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States Of Emergency In Carolinas, Virginia, New Jersey; Dangerous Flooding And Rain Threatens East Coast; Investigators Find 13 Weapons Linked To Gunman; U.S. Investigating If Airstrike Hit Afghan Hospital; Russia Continues Airstrikes in Syria; The National Gun Debate. Aired 12-1p ET

Aired October 03, 2015 - 12:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[12:01:01] SUZANNE MALVEAUX, CNN GUEST ANCHOR: Hello. Thanks for joining me. I'm Suzanne Malveaux. Fredricka Whitfield is off today. Hurricane Joaquin now back to a very dangerous Category 4. It is drenching rains already being felt on the east coast.

Here is what it looks like right now. This is Myrtle Beach, South Carolina. Millions of people across the Carolinas expected to be affected. This is what Charleston Emergency Management officials said in a news conference. This was just a little bit ago.

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UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is a very serious event and everyone in the area needs to take it that way. They need to take this seriously, because there's a potential for a very dangerous and life-threatening situations to occur. So as the mayor said, if you do not have to frequent out into the area today, please stay at home.

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MALVEAUX: South Carolina, North Carolina, New Jersey, and Virginia have declared states of emergency. More heavy flooding could hit those states and others up the east coast.

Want to bring in our Nick Valencia, live in Charleston, South Carolina. Nick, it looks like the rain is, in fact, accumulating, getting a lot deeper where you are.

NICK VALENCIA, CNN CORRESPONDENT: The rain has not stopped so far, since this morning, Suzanne, really since the last few days here in Charleston. And for how miserable this weather is, we really have seen these tremendous gestures of human kindness.

It started this morning when we saw a pair of strangers, they told us, push these cars stranded -- there were a few more earlier this morning. They pushed them out and pushed the occupants to safety.

Then later we saw, last hour we introduced you to a couple that was here from a couple of hours away. They came to help with the rescue mission with their kayak and paddleboard. And in the last few minutes, the most sincere gesture of kindness by the National Guard here. There was a stranded wedding party, Suzanne, on their way, not making their ceremony, it was going to happen at about 1:00 p.m., about a mile and a half from their ceremony, stuck here under this awning.

When the National Guard saw them, took them by pairs and took them and drove them to that wedding ceremony venue. The groom from Kentucky, the bride from Detroit, they have no ties to Charleston, but they thought it would be a pretty place to get married.

Local and state officials have said, this is a very serious situation. They're asking those to shelter in place, those people here in the city, to stock up on groceries and you can see how much the rain has inundated these usually very busy streets.

We hope that people will heed the guidance of the governor and other local and state officials. Stay inside. This state expected to get about 20 inches over rain over the course of the next three days and the worse is still to come. High tide expected with more bands of rain around 1:00 p.m. Eastern.

MALVEAUX: Nick, the wedding goes on and that's great. Some people are out there because they need to be out there. They've got to get married. This is their day! Good for them. Great story, Nick. We'll get back to you in a little bit.

North Carolina's governor, Pat McCrory, he said in a news conference, this is in the last hour, that his state is bracing for heavy flooding. And Governor McCrory is joining us now by phone from Raleigh. So Governor, thank you very much for taking the time.

I know you have a lot of work to do this morning, but what are you expecting later today in terms of which areas are going to be hardest hit?

GOVERNOR PAT MCCRORY, NORTH CAROLINA (via telephone): Well, most of our concern is those areas closest to the South Carolina border. Sadly, South Carolina, which we wouldn't have anticipated less than 48 hours ago, is going to get hit the hardest due to this very stagnant storm, which is impacted by the hurricane going off the coast, which was very good news for North Carolina, especially in the outer banks area, closer to Virginia.

But we're south of Wilmington, is where we're having some flooding. We have an evacuation of a couple hundred people in the calabash area, a well-known tourist and fishing destination, and several hundred people had to evacuate there.

We have a flash flood warning at Pigeon River in Haywood County, which is right near the South Carolina border. And also to the western part of our state near Asheville West, which borders the South Carolina, Tennessee and Georgia borders.

