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Victims' Families Speak Outside Hospital; Police: Gunman Killed Himself; Four Deaths Linked To Severe Storms'; Oregon Gunman's Father Speaks; Republicans, Democrats Have Accused Each Other of Politicizing Shootings; Trump Says Armed Teachers Could Have Prevented Shooting. Aired 5-6p ET
Aired October 03, 2015 - 17:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[17:00:46] POPPY HARLOW, CNN ANCHOR: Hi, everyone, it's 5:00 Eastern. I'm Poppy Harlow joining you this Saturday live in New York. And we are tracking new developments this hour in the mass shooting at Oregon's Umpqua Community College. Police revealing just a short time ago the gunman who killed nine people and wounded nine others on Thursday then committed suicide after he was confronted by officers. Police also updated the total number of guns linked to the shooter to 14. Six recovered at the school, another eight found at his home.
Those updates follow revelations that the gunman was a student in the very same English class that he targeted on Thursday. You're looking at the nine people who lost their lives that day, and he gave a survivor a collection of writings before his final showdown with police, but an hour ago we heard from the people who matter most in the story, the victims, their families, and the survivors. It was a very emotional press conference, and we want to bring you all of those remarks in full unedited.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We'd like to thank all of you for all of your support. Thank you for caring and being here to share this tragic story. We're blessed beyond belief that Cheyenne is here today.
(INAUDIBLE QUESTION)
BONNIE SCHEAN, MOTHER: She's having some tough times. Healing is going to be slow. But I know my daughter's very strong and she's going to get through this. She's 16 and in college.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She's a nursing student. She was in her fourth day. And when this incident occurred, she laid down on the ground and played dead. And that saved her life.
SCHEAN: Except for I was calling her. Yes.
(INAUDIBLE QUESTION)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Go ahead.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She had --
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Closer, please.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She is currently in the ICU. She lost a kidney due to her gunshot wound, but she's having a tough day today, but we're hopeful she'll make a full recovery.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: You said she played dead. Can you convey what she went through?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She's starting to remember things. It's going to be a very long road. Obviously, physically, but mentally.
SCHEAN: She was shot --
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: -- through the back and it clipped her lung and got lodged in her kidney.
SCHEAN: So she's having lung problems with this also.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She's jumpy, as you can imagine, when she hears a loud noise. She's starting to really remember the events and what happened. She was asked what her religion was and didn't say anything.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Bonnie, how did you hear about this?
SCHEAN: I heard there was a shooting at the college. I grabbed my purse, my keys, and flew out of my job. I texted my daughter, I'm on my way to school, but I never went there. I came here. And that is how I found my daughter.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She had that mother's intuition.
(INAUDIBLE QUESTION)
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: How far was I?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Grateful.
SCHEAN: I'm very grateful. Very, very grateful. Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: They've been amazing.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Not that we know of, no, she did not.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Talked to a friend, Ana Boylan --
SCHEAN: Yes. They were beside each other, and they were talking to each other, telling each other I've guess what I heard, they told each other just don't move. Yes, yes.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Play dead.
SCHEAN: Play dead.
[17:05:12] UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: The family credits your daughter for saving Ana's life.
SCHEAN: That's my daughter. That's Cheyenne. This might sound a little harsh. What Ana -- a text message I seen on Facebook that was sent somehow, because she was able to keep her phone, is the "f"-er shot me in the back. That is a statement from my daughter.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: She texted that to someone?
SCHEAN: She texted that on Facebook, yes.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Posted it.
SCHEAN: Posted it. Posted it. I was calling her, she wasn't calling me back. I knew something was wrong, so I just -- I came here.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Bonnie, when you got here, when was the first time you got to see Cheyenne? When did you know the extent of her injuries?
SCHEAN: When I got here, pretty much immediately there was a lady, I was calling my daughter's name out. I don't remember the lady's name. They were trying to get my calmed down, but my insides weren't doing that so well. And then they finally took me into the Emergency Room where my daughter asked me if I would step out because she didn't want me to be upset. She was at that time very strong. And I can't believe this is where it's at. But I'm very thankful and I'm sorry for everybody in the community that do not have their children with them. Or lost their life.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We also like to thank the first responders.
