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Gun Control Debate; College Shooting Investigation. Aired 3- 3:30p ET

Aired October 02, 2015 - 15:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


[15:00:03]

BROOKE BALDWIN, CNN ANCHOR: Now this.

We are continuing our special live coverage here on CNN. I'm Brooke Baldwin, beginning with new developments of this massacre at this Oregon community college.

Minutes ago, the sheriff in Roseburg, we gave this news conference on the latest updates from these shootings. And he refused to say the name of the gunman who killed those nine people yesterday and wounded some nine others.

But authorities did reveal plenty of details about the shooter's arsenal. An ATF official says investigators recovered 13 weapons at his home and at the scene and that he had used a 14th weapon as a trade in for one of the guns he used at the school.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CELINEZ NUNEZ, ATF: So far, we have recovered 13 weapons. Out of those 13 weapons we currently have in custody, six were recovered at the school, seven were recovered at the shooter's residence. All 14 have been traced to a federal firearms dealer. They are all at different stages currently in the tracing process.

JOHN HANLIN, DOUGLAS COUNTY, OREGON, SHERIFF: Again, you will not hear anyone from this law enforcement operation use his name. I continue to believe that those media and community members who publicize his name will only glorify his horrific actions.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: With me now, I have David Katz, Global Security CEO, who is a federal certified firearms and tactical instructor. He's still with me. Also with us now, CNN's Deborah Feyerick, who has been digging on the investigation side of things, and CNN's Ana Cabrera, who is live there in Roseburg at the public safety center.

So, I want to get to the victims and update on all these survivors in a moment.

But, Deb, let me just turn to you, and we have new information as far as the shooter's movements and a box he apparently handed to something in the midst of all of this. DEBORAH FEYERICK, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: That's what's so crazy

about this is whatever he was doing, if the box contained either documents or information, the gunman clearly wanted people to understand what he was thinking and perhaps even why he did it what he did.

But we're told by law enforcement officials, our justice team is being told that someone was handed a box, one of the victims, and the gunman allegedly said you got to deliver this. Now, we are also learning, our justice team reporting, that in fact there are documents that investigators are now looking at, and in those documents the shooter really portrays an impression of an angry isolated man who can't sustain a relationship and just a racial hatred, actually, of blacks, according to law enforcement officials.

What is so almost curious about all of this is when you go and look at his online profiles, it doesn't necessarily synch up. He describes himself as racially mixed. That's one of the things. He also says that he's looking for a soul mate and he's quiet, but he does better in small groups, but he tends to open up. There are a lot of things investigators are looking at. But this is a critical piece of information because it suggests that while you have the online personality, which does show he was looking at BBC documentaries like "Surviving Sandy Hook," as well as blogging about other recent shootings, he actually speaks out against those shootings.

So, there's really a dichotomy of thought there. And investigators are looking at that, though we do know, Brooke, that his family has said that he did suffer from mental health issues. All of that, they are trying to unravel, but something pushed this man over the edge.

BALDWIN: I want to follow up with you on a lot of the points you just made.

But I do want to go to Oregon to Ana Cabrera, because we just heard from the governor, Governor Brown there in Oregon. We heard from three members of Congress, the county commissioner. What was their message?

ANA CABRERA, CNN CORRESPONDENT: The governor here arrived within hours after the shooting. Today, she's really focusing her message on supporting this community, on talking about the gratitude for all of the outpouring of love they have received here and really focusing her message on trying to lift up the victims and offer support for the families of those victims, along with the survivors of this shooting.

Now, we were also at a press conference with the sheriff and the ATF officials who are part of the investigation just within the last couple hours, learning more about the arsenal, as you mentioned, the weapons used in this crime. I can give you a few more details that we learned from that news conference.

Five of the weapons found on scene of the crime were pistols and there was also a rifle. Alongside that rifle, they found a flak jacket complete with steel plates as well as five magazines. They believe that this gunman wanted a prolonged gunfight and was there to kill as many people as he could, if it were not for the two responding officers who were first to arrive on scene who engaged in gunfire directly with that gunman, killing him.

[15:05:00]

Now, I talked to the president of this community college here, small, rural community college, only has a few hundred full-time students. She talked about just how shocking this has been and how it's really rocked the normal peacefulness around here and how they are trying to make sense of this crime.

The 26-year-old gunman, she said, was not believed to be cur a student at the community college. They are looking into whether he was a past student. But the big question of why were they targeted is still very much unknown -- Brooke.

