Return to Transcripts main page

CNN Newsroom

Flooding Hits Parts of South Carolina; Hurricane Joaquin Threatens U.S. East Coast; Doctors without Borders Facility Attacked in Afghanistan; New Information Surfaces on Oregon School Shooter; Congressman Jason Chaffetz to Run for House Speakership; Clemson Hosts Notre Dame. Aired 10-11a ET

Aired October 03, 2015 - 10:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[10:00:18] CHRISTI PAUL, CNN ANCHOR: The following breaking news, U.S. air strikes in Afghanistan, what may be, quote, "collateral damage" of the bombings as it has been characterized, a hospital run by Doctors without Borders. At least nine are dead and dozens others hurt.

VICTOR BLACKWELL, CNN ANCHOR: New information surfacing about the shooter in that Oregon college campus massacre. School officials now confirm the gunman was a student enrolled in the very class where he opened fire. And, we are learning new you details about the victims.

PAUL: And historic flooding is expected for all of you in the Carolinas. It has already been raining for days. Now the region could get another five to 15 inches of rain. We have an update on evacuations live in the CNN Newsroom.

It is always so good to have your company. Thanks for making time for us. I'm Christi Paul.

BLACKWELL: I'm Victor Blackwell. It's 10:00 here on the East Coast, 7:00 out west. CNN Newsroom begins right now.

Heavy rains, historic flooding, the kind seen every 500 years underway right now in the Carolinas. Look at this video from Charleston. The hazard lights there, but some of them will have to get out of their cars and walk, just stranded there. Roads quickly turning into rivers. And it is becoming more dangerous. States of emergency have been declared in several states. Some people have packed up to find dryer land. And the ground already soaked from weeks of rain may soon have to hold another foot of it with creeks on the rise and storm surges expected.

Let's get now to Nick Valencia. He is out in it, in the area of Charleston, South Carolina. And yes, you are standing right there in the water. Tell us what you are seeing.

NICK VALENCIA, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, Victor. This is the worst of what we have seen so far. You can see this is usually an active intersection here in the city. Behind me, stalled-out cars. This is exactly the type of thing that Governor Nikki Haley warned against. This is exactly what could happen in these flooded intersections.

People are continuing to do it despite the warnings. We just got an update from this Carolina team division. They say more than that has already been impacted by the flooding. Two people spent the night in a Red Cross shelter because they had had to be evacuated from their homes. And the big thing here is that the worst could be yet to come. We heard yesterday from the governor that this is going to be an historic storm, maybe up to 20 inches of rain all across the state of South Carolina. And this rain, this rain has been relentless, and really just miserable conditions here. The streets have been shut down in some areas. There have been very active police presence, urban search and rescue teams. Thousands of them are ready to help out in case the situation gets worse.

But the real big concern here, guys, is that this could get worse and is expected to get worse. Also adding to this is there is a big football game here in South Carolina this weekend. We talked to some local residents. They are still planning on going. That game has not yet been cancelled so far. But people here really just taking it in stride. You see someone here. How is this impacting you? You mind, you are on CNN live here. How is this impacting you? What do you think so far of the storm?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It's pretty amazing. I have never seen water this deep here.

VALENCIA: You are a local here? You live here?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes, I live here.

VALENCIA: And you decided to come check it out. You know, the governor is telling you to stay indoors. Why did you decide to come on out?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Because I live downtown. And they told us to put our cars in the parking garage for free, so I did that and I am walking home.

VALENCIA: All right, well, we hope you stocked up on groceries. Take care. All right, thank you very much. Still lots of smiles here despite this wicked weather that we're seeing in Charleston, guys. Let's send it back to you.

BLACKWELL: All right, Nick Valencia, those cars will be stuck there for some time until that water, I guess, passes, and we know the rain will continue. Nick, thanks.