SCHEAN: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And, you know, the staff here at the hospital, all the Emergency Room workers, everyone is going through their own internal emotions right now for having to deal with everything they saw, with the things they've seen. We're just so thankful. They've been incredible.
(INAUDIBLE QUESTION)
SCHEAN: Cheyenne wants to sleep. She's not up and going at all.
(INAUDIBLE QUESTION)
SCHEAN: Why and how did it happen? Why?
(INAUDIBLE QUESTION)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Well, probably since this was just her fourth day of college, she's probably just trying to figure it out, you know?
(INAUDIBLE QUESTION)
SCHEAN: She completed a D.D. program and she passed everything. She was accepted into UCC and the nursing program. UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Did she tell you guys anything about the
shooter -- (INAUDIBLE)
SCHEAN: An envelope and was told you're going to be the lucky one and to go to the corner. And he told everybody else to go to the middle of the room and lay down is what I heard from my daughter. Chose somebody, that he was the lucky one to be picked, yes.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Cheyenne told you that he said that, he picked somebody (INAUDIBLE)
SCHEAN: She, obviously -- she was right there, you know, so he called the one guy, gave him the envelope and told him to go to the corner of the classroom, because, obviously, he was going to be the one that was going to be telling the story.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You'll get that in a minute, yes.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Was Cheyenne on the ground when the shooter shot?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: From what we know.
SCHEAN: Yes, and she had her phone in her hand and it smashed, so I don't know if she was already laying on the ground or if, you know, or how yet it happened. I have not questioned my daughter about any of this. I can't bring myself to do it, because I know when she's ready, she will talk to me and tell me and little bits she's starting to, you know, let out. But I'm -- I don't want my daughter to be scared of a noise. This is very upsetting to me in this form.
[17:10:19] UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: All we know is the way the bullet went in, it looks like it went downward, like how it was hit, from clipping her lung to hitting her kidneys.
SCHEAN: And then to her other organs.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes, she was shot once, it went in through her --
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Right below her shoulder blade, then it clipped the lung and then lodged in her kidney, which is why they had to remove her kidney.
(INAUDIBLE QUESTION)
SCHEAN: I haven't heard a release date. Her recovery is going to be long, but we'll get there. Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She's still in ICU and in a lot of pain.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We'd really like to get her Go Fund Me page out there and into the media and anything that you guys can do to help us spread the word. You know medical bills are going to be steep, and her family's having to take time off, obviously, to be with her, and we just think that everybody should be able to get the same out of this.
(INAUDIBLE QUESTION)
She does have insurance, thankfully.
SCHEAN: Yes, she does have insurance, double coverage.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Still difficult, of course, yes. Still a 20 percent copay, yes.
(INAUDIBLE QUESTION)
SCHEAN: Cheyenne was the youngest victim.
(INAUDIBLE QUESTION)
SCHEAN: Yes. Anastasia and her are friends. Related to Steve and Savannah Fitzgerald and they all hang and car pool together, and for some reason Steven and Savannah weren't in that class that day. Just minutes, they must have passed the gunman.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: How excited was Cheyenne to start?
SCHEAN: Very. On her phone she messaged to me, but also, up and ready, she was getting her cup and coffee and off she was going. She's really excited, very excited.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Bonnie, you mentioned earlier that you heard the news, came straight over here. Was that mother's intuition?
SCHEAN: Totally. There's no other word. Mother's intuition and by the grace of God.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: What are you thinking as you're driving here?
SCHEAN: Well, okay, I was texting my phone, calling my daughter, and I didn't care if a police was going to pull me over. I just -- I didn't stop. I just came. Through.
(INAUDIBLE QUESTION)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Pardon me?
(INAUDIBLE QUESTION)
SCHEAN: Yes. We don't know.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We don't know the full story of how he got to the classroom. He was in the classroom or he ran from another location.
(INAUDIBLE QUESTION)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Or in the doorway.
SCHEAN: Doorway. UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We're not sure. We're hearing different
stories, but we haven't really spoken to him, so I don't know if we should speak on his behalf.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It was writing 115. Yes, yes.
