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Will Biden Run?; 6,000 Federal Inmates Set for Release; U.S. Admits Mistaken Strike on Hospital. Aired 3-3:30p ET

Aired October 06, 2015 - 15:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[15:00:00]

PAMELA BROWN, CNN ANCHOR: I'm Pamela Brown.

And I want to start with a new admission of a deadly mistake, Doctors and children killed as the U.S. drops bombs on a charity hospital in Afghanistan, Doctors Without Borders describing scenes of devastation, being forced to operate on their own colleagues, as patients lie burned in nearby beds.

And, today, General John Campbell was forced to answer questions about what he admits was the United States' decision.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GEN. JOHN CAMPBELL, COMMANDER OF U.S. FORCES IN AFGHANISTAN: To be clear, the decision to provide aerial fires was a U.S. decision made within the U.S. chain of command. A hospital was mistakenly struck.

We would never intentionally target a protected medical facility. I must allow the investigation to take its course. And, therefore, I'm not at liberty to discuss further specifics at this time.

However, I assure you that the investigation will be thorough, objective and transparent.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BROWN: And amid the promises of a full investigation came a pretty startling revelation about the future of America's longest-running war.

The top commander suggesting President Obama's full withdrawal by 2017 may need to be reworked.

So, joining me now from Kabul to discuss, Nic Robertson, CNN senior international diplomatic editor.

So, Nic, the general statement today about what transpired in the moments before the strike pretty different from what we were told yesterday. Is that right?

NIC ROBERTSON, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: It is.

There was a statement from NATO over the weekend that said it was U.S. forces with Afghan forces, and that it was the U.S. forces that were actually under direct fire from the Taliban. So, now a different picture emerges. It was the Afghan forces that were under direct fire from the Taliban. They were the ones who asked U.S. forces on the ground to bring in these airstrikes.

We have also heard new details from Doctors Without Borders at the -- witnesses at the hospital, what they saw happen that night as well.

BROWN: And I want to talk about that, because, as we have learned, Nic, this was the only hospital in the region, but now Doctors Without Borders have pulled out of the region. And they aren't the only ones evacuating, right?

ROBERTSON: No, all the international non-governmental organizations have pulled out. Some of the local NGOs have pulled out. Two U.N. groups have pulled out.

So, there's no humanitarian assistance in that town. It continues to be fought over. The Taliban are holding out in some areas of it. I was talking to people who fled the town today, including the M.P. from that town who has flooded as well.

And they describe a very dire situation. The Taliban still controls all the roads around the town, despite the fact the army is in the middle of the town trying to take control of it again.

BROWN: Nic Robertson, thank you so much for your reporting.

And let's talk more about this with Sahr Muhammedally, a senior program manager at the Center for Civilians in Conflict.

Your group has actually assisted the military directives in Afghanistan and other war zones on how to prevent civilian deaths. When you see something like this happen, what's your reaction, a hospital getting bombed?

SAHR MUHAMMEDALLY, CENTER FOR CIVILIANS IN CONFLICT: Yes.

It was a terrible, tragic event. And we -- immediately, our hearts went out of course to families and for Doctors Without Borders staff that has been so tirelessly working in Kunduz and providing emergency medical care.

And I think it's important, I think, as John Campbell said earlier and as we announced that an investigation is under way both by the U.S. military, as well as by NATO. So, we need to learn exactly what went wrong in calling this airstrike. And I think this was just a terrible mistake, because you have to -- hospitals are a neutral space where anybody can go and seek immediate medical care.

And it is interesting in Afghanistan, even as a lot of lessons were learned on how to prevent civilian casualties and after some very tragic events that took place, for example, in 2007 and 2008, when wedding parties were hit and 80 civilians were killed. But a lot of lessons were learned, new tactical directives and rules were -- and training that were implemented to ensure that civilians are better protected during the crossfire.

So, it is a very tragic incident that happened. So, it's important to learn what went wrong when some of these directives and lessons were identified on how to minimize civilian harm. So, we're waiting to see what the investigation results are and hopefully they will be made public soon.

BROWN: Because, as the hospital has said, it gave over its GPS coordinates to let everyone know where it's located. In this case, we learned from General Campbell that the U.S. sent a special operations team to do recognizance of the area before the airstrikes, which is what we normally do. We do a rigorous review.

MUHAMMEDALLY: Right.

BROWN: From what you see so far, did the U.S. not follow any of the recommendations or directives you have given?