BALDWIN: Let me just add into that we have just confirmed this shooter did attend El Camino College for two years and apparently no reported incidents with college police during his time there. Just learning that about the shooter.

David Katz, again, I go back to this number, 13, 14. One was a trade- in, weapons. You heard Ana mention the pistols, the rifle, a flak jacket, five magazines. He was ready for a prolonged fight.

DAVID KATZ, FOUNDER AND CEO, GLOBAL SECURITY GROUP: Well, first of all, the issue is not how many guns he has.

You only need -- you're only using one at a time. But it is indicative of the fact that the mind-set is he's waiting for police response, because he knows the school is a gun-free zone. He's not going to encounter resistance there. But he knows also that the police are going to respond.

He appears that he's preparing for a protracted shoot-out with police officers. They did a fantastic -- my complete, my heartfelt gratitude and support goes to those guys who go into that scene, by the way, knowing they are risking never seeing their loved ones either. So, hats off to them. Great job.

But, remember, every time this person bought a firearm, when they check off that form, they are asked a question about their mental health. They are asked a form whether they're using any drugs, either illicit drug or antidepressive medication. They have asking if they have ever been adjudicated mentally defective

We need to make sure people who have this kind of mental illness or issues cannot purchase firearms.

BALDWIN: Their background check, 18 states passed that, state of Oregon.

(CROSSTALK)

KATZ: Yes. Well, the point is getting -- a background check reveal if you have a criminal history. It's very, very rare they come out, well, your doctor told us that you're a schizophrenic.

I don't think that's going to happen with all the HIPAA laws. But there should be some mechanism by which these people at least be put in a system that requires maybe it's not a ban, but it's at least a notation that there's a secondary level of inspection needed before this person is given a firearm.

BALDWIN: You want to add something.

FEYERICK: A couple of things.

Also, Barbara Starr earlier confirmed today that in fact he spent a month in the military in basic training and basically was kicked out because there were issues that the Army couldn't even deal with. He was kicked out. His family has now confirmed in fact that he was dealing with mental health issues.

So, all that being equal, you look and wonder why the mother who was in that house appears to have allowed upwards of 14 guns to be in that home as well, because these guns were purchased we're being told by ATF over a three-year period when the family got to Oregon.

(CROSSTALK)

BALDWIN: And, what, six or seven were found in that apartment.

FEYERICK: And he was carrying six or seven. Seven additional ones were found on campus. So, yes.

KATZ: Well, Adam Lanza's mother got him a rifle. Think of the logic there.

You know you have a troubled individual at home. And you're not only -- not only are you purchasing a firearm, but you're taking it to the range and showing its operation. The family is the first point at which mental health issues need to be addressed. Then we have school and we have doctors. It's the mental health aspect that we're failing on.

BALDWIN: That's your point on having the checks. That's what I kept hearing from this fantastic group Every Town for Gun Control. They're saying the same thing.

You can push back on that. Guns can be bought illegally. But they would say, listen, it's like wearing a seat belt. You're just lessening the odds.

FEYERICK: There's also an issue. Look, you have to -- even with gun control and gun advocates will say, look, it's not firearms that kill people. It's people that kill people.

But the difference is this. You make them widely available and it's not just the good people who are going to register those firearms that are going to get them. It's also people who don't have good intentions. They are also going to have equal access. It takes one moment, it takes sort of one snap to be pushed over the

edge and then it doesn't matter. That's why we were sort of making the point yesterday even though this area is a gun-free zone, that only matters to people who have no intention of carrying a gun.

(CROSSTALK)

FEYERICK: You have to think about that.

BALDWIN: That's exactly right. Quickly.

(CROSSTALK)

KATZ: OK.

Basically, again, the issue is there's no stronger supporter of the Second Amendment than yours truly.

BALDWIN: I know.

KATZ: However, everyone I know is in lockstep with this. It doesn't mean people who are crazy have that right.

There's a due process issue. If you follow due process and make sure a person is either psychologically able to own a firearm or not, and don't -- I don't think it's that hard a deal.

BALDWIN: Congress has to hear that, though. That's the thing.

David Katz, Deborah Feyerick, thank you very much. And thanks to Ana Cabrera with us in Roseburg.

[15:10:03]

In the wake of all these shootings, then you have these tales of heroism emerging, like Chris Mintz is the Army veteran who tried to keep the gunman from entering this one classroom, using his own body to try to block the way. I want to show you some photos here. Here he is with his son. The shooting actually happened on his son's birthday.