(INAUDIBLE QUESTION)
SCHEAN: That's what we have heard, too.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We've heard different stories from every person.
(INAUDIBLE QUESTION)
SCHEAN: No, and I've never seen him. I've never seen him.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We're letting her come forward with her story about what happened that day as she wants to. We're not pressuring her to talk.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We're letting her recover.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: (INAUDIBLE) Talk about her mentally.
SCHEAN: That's what we're starting to worry about, because one chair being moved set her off. And she's starting to talk, she talked to her dad a little bit about it. She's talking -- she's mentioned to me about all the blood.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Luckily, there are so many people here as resources for the families. She was just recently speaking to some people that are here for her, for everyone that's going through this, and so we're really feeling supported. Very, very supported.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Thank you so much, everyone.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Thank you all.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
[17:15:04] HARLOW: There you have it, the full press conference of the family members of the youngest victim, Cheyenne, in the shooting who was shot in the back, is still in intensive care, but is on the road to recovery.
Also for the first time we're now hearing from the father of that Oregon college gunman. What he has to say to our Ryan Young about guns in this country and the change that he is calling for. That is next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[17:18:39] HARLOW: The man who opened fire on the Oregon college campus this week and killed nine people, wounding nine others, then killed himself, that is today been confirmed by the sheriff of Douglas County who said the shooter was down within five minutes after officers did respond to the scene. Until today his cause of death was unknown.
CNN's Ashleigh Banfield is live in Roseburg, Oregon, with more. Ashleigh.
ASHLEIGH BANFIELD, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Poppy, I think perhaps one of the bomb shells from this news conference was something we have not been able to clear up and that was how this gunman died. And in fact, he died by suicide. There had been some discrepancies to whether he was taken down by the deputies that responded to this tragedy or whether he killed himself, and the M.E., medical examiner, through the sheriff, you know, concluded that the killer died by his own hand. There were some other details that were of interest, as well. There was an additional gun that was discovered upon further search of the campus.
There is a lot of question as to why so much investigating, why this is still effectively a crime scene behind me on this campus and why so little information when reporters are asking about the details of the writings or some kind of package of some sort that had reportedly been handed by the killer to one of the survivors, and the sheriff just wasn't prepared to clear it up. Unbeknownst to us, there's no due process here, there's no one to prosecute in terms of a killer who's dead, but they are still not releasing every detail. That did come to us through a second confirmation by a mother of one of survivor who said, indeed, that shooter did hand over an envelope to a survivor and dictated to that survivor to head to the corner of a classroom and delivered that envelope to authorities.
A couple other things that were of interest in this news conference, and that was a justified shooting investigation, whether there will be any kind of resolution to this officer-involved shooting. Don't forget, the officers who responded did engage this killer in gunfire, but it is unusual that the preliminary suggestions from the authorities are, and especially the district attorney who announced this, is that this was a justified shooting, but that it's still preliminary and that still needs to be finalized. Effectively, when this shooter died by his own hand, I think we can all assume that it was a justified shooting given the carnage that he left in his wake.
But there was other issue with this sheriff as he delivered the details for the day in one of his briefings and that was the emotion that sort of came with this. You know, after sort of methodically getting through the details of the investigation, et cetera, the sheriff took a deeper breath and paused for a moment and said, you know, these victims will remain with us forever. He said that they will never be forgotten and that they are our heroes.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And to the families of the victims, our hearts are with you. And you know that our hearts will be with you forever. Please know that we consider your loved ones to be our heroes. They will never be forgotten. (END VIDEO CLIP)
BANFIELD: As far as the continuance of the investigation and the reason for it, which, of course, so many people have been asking the sheriff was fairly clear. He said the family members and those left behind, they want all the answers as to how this happened and why. Yes, there's not going to be a trial, however, the investigation should yield some information that he says he plans to share with authorities and police divisions all around the country. With the hopes that perhaps something like this in the future can be prevented, avoided, stopped altogether -- Poppy.
HARLOW: Let's hope so. Ashleigh, thank you very much.
Also this, the Carolinas getting absolutely drenched in a so-called once in a century rain.