[15:05:02]

MUHAMMEDALLY: Well, I mean, they, themselves, have identified what happened when troops are under fire and how they should respond and what restraints they should impose on they use direct fire when they're under threat.

So, we will have to see. It's very hard for us to speculate what went wrong and when the authorization was given to use fire in response to the threat. And new information is coming out that it was the Afghan forces who called in the airstrikes. So, we will have to see what information comes out.

BROWN: But the U.S. normally won't just -- even if they are called in, they will do their own review before striking a target.

MUHAMMEDALLY: That's true.

Well, sometimes, when -- actually, when you're doing preplanned operations, you have a better idea of how to respond or you have a better idea where the target sets are. But when you are -- when self- defense instances, when you're reacting to under threat or you're under fire, then sometimes there are different rules of engagement that are applied and you are sort of reacting more on the spot.

And that's -- and a lot of times, where even if you look at U.S. and NATO forces' operational data when a lot of civilian harm has occurred. But some of these new preventive measures that were implemented post-2009 and that are in effect, we will have to see what went wrong that they -- in this particular incident that were not followed.

So, we will just have to see, rather than us speculating on what happened once the investigation comes out.

BROWN: Right. Exactly.

And one thing that everyone has come out and really agreed on is that this was a mistake. In fact, I'm just being told in my ear moments ago Ashton Carter, the defense secretary, released a statement saying, "When we make mistakes, we own up to them."

Still a lot more to learn a about this. Sahr, thank you for coming on to discuss.

MUHAMMEDALLY: Thank you so much.

BROWN: And we want to show you new images coming into CNN. The U.S. Coast Guard has just released these images. They're from the search area of that cargo ship that's been missing off the Bahamas since last week. Take a look here.

The El Faro lost propulsion Thursday and was disabled at sea, leaving in floundering in the path of Hurricane Joaquin; 28 Americans and five Polish nationals were on board when the El Faro disappeared. Coast Guard patrols have found a 225-square-square mile debris field, including a damaged lifeboat and survival suits.

And more breaking news at this it hour, tense moments today on board a U.S. jetliner. For the second day in a row, a passenger plane was diverted because of a medical emergency inside the cockpit. United Flight 1614 from Houston to San Francisco was diverted to Albuquerque after the co-pilot became ill and passed out.

The plane landed safely and the co-pilot was able to walk off the aircraft on his own and was taken to a hospital. Just yesterday, an American Airlines flight had to be diverted when the pilot died in the cockpit. That plane, which was bound from Phoenix to Boston, was diverted to Syracuse, New York.

You can imagine pretty unnerving for those passengers on board the plane.

And just into CNN, the Justice Department is about to let thousands of federal inmates get out of jail. It announced that about 6,000 prisoners will be released at the end of the month. Officials say it will be the largest ever one-time release of federal prisoners.

CNN justice reporter Evan Perez is working this story.

We know, Evan -- we both cover the Justice Department. Criminal justice reform has been top of the agenda for Loretta Lynch. What are we learning about this? Why is this happening now?

EVAN PEREZ, CNN JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: Well, this is actually something that began under the former attorney general, Eric Holder. This is something that was on his mind, to tackle the disparity, for instance, in the sentences that people got for possession of crack cocaine vs. cocaine...

BROWN: Right.

PEREZ: ... if you recall.

And the U.S. Sentencing Commission ordered that basically prisoners who had qualified for those harsher sentences be given new sentences. And so what we have now is the Sentencing Commission instructions are being carried out. Judges have looked at these prisoners and have decided that these people can now be let out.

The average time that they have served is about nine years, Pamela. And according to people we have talked to, about a third of them are actually going to be deported. They are going to be turned over to ICE to be deported because they are not U.S. citizens. And this is all happening, obviously, as cities around the country are experiencing a surge in violent crime and murders.

BROWN: Absolutely.

PEREZ: So, this is something that the director of the FBI, Jim Comey, mentioned to reporters last week in a briefing we had at FBI headquarters. And he said, I'm very worried about this. This is something that's going to make me think a little more thoughtfully about this effort to do criminal justice reform, which is something that is now happening on Capitol Hill. The White House is behind this.

This is all part of the effort to save money and the amount of money we save on imprisoning people.

BROWN: Right, but as you point out, Comey very concerned about the rise in violence and doesn't have a really good answer as to why it is.

(CROSSTALK)

PEREZ: No one really knows what's at work.

This -- the juxtaposition of this very large release, as you said, the largest ever...

BROWN: Over a four-day period, right?

PEREZ: Correct.

[15:10:00]

That's going