that's dealing with ISIL and defeating ISIL, that's a positive thing if it's done in the right way. And again I come back to the proposition, Chris, that Iraq has the right as a sovereign country to look for help in different places. But the lion's share of it is coming from the coalition that we built.

CAMEROTA: So what is President Obama looking for from Vladimir Putin today in this meeting?

BLINKEN: Well, look, we have profound differences, as you know, on Ukraine, on Syria. But it would be irresponsible not to test the proposition that we might be able to make more progress together through these high-level engagements including with the president.

In Syria, Russia is doing two things. On the one hand it says it's trying to fight ISIL. And again that can be a positive. But at the same time, it's propping up Assad. It has tremendous influence with Assad. You can't on the one hand say you're dousing the ISIL fire with water while you're adding fuel to the fire by propping up Assad who's a magnet for terrorism, a magnet for ISIL.

Russia is in a precarious position. Syria has long been its only foothold in the Middle East. It wants to hold on to that. And, at the same time, it has to have one word in its mind: Afghanistan. It can't afford to get caught in a quagmire where its troops get drawn in and in and in. At the same time, it's been trying to make nice with Saudi Arabia, with the Gulf countries, the other Sunni countries. It can't do that if it's propping up Assad, who is the one who is taking the fight to Sunnis in Syria. so Russia has a very complicated problem.

CUOMO: So there's a little bit of a confusion about which Putin the president will be sitting down with, the one who wants to extend a hand or the one who wants to push him out of the way. Same thing with President Obama. Which Obama sits down? The one who says whatever you do, it's OK, I still want to work with you. Or I'm glad we've had this moment together face to face; you better stop what you're doing or you're going to have a big problem. Which Obama will it be?

BLINKEN: Well, I think it's the Obama, President Obama, that we've seen all along: someone who marries strength and wisdom at the same time. He has put together this coalition of more than 60 countries that's making progress in Iraq and in Syria. In Ukraine, we've taken steps with our partners in Europe to put a lot of pressure on Russia to reverse what it's doing in Ukraine, to stop the siege of Ukraine, and to allow Ukraine to regain its sovereignty. I think that's the President Obama that President Putin will see today.

CAMEROTA: I know you didn't get a chance to see Putin on "60 Minutes" in its entirety last night. But it was interesting. He was sort of very relaxed, he was cracking some jokes. He was smiling. He was asked at one point, and I won't play it because I don't want to take the time, but he was asked if he thinks President Obama is weak on international relations. And he said no, I don't think that he's weak. I think that in America you all are just playing a political football with Putin, basically that his name gets tossed around because it's the political season.

What are you -- What is our take on Putin at this point?

BLINKEN: You know, it's focused on President Putin's actions. We've had a track record of cooperation with the Russians on a number of very important issues. It's an important country. That cooperation can make a difference for us and for people around the world. On the other hand, we have real differences based on President Putin's actions. And, primarily, the actions that he took to violate the sovereignty and territorial integrity of Ukraine, to deny to the people of Ukraine the right to make decisions about their own future. That's the principal difference. If we can resolve that, then I believe there are real grounds for cooperation.

In Syria, though, Russia can play a real and important role. It has influence with Assad, and if it can use that influence to press for a negotiated political transition that leads to Assad's departure, that is the answer to Syria.

CAMEROTA: So much to talk about today at the U.N. We'll be watching closely. Deputy Secretary Tony Blinken, thanks so much for being on NEW DAY.

BLINKEN: Thanks for having me.

CAMEROTA: Michaela.

PEREIRA: All right, Pope Francis meeting with victims of priest sex abuse and vowing to hold predators accountable. Many victims, though, remain unmoved, saying they need actions, not words. Ahead, we're going to hear from a survivor.

[06:49:04]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

PEREIRA: Pope Francis is back at the Vatican this morning after his impressive tour of the United States. Sunday, he met with five sex abuse survivors of the Catholic Church. The pope told a gathering the bishops and clergy that God weeps for the victims.

We want to talk about it with Pennsylvania State Representative Mark Rozzi, who was abused by a priest as a child. Representative, I know this is a very difficult thing to have to talk about, but I am so glad that you're here with us this morning.

The pope made a little bit of news overnight, or this morning for us. Made some comments to the press corps that was on the plane with him returning back to the Vatican. I want to read some of those comments to you.

STATE REP. MARK ROZZI (D), PENNSYLVANIA: OK.

PEREIRA: Because he addressed the fact that those he said that covered up abuse are just as responsible, saying we know the abuses are everywhere in families, in the neighborhoods, in the schools, in the gyms, but when a priest abuses, it is very serious. Those who covered this up are guilty.

And he went on to say that he does not judge those who can't and don't forgive their abusers.

What are your thoughts, Mark?

ROZZI: You know, I have forgiven Father Graff, who has abused me. But I can never forgive the hierarchy, the diocesan officials who knew what was going on, and they just kept putting victim's in harm's way. How can they pick the institution and pedophile priest, protecting them, over protecting children? That is just totally unacceptable.

