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Vatican Will Not Confirm or Deny Meeting with Kim Davis; Georgia Executes Woman Despite Pope Plea. Aired 9-9:30a ET

Aired September 30, 2015 - 09:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[09:00:02] CAROL COSTELLO, CNN ANCHOR: That sounds awesome to me. You guys have a great day.

NEWSROOM starts now.

ANNOUNCER: This is CNN breaking news.

COSTELLO: And good morning, I'm Carol Costello. Thank you so much for joining me.

We begin this hour with breaking news in the fight against ISIS. And an uneasy alliance that now faces a new test. This morning we learned that Russia has launched its first airstrike on extremist targets in Syria. And adding to the drama, Russia has told the United States to ground its warplanes in that country.

There is a lot to break down. CNN's Barbara Starr is tracking the story from the Pentagon. Elise Labott is getting more from the State Department. And our CNN military analyst Lt. Col. Rick Francona is putting this all into perspective.

But, Barbara, I want to start with you. What's happening in Syria?

BARBARA STARR, CNN PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT: Here is the latest, Carol. We now know that it was four Russian warplanes that flew and bombed targets near the city of Homs in central western Syria. Why is this so significant, this area? Because this is not an area where ISIS generally operates. This is an area where anti-regime forces operate, militias trying to bring down Bashar al-Assad, the leader that Russia wants to keep in power.

This is not what the U.S. wanted to see happen. And it all began earlier today in Baghdad when a Russian general went to the U.S. embassy, according to several U.S. officials this Russian general read a statement telling the U.S. military that Russian strikes -- airstrikes would begin within one hour of them being notified at that time. And in fact it was just shortly after that that U.S. military intelligence got the first indications that Russian warplanes had taken off.

The Russian general told the U.S., we are told by U.S. officials, that the U.S. should not fly its warplanes in Syria. That it should stay out of the way. The U.S. response they tell us is that U.S. missions over Syria continue. That U.S. warplanes are not grounded. But this is going to be a very tough road ahead because. of course, the U.S. and Moscow were supposed to sit down and talk about how to de-conflict all these missions. If the Russians are going to fly, how to make sure that the U.S. and the Russians have transparency, that each military knows what the other side is doing. Today the U.S. military got one hour's notice -- Carol.

COSTELLO: Wow. Barbara Starr, thanks so much.

I know it's all tad confusing, right? At first the Obama administration expressed concern about Russian intervention in Syria. But now, well, Secretary of State John Kerry is calling Russia's intervention, quote, "an opportunity."

Our State Department correspondent Elise Labott is here to parse that out. What does he mean? Which is it?

ELISE LABOTT, CNN FOREIGN AFFAIRS REPORTER: Well, Carol, clearly the U.S. has been caught a little flat footed over the last few days with the Russian military buildup on the ground. And in an effort to try and what they are calling de-conflict the situation, they are trying to say, if we can all get on the same page and use Russia's influence on the ground, their strategic influence, political influence, Bashar al-Assad and the Russian military buildup to go after ISIS, then it could be a benefit. Clearly things don't seem to be going in that direction right now.

Let's take a --

(CROSSTALK)

COSTELLO: -- cross purposes, right? Because Russia wants to help Bashar al-Assad. The United States doesn't like Bashar al-Assad and they want him out of power. It's just confusing.

LABOTT: Well, that's right. And you know, General Breedlove, the supreme allied commander, was talking the other day and said, look, I'm looking at some of this equipment on the ground. This is not going after ISIS because these are antiaircraft weapons that Barbara has been talking about, and, you know, ISIS is not using air operations on the ground. The coalition led by the U.S. is. So, you know, what are they up to? They really don't know. But clearly there is an effort to try and accentuate the positive. Take a listen to Secretary Kerry.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

LABOTT: A lot of talk this week about President Putin's actions in Syria creating new realities on the ground. And some have said that it's kind of boxed the U.S. into a corner a little bit. Is that true?

JOHN KERRY, SECRETARY OF STATE: I couldn't disagree more. I don't see it boxes us in the least. In fact, I think it opens up more options. But I think it makes life very complicated for Putin himself, for President Putin, because if he's going to side with Assad and with Iran and Hezbollah, he's going to have a very serious problem with the Sunni countries in the region. And that means that he could even become a target for those Sunni jihadis. So this is very complicated for him. He needs to work something out.

LABOTT: But --

KERRY: And I think it is an opportunity, to be honest. I think it's an opportunity for us to force this question of how you actually resolve the question of Syria.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LABOTT: And then he went on, Carol, to talk about how the United States is working with Russia on what they call this managed transition.