There's a little part of North Carolina that jets up there, the French Broad River, we do have a flash flood warning, also. [12:05:05] We just also got a flash flood warning on the Catawba River, which is up in the Piedmont Foothills between Charlotte and the mountains.

But we don't anticipate getting anything hit like South Carolina, it looks like is going to get hit with heavier rain. Of course, a lot of our water goes into that state from those rivers.

MALVEAUX: Yes, we're looking at some extraordinary pictures, governor, as we talk to you. And there was an emergency response official that said, 400 to 500 people were evacuated in Brunswick just last night. Can you tell us more about the status of those people, those folks?

MCCRORY: The good news is, we're not exactly -- we only had, I think, less than ten people in a shelter. So most of them seemed to have found quarters outside of a school that we had as a shelter so that's the good news.

And so most of those people who were evacuated are finding places to go to and we -- and that area of the state near the coastal areas, there's no area for the water to run off. There's no river for it immediately to go to.

So we're having some water issues on our roads and in our homes, but, again, nothing like we're seeing, just a bit further south down in Charleston.

MALVEAUX: Sure. And it's such good news that people do have places to go. Whether it's their relatives or family and friends, but we are hearing that 17,000 people are without power and that could be really a difficult thing to do when you get a lot of people in those homes, huddled together, and there's no electricity. Do we have a sense of when that power might be restored?

MCCRORY: Actually, the power across our state has been restored pretty quickly, but it's sporadic outages due to the rain soaking the grounds and most of the power outages are due to trees tipping over, getting to the roots due to the saturated ground.

And that's happening across the state, in the Piedmont, in Charlotte, and in other areas. But regarding the volume of power outages, it's not a lot higher than it normally is during a storm.

So we in North Carolina are still very, very lucky although the next 24 hours will make a difference on how much more saturated the ground will become.

The other area that most people should be talking about, that they aren't, but our farmers are impacted by this also, the peanut farmers, sweet potato farmers, cotton farmers, their crops -- we're very concerned about their crops being underwater and they could lose a whole year of investment that they've made in these crops.

It's right at the worst time of our season. So, we have to put also media focus on the livelihood of a lot of farmers and also the food supply that they help out the entire nation with.

MALVEAUX: Sure.

MCCRORY: So they're there -- we're going to really get an evaluation of that, once this rainfall ends, but the timing couldn't have been worse for this rain although it could have been much worse, had that hurricane shifted more toward the west.

MALVEAUX: That's right. That's right. It's certainly kind of a mixed curse and a blessing if you think about it that way. North Carolina Governor, Pat McCrory, thank you so much for taking the time. And we wish you and the residents there safety and good recovery.

MCCRORY: Thank you. We've been in touch with Nikki Haley, too. We're good friends and partners and we've offered any assistance. We always help each other along these border states.

MALVEAUX: That's what you need. Thank you so much, Governor. Appreciate it.

MCCRORY: Thank you very much.

MALVEAUX: Thank you. Coming up, we remember the victims of this week's tragic shooting in Oregon. And we'll hear from some family members for the first time and we're going to speak with Roseburg, Oregon Mayor Larry Rich. We're going to ask him about the ongoing investigation and really just how close-knit this time is coping now.

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[12:11:57]

MALVEAUX: We turn now to the horrific mass shooting at Umpqua Community College in Oregon. We are learning more about the most important part of the story, and that, of course, the people. The nine people who went to campus that day and never came home.

We're now hearing from some of the families of the victims, after members of Oregon State Police Department read their statements about their loved ones.

Lucas Eibel was just 18 years old. He was studying chemistry and loved volunteering at animal shelters.

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SGT. CARI BOYD, OREGON STATE POLICE: We have been trying to figure out how to tell everyone how amazing Lucas was, but that would take 18 years.