PAUL: It is good to see that man is taking precautions as he was told to do. As we have shown you several parts of South Carolina, including that area, under water. Flooding has been an issue really for days at this point. Take a look at what drivers have been dealing with. People are trying to get around town. Some walking through neighborhoods, streets are covered with floodwaters. The state is under a state of emergency as Nick was talking about. Right now, Thom Berry with South Carolina Emergency Management

Agency is on the phone with us. And Tom, I'm wondering if you can tell us, what is the state doing right now to help anyone who may be stranded or otherwise having trouble?

THOM BERRY, SOUTH CAROLINA EMERGENCY MANAGEMENT: Good morning, Christi. Right now, what we are doing is making sure that people are aware of the current situation because we do have 34 warnings and advisories that are out across the state for flash flood warnings in seven counties, flood warnings in 14 counties.

[10:05:06] In Horry County we have got at least 100 homes that have been affected by flooding. In Georgetown County we have at least 15 people who have been evacuated.

As you saw in the video from Nick Valencia, in Charleston people are still trying to get around. And one of the things we are trying to encourage people to do is not to drive in to or in those flooded areas because we don't want people to drive around barricades that are posted at or near any flooded streets because the potential there is for those cars to wash out and then become stranded.

PAUL: Which we have seen an awful lot of. What about an interruption of power in some neighborhoods. Have you experienced any of that? And how prepared is the state to move through this whole process as this storm comes in?

BERRY: Christi, we've seen approximately a little under 9,000 homes without power throughout the state. The utility providers are bringing in additional crews from out of state to be on standby to be able to respond to any power outages from downed trees or downed power lines that may take place. We already are getting some reports of downed trees. And of course, that's also going to result in downed power lines as well.

PAUL: Well, best of luck to you, Thom Berry, and all the crews there. We appreciate you keeping us apprised of what's happening. That was South Carolina Emergency Management. Thank you so much.

BLACKWELL: Let's stay in South Carolina. We have more pictures here in Charleston, people up to their knees in the water there. The storm hasn't even come up close to the coast yet. The drivers here, as Tom said, you should stay out of this water. Do not drive on flooded roads. You don't know if the road is still there or if there is something under the water. But these drivers tried it and they had to stop. Some people had to be rescued from those cars. So where is hurricane Joaquin right now and what will the impact be of that storm?

PAUL: CNN Meteorologist Allison Chinchar has been tracking this extreme weather all morning for us. And we are seeing what's happening on parts of the East Coast, but help us understand where this is going to go?

ALLISON CHINCHAR, CNN METEOROLOGIST: Yes, that's right, because even if you don't live in the Carolinas, if you live anywhere along the East Coast, you want to be paying attention to this because it is going to begin to shift.

Right now we have the low that's sitting right outside of Charleston. That's not the hurricane. The hurricane is a little farther out. But the two are working together. It is the combination of the two that is making this such a bad storm.

Now, what happens is you have those strong winds pushing the water inland into parts of Charleston, into the Charleston Harbor, and it acts like a funnel. It all has to come in in such a tight area. So you get too much water in a small channel that can't handle all of that.

In addition to that you have the high tide that's expected today around 1:00 in the afternoon. So it's not just the rain that's coming down from the sky. It's the water that will be coming into the harbor in addition to the high tide as well.

Here is a look at some of the estimates we have already seen so far today. This is not forecast. This is what we have already seen. You can see a lot of areas, four, six, eight inches of rain from Charleston up to Wilmington and even along the southern outer banks.

Now, again, as I mentioned, you are going to get more on top of this. That's why we have the flood watches in green and even some flash flood warning into downtown Charleston where they have had some water rescues already.

Here's a look at this. Again, notice this whole purple area. That's a minimum of 10 inches, a couple those white spots you see there, that's up to 20 inches of rain. Again, so this is what we expect to have when it's all said and done throughout the weekend.

But as the storm continues to track off to the northeast it brings very gusty winds to places like Boston, New York, D.C., 35 to 45-mile-per-hour winds. Make sure your flights may not be delayed due to some of those heavy winds.