[09:05:07] You remember just some few years ago they are telling Assad his days are numbered. Now I think there is an understanding that he's going to stay on the ground a long time while this -- you know, situation with ISIS and is de-conflicted and the situation gets a little bit better, a little bit less conflict. But clearly the Russians don't want him to go anywhere soon. And, you know, Secretary Kerry pretty much acknowledged that --

(CROSSTALK)

COSTELLO: Yes. I think the United States doesn't have a replacement for Bashar al-Assad at the moment.

LABOTT: Well, that's the big problem.

COSTELLO: OK. But we have new video coming in and I want to show our viewers. These are the airstrikes that are taking place over Syria or just took place over Syria a short time ago.

I what to bring in CNN military analyst, Lt. Col. Rick Francona.

Colonel, are you there? And welcome.

LT. COL. RICK FRANCONA, CNN MILITARY ANALYST: Good morning.

COSTELLO: There you are. OK. So I want to put this all into perspective. So Russia is conducting airstrikes near the city of Homs, which is not an ISIS stronghold. So what are they up to?

FRANCONA: Well, the Russians have been pretty up front that they want Bashar al-Assad to stay in power just like Barbara and Elise have mentioned. The target of these strikes is what's critical. Are they going after ISIS? Or are they going after anti-regime rebels? I suspect in that area there are more anti-regime rebels, although they may have struck ISIS to probably open up the dialogue, so to speak. So our first strike was ISIS and then they'll turn their attention to the rebels.

You know, the Russians have a very clear mission here. They want to support Bashar al-Assad. They want to keep access to the area. And I think all of their operations are going to be to that effect. Their demarche to the United States to stay out of the airspace isn't going to work. We're going to continue our operations there. But I think the Russian presence and the Russian airstrikes have forced us into a new reality. The Russians are there, they're there to stay. They're going to be involved. And we have to -- now recognize the fact that we're probably not going to be able to overthrow Bashar al-Assad before we deal with ISIS. You can't do both simultaneously.

COSTELLO: OK. But here's the disturbing thing in my mind. So now it's like a tug of war in Syria between the United States and Russia because this is -- this is how it all went down. A Russian general went to the U.S. embassy in Baghdad, told the United States it should get its airplanes out of Syrian airspace. The United States did not do that.

So is this how it's going to be? And what kind of danger might that present to U.S. forces?

FRANCONA: Yes. This is the big problem. How do you -- deconfliction is the big problem. How do you operate that many air forces in such small airspace without an international incident. At some point you are going to have American aircraft in close proximity to Russian aircraft. Are they going to coordinate their operations? Are they going to talk to each other? Or are we going to have an accident up there in the skies?

These aircrafts are, you know, very sophisticated, carry a lot of weapons. And got aggressive pilots on both sides. This is something that we have to work out on the ground. And Baghdad is probably the place to do that. But we cannot afford to get in a shooting match with the Russians over Syria.

COSTELLO: OK. So let's -- I'm just remembering back when Russia was fighting in Afghanistan. That was before our involvement. And they were there for many years and they failed miserably. Right? So how good are they at such things?

FRANCONA: Well, depends on what they're -- I mean, they're very good at conducting airstrikes. They've got capable aircraft. They've just deployed their latest fighter bomber, the Sukhoi 34. It's a very good aircraft. The Russian pilots are very, very capable. They can bring a lot of firepower to bear. Now they don't fear collateral damage. Civilian casualties as much as we do. So I think you're going to see a lot more Russian ordinance put into targets that we wouldn't go after. Our pilots often return with munitions because they don't have a clear view of the target and do not want to cause civilian casualties. The Russians will not be as sensitive.

COSTELLO: All right. Lt. Col. Rick Francona, thanks for your insight as always. I appreciate it.

Also right now, thousands of civilians are fleeing their homes in the northern Afghan city of Kunduz. This after Taliban militants took over that key city and now Afghan forces are struggling to retake it. U.S. forces have conducted airstrikes and NATO Special Forces are also assisting. But a shortage of ground troops is hindering operations. In the meantime hundreds of reinforcements are reportedly being blocked by the Taliban in a neighboring province. Still to come in the NEWSROOM, did Pope Francis have a secret meeting

with that Kentucky clerk who refused to issue same-sex marriage licenses? Kim Davis says they did. And she has plenty to say about it. That's next.