Boris Sanchez live on the coast, where it looks like it's much worse than an hour ago.
BORIS SANCHEZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Looked like there was a horrible storm looming here, people are out celebrating but we'll tell you specifically why officials are really concerned for Myrtle Beach coming up in just a few minutes.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ANTHONY BOURDAIN, CNN HOST, "PARTS UNKNOWN": So, let's get right to it.
Among -- topped their questions asked me, what's the most underrated destinations you've been too?
Undiscovered secrets, that's sort of thing.
[17:23:08] Marseille in French.
It is a glorious stew of Mediterranean Bahamas.
I was so close to the cliff.
Easily, the most interesting under-visited, under-exploited place I've been in a really long time.
I'm stunned and shocked that it took so long to get here. Salute.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[17:27:32] HARLOW: Right now emergency evacuations are under way in parts of the Carolinas where flood waters are rising, following a one-two punch from Hurricane Joaquin and another weather system. At least four deaths have been reported in North and South Carolina as a result of this flooding. The storms also closing roads, causing blackouts. The rain is not over yet, and South Carolina they are bracing for up to 15 more inches by the time it is said and done.
Let's go straight to Boris Sanchez, he is in Myrtle Beach, South Carolina. An hour ago you had a lot of folks on the beach. They've all left.
SANCHEZ: A lot of them have left. There are still people here, a lot of kids enjoying themselves, families enjoying the sands and blue skies. As a matter of fact, just a short while ago, there was a couple here taking wedding portraits. Not the typical sight you see when there's a storm like this looming. We're expecting record breaking torrential rainfall to come in tonight and tomorrow similar to what we saw last night where you have officials trying to rescue families out of their homes because flooding was so bad. As we drove in here earlier today, we saw roads that were still kind of water logged, there were very big puddles everywhere, lakes, bodies of water, ponds, that were very high.
And as we're expected to get more rain, those are expected to overflow. We also saw some apartment buildings here on the coastline, their parking lots were flooded and that water is not going anywhere. So, obviously, officials are very concerned about the risks, because this area is water logged. There's nowhere else for the water to go. Another big concern is out on the road. Just in the past two days there have been three fatal traffic accidents related to weather here in South Carolina, so officials are asking anyone that doesn't have to be out on the road to just hunker down and stay home tonight. It's better to be safe than sorry as we wait for this potentially historic rainfall here in Myrtle Beach -- Poppy.
HARLOW: We'll be watching, Boris, thank you very much. Tracking that storm for us. Quick break, we're back in a moment.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[17:32:33] HARLOW: All right, we are today learning new things about this week's deadly, deadly shooting at that college campus in western Oregon, specifically, those crucial moments when police officers responded to the scene of the massacre. The sheriff of Douglas County, Oregon, spoke to reporters a short time ago and confirmed, for the first time, the man, who killed nine people and wounded nine others, then killed himself.
Also today, in an interview with CNN, the gunman's father spoke for the first time.
Ryan Young is in California with more.
What did he say about his son? I'm sure he was in disbelief.
RYAN YOUNG, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Poppy, he's heartbroken. In fact, we talked to him for quite some time before we got him to agree to do this interview. He was very upset but wanted to express his heartfelt towards the families, the nine other families involved in this. Yes, his son is gone. He doesn't even understand what happened and he wanted to know more about the situation, but he said he's at a loss for words for what his son has done. In fact, we talked to him in an interview that lasted some five
minutes and you can hear for yourself just how sort of at lost for words that he was.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
YOUNG: Obviously, this has been a very tough time. You said you're hurting not only for your family, but the other families that have been impacted.
IAN MERCER, FATHER OF OREGON CAMPUS SHOOTER: Absolutely. It has been, as I said before, devastating on me and my family, but we're not alone in this. This I know, words will not bring your families back and nothing I can say can change what happened, but please believe me, my thoughts are with all of those families and I hope they can get through this.
YOUNG: And you talked before, you said you just really are at a loss for words when it comes to something like this. There's so many questions someone can ask you, but you really said you don't have answers for them.
