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Legal View with Ashleigh Banfield

Classes Cancelled This Week After Shooting On Oregon Community College Campus; Shooting Survivor Says Shooter Killed Woman In A Wheelchair; Oregon Sheriff Denies Posting Sandy Hook Conspiracy Link; Brady Campaign Calls On Sheriff To Resign; Life And Death Matters Before The High Court; Two Cases Test Death Penalty Rules; High Court To Revisit Affirmative Action, Abortion; Being13: Two-Year Investigation Into Social Media Habits. Aired 12:30-1p ET

Aired October 05, 2015 - 12:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[12:30:00] ASHLEIGH BANFIELD, CNN HOST: CNN is learning a lot more now about the shooting at Oregon's Umpqua Community College campus, and it is coming straight from the survivors of the massacre in that classroom and their family members.

The campus today is back open for the first time but those classes are canceled through Friday of this week. All of this as we are learning from the mother of one survivor that the shooter spared her son so that he could deliver an envelope to the police, but he forced that young man to watch the horrors unfold.

Here is what his mom told Dan Simon in an exclusive interview.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SUMMER SMITH, MOTHER OF SHOOTING SURVIVOR: The shooter asked him to give the police a -- something, and that if he did, he would live. Matthew said at that point, he didn't quite get what the shooter said. He thought he was standing up to die. And, but when the shooter gave him what he was told to give to the police, he was sent in to the -- sent in the back of the room facing the room and to watch what was going on. Matthew said that he promised, he didn't make a single move, he was afraid to look away, that if he made anything -- did anything to make the shooter notice him that he would be shot.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BANFIELD: There was another woman in that room as well who actually witnessed that moment when the killer handed the envelope over to Matthew, and then witnessed everything that happened after that moment. Her name is Tracy Hue, she is a mother of three who said she thought she would never see her children again, and she has bravely shared her story with CNN Sara Sidner in this exclusive interview and I do want to warn you that these details are extremely graphic.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

[12:35:06] TRACY HUE, SURVIVOR: I really don't know how I survived. I just -- I don't know, I was actually planning on just, you know, waiting to see the black light, you know just waiting not to see anything more.

SARA SIDNER, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Tracy Hue lived because she played dead.

HUE: I was sitting in the front of the classroom, facing the teacher when that everything happened. He just came in and shot towards the back of the wall and told everybody to get in the center of the room.

SIDNER: It was one of her fellow students; he showed up on the fourth day of classes with guns, not books. He set his sights on classroom 15 in Snyder hall at Umpqua Community College.

HUE: And he seem happy about it, he didn't seem stressed, he didn't seem nervous but when he came in, he told everybody to get on the ground, and everybody huddled to the ground, and then the girl in the wheelchair tried to get --she tried -- she got off and try to get down on the ground.

SIDNER: Really, there was a woman in a wheelchair during all these?

HUE: Yeah and she had a dog with her, but the dog was just on the ground and she got off the chair. She went on the ground and then he told her to get back on the chair and then she tried to climb back on the chair and then he shot her.

SIDNER: Tracy didn't know it yet, but the girl on the wheelchair was dead. He turned his attention to Professor Larry Levine.

HUE: He told the professor to get down on the ground as well, but he was trying to calm down to (inaudible) and he shot the professor and then he just started shooting everybody on the ground and then that's when I knew that, you know, this is it, I'm probably going to die, you know, I probably won't see my kid anymore, I probably won't see anybody anymore is what I thought.

SIDNER: Stays down on the ground hit by a bullet in the hand, she thought about her three children and waited to die.

HUE: The warmth of those blood that was all over me, that is when I knew that it was real. And I remember whispering to one of the person that was next to me, you know, he is the only one person, all of us, you know, we just have to do something about it or, you know, we're all just going to die.

SINDER: But then, she heard the shooter make a promise, he would spare one of the male student.

What did he say exactly?

HUE: He said that, "You're the lucky one, I'm - you know, I'm going to let you live but I'm going to need you to go and tell a police everything that happened and give them this."

SIDNER: He handed the man an envelope to give to police and then started asking his victims about their religion.