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MALVEAUX: Lucero Alcaraz, 19, wanted to be a pediatric nurse or a doctor. She was in the honors program on a full scholarship. Jason Dale Johnson was 34. He was proud to be a Christian and he had just recently enrolled in school. Lawrence Levine taught at UCC. He was teaching the class where the shooting took place. He was 67 years old. Kim Saltmarsh Dietz was 59. Her daughter is also a student at UCC, but was unharmed.

Treven Taylor Anspach, he is the son of a local firefighter. His family said he was always positive and looked for the best in life. Rebecka Ann Carnes, 18 years old, had just started school and a new job. Her cousin wrote on Facebook, this isn't supposed to be how life works.

Sarena Dawn Moore, 44 years old, was a member of the Seventh Day Adventist Church. Her pastor said one of her last posts on Facebook expressed her desire to stand up for Jesus and Christianity.

Quinn Cooper, just 18, was attending his fourth day of college. He and his brother, Cody, were inseparable.

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BOYD: I don't know how we're going to move forward with our lives without Quinn. Our lives are shattered beyond repair. We send our condolences to all of the families who have been so tragically affected by this deranged gunman. No one should ever feel the pain that we are feeling.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MALVEAUX: I want to bring in our team coverage on the ground in Roseburg, our Sara Sidner, who's at the Roseburg Public Safety Center. That is where we are expecting an update from police shortly, and Ashleigh Banfield, who is on the campus of Umpqua Community College.

Ashleigh, I know you've been there for days and I want to start off with you first. You have Roseburg Mayor Larry Rich there with you to give you an update on how things are going, so take it away.

ASHLEIGH BANFIELD, CNN HOST, "LEGAL VIEW": And I'm going to talk to the mayor in just one moment. But a couple of updates for you, Suzanne, and that is this, we are still in an active crime scene here on the campus. And there has been a change.

Originally, classes were going to get back underway on Monday at this campus. That is not going to happen. Instead, the classes will be canceled for the entire week. Understandable given what this very small community has been through.

It is such a small community, Suzanne. It is more than likely that everybody here has some connection to a victim. And we know for sure at this point that this killer had a connection to his victims that he was registered in the class that he desecrated, where he massacred these students.

[12:15:11] Those students, their bodies, I can only explain this best as my colleague, Sara Sidner, said it (inaudible) -- two National Guard Blackhawk helicopters landed at the airport here, bringing their bodies back from the medical examiner's, such a poignant and such a sorrowful scene as their helicopters landed yesterday.

And one by one, those bodies were off-loaded from the helicopters on to gurneys, waiting on the tarmac. Clearly, there will be funerals and plans made in the coming days for those victims.

I will say this, the killer's body was not onboard either of those Blackhawk helicopters. He was not flown back with the victims. And now two of those victims that you were so eloquent, Suzanne --

MALVEAUX: Ashleigh, if you can hear me -- Ashleigh, if you could just raise your mic a little bit closer to your mouth. I know the wind is blowing really, really hard so it's difficult to hear you.

BANFIELD: OK. Yes, it's very windy here and very cool, although beautiful and sunny. I want to bring in the mayor of Roseburg, Larry Rich, who's with me. Hopefully you can hear us clearer now, Suzanne.

Mayor, I just wanted to ask you a little bit about the process that your town is going through at this point. I just mentioned, it's so small, everybody's got some connection to these students here.

MAYOR LARRY RICH, ROSEBURG, OREGON: Correct. As these names are made known, we're going to either know them or there's going to be a friend of a friend that knows them, so the connections will be clearer and it's going to be tough. It's going to be hard for our community because somebody's going to know somebody that was a victim.

BANFIELD: And have you found yourself all of a sudden overwhelmed with the need for outreach to the victim's family members, the friends, people seeking counseling and maybe even looking forward to how to deal with mental health in this community in the future.

RICH: Right, it's a matter of what can we do that's going to be productive and effective and helpful for the families and what are their needs.

BANFIELD: One of the first things landing here, we saw such quiet, lovely, peaceful community. And I'm just wondering if this horror has changed how you are going to effectuate business going forward. How you're going to look at security.