MERCER: Sometimes you try to find the right words and there really isn't. There's nothing I can really say and find the right words. Sometimes it's overwhelming, and, you know, trying to understand how it can happen. It's just incredible. I'm at a loss for words right now even.
[17:35:07] YOUNG: You told me before you didn't want to talk too much about your son, obviously, because you're going through so much pain, but you also realize that people are going to remember him differently now forever.
MERCER: Always be remembered for what he did on Thursday, I know that. I can't change that. At the moment, I'm just leaving it to the police to do their investigations as to, you know, his history and everything in his background. I'm sure they will announce what they find all in good cause. Right now, I'm just going to leave it up to them. The only thing I would like to say, question I would like to ask is, is how on earth could he compile 13 guns? How can that happen? You know? Talk about gun laws, they talk about gun control, every time something like this happens they talk about it and nothing is done. I'm not trying to say that's to blame for what happened, but Chris has not been able to get a hold of 13 guns, it wouldn't have happened.
YOUNG: That's a very powerful statement coming from you, so now I have to ask you, the idea, how did he get the 13 guns? That's what everyone's going to want to ask now, even when you're asking that question.
MERCER: Look all over the world, you don't see these kind of mass shootings all over the world on a consistent basis like you do in the United States, so somebody has to ask the question, how is it so easy to get all these guns? How is it so easy? 13 guns, I've never held a gun in my life, I never want to. I know there are people that do. But you have to ask that question, how was he able to compile that kind of arsenal?
YOUNG: Did you know he had 13 guns?
MERCER: I had no idea he had any guns. I had no idea that he had any gun whatsoever. And I'm a great believer that you don't buy guns, don't buy guns, don't buy guns.
YOUNG: Even you want to change this. You want the gun laws to change.
MERCER: It has to change. It has to change. How can it not? Even people that believe in the right to bear arms, you know, what right do you have to take people's lives? That's what guns are, killers, simple as that. Simple as that. It's black and white. What do you want the gun for?
YOUNG: And my very last question, mentally, you said, how did he have 13 guns, but a lot of people talking about his mental makeup. Police are going to dig into that. What do you understand about his mental makeup?
MERCER: I'm going to let the police follow through with their investigations. Whatever they determine is something that they are going to find through the investigations, you know, I don't have any comment to make on his mental state. Obviously, obviously, somebody who killed nine people has to have some kind of issue, whatever it is, and let the police determine what they find.
YOUNG: Could we add one more thing, too? When was the last time you saw your son?
MERCER: Last time I actually saw him was before he went to Oregon. Last few days, before he went to Oregon, we spent a little time together. I haven't seen him since he went to Oregon.
YOUNG: Would you mind, sir, explain your relationship with your son. How was it?
MERCER: He was my son. He was my son, you know? There isn't any kind of disharmony or any bitterness or anything like that between him and I. When he was down here, we saw each other, went for dinner, did things that sons and dads do, you know, just talk and he lived with his mother the whole time, he didn't come to live with me at all. We had a harmonious relationship.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
YOUNG: Poppy, obviously, very emotional.
That voice that you heard in the background, you understand this, Poppy, that was my producer. We work in teams here at CNN. We were out there, having this long conversation with his father and, obviously, we thought it was very important to also bring you that part.
He said he had a pretty good relationship with his son, but they never lived together. The fact, his mother and the father split quite some time ago. He said he was never even aware his son had so many guns. You heard that part. That's what really stood out to us, the talk about the gun violence, the fact he compiled so many guns, the fact he even wants to see the laws change. I think as we stood back from this, the one thing that stood out, what could he say to those families that were involved in this, the sheer terror they experienced. Obviously, we've heard stories about heroes involved, trying to rescue people during that shooting, but the idea his son would not be known as a monster, something that would stick with him, obviously, forever.
[17:40:27] HARLOW: Ryan Young, thank you very much for bringing that to us again. The first time we have heard from the father of this gunman.