Mintz was shot multiple times. Some of those shots actually came up after he looked up at the gunman and said it was his son's birthday. Both of his legs were broken during that attack. His family now has set up this GoFundMe page to help with the physical therapy he will need for quite a while.

Another survivor here of the shooting, Anastasia Boylan, she was shot in her back by a bullet that actually traveled all the way down her spine. And she was down on the ground and he was shouting at her, hey, you blonde. She actually had to play dead to survive. We're hearing from her family and others about the terror on that college campus.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: As he shot the professor point-blank, right, one shot killed him, took him right out of it.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I heard one gunshot and then I looked over outside and people were running away from the building, so I knew exactly what had just happened.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: There's a crack underneath the door and I saw footsteps and shadows.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I just sat under the desk and prayed.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She goes to the door because there's a door connecting our room to their. And she knocked on it and she said, hey, is everyone OK. And then it was just rapid fire.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And others have been injured. And then this man had enough time. I don't know how much time elapsed before he was able to stand there and start asking people one by one what their religion was. Are you a Christian, he would ask them.

If you're a Christian, stand up. And they would stand up and he said, good, because you're a Christian you're going to see God in just about one second. And then he shot and killed them.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: All of my close friends I have called already and they are all safe. So, I'm very grateful for that. I'm just concerned and my heart goes out to all the people who can't say the same.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The range of emotions from disbelief, from anger, from sadness, to resolution. And it's still -- it's less than 24 hours. It's still very raw for a lot of people.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: At this point, I'm not sure how long it will take me before I can go back there. I was almost involved with it. It was right on the other side of the door and on the other side of wall. And it could have been me.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: We have heard from the president of the United States expressing the fact that some people in America have become numb in the wake of these shootings, that this has become routine in America.

Next, I'll speak with a survivor of the Virginia Tech shootings who has made it his life's mission since graduation to bring about change in the United States.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[15:16:54]

BALDWIN: We are at war. Those are the words of the father of Alison Parker, the reporter murdered on live television, following the horrific Oregon community college shooting.

In an op-ed published today, Andy Parker wrote this -- quote -- "We are engaged in a war in this country. It's a war between rational, responsible people and self-interested zealots, a war between good and evil. It's a war to decide whether we will continue to let the senseless tragedy of gun violence continue."

It goes on to talk about the 30,000 families who lose loved ones to the brutality of gun violence each and every year.

And I talked to Andy Parker just two weeks after his daughter's death in this town hall there in Washington, D.C., with 40 people, so-called members of a club no one would ever want to join, the loneliest club, all people touched in some form or fashion by gun violence.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: You have been so vocal since. Have you had a chance to grieve?

ANDY PARKER, FATHER OF ALISON PARKER: Oh, Brooke, I have had plenty of chances. It comes in waves and it's like a roller coaster, but it's doing this and trying to do something without making a change that's really kind of kept me from just completely going to pieces.

Time heals, but there's always going to be a hole in my heart and my soul has been ripped out. But this is what keeps me going.

BALDWIN: I hear you talk about sensible gun legislation. You want to keep guns out of the hands of crazy people. You have said this over and over. What constitutes a win for you here?

PARKER: There's just got to be at least some conversation started where these people -- the congressmen that are close to anything, any change at all to at least come to the table.

And part of why we're here is for this Whatever it Takes rally. I'm going to do whatever it takes, if I have to shame these people. The time has come to stop this insanity.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: Just hours after the shooting in Oregon, an angry and impassioned President Obama challenged the media to compare the number of Americans who have been killed by terrorist attacks vs. the number of gun violence deaths.

And let me show you this. Here it is. And you will see, look at the difference in the numbers. This is from the Centers for Disease Control, the CDC. They are devastating. From 2004 to 2103, 313 died from terrorism-related incidents. That is more than times more than -- were killed by gun violence.

President Obama also told the American people that we're becoming numb, his word, numb, to this type of gun violence.

My next guest is making it his life's mission that we don't. He's Colin Goddard. He was shot four times when he was in French class during the massacre at Virginia Tech back in 2007. He joins me now. Colin, great to have you on. I hate that we're talking because of

what's happened, but it's always a pleasure to have you and thank you so much for participating in the town hall in Washington as well.

COLIN GODDARD, VIRGINIA TECH SHOOTING SURVIVOR: Yes, thanks for having me.

Brooke, I'll be continuing to talk about this issue, to the extent that these situations continue to happen. We have done nothing as a country since the last major shooting. So, we really shouldn't be surprised when the next one occurs.