How you're going to look at dealing with the possibility that this did happen here, it can happen here. What's going to change in the way you function?

RICH: You're going to find this community is going to pull together quite well and come out even stronger. We also find out when we have our meetings for emergency preparedness that there'll be a little bit more deeper seriousness to what we're going to talk about and make sure that we're safe.

BANFIELD: The sheriff has said, when questioned about, you know, gun control and gun safety, he wrote, now, an infamous letter, I think, to the vice president saying, if there were federal changes in gun control, his community would not -- or at least, his sheriff's deputies would not enforce them. And he was asked about that and his response was, this is not the time to talk about gun control. We are in the throes of a tragedy. All I can say, Mr. Mayor, is that if this isn't the time, when is?

I mean, the media is pulling out, the president's right. These are becoming routine. We're the last live shot location here right now. There's a hurricane. There's Afghanistan. The stories will continue and the story will move on. If this isn't the time, are you losing your window?

RICH: I think you're going to find that people are going to jump on the bandwagon for both sides of this issue. Our community needs time to grieve. That's where we're at. Then it's time to look at the issue.

And as a nation, let's look at the issue and try to figure out, how do we solve the problem? You have people that will jump on and say, it's all guns and you have to secure all of these to stop the issue.

You'll have other people who say, no, we've got mental instability, we've got copycat issues, we need to look at the entire package to figure out what's different in today's society versus a number of years ago.

BANFIELD: Mayor Larry Rich, thank you for coming out. And I'm very sorry it's under these circumstances. And I myself and I'm sure everyone watching wish you strength in the days to come.

RICH: Thank, thank you.

BANFIELD: Suzanne, that's the story here at the UCC Campus. I'll pass it back to you.

MALVEAUX: OK, Ashleigh, thank you so much. Let's bring in Sara here. We're talking about this national dialogue and we do it all the time about weapons in this country linked to gun violence. And we're learning that these weapons, 13 purchased legally. What do we know about how he obtained them and how many he had?

SARA SIDNER, CNN CORRESPONDENT: He obtained them legally. This is the basic idea here. He didn't get them from someone on the street. He went and purchased them. Some of those guns purchased in Torrance, California, where he is and his family lived.

And some of the guns may belong to some of his family members. They found seven guns at his house, six guns at the scene. There's a lot of talk here, not about gun control.

It's about whether or not we spend too much time talking about the shooter and not enough time talking about the victims. And that seems to be the message here.

[12:20:08] Certainly the message that the sheriff has talked about. He has very adamantly refused to say his name, to talk much about him, although, he did release information about him, that he did attend classes, two classes at the school, one of which is one of the classes where he went in and slaughtered all of those people.

He also talked about the fact he was taking a theater class as well. So now we know the link between him and the college. We know that he knew all about, you know, the setting there and that is how he was able to sort of get in and do what he did -- Suzanne.

MALVEAUX: All right, Sara Sidner, thank you so much, Ashleigh Banfield as well. We're going to be right back.

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MALVEAUX: The Pentagon is now investigating a U.S. airstrike in Afghanistan to determine if it killed 19 people at a hospital. Doctors Without Borders says a strike damaged a hospital they use in the city of Kunduz. The aid group is saying 12 staff workers, seven patients including three children were killed and at least 37 others were injured.

[12:25:05] I want to go to CNN's Sherisse Pham in London who is following the story for us. Sherisse, what more do we know about the possibility here that the U.S. accidentally bombed this facility?

SHERISSE PHAM, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Suzanne, that is still under investigation. What we do know is that the Taliban entered this area of Afghanistan, Kunduz on Monday. U.S. and NATO advisers were on the ground when airstrikes were called in.

Doctors Without Borders is describing the attack early this morning as an aerial bombardment, and they say that they were shocked by this attack, because they had repeatedly told people in Kabul and Washington the precise location of the hospital and had done so as recently as Thursday.

And during the attack, they again called people in Kabul and in Washington, telling the GPS coordinates of the hospital, and it still took an additional 30 minutes before the attack stopped.