Take a look at this picture. This was sent to us by CNN meteorologist, Derrick Van Dam. He was actually on one of the hurricane hunter reconnaissance flights out there and he's actually looking down into the eye wall because it is still a very impressive story. Take a look at this. Again, it is expected to weaken, now just a category three. We will be down to a category one in just about 48 hours. But even though it pushes away, it's still going to push a lot of that moisture, Victor and Christi, into parts of East Coast over the next couple of days. So it looks bad on the video, but it is not over yet. We still have a couple of days. People need to still be vigilant.

PAUL: Very good to know.

BLACKWELL: All right, Allison Chinchar, thank you so much. We will check back.

We are also following breaking news in Afghanistan, nine dead, dozens wounded in air strikes at a trauma center run by Doctors without Borders. Why the U.S. is now looking into whether an American gunship is responsible for this bombing.

Also, we are learning more about the victims in that deadly shooting on an Oregon college campus. A mother told us how she found out about her son.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I found out that there had been a shooting and it had happened in the writing class. My son was in the writing class. I knew he was in the writing class.

[10:10:00] When I found that out, I -- I just prayed that he was all right. I saw some headlights come on.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BLACKWELL: We're following breaking news this morning out of Afghanistan involving suspected U.S. air strikes that impacted a hospital trauma center here. The U.S. military is investigating whether an American AC-130 gunship firing at the Taliban was responsible for what happened to what you're seeing on your screen. This is video of this trauma center after the bombing. You see the charred windows there, maybe the glow of the flames still burning inside.

Nine staff workers from Doctors without Borders were killed. At least 37 people injured. Reports say bombed reigned down for an hour while frantic staff phoned military officials at NATO and Kabul and in Washington. More than 100 patients and 80 staff are in the hospital. And the A group said they had warned U.S. and Afghan authorities of the hospital's location ahead of time.

Let's bring in CNN International Diplomatic Editor Nic Robertson. He's in Paris. Chris Frates is standing by in Washington. Nick, I want to start with you. What else are you hearing about this bombing?

NIC ROBERTSON, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL DIPLOMATIC EDITOR: Well, we know that the Taliban had come into town on Monday, that Afghan national army forces had been fighting to drive them out. They had U.S. advisers, NATO advisers on the ground with them earlier in the week. Airstrikes had been called in.

What was originally described by Doctors without Borders as an aerial bombardment on that facility, they say that they had given the GPS coordinates five days ago, as recently as five days ago to both Kabul and Washington. When this aerial bombardment happened, they called to Kabul and Washington. They say after they called in it took over 30 minutes for it to stop.

[10:15:00] What we do know about this type of aircraft and the way it is used in combat with these rapid fire, heavy caliber, automatic weapons mounted on the side of this aircraft that will fly low over a battlefield, it will target troops, Taliban out in the open. The damage that we see on the hospital, the fire coming out from the inside of it, could be symptomatic of strikes from that type of weapon. Unlike if it had been hit by a larger bomb, we would have expected to have seen parts of walls, perhaps knocked down, blown apart. Instead we see windows blown out, flames inside the building, smoke damage, that sort of thing.

But what MSF are saying is they are shocked by this. MSF is based here, was originated in France. The French government is calling for an investigation, the U.S. military calling for an investigation. So a lot of questions being raised.

However, one thing is very clear that wasn't clear to us before, and that is the scale and level of involvement of the U.S. military backing the Afghan national army in a fight that the Afghan national army is supposed to be leading against the Taliban to defeat the Taliban. Yet what we are seeing clearly here is the level of military support that the Afghan army here has required in the battlefield to try to beat the Taliban. And it is not a battle they have been able to win decisively over the period of a week when by force of numbers they should have been able to do that. Victor?

BLACKWELL: All right, Nic Robertson in Paris. I want to turn now to Chris Frates in Washington. As we come to you, I want to hear from our Pentagon correspondent, Chris, who reported earlier about the bombing and then we'll talk on the other side.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BARBARA STARR, CNN PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT: U.S. military officials are investigating the possibility it was a U.S. Air Force AC-130 gunship. And it was in the area firing at Taliban positions. Now, the AC-130 gunship is very precise. It has onboard guns. They aim straight at essentially enemy personnel positions. So it is very precise. It is able to stay up in the air quite a while. There was an AC-130 in the area according to military reports. And now they are investigating whether this is the aircraft that may, may have been involved in the attack.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLACKWELL: Thanks to Barbara Starr for that. We know, Chris, that the U.S. military is early on in this investigation. But what's the reaction thus far to this bombing?