[09:09:50]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COSTELLO: Kentucky clerk and controversial same-sex marriage opponent Kim Davis says she not only met with Pope Francis, the Holy Father thanked her. Davis tells "Good Morning America" she was stunned when she first got the call from Vatican officials. She says the meeting took place in Washington while the Pope was in the United States.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

KIM DAVIS, ROWAN COUNTY, KENTUCKY CLERK: He told me before he left, he says stay strong. And that was a great encouragement. Just knowing that the Pope is on track, you know, with what we're doing and agreeing, you know, kind of validates everything. I've weighed the cost. And I'm prepared to do whatever it takes.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COSTELLO: Some are wondering, though, if the pair actually did meet. Check out this confusing non-statement from the Vatican. It says, quote, "We do not confirm or deny the story. There will be no statement."

Davis says, though, she has photographs to prove it.

With me now, Vatican correspondent Delia Gallagher, she's in Rome. So what happened?

DELIA GALLAGHER, CNN VATICAN CORRESPONDENT: Well, what happened is what the Vatican told us this morning. That maybe it happened and maybe it didn't happen. They are not confirming. They are not denying, Carol.

[09:15:03] What we can say is that the Pope in general supports conscientious objectors. So you would say well, why doesn't he come out and just say it one way or another? Probably the Vatican wants to avoid getting involved further in some kind of a high profile debate about the particularities of Kim Davis' situation.

We know Carol, if you remember when the pope was leaving the U.S., he gave an interview on the pal plane and he was asked specifically about the conscientious objection for government officials. That was the explicit question or follow-up question by the journalist. And he said, you know, conscientious objection is a human right. It should be allowed for by law and it includes government officials.

So, the pope, knowing full well the situation of Kim Davis in the states, had he wanted to probably could have taken that moment to discuss further that situation. The fact that he played it very generally suggests that, you know, they just don't want to get involve publicly in some kind of debate with the U.S. on that question right now.

Although when he was in the States, he mentioned quite a number of times about religious freedom and, of course, conscientious objection for the Vatican falls under that category -- Carol.

CAROL COSTELLO, CNN ANCHOR: Well, I'm just curious. Do you think that Kim Davis was supposed to keep the meeting a secret?

GALLAGHER: I don't think that would have been a requirement if the meeting indeed did happen. I think the Vatican -- you know, Pope Francis before has made phone calls from the Vatican that we haven't been able to confirm because the Vatican doesn't want to confirm or deny them. But they have allowed to it play out on the other side.

So, I don't think that the Vatican would have made any particular request that she keep it quiet. I think it's just their political line not to raise the story again as it were and start it all over again. But, you know, if the meeting did happen it was obviously a show of support on the part of the pope.

I mean, keep in mind that when he was in Washington last week, he met with the Little Sisters of the Poor. That's the group of nuns who have healthcare facilities and nursing homes and who are in litigation with the Obama administration over the contraception mandate. Now, it's a slightly different situation from Kim Davis, but it is still conscientious objection.

When the pope met with them and that was not on the official agenda but he did it. And then the papal spokesman announced afterwards that it happened, and he said that was an obvious sign of support on the part of the pope for this group of nuns. So, there are situations which the pope meets with people and the Vatican comes out and says, yes, that is a sign of support.

So, we know that generally he supports the concept of conscientious objection. Again, not confirming or denying this particular meeting. So, that's as far as we can go on that, Carol.

COSTELLO: All right. Delia Gallagher, reporting live from Rome -- thanks so much.

Still to come in the NEWSROOM -- it had been 70 years since Georgia executed a female prisoner, until last night. Not even a plea from Pope Franz could stop it.

Plus, can you hear me now? After the data leaking, former NSA contractor Edward Snowden is tweeting.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[09:22:21] COSTELLO: Despite a last minute plea from the pope, her children and protesters, the state of Georgia has executed the first woman in more than 70 years. Kelly Gissendaner was killed early this morning, her death coming nearly 18 years after her conviction. In 1998, Gissendaner was sentenced to death for convincing her lover to kill her husband.

Pope Francis wanted her life spared. In an open letter on his behalf, an archbishop asked the board to, quote, "commute the sentence to one that would better express both justice and mercy." The board did do not.

Martin Savidge joins me now. He's following the story from Atlanta.

Good morning.

MARTIN SAVIDGE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, Carol.

Seven o'clock Eastern Time was when Kelly Gissendaner was scheduled to die last evening. The hour came and went and there was no announcement from the Georgia Department of Corrections and then we later learned why.

There was a frantic effort that was underway by her legal team appealing to a number of both local and federal courts. They did this multiple times. The process dragged on actually for hours and her execution was delayed to allow the legal course to sort of run all the way through. It eventually did just after midnight when time and hope ran out and the execution was then carried out. A witness described afterwards.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JEFF HULLINGER, MEDIA WITNESS/WXIA TV REPORTER: When all of the witnesses entered the viewing area, Kelly Gissendaner was able to see us and became very, very emotional. She began sobbing, then crying, then sobbing. And she made a statement -- a statement apologizing to an amazing man that lost his life because of her. Also spoke of love to her attorney Susan Casey and her children. Hoped that they found -- would find peace.