And as you mentioned earlier, they just confirmed, just in the last 30 minutes, that the death toll has gone up, 19 people dead, 12 staff members, 7 patients, including 3 children.

MALVEAUX: A U.S. commander in Afghanistan has already issued an apology. And we also heard from the defense secretary, Ash Carter, who was commenting this morning. Do we know specifics about their explanations? They certainly seem very remorseful, at least.

PHAM: Yes, except, we should keep in mind that the U.S. General John Campbell called President Ghani, Afghan President Ghani and apologized, but this is according to Ghani's office.

Now, over in Washington, Secretary Of Defense Ash Carter, has come out with his own statement. Let me read it for you here so I've got it correct.

And he acknowledged that a tragic accident happened in Kunduz and involved a Doctors Without Borders hospital and noted that the area has been the scene of intense fighting for the last few days.

And he says his thoughts and prayers are with everyone involved in this incident and says the investigation is ongoing -- Suzanne.

MALVEAUX: All right, Sherisse, thank you so much. Appreciate that.

And we are following this, Russia continuing its air strikes in Syria even after a warning from President Obama. We got that story, up next.

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[12:30:29] MALVEAUX: Hello, thanks for joining me. I'm Suzanne Malveaux. Fredricka Whitfield is off this morning.

Russian officials say that they have bombed targets in Syria for a fourth day straight including ammunition and oil depots, and there is new video showing one of this morning's air strikes.

The Russian Defense Ministry says they launched 20 since Friday. Now, this comes as President Obama warns Vladimir Putin about his air campaign in Syria, saying it will only lead to further bloodshed.

Our CNN'S Chris Frates, he is live in Washington with the latest, and Chris, this certainly seems in many ways to be an escalation.

CHRIS FRATES, CNN INVESTIGATOR: Well, that's right, Suzanne. I mean, President Obama really came out swinging yesterday against critics of his Syrian policy. They've suggested that Russia now has the upper hand there. And you're right, we remember that earlier this week, Russian President Vladimir Putin began bombing, what Russia says were Islamic state terrorists in Syria, but President Obama said that's not true, arguing that Russia is bombing ISIS and Syrian rebels, fighting to overthrow Syrian president, Bashar Al-Assad.

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BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Mr. Putin had to go into Syria, not out of strength, but out of weakness, because his client, Mr. Assad, was crumbling, and it was insufficient for him, simply, to send them arms and money. Iran and Assad make up Mr. Putin's coalition at the moment. The rest of the world makes up ours. So I don't think people are fooled by the current strategy.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

FRATES: So, Russia doubled down on that strategy today, with Russian news agencies reporting that the military plans to increase the number and intensity of its air strikes. Now Obama predicted Russia's bombing campaign will leave it mired in the quagmire in Syria, and he said he's not going to turn Syria into a proxy war between the United States and Russia. That, he argued, would be bad strategy. And Obama painted the war as between Assad, Russia, and Iran on the one side and the majority of Syrians who want Assad removed from power on the other. The United States, Obama said, is only concerned with fighting ISIS and ending the civil war in Syria. And for that to happen, Suzanne, the president said Assad has got to go.

MALVEAUX: All right. Chris, thank you very much. Appreciate that. I want to get more on the Russian campaign in Syria. I want to bring in Lieutenant Colonel Tony Shaffer into this conversation. He's a former U.S. Army Intelligence Officer. And Sarah Firth, she is a freelance correspondent and former anchor at Russia Today. Thank you both of you, for joining us.

And Sarah, I want you to start off the conversation because I suppose we're not really surprised that Russia is continuing the campaign in Syria, but it certainly seems as if there is very little room now for a political solution. Do you see that? That this is the direction that we're going?

SARAH FIRTH, FREELANCE CORRESPONDENT: Well, I think like there's a lot of tough talking at the moment in terms of the stand that they've given that you'd see Russia essentially up in the ante by the military action that it's now taking. But you're absolutely -- you're right, it's no surprise and that this is a step that Russia has taken. We know for many, many years now that they have diplomatically been supporting the Assad regime. And now you've got these military air strikes that Russia says are aimed at targeting the Islamic state.