Coming up next, Donald Trump coming out today and saying arming teachers would have, could have prevented the shooting. We'll discuss those comments and more right after this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
HARLOW: Mass shootings in America, 12 killed in the Aurora theater massacre, 32 killed at Virginia Tech, 26 murdered at Sandy Hook Elementary, including 20 children. After every massacre, many questions are raised about mental illness and gun control, and then oftentimes put on hold indefinitely. Both Republicans and Democrats accuse one another of politicizing tragedy.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
(MUSIC)
KATE BROWN, (D), OREGON GOVERNOR: Those are conversations for the days ahead. Right now, I'm focused, along with Oregonians across the state, on supporting this community.
(MUSIC)
[17:45:08] SEN. MARCO RUBIO, (R), FLORIDA & PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: We need to really focus on the facts before we take hard positions. I can tell you that I always find it interesting that the reflexive reaction to the left is that we need more gun laws.
BOBBY JINDAL, (R), LOUISIANA GOVERNOR & PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I'm more than happy to talk about this in a few days. Right now is not the time. Excuse me. It's been less than 24 hours. Lafayette is grieving.
MIKE HUCKABEE, (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE & FORMER ARKANSAS GOVERNOR: It was disappointing to hear the president within virtually minutes of, I guess, the news breaking or hours of it breaking for him to come to the podium and immediately say, all right, this is a great opportunity for me to grandstand.
JAY CARNEY, FORMER WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: There is, I'm sure, will be, rather, a day for discussion of the usual Washington policy debates, but I don't think today is that day.
MITT ROMNEY, (R), FORMER PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE & FORMER MASSACHUSETTS GOVERNOR: I think some people will try and politicize what happened in Colorado, but a law is not going to change the outcome there.
MIKE ROGERS, (R), CNN NATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT & FORMER CONGRESSMAN: Unfortunately, I think they are using this tragedy to promote something they've been pushing for, for years.
SEN. PATRICK LEAHY, (D), VERMONT: Let's find out what happened here. Let's not get a tragedy mixed up in politics. The president has not. I have not.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
HARLOW: So when is the right time to have that debate about guns in this country and mental health? Next, Ben Ferguson and Marc Lamont Hill will weigh in. Stay with us. We'll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[17:50:32] HARLOW: We are hearing from the father of the Oregon shooter, not only is he talking about his son, he's also talking about his views on gun control in the country.
Let's bring in political commentator and Morehouse College professor, Marc Lamont Hill; as well as Ben Ferguson, conservative commentator and radio host.
Gentlemen, thank you for being here.
BEN FERGUSON, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Good to be here.
We just heard the shooter's father say this to our Ryan Young:
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
YOUNG: Even you want changes? You want the gun laws to change?
MERCER: It has to change. It has to change. How can it not? Even people that believe in the right to bear arms, you know, what right do you have to take people's lives? That's what guns are, the killers. Simple as that. It's simple as that. It's black and white.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HARLOW: Ben Ferguson, to you, is it as simple as that?
FERGUSON: No, unfortunately, it's not. A couple of things here. So many people calling for gun control, and I understand the emotional reaction to the tragedy, but gun-free zones we've tried all over the country and they don't work. We've seen people in positions of power in schools have been able to effectively save lives. Harper Middle School is a great example, Pearl High School is another one, Appalachian State University College, where you all had individuals, vice principals, teachers and a student who were able to take out a gunman who was going to commit a mass murder in the same way we see here. I would say this, at some point, we have to realize the liberal idea of a gun-free zone, we've tried it in every state in America, and every time one psychopath decides to go in there and commit murder, we are allowing innocent people to be sitting ducks, to be assassinated like last time. Something, I agree, has to change. But to imply there's a law that could have been passed that would have stopped what happened this week, I would love to know what that law would have been, that the president would have passed, any other Democrat would have passed, tell me what that law is. I'm genuinely willing to listen to it but I do not think there's a law that any of them could have passed that would have stopped this individual.
HARLOW: Marc, your response to that. And in the state of California, we have seen more stringent gun laws passed in terms of those mentally ill and family's ability to block them from having guns.
MARC LAMONT HILL, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Absolutely. And we do see positive effects of that. I think we can't -- of course, it's too simple to say that under -- in a moment of crisis, if we were to pass the right law, the crisis would have been avoided. But I don't think anyone on the left is making that claim. There's a broader claim, in the United States, we face a gun crisis like no other developed nation, like no other nation in the globe.