HUE: He just asked them, "Are you Christian?" "Do you believe in God?" and then they said, "Yeah", and he said, "Good, I'll send you, you know, I'll send you to God." "Yeah, we visiting God," pretty sounds, and he shoots them. And he asked him about attending (ph) Catholic and they said, "Yeah," and then he still shot him. I certainly don't know where he shot him or whom he killed but he shot them either way.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BANFIELD: Just so unbelievably indiscriminate.

Sara Sidner is live with me now from Roseburg, Oregon.

She is just incredible to have the fortitude to be able to tell this story. And I -- Is she actually going to return to classes?

SIDNER: We asked her that very question. We said after all of this, "Will you be able to go back to school? Is that something you want to do?" And she says, "Not only will I be able, I have to go back to school. I have to do this for my family." And she was studying to become a nurse.

So this is one of those scenarios where a young lady has decided that she will not be deterred her future now in her hands but she thought she wouldn't have a future and she said, "I am going to do this for my family," period.

Ashleigh?

BANFIELD: Sara, the details are so astounding, is that it couldn't get worst that she told you about the woman in the wheelchair who was murdered despite the fact everybody complied with his demands. It seems, as the stories come out, Sara, that originally people thought that he was singling out Christians, but your interview since you indicate that it didn't matter, it didn't matter what religion they were and he didn't seem to care.

SIDNER: Yeah, it was interesting, I did asked her that like what she took from what he was saying, and she said, "I don't think he was singling out necessarily anyone because he was just shooting everyone in the beginning without asking any questions, and then he began to ask about whether they were Christian but not just whether they were Christian, particularly whether they were Catholic. He never explained what that meant, but she says no matter what anyone said or did, they ended up being shot regardless.

BANFIELD: Just unbelievable. Sara, I think, you know, obviously that the counseling services that college and staff is providing, I hope that everybody avails themselves starting today when they are offering them.

Sara Sidner, excellent work out there, thank you.

[12:40:02] To add to the suffering of the victims, if you can believe that there are conspiracy theories rolling around that the victims are lying and that this shooting is a hoax and it is not the first time we have heard this kind of garbage. But speaking of conspiracy theories, the Sheriff is now having to answer to some controversy within the past.

He posted a video about a conspiracy theory involving the massacre at Sandy Hook.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BANFIELD: The Douglas County Sheriff is being forced now to answer some questions about a Sandy Hook conspiracy video. It was on his Facebook page, there was a link to the video that goes so far as to say some of the parents of those dead children were not parents, but were actors.

[12:45:06] On Sheriff Hanlin's Facebook page on January 13th 2013, the caption above the link to the video says this, and I will quote, "This makes me wonder who we can trust anymore. Watch, listen and keep an open mind."

Don't go to a Facebook page to see it now, because that post was taken down. But that doesn't mean we don't question people about what they did have, and that's what we did.

And when the Sheriff was questioned by Sara Sidner about it, watch what happened.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SIDNER: Now, do you believe there was a conspiracy theory video, or did you post it?

JOHN HANLIN, OREGON SHERIFF: No.

SIDNER: You didn't post it?

HANLIN: No, no. I know what you're referring to ...

SIDNER: Yeah.

HANLIN: ...but no, that's not a conspiracy theory belief that I have.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BANFIELD: Dan Gross joins me know. He is the president of the Brady Campaign To End Gun Violence.

You know, normally, we'd get your reactions to something like this but today I wanted you on the program because you have responded and you have been very serious about what kind of action you want taken against this Sheriff.

DAN GROSS, PRESIDENT, BRADY CAMPAIGN TO END GUN VIOLENCE: This guy needs to resign. I mean this is the guy charged with two vitally important jobs. Number one is investigating this terrible tragedy that happened at Umpqua Community College. And the secondly is actually enforcing the laws that he has taken an oath to enforce.

And he has made it very clear that he intends to not enforce the laws and that he cannot have an unbiased opinion about what happened in this terrible tragedy at Umpqua Community College. So he needs to be gone, and we need to put somebody in place to investigate this tragedy and to enforce the laws that we know can do it in an unbiased ways.

BANFIELD: Embedded in that Sandy Hook conspiracy video was also I believe that 9/11 was this conspiracy all of it based on the federal government having created these hoaxes to try to disarm the public ...