Now, I think the major sticking points that you have here are one, when it comes to any sort of political dialogue and sort of bridging that gap, if you like, and bringing Russia closer into moving towards some kind of political transition in Syria is that the Putin government still maintain that they want to see Assad as part of that transition. And that's something that we've heard from the U.S. President Obama, many other countries involved very clearly maintaining their line that Assad has to go.

And the second concerning thing now with the air strikes is this issue over, what exactly Russia means when it's talking about terrorism? And when I was on the ground reporting in Syria, this issue, this sticking point over that term terrorists was one that came up a number of times, and it's already becoming abundantly clear that when Russia talks about targeting terrorists, it's not just referring to the Islamic state. It refers very likely to other anti-government opposition as well.

MALVEAUX: And Tony, we've talk about Russia, and we think, you know, is there any kind of diplomatic solution here? Is there any diplomacy that's going on I mean, the president met with Putin, it was just days before this happened, and we saw Secretary Kerry meeting with his counterpart.

[12:35:06] Well, Russia warned the U.S. just a very brief time before these air strikes. So, what do you think they were trying to accomplish? Do they think they were trying to salvage any kind of relationship in that brief warning, or was it simply a military strategy, so that we wouldn't end up striking each other. LT.COL. TONY SHAFFER (RET.), FORMER U.S. ARMY INTELLIGENCE OFFICER: Right. Well, let's face it here. When the Russian -- a Russian general shows up in Baghdad with a written warning saying, hey, we're jumping in, that's not really giving us fair warning. With that said, I think we had to be very clear here as much as I think people are troubled by this, President Obama is completely wrong. His strategy is not working, and I don't care if it is only the Iranians, Assad, and Syria and the Russians against the rest of the world. The thing that the President continues to fail to understand is that what we must do is fail to give ISIS and other terrorist groups ungoverned space. I think everybody recognizes Assad must go. With that said, over half of Syria has fallen to ISIS, more of Syria is being controlled by other terrorist groups, and as we saw in Libya. The moment you destroy the central government, you have chaos.

So I think Assad is being supported by Putin, for now, is the right answer. We must sustain Syria without destroying Syria to get rid of Assad. So, I think what we have to understand is, ultimately is, there's going to have to be a diplomatic solution for now, because ISIS controls over half of Syria, because ISIS continues to rise. Putin is actually doing what we should have done a year ago.

Some of these air strikes I've seen are actually at the heart of both the logistical and command and control of ISIS. So, as much as it's painful to see, some of the rebels we've trained get caught up in this, and trust me, this -- there's purposes behind Putin going at us. He's making a point.

For the larger term, we had to leverage his ability to go in there and take out these rebels and figure out how we can then try to find a diplomatic solution. And I think that's what we're left with.

MALVEAUX: And Sarah, the president says that he's not going to be engaged in an all-out proxy war, but we are in a proxy war. I mean, it seems like this is pretty clear...

SHAFFER: That's right.

MALVEAUX: ... that that's what's taking place.

FIRTH: Well, right. But I think it is really important to remember, when we're talking about the sort of diplomatic process in trying to reboot that, is that, you know, it's for a very long time now, it has been clear that Russia will have to be a part of that. And I think that, again, that's really important given the latest military action, as Russia is taking military action right now in Syria isn't going to change the fact that such a huge number of people have been killed by Assad's battle bombs, by the military action of Syria regime and taken. So, it is very clear that at some point, Assad will have to go.

At the moment, that's a major sticking point in sort of bringing Russia into the diplomatic solution. But it is important to remember with all the tough talking that's now going to happen, as we try and establish exactly where these Russian air strikes are targeting. And then, if they're not simply targeting ISIS, they're targeting other rebel forces, well then, what will the U.S. and the international community also involved in Syria do about that.