CHRIS FRATES, CNN INVESTIGATIONS: Well, I'll tell you, Victor, after our Barbara Starr talked about that this morning, the army released an updated statement. And that statement read like this. They said U.S. forces conducted an air strike in Kunduz city at 2:15 local time today against individuals threatening the force. The airstrike was conducted by a manned, fixed wing aircraft. This incident is under investigation. So that fits with what Barbara Starr reported earlier on our end this morning.

We have also reached out to the White House and the state department. But right now they are letting the military do the talking. But we did hear from the U.S. embassy in Afghanistan. And they put out a statement that read, quote, "The U.S. embassy mourns for the individuals and families affected by the tragic incident at Doctors without Borders hospital and for all those suffering from the violence in Kunduz. Doctors without Borders performs heroic work throughout the world including in Afghanistan, and our thoughts and prayers are with their team at this difficult moment.

So that's what we have so far, Victor. Still looking to get more reactions and statements as the day wears on here.

BLACKWELL: Chris, an important detail here that Doctors without Borders says that it notified U.S. officials in Kabul of their location days ago.

FRATES: That's exactly right. In fact, Doctors without Borders said the bombing continued for more than 30 minutes after they notified military officials that they were under attack. And the group said that all parties to the conflict, including in Kabul and Washington, were clearly informed of the precise location of its facilities as recently as Thursday. They gave the GPS location to officials so they would know where the hospital is. So that's a big question about what was the confusion, what was the mix up. And those are the kinds of things we are looking into today, Victor.

BLACKWELL: Chris Frates for us in Washington. Let's expand the conversation now. Christi?

PAUL: Yes, with CNN counterterrorism analyst and former CIA official Philip Mudd here. Philip, thank you so much for being with us. I would like you to weigh in on that, the 30 minutes that transpired, the precision of this particular aircraft that they are talking about, that it is very precise. How soon do you think it will be before the military will be able to determine if it was, indeed, an accidental bombing by the U.S. military?

[10:20:00] PHILIP MUDD, CNN COUNTERTERRORISM ANALYST: I think they shouldn't take too long. It will take a day or two. But the finger pointing now is too soon. My experience in situations like this is the first information is almost invariably erroneous.

We have a tragedy here. Doctors without Borders is a terrific organization. But remember, they are in the front lines, they are right in between the Taliban and other fighters. So I can see where they might be in a firing zone. The question, as you rightly raised, is whether they provided the GPS information early enough to prevent this. But right now I don't think we have enough information to make a decision. It is not clear to me what's happening here yet. Today or tomorrow, we should know.

PAUL: What about the Taliban? We understand they are hiding amongst civilians there in Kunduz. We understand that there was fighting almost at the gates of this hospital.

MUDD: I think this is one of the big problems we face here. Let's look at the small problem and the big problem that Afghanistan is having with the Taliban. The Taliban is representative of a proportion of the Afghan population. One of the reasons the fighting is difficult is in the daytime the Taliban might be around villages. At nighttime they will go out to fight. So you never know who is who.

The bigger problem though is, and this is really tragic, before 9/11, the Taliban owned let's say 85, 90 percent of territory in Afghanistan. The real success of the fall of 2001 into the winter of 2001 and 2002 was the rapidity with which American special forces, the CIA, and the Afghans rooted out the Taliban. Now here we are 14 years later, and we are seeing in Kunduz city and elsewhere in Afghanistan the Taliban, as American forces and NATO draw back, the Taliban slowly moving back in. It's a tragedy for a country that's had decades of civil war.

PAUL: Is that why the U.S. is still there in the capacity of helping Afghan forces? How prepared, how capable do you think Afghan forces are?