PEREIRA: What kind of accountability would you lake to see?

ROZZI: What I hear from almost every victim that I talk to, especially from clergy abuse and non-clergy abuse, is they want to have their voices heard in a court of law. They want the two-year window to open up and let all the victims, you know, go into the court, expose their perpetrator. And, you know, that's the only thing that will bring healing to victims.

[06:55:09] PEREIRA: You talk about the healing. You yourself are a survivor. You have three friends that were victims that committed suicide. This is an intensely painful and important message for you because I know you want to make sure that children are not the victims of predators.

The pope talks repeatedly about forgiveness. That is such an important part of this, but it is still -- you feel process is part of forgiveness. Do you not?

ROZZI: Absolutely. The men who committed these crimes and the men who covered them up need to be held accountable. These men belong in prison. They do not belong living on the eastern shoreline in a very cozy house still getting their pensions. Some of them -- I just found out one of them is living next to an ice cream shop where kids are visiting every single day, while victims are home suffering. Some of them have multiple personality disorders, some of them are alcoholics, drug addicts, sex addicts. These victims are out there suffering and then these priests are moving on with a cushy life? And then victims are just revictimized over and over and over to the point where you can't take it anymore.

PEREIRA: How do you feel about the pope sitting down with victims of abuse? Do you think it was a step in the right direction? We know that the director of the survivors' network of those abused by priest some say it was a smart public relations move. Do you agree with that?

ROZZI: Oh, absolutely. What many people don't know though is when he was the archbishop down in Argentina, he never met with victims of sexual abuse. Never. And only 15 months into his papacy did he meet with victims. And now he comes to Philadelphia and he meets with victims. And I appreciate that. I do. I want him -- I want him to hear directly from the victims what the church did.

But what I also want him to understand is, because of, you know, what the Pennsylvania Catholic Conference is doing, they're not only just blocking victims of clergy abuse, but they are also blocking non- victims of -- the victims from non-clergy abuse. And that results in 95 percent of the victims. Only 5 percent is clergy abuse victims. So what the church is doing, they're blocking everybody. And that is just totally unfair.

PEREIRA: Representative Mark Rozzi, we appreciate you joining us. Your passion is evident. We also know that you're sponsoring a bill that would raise the age of adult victims of child sex abuse to file civil claims from 30 to 50. We'll get you back to talk about those efforts. Thanks for joining us on NEW DAY today.

ROZZI: Thank you.

PEREIRA: We're following a whole lot of news this morning. So let's get to it.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

PEREIRA: President Obama and Putin will have a sitdown meeting for the first time in two years.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We've heard the White House call Putin desperate to talk to President Obama.

CHRISTIANE AMANPOUR, CNN CHIEF INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: You hold four Americans.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: New hope to the family of "Washington Post" journalist, Jason Rezaian.

AMANPOUR: He's setting up a sort of prisoner swamp.

CHRISTINE ROMANS, CNN ANCHOR: Donald Trump today is going to unveil his tax plan.

SCOTT PELLEY, CBS HOST: You're talking about making part of the population exempt from income tax.

DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: That is correct.

CARSON: Very difficult time abiding under the Constitution of the United States.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This interview is over.

TAPPER: OK.

CAMEROTA: On Pope Francis's return flight to Rome, he revealed some things to reporters.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I don't judge someone who can't forgive.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Pope Francis told survivors of clerical sex abuse that he was profoundly sorry.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

ANNOUNCER: This is NEW DAY with Chris Cuomo, Alisyn Camerota and Michaela Pereira.

CAMEROTA: Good morning, everyone. Welcome back to your NEW DAY. We begin with the crucial meeting on the world stage. President Obama and Russian President Vladimir Putin scheduled to sit down at the United Nations today. The pair have not met face to face in two years. The crisis in Syria is expected to be the key topic of discussion.

CUOMO: Big question, has the U.S. been outmaneuvered by Russia with this surprise deal with Iraq, Syria, and Iran to share intelligence about ISIS? Iran and Russia now becoming friends with Iraq, a country America spent so much blood and treasure defending without their help. So now what?

CNN has complete coverage, beginning with Pentagon correspondent Barbara Starr, live with the latest developments. Barbara, you're getting pushback to the word "surprise" in the context of the U.S. knowledge of this surprise deal.

BARBARA STARR, CNN PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT: Well, I have to tell you, Chris, that certainly this had been on the radar of the U.S. intelligence community and the Pentagon since late last week when they began to get word about this deal being negotiated by Russia. It is going to make today's meeting certainly more tense. Russia now reaching an intelligence sharing agreement with Iran, Iraq and Syria.

It's that last one, Syria, that of course causes heartburn for President Obama, because it underscores the U.S. suspicion that Putin and the Russian military is going into Syria to prop up Bashar al Assad. The U.S. wants Assad out.

[07:00:00] Russia, certainly at this point, it seems to be playing the ground to prop him up to perhaps set up its own proxy replacement if Assad were to fall.