GROSS: Yeah.

BANFIELD: ...to take us away from the public that put the allegations are of those who said these are all hoaxes.

The response from the Sheriff was not that he didn't post that video, it was that called that "That it is not a conspiracy belief that I have," but I' reading again how he headlined it. It said, "This makes me wonder who we can trust anymore, watch, listen, and keep on open mind."

So I'm -- I'm getting mix messages from the Sheriff. More importantly though at this point, the Brady inspired background check laws that the voters in Oregon passed this past spring that were instituted over the summer. He has refused to actually enforce those.

GROSS: He wrote a letter to Vice President Biden saying that he vowed not to enforce any laws that he deems unconstitutional, and he very clearly deems background checks despite the fact that they aren't, despite the fact that they only keep guns out of the hands of the people that we all agree shouldn't have them, convicted felons, domestic abusers, fugitives and the dangerously mentally ill. He wants to like the gun lobby does parroting their talking points want us to believe that those are unconstitutional and as a result that he will not enforce them.

BANFIELD: There is something that our Evan Perez, our Justice Correspondent gave me as well and in that letter to Vice-President Biden, he is now to arrest ATF and other Federal Agents who came to his county to enforce any federal law where Presidential Executive order is not a Presidential Executive order, it's not a federal law. This was by his own voters in his own state. But irony is that the ATF and Federal Agents are there right now helping him in the tragedy.

GROSS: And so these are the very people that for too long have presented this issue as the controversial political issue, polarized political issue that it absolutely is not. That for too long have controlled the agenda, have undermined the safety of the people that they are charged to protect in the case of the law enforcement, and in the case actually government officials. And the American people need to come together and say, enough, 90 percent of us supports solutions like Brady background checks. This is not a controversial issue anywhere except in Congress.

BANFIELD: So Dan I mean I recognize what you're saying but at the same time Sheriffs are elected, isn't it up to the people there? I mean, look, if they voted in, this changes to the law, shouldn't they be the ones then responsible to vote him out?

GROSS: Under ordinary circumstances, yes. And that is something that we would have strongly advocated just based on his saying that he wasn't going to enforce the laws on background checks. But now we've had this terrible tragedy that's come home to roost and his county. And he is charged with leading an unbiased investigation into what happened and what can be done to prevent future tragedies. And I think its extreme enough that this guy -- is a 9/11 and Sandy Hook conspiracy theorist to say that these are extenuating circumstances and to call for this guy's resignation.

[12:50:00] BANFIELD: Dan Gross, I appreciate you coming on. Thank you very much for -- for being a guest and for talking to us about your ...

GROSS: Thank you, Ashley.

BANFIELD: ...now look at very, very strident statement, I mean this right here that he needs to resign and thank you so much. I appreciate it.

GROSS: Thank you.

BANFIELD: Coming up next. Life and death matters on the docket as the Supreme Court gets back to work two day. It ranges from abortion to capital punishment, and pretty much everything in between. These are the nine that make your life tick effectively when it comes to the law. And boy, what a docket they need to decide, up next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BANFIELD: Certainly wouldn't be the show "Legal View" if we didn't take note on the first Monday in October. What it is that you say? It's day one of another jam-packed term for the highest court in the nation.

And for sure (inaudible) the term that ended in June can be hard one to top. Remember this? Even the cameras couldn't get it quick enough.

This is the same-sex marriage ruling and a second victory also for ObamaCare. But this year's docket has hot button issues a plenty. Affirmative action is back, capital punishment, voting right, and probably the first big abortion case in eight years in the United States.

And to better to walk us through this, with our Senior Legal Analyst, New York staff writer and bestselling author Jeffrey Toobin who literally wrote the book on "The Nine".

So let's talk about "The Nine" as pertains to the death penalty. This is my big ...

[12:55:33] JEFFREY TOOBIN, CNN SENIOR LEGAL ANALYST: OK. I know. BANFIELD: Big ...

TOOBIN: With many times.

BANFIELD: ...issue we talked about it many times. What exactly is coming to their desks? Is that constitutionality or is that the drug cocktail or it's a little bit of everything?