And there's a lot of answers that we don't have at the moment. And I think we do have to be quite careful with the tough talking, because further down the line, Russia will have to be a part of any diplomatic solution. And we should definitely be looking, I think, to try and put as much pressure as possible on to be getting the Russian government...

MALVEAUX: All right.

FIRTH: ... the Syrian government to the table to discuss that.

MALVEAUX: All right. We'll have to leave it there. Sarah Firth, Lieutenant Colonel Tony Shaffer, thank you very much both of you for joining us for that discussion. It's a very, very important that we get beyond this moment.

After hearing of yet, another mass shooting, President Obama echoed what many people across this country thought, how many more times will we see pictures like these?

A daughter of a victim of a shooting at an Oregon mall in 2012 speaks to us about this latest tragedy, up next.

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[12:42:39] MALVEAUX: Welcome back. The community of Roseburg, Oregon, still reeling after the shooting at Umpqua Community College. Ashleigh Banfield, my colleague, she has been there for days now from the very beginning.

Ashleigh, give us a sense of how people are coping this weekend.

BANFIELD: Well, you know, I think you and I have both arrived on the story location, Suzanne before and we are quickly apprised of how sensitive this can be. You try to reach out to people to help you flash out the story, and you're quickly met with requests of, "Please leave these family members to grieve. They need their space, they need their isolation at this time, and they need to not have the media knocking down their doors," which is completely understandable. But you have to think about what this is like for those who've had to go through this before. And, in fact, Jenna Yuille lost her mom three years ago, in the same kind of situation, a gunman opening up in a mall, not far from here, outskirts of Portland here in Oregon. And this was just three days before Sandy Hook, and the massacre that took all those little children.

So, this is often what we can do to try to at least get a better understanding of what these families of these kids from the school are going through. And Jenna, luckily, is willing to talk to us now about it.

Jenna, I know this is a difficult conversation for you. It's only been two years, which you know, may seem like a lifetime, and may seem like yesterday, but when this kind of thing happens, I can only assume you know exactly what these family members are going through in this community.

JENNA YUILLIE, MOTHER KILLED IN 2012 OREGON MALL SHOOTING: Yeah, definitely. It's really awful. And I can tell you that it doesn't get easier. Three years sounds like a long time to me, but it feels like it could have been just yesterday. I just -- I will never forget what that was like, waiting and hearing about a shooting and then knowing that my mom was there and calling her and waiting to hear back and calling and calling and not hearing anything. And then, getting that call telling me that she was dead and then, having to deal with it, all of the aftermath of that. Just the shock that it happened and the way it had happened. You know, of course, knowing everything that's going to happen to their family, it's awful and it changes your life forever.

[12:45:06] BANFIELD: Jenna, I know that you were an unwilling member of this club. I often describe this as a growing club with members that never thought they'd be part of it, never wanted to be, and still don't want to be in it. And it makes me wonder if when you hear of the next round of members joining, do you reach out to them, do you want to be at least a part of it again to help them through it, or do you want to recoil and stay away from this?

JENNA: Yeah, that's a good question. You know, I think there's a little bit of both, but ultimately I want to be someone that's here for anyone else who's going through this and who wants to talk about it and who wants to get involved. I also know what that's like to kind of, you know, be on a border of trying to figure out if you even want to get involved or not.

For me, it wasn't immediate. It's something I can do fairly quickly, but there's a number of factors that went into that. But definitely, if anyone wants to talk about this at all or what to do, I am here. Please tell them to contact me.

BANFIELD: And I know that you have also made this sort of your life's work, in a sense, too, to try to advocate against gun violence. And this is sadly, once again, a recurring story where, you know, Andy Parker who lost his daughter just recently, the television reporter, who was shot dead live on television with her cameraman, he has been very vocal. He writes op-eds regularly. He goes on television. He's demanding stricter gun control. He's part of the group, Everytown for Gun Safety.

Is this the kind of thing that you find solace in as well? Have you also joined this group of activists who have had to suffer through tragedy unwillingly, and now want to see an end to it through this kind of advocacy?