And she then began to sing two gospel songs. One, "Amazing Grace." The other was indecipherable.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SAVIDGE: The parents of Kelly Gissendaner's husband, who was the victim in this case, they issued their own statement. They said, "As the murderer, she's been given more rights and opportunity over the last 18 years than she ever afforded to Doug who, again, is the victim here. She had no mercy, gave him no rights, no choices, nor the opportunity to live his life. His life was not hers to take."

Again, that is the statement coming from the parents. They obviously agreed with that sentence.

The controversy, Carol, of course, as you know is the fact that she got death while the co-conspirator, the boyfriend, who actually did the murder, he was given life with the possibility of parole.

[09:25:03] In fact, he could be paroled in as early as seven years, Carol. COSTELLO: Martin Savidge, reporting live for us this morning -- thank

you.

SAVIDGE: You're welcome.

COSTELLO: "Can you hear me now?" That question coming from the official Twitter account of NSA whistleblower Edward Snowden. His online bio reads, "I used to work for the government. Now I work for the public." He's following only one account and, you guess it, that one account is the NSA.

So far, Snowden has nearly 1 million followers. Now, do the math, that's almost 900,000 more followers than the NSA has.

Snowden, who lives in Russia, was welcomed to the Twitter verse by people like astrophysicist Neil deGrasse Tyson. Snowden's response, quote, "Thanks for the welcome and now we've got water on Mars. Do you think they check passports at the border? Asking for a friend."

But not everyone is sending warm wishes. Republican presidential hopeful George Pataki wants Snowden banned from Twitter. "Twitter is a great American company that should not give a platform to terrorists or traitors. Shut down Snowden today", he tweeted.

Joining me now to talk about all of this is the former deputy director for training at the NSA, Cedric Leighton.

Welcome, sir.

CEDRIC LEIGHTON, FORMER DEPUTY DIRECTOR FOR TRAINING, NSA: Thank you, Carol. It's good to be with you this morning.

COSTELLO: It's nice to have you here.

So you are former NSA. Isn't this embarrassing?

LEIGHTON: Well, I guess you could say that, especially when you look at the different numbers of Twitter followers and compare them. But with Snowden's almost 1 million followers you have a situation where people are clearly interested in what he had to say and what he's up to. With the NSA people are look at it as the government bureaucracy and chances are it won't be followed as much.

But it is interesting that he's only following the NSA and no one else at this point?

COSTELLO: Well, he's taunting the NSA. He's poking at them. Do you think he's getting to them?

LEIGHTON: Well, I think, you know, the NSA has some pretty thick skin normally. However, he did do a lot of damage to NSA. And, of course, they are looking at the things he's saying.

One of the things I noted in his tweets was the fact that he's working on some, quote, "secret projects", unquote, with the freedom of press, which is another Twitter handle that is associated with some of his actions.

So, there are a lot of things that NSA and the Department of Justice are looking at. But, you know, at this point in time, I think it is going to be interesting to see how the political dialogue evolves around what he's going to do.

COSTELLO: I just wonder. Do you think that the NSA is meeting about Edward Snowden's Twitter account?

LEIGHTON: I don't think so. I think he would like to think that that's the case. NSA has a deal with a lot of operations and they are probably more worried about what the Russians are doing in Syria right now than they are about Edward Snowden. Although I wouldn't be surprised if the Department of Justice is paying a little attention to it at this point.

COSTELLO: Is it possible to shut him down legally?

LEIGHTON: Not really. Twitter is a platform. It is kind of like the telephone used to be. And it's become ubiquitous all around the world and it's highly unlikely he would be shut down by Twitter, because that would cause such an outcry among a lot of people. Even those opposed to Snowden's viewpoint. It's highly unlikely that Twitter by itself would go ahead and shut it down.

If he's not engaged in anything illegal, if he's not engaged as far as can be seen by twitter and if he's not, you know, fomenting some kind of terrorist upheaval or something like that which I don't think he could do, I doubt very much Twitter would do that.

COSTELLO: All right. Cedric Leighton, thanks for your insight. I appreciate it.

LEIGHTON: You bet, Carol.

COSTELLO: It's a race against time on Capitol Hill today with a deadline for a government shut down rapidly approaching. Lawmakers are rushing to pass a new funding bill. Will they be successful? We'll talk about that, next.

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