(CROSSTALK)
HARLOW: Why?
LAMONT HILL: It has something to do with access and to gun culture. And it's has something to do with the easier pathways to gun ownership or at least obtain one, even if it's not legal. We have to think about all of those things. We have to think about how easy it is to get a gun. We have to think about increasing standards to make it difficult for people who are mental ill, people who have criminal backgrounds, and continue to keep tough laws other forms of illegal activity. I don't think that one gun law would stop a tragedy from happening. But the fact --
(CROSSTALK)
FERGUSON: Marc and I agree on one issue here, and this is where if the president wants to actually have something in his legacy he can say and point to, he was able to do something, I think looking at the issue of it, if you're committed, against your will by the state, to a mental institution, that's a great place to start. I think there's bipartisan support for saying there has to be a moratorium for purchasing a weapon in that scenario and yet we don't have a nationwide look law on that. I think Republicans would come to the table with that and say, let's start there and get this going. But we have a mental health issue.
(CROSSTALK)
HARLOW: Guys, I want to get you, before I let you go, to weigh in on this as well. Donald Trump in the past hour said this in the wake of the Oregon shooting. Let's roll it.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP, (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE & CEO, TRUMP ORGANIZATION: By the way gun-free don't. I will tell you, if you had a couple of the teachers or somebody with guns in that room, you would have been a hell of a lot better off.
(CHEERING)
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HARLOW: Marc, it's not the first time we've heard a presidential candidate say that, but is he right?
(LAUGHTER)
LAMONT HILL: No, he's not right. I don't know if Donald Trump believes it. Donald Trump, every week says something to appeal to the most extreme wing of his new party. His new party
(CROSSTALK)
FERGUSON: How is it extreme?
(CROSSTALK)
HARLOW: We heard Rand Paul call for that after Sandy Hook.
(CROSSTALK)
[17:55:09] FERGUSON: If you had a kid in that class, don't you wish somebody was in there with a gun? Marc, if your gun was in that class, would you want somebody that's been through training that could have the ability to carry a gun to be there to stop them? That's not crazy. That's not lunatic. That's not insanity. That's a smart idea.
LAMONT HILL: Right, so I didn't say crazy, lunatic, insanity. So let's not put words in my mouth.
FERGUSON: You said that Donald Trump was trying to appeal to the crazies in the party every week.
(CROSSTALK)
FERGUSON: This is not a crazy idea.
LAMONT HILL: Hold on. Before you dispute what I say, let me say, I never said they were crazy. I said they were the extreme wing of the party, meaning the far right of the party that wants to arm teachers, not the center of the party. I'm not accessing their character. I'm simply speaking to their politics. I'm saying it's the extreme wing of the party. Now to actually answer the question, no, I don't think teachers right now are who are struggling to deliver proper curriculum, to deal with encroaching pressures on them on No Child Left Behind, teachers that don't get the resources they deserve, I don't want to turn them into to little Chuck Norrises and arm all of them and have them also be responsible for shooting down a maniac.
(CROSSTALK)
LAMONT HILL: No, I think that's absurd.
FERGUSON: No one's mandating. No one is mandating. Let's be very clear about what people are saying about this. No one is mandating that every teacher carry a gun. I said it before and I'll say it again, I do not want any teacher carrying a weapon that does not sign up and do it on their own and go through extensive training on their own. This is not something where we're saying every teacher must come to class with a weapon. We're asking for those -- and many people, by the way, who are teaching in most schools, usually there's one, two, three, former law enforcement or former military. Those are the first people that would sign up. No one is implying that every teacher's got to carry a sidearm. That's not the idea.
HARLOW: Gentlemen --
(CROSSTALK)
HARLOW: -- I have to leave it there. I have to leave it there. I have to get a break in. You will be back. We will keep talking about this.
Ben Ferguson, Marc Lamont Hill, thank you both.
I'm Poppy Harlow. Thank you for being with me. I'll be back here in one hour.
But "Smerconish" starts right after this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