JENNA: Definitely, I'm also a part of that group, Everytown for Gun Safety. It's a wonderful group. We have a number of different gun violence survivors who have been able to come together and support each other, and work together to demand change.

And yeah, for me, I -- it's something that I had to do. My mom's death was not an accident. It shouldn't have happened. And I wasn't willing to accept the fact that her death would for nothing. So, that's why I'm doing this. I am determined to change something. And I couldn't imagine doing anything else, honestly. I couldn't -- I would not be okay with just sitting back and watching everything happen.

BANFIELD: Well, Jenna, I am very appreciative of this time that you could join us. It's very difficult to speak with any family members, even if there are a few years that have passed between the tragedy and now. And I do thank you for helping us navigate through some of these extraordinarily difficult issues. Then and, by the way, I wish you strength as well as you come upon yet another really difficult anniversary.

JENNA: Yeah, thank you for having me. I appreciate it.

BANFIELD: Thanks, Jenna.

You are joining us live. CNN continues its coverage after the break.

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[12:53:56] MALVEAUX: Campus massacre in Oregon has again drummed up to debate over guns in America and who should be held accountable for the violence. Oregon state law allows universities and colleges set their own policy.

Umpqua's Government Board established a campus-wide gun-free zone. So, let me bring in our legal guys, Avery Friedman, Civil Rights Attorney and Law Professor and Richard Herman, Criminal Defense Attorney and Law Professor as well. Good to see you both. Thank you for joining us.

AVERY FRIEDMAN, CIVIL RIGHTS ATTORNEY: Hi Suzanne.

MALVEAUX: Hi, Richard, I want to start off with you. So the college decided they did not have to have these armed security guards on campus and the shooter was a student at the college. Does it make the college culpable?

RICHARD HERMAN, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: And that in and of itself does not make the college culpable. You know, you have two issues here. One, the student population and the administration did not want students to be allowed, even with a concealed carry permit to be able to have handguns or guns on the campus, so that's one. Number two, the only way to prevent something like this in and -- is to have basically metal detectors and armed guards at the entrance to every building, roaming security, and stop-and-frisk throughout the university. They're never going to agree to that. You cannot foresee the actions of a mentally ill person and that's just what happened here. There will be no liability for the university or the college for wrongful death in this case.

[12:55:24] MALVEAUX: Avery, do you agree?

FRIEDMAN: Well, sort of, the difficulty here is, you were right when you identify what happened at this particular community college, Suzanne. There was actually a vote of the students and it was a close one, but the twist was, a majority of the students says they didn't want armed guard on campus. The administration accepted that determination. So the question is, even if the vote were the other way around, what is the foreseeability of a third person engaging in criminal conduct? And I think that's what the courts are going to look to. There's a greater policy issue of the intersection of mental illness and firearms, but on the legal, the legal issue is whether or not this is foreseeable and that will determine the outcome of the case.

MALVEAUX: And so, do you think that any of the families of the victims, do you think that they would have a possible case in saying that they believe, even if the vote was the way it was, and that the student body said, "No, we don't want firearms," that there is a way to hold them responsible?

HERMAN: You know, Suzanne, the families are distraught. So they're going to go out and reach out to attorneys and they're going to say, "Isn't there something we can do here," and the creative attorney will try to put together some sort of litigation, some sort of lawsuit to try to achieve a settlement. Liability on the legal issue of liability against the campus, it's just not there. And it isn't there in the majority of cases. I don't know any campus case where families are prevailed on wrongful death. The issue of foreseeability and the fact that there's a gun culture is just not enough to impose liability on the universities. It's not going to happen here and Avery was right, whether they had one guard or five armed guards, it still probably would not have prevented this.

MALVEAUX: All right, we're going to have to leave it there. Avery Friedman and Richard Herman, thank you so much for your time this morning. We appreciate your perspectives.

A major rainmaker and a hurricane, that's bad news for Southeastern U.S. Well, this is what it looks like now in Charleston, South Carolina. We're getting a live report on this historic flood event just ahead.

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