[15:20:08]

That's the thing that really get me is that you can have these same conversations with media all day long. And I have been having it for years. But really the people who need to do the talking and the people that you need to be asking questions to are people like Congressman Bob Goodlatte of Virginia, who chairs the House Judiciary Committee, who has over -- close to 100 gun bills in his committee that have done absolutely nothing on.

I would ask him, what are we do here? Or John Boehner, who is the speaker of the House, right, outgoing speaker of the House, who now doesn't have to worry about the political craziness that you have to do that and do what's right and actually have a discussion on some of these issues.

Many of these bills, you can bring straight to the floor and have a debate on. That's where I really the focus of a lot of the media attention should be on, the people who are at these leverage points who are bottling up progress.

BALDWIN: Do you think we're numb? Do you think the president was right?

GODDARD: It's incredibly difficult to watch these shootings continue to happen, and then feel like you rinse and repeat with the media cycle over and over again and nothing happens. Right?

But I think every single time something like this happens, more Americans just get fed up and it becomes their own kind of personal tipping point and they get involved and they let their legislator know this is something I care about and I want you to vote on and I want you to do something on.

And so, I think every single time this happens, we get closer to the day where elected officials no longer ignore this issue. And so people are there already and want to get involved with our work. They can text the word now to 877877 and join us at Every Town for Gun Safety at holding our elected officials accountable for the inaction on gun violence that we have to do something about.

BALDWIN: I know you have been banging your firsts ever since you graduated Blacksburg, ever since you graduated Virginia Tech and you have made this it your life's mission. You talk about needing change with members of Congress.

But then you also hear the sheriff from Douglas County, where this mass murder happened at this community college, and he specifically stood up against any sort of gun reform after first graders were murdered in Sandy Hook. He is again standing up against it. He said it offends the constitutional right of his citizens.

If that sheriff was sitting next to you, Colin, what would you say?

GODDARD: I would ask him if he thinks that checking if a person who is about to buy a gun can legally own it is a reasonable, responsible thing to do.

That's the essence of what we're pushing for in background checks. I know that there are so many issues that we have to address in this country.

(CROSSTALK)

BALDWIN: But there are background checks in Oregon. Correct me if I'm wrong. It was the 18th state. Right?

GODDARD: Right, yes, as of August, right.

But thing is, as you brought out -- as you began the segment, you showed how many hundreds, tens of thousands of Americans have been killed by gun violence. We realize that the vast majority of Americans shot and killed every year are not killed in mass shootings.

So, we look at the bigger problem. We understand what can we do to do the greatest number of -- greatest good in keeping guns away from dangerous people and reducing gun deaths and injuries in America, and that's when checking people before they buy a gun makes sense. Right? We should not base our public policy just on the last thing that just happened in the news cycle.

The next shooting that will happen be different in some way. So, we should really take aback and look at the bigger picture. That's when background checks make sense. It made sense last month. Background checks on all sales will make sense next month, next year. Right? Whatever happens doesn't alter that fact. It's still a reasonable thing to do and we have to be focused on getting that done in an election, in a political environment as we're in right now.

BALDWIN: Colin, you know Students for Concealed Carry. That was started immediately after Virginia Tech. Seven states allow concealed weapons on college campuses. Oregon is one of them.

What do you say to someone who feels unsafe at his or her university and wants to bring a gun on campus?

GODDARD: I don't think schools should be forced to allow guns on campus.

And I actually listened to a student who was there on campus that day yesterday and had a concealed firearm with him and was in the next- door building and wanted to react and actually acknowledged that they made the decision not to, because he said police would be on the scene, it would cause more confusion, they might get harmed.

And he made that decision as a concealed carry holder on that campus himself. And I think that there speaks volumes to the idea that the answer to this is not to put more guns in more places of our society, until -- just say there's nothing we can do to keep guns away from dangerous people so we should just allow every good person to shoot the bad person first.

And reality doesn't work like that. I think that particular person who was there yesterday speaks exactly to that issue.

BALDWIN: Colin Goddard from Virginia Tech trying to bring about change ever since, quickly, what was the text?

GODDARD: You can text the word now to 877877 to join us at Every Town for Gun Safety and hold our elected officials accountable for their inaction on gun violence.

[15:25:03]

BALDWIN: Colin Goddard, thank you. Thank you for your voice.

GODDARD: Thanks.

BALDWIN: President Obama expected to hold a news conference any minute now. Live pictures from the White House. No doubt he will be taking some questions after he's finished discussing a major personnel change in the administration. We will watch and wait to see what more he says beyond numbness and routine when it comes to mass murders in this country.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)