MUDD: You have to draw a parallel I think with Iraq. You have looked at when American forces have redeployed out, when the training programs have declined, when American front line troops disappear, the forces in Afghanistan and Iraq have proven that they are not capable of confronting these insurgencies.

This is a pretty simple problem. If you draw out the westerners, who are sometimes at the pointy end of the spear because they can bring fire power more accurately, the local forces don't have the capability and sometimes the political will to continue to fight. I think the Afghans are going to have a real struggle defending against the Taliban. And if I were in Vegas betting, I'm going to tell you something. The Taliban in some provinces will prevail over the long- term. They are not going to be rooted out.

PAUL: All right, Philip Mudd, we always appreciate your insight, sir. Thank you for being here.

MUDD: Sure.

BLACKWELL: Still to come, we are learning more about the shooter in the Oregon college massacre and the weapons he used to carry out that attack.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[10:26:58] BLACKWELL: Australian officials say a deadly shooting outside a police station was a terror attack. Exclusive footage obtained by CNN affiliate Seven News shows Farhad Jabar Khalil Mohammad opening fire in the street. He was 15 years old. He killed one civilian police worker before he was shot and killed at the scene.

PAUL: The death toll from a massive landslide in Guatemala is rising. Officials say at least 26 people now have died. The side of the hill crashed down on homes and dozens more are feared dead as well because as many as 600 people are still missing.

And the University of Louisville is investigating allegations that a former men's basketball staff member paid escorts to dance and have sex with players and recruits. According to Yahoo! Sports the book was offered by a self-described Madame. That's where the claims comes from. She claims the former directory of basketball operations spent more than $10,000 on strippers and prostitutes over a four year period. Now head coach Rick Pitino says he tried to look into the matter but was, quote, "immediately shut down" by the University compliance department.

BLACKWELL: New developments in the Oregon shooting and that shooter's connection to the college. Investigators are revealing he owned more than a dozen weapons, also learning new details about the victims. It's all coming up in a live report.

Also, a new candidate surfacing in the race for House speaker, but does this representative, the oversight committee chair, have a real shot?

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[10:32:14] PAUL: Here's a look at some of the stories that we are watching. Take a look at this video in to CNN. The U.S. military investigating whether an American gunship firing on the Taliban did this, ended up hitting a hospital and killing nine aid workers. At least 37 were injured in this strike in the northern Afghanistan town of Kunduz. And the aide group, Doctors without Borders, says more of its staff there is still unaccounted for at this hour, and the casualties, they believe, could grow.

The search for a U.S. flight cargo ship that lost communication in the Bahamas is resuming today. The Alfaro went missing after it ran into hurricane Joaquin. And 28 Americans are on board. The Coast Guard says it got a report that the ship had lost propulsion and it was taking on water, that was Thursday, but that the flooding had been contained. However, nothing has been heard from them since. We know planes are in the air right now looking.

BLACKWELL: There are new details this morning about the man who shot and killed nine people at a community college in the pacific northwest. School officials are now confirming that the gunman was enrolled in the Umpqua Community College in the very class where he started shooting. We are also hearing new information about the firearms the shooter used to carry out this attack. Investigators say 13 weapons were linked to this gunman, all of them purchased legally. Dan Simon is live in Roseburg following this story. Dan, what else have you learned this morning?

DAN SIMON, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hi, Victor. First of all, I just want to explain where I am. You can see this yellow crime scene tape. We are on the perimeter of the campus. At this point the campus is still closed. There won't be any classes next week as this investigation rolls on. We can tell you that authorities did recover weapons at the school. They found six of them here. They found seven more at the home that he shared with his mother.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Dispatch as many ambulances as possible to this incident. We have upwards of 20 victims. SIMON: Chilling new details this morning in the Oregon college

massacre. The gunman came heavily armed, prepared to kill as many as possible.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Exchanging shots with him. He is in a classroom.

SIMON: Investigators say the gunman brought a steel-plated flak jacket, multiple pistols, and a rifle.

CELINEZ NUNEZ, ATF, SEATTLE DIVISION: Six were recovered at the school. Seven were recovered at the shooter's residence along with five magazines.