TOOBIN: It's really going to be a little bit of everything because they decided last term that the drug cocktail is lawful. But, you know, out in the states, the states can't get their acts together. They can't find the cocktail. They can't get the correct drugs. You know, one of the stories that we have talked about many times is that the death penalty is shrinking in the United States. This year, there's only been 22 executions. Last year was 35. All both of which would be record laws, and the Supreme Court though hardly a liberal institution has gradually been shrinking the circumstances when the death penalty is appropriate.

BANFIELD: But the constitutionality, they decided on that. Would Stephen Breyer that sort of kicked his ...

TOOBIN: Stephen Breyer.

BANFIELD: ... hands and said I think this need to be revisited.

TOOBIN: Right. Stephen Breyer joined by Ruth Bader Ginsburg said that we've had it. We think having spent 20 years on this court, there is no way for the court for the death penalty to be constitutionally administered.

Now there are just 2 of 9 justices, and the other seven show no indication of joining on one that issue. But I think it's indicative of the general drift of the country. You know, Texas has not had a single death sentence yet in 2015. Here it is already on October. That's an indication of how the country is moving away from the death penalty.

BANFIELD: OK. I want to talk about the affirmative action case that of Texas, Fisher versus Texas. When I read that I thought, "Oh, this must be a story from a couple of years ago because we did this." And it went to the Supreme Court. And it was decided or at least it was punted, and it's back.

TOOBIN: It's back. It's ...

BANFIELD: ...and explain -- you know, give us the genesis (ph) of what it is.

TOOBIN: Well, basically, the gist here is the Supreme Court has said ever since the '70s that race can be one factor that a university considers in admissions. But it can't be the only factor and they're can't be quotas. And that has been something that's been a real target for the conservatives on the Supreme Court, especially Chief Justice Roberts who really feels this is discrimination against white people who feels that this is just an inappropriate use of ... BANFIELD: Is there a common sense (ph), a clarity (inaudible) skills as well....

TOOBIN: Oh, very much so. Yes.

Yes, it's Clarence Thomas and -- but they had never gotten five votes to outlaw affirmative action altogether. It's very unusual for the Supreme Court to take the exact same case twice.

BANFIELD: Yeah.

TOOBIN: But that's what they are doing with Ms. Fisher's case who is denied admissions at the University of Texas. She says because she's white. And it's really an indication that I think the conservative spill, they can maybe get Justice Kennedy this time around because they haven't quite been able to get five votes to outlaw affirmative action yet.

BANFIELD: By the way, Ms. Fisher, I think now would be in her nearly 20s or 30?

TOOBIN: Yeah, she's 30. She's -- yeah.

(CROSSTALK)

BANFIELD: But I'm waiting what is going to happen.

TOOBIN: I think, you know, last year ...

BANFIELD: But should I really ask you that?

TOOBIN: Yeah sure, what the heck that can be wrong. The Supreme Court had set -- the liberals had such a great year last year with marriage equality, with ObamaCare. I think the conservatives are going to do a lot better this year. Including within debts (ph) who had that abortion restrictions are very likely to be approved.

BANFIELD: You busy tomorrow?

(CROSSTALK)

BANFIELD: ...an open invitation, Jeffrey Toobin, thank you for that. I appreciate it.

Coming up, we have something we want you to take a look at on AC 360 tonight. It's -- Believe it or not, what it's like to be a teenager today.

This is a two-year investigation that looks at how teens use social media. And the psychological toll that it has on these kids. And it involves more than 200 13-year old kids from across the United States. I want you to take a quick look at a clip from tonight's in-depth look at being 13.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I think I'll check that about 100 times at school before. Like I'll just sweep (ph) it out in the middle of the class and I'm like wonder what everybody else is up to.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Why check over 100 times a day even during school? They're really worried about fitting in. Twenty-one percent say ...

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: "I want to makes sure no one is saying mean things about me."

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Thirty-six percent say ...

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: "I want to see if my friends are doing things without me."

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And 61 percent say ...

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: "I want to see if my posts are getting likes and comments".

(END VIDEO CLIP)

[12:59:57] BANFIELD: And you won't believe the number of times they take selfies before they post them.

"Being13: Inside the Secret World Of Teens baring tonight at 9 Eastern, special edition of AC 360.

Thanks for watching everybody. Wolf starts right now.