SIMON: Nine were killed and nine others wounded when the 26-year-old who attended the college walked into his own English classroom and opened fire. In the middle of the rampage the gunman handed his writings to a survivor to give to police according to sources. In those pages the shooter rambled about his hatred toward black men and how he was frustrated about being a virgin, unable to find a girlfriend.

[10:35:04] UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Somebody is outside one of the doors.

SIMON: Why the shooter targeted Umpqua Community College is still unclear. He lived nearby in this apartment complex with his mother, who was reportedly fiercely protective of him. His family has been interviewed by investigators and CNN has learned the shooter suffered mental health issues.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Shocked, shocked is all I can say.

SIMON: Meanwhile, we are learning more about the victims of the shooting who range in age from 18 to 67. Among the dead, Lawrence Levine, assistant professor of English, Quinn Glen Cooper, who loved dancing and voice acting, and Lucero Alvarez. She apparently wanted to become a pediatric nurse.

GOV. KATE BROWN, (D) OREGON: One person's deranged act may have indeed broken all of our hearts, but he cannot prevent our hearts from growing back bigger and stronger.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

SIMON: Well, one thing that is important to note here is that the shooter seemed to crave the publicity that would come with committing this mass atrocity. This may be a telling quote from some of his writings. He wrote, quote, "Seems the more people you kill, the more you are in the limelight." And that is precisely the reason why you won't hear the sheriff utter the shooter's name. Victor?

BLACKWELL: So many have decided not to use his name or show his photograph beyond the sheriff. Dan Simon of course in Roseburg. Dan, thanks.

PAUL: Let's bring in clinical psychiatrist Mark Goulston. Dr. Goulston thanks for being with us. You know, a lot of people have been looking at this and taking issue with mental illness and that characterization being attached immediately to a situation like this. In fact, Arthur Chu in Salon.com wrote "Claims that people who have mental illness are far more often the victim of violence than the perpetrator." Is it fair to use this characterization right off the bat?

MARK GOULSTON, PSYCHIATRIST: No. It is human because people want to distance themselves from these people. I'm a former hostage negotiation trainer and a suicide expert. And most of my career I've hacked into people's personalities to diffuse them from their inside- out. And I think what we need to do is find out how and why people who, let's say, aren't born to kill, who aren't born to be evil, do evil acts.

And I think one of the reasons they do that, and I'm actually co- writing a book that's going to be tentatively called "Inside the Mind of a School Shooter" about a person who 25 years ago had guns all set in high school, and then five days before, he had a religious conversion. And he has never told anyone except his wife. And we are going to get that story out. And I am really understanding him from the inside-out. For people who don't want just transaction, what are we going to do to stop it? I think a great way to understand this, if you pardon me using a prop here, but if you think that we're born, this is our brain, like a Rubik's cube. Then you get bad genetics. And then you get divorce. And then you get peers picking on you. And then you get humiliation. You get insults. You get people laughing at you. And then what happens is this is what your mind is.

PAUL: Yes, but, OK, so my question is, you are saying that our minds get like that due to societal influences?

GOULSTON: Well, there is genetics, what we are raised by in our family, often when you see divorce there are all kinds of conflicts, societal influences. And plus many of them have had learning challenges. And so that means they couldn't process things, and so the insults, they could defend themselves less.

And then I think what happens is your brain on rage is like this. And that's why you become a person who is on a mission. And when we hear about him not showing any mercy, it's because he found a way to go from a stray dog to a lone wolf to a man on a mission who is seeking, this is the revenge of the nobody.

PAUL: I got you. Dr. Mark Goulston, so appreciate you coming on and sharing your insight, and looking forward to that book. It sounds like something that would certainly open a lot of eyes possibly. Thank you. We appreciate your time.

GOULSTON: It is going to save lives. Thank you.

PAUL: Thank you.

Turbulent times may be ahead in the race for House speaker. Find out which congressman is now predicted to challenge House majority leader and potentially stir things up among the GOP.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[10:43:28] BLACKWELL: There may soon be a new candidate in the race for House speaker. According to CNN sources, Representative Jason Chaffetz of Utah, also the House Oversight and Government Reform chair, will launch a bid. Conservatives have been reluctant to coronate House Majority Leader Kevin McCarthy to replace John Boehner. Political anchor for New York One News Errol Louis joins us now to talk about it. He has got a week to get this done. Can he get it done, talking about Chaffetz?

ERROL LOUIS, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Chaffetz, he wouldn't try, I assume, if he didn't think that there was something waiting at the end for him, either an outright victor or perhaps some maneuvering to become the next majority leader. There are a lot of reasons to run other than winning the big prize. And this is a group that by definition likes to negotiate in backrooms. So there is going to be a lot of negotiating going on, and we will see what kind of strength he has.

But it is a mistake to think it is sort of all or nothing with regard to the speakership. If he makes a strong showing or if he bargains for a way to maybe stop short of really forcing a destructive fight, Jason Chaffetz could come out of this very well placed.

BLACKWELL: Part of the reason he has a shot at the speakership if not one of the other leadership positions is because of some comments made by now House Majority Leader Kevin McCarthy as it relates to Hillary Clinton and Benghazi, the committee. Let's listen and then we'll talk about his run for the speakership.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

[10:45:00] REP. KEVIN MCCARTHY, (R) HOUSE MAJORITY LEADER: Everybody thought Hillary Clinton was unbeatable, right? But we put together a Benghazi special committee, a select committee. What are her numbers today? Her numbers are dropping. Why? Because she is un-trustable. But no one would have known any of that had happened had we not put that together.

SEAN HANNITY, FOX NEWS HOST: I give you credit for that.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLACKWELL: Many House Republicans are livid because it gives Democrats some ammunition to call this whole thing political. Was this a fatal mistake?

LOUIS: Well, look, first of all, people are right to be livid, whether you are a Republican, a Democrat, in Congress or out of Congress. What he is basically saying in the clip you just played, Victor, is that they willingly and gleefully used the government process for specifically political ends. Now, that is improper at best, arguably illegal depending on how far you push and what evidence would support it. But this is not something people want to be associated with. And this is not something that I think a majority of his conference wants to be associated with, somebody, you know, their leader going on national television and gleefully talking about how they use government in order to pursue political ends.

So it has hurt him, possibly not fatally because the reality is they have been locked in the Republican conference under this Hastert rule which has probably done more damage both to the party and to the country than people have generally recognized. The Hastert being, named after a former speaker of the House, that nothing will come to the floor, nothing will have the support of the speaker unless a majority of the conference supports it, in other words turning the position from the constitutional one of speaker of the House of Representatives into the speaker of the conference. And you cannot govern that way. I think we've seen abundant evidence that that's true. I don't know if Representative McCarthy understands that or not. But I think that's really what underlies the current debate.

BLACKWELL: The last bit of sound I want to play, Chairman Chaffetz speaking about McCarthy's comments earlier this week on CNN.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. JASON CHAFFETZ, (R) UTAH: I don't think it is an absolute terrible statement. I don't think it's a fair --

WOLF BLITZER, CNN HOST, "THE SITUATION ROOM": He should apologize?

CHAFFETZ: I think he should apologize. I think they should withdraw it. I think it's an absolute inaccurate statement as what we are doing and have done in the work on Benghazi.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLACKWELL: Larger question beyond the race here, what does this mean for the hearing coming up?

LOUIS: The hearing was going to be a media circus no matter what, Victor, as you know. When they have Hillary Clinton come in in the middle of a presidential race with so much at stake, it wasn't going to get so nice.

So now I think it is going to be a full-on circus. And we'll see if the members are going to be a little bit chastened by this, because there is a certain ugliness to all of this that the country has indicated, in part through the polls in the presidential race, that they are disgusted. When people say they are disgusted with what's going on in Washington, this is exactly what they are talking about. Folks are out there hurting. We have got mass shootings going on at a pace of more than one a day. And people are playing political games. It makes no sense.

BLACKWELL: Errol Lewis, always good to have you.

LOUIS: Good to see you, Victor.

BLACKWELL: We'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

[10:51:58] DR. SANJAY GUPTA, CNN CHIEF MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: Erica Moore, Julia and Eugene Smookler, Chip Greenidge, Linda Garrett, and Robert Lyle, six participants came together in January to start their journey. They were new to the sport, and over the course of eight long months would learn to swim, bike, and run, all in preparation for the Nautica Malibu Triathlon.

With their newfound skills and the voice of their coach, April Gellatly, cheering them on, they headed back home to train. In May they came together again in southern California for a week of hardcore training.

JULIA SMOOKLER, FIT NATION TRIATHLETE: The experience has been amazing. Eating habits, we try to help each other out with that. Meal planning, we have been able to give each other the time to really support each other.

LINDA GARRETT, FIT NATION TRIATHLETE: I tried running today. It is a setback. I will finish the race. I will finish the race.

ERICA MOORE, FIT NATION TRIATHLETE: I really got in the zone and I really feel like I awakened the triathlete within myself.

CHIP GREENIDGE, FIT NATION TRIATHLETE: I'm going to do it. That's what I put my mind to do, and anything I put my mind to do, I do.

GREENIDGE: I can't believe I'm doing this.

GUPTA: And now it is game time. The half mile swim in the Pacific, 18 miles of biking on the Pacific Coast Highway, a four mile run, and then the finish line in triumph.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It feels great.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It was incredible.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I did it, I did it.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Can't wait to sign up for my next one, man.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: This is a thrilling feeling.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I am so proud of my wife. Thanks CNN and Sanjay Gupta. You made it happen for us.

GUPTA: Dr. Sanjay Gupta, CNN, reporting.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

PAUL: I want to show you some new information we're getting in about that breaking news out of Afghanistan this morning. We now know at least the 16 people have been killed in the air strike on the Doctors without Borders hospital in Kunduz. That includes nine of its staffers, seven patients, including three children, and 37 others were injured. More than 100 patients and 80 staff were in the hospital when this bombing took place. The U.S. military is investigating the incident and trying to discern whether an AC-130 gunship targeting Taliban fighters may have hit the trauma center by mistake.

BLACKWELL: Let's talk about this dangerous weather, flooding not seen in more than a century. It's going to be a pretty dangerous couple of days along the East Coast. Next hour, the governor of North Carolina will address the situation and we will bring that to you live.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[10:58:33] BLACKWELL: Well, you know, the East Coast is bracing for more flooding rain. The college football fans, they are getting ready for a huge game between a couple of top-ranked teams. Coy Wire is joining us now live from Clemson, South Carolina, for tonight's Clemson-Notre Dame showdown. Even in all this rain, it is still going to go on.

COY WIRE, CNN SPORTS ANCHOR: It's still going to go on, Victor. Huge game. There's been huge rains. It has finally stopped for just one moment. The rain is certainly going to have an effect on the game in Clemson. It's going to impact the game. There's a pair of unbeaten teams, right, so 80,000 people are going to fill Death Valley just behind me. It could be up to 100,000 more outside the stadium. They picked up about 2.5 inches of rain over the last two days, so the grass where the parking lots are, a lot of them are not limited. Clemson officials encouraging fans to carpool to the game.

Now, on the field, this is just the third meeting all time between these two powerhouse programs each having won one game. Notre Dame, they have had a lot of adversity. They've lost several key players to injuries. Now they are going to have the toughest matchup yet. Tickets to this game are in high demand. Earlier this week, Coach Dabo Swinney said that he has heard from people he hadn't heard from in years. He couldn't even get Jesus a ticket. Here is more.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DABO SWINNEY, CLEMSON FOOTBALL HEAD COACH: I've been out of tickets since the summer. I mean, this is a game people have kind of had circled for a long time. We haven't played Notre Dame in almost 40 years. And the last time they came here in 1977, they had this guy named Joe Montana that brought them back right at the end and stole victory from the Clemson Tigers of 1977.

[11:00:04] So people at Clemson don't forget.

(END VIDEO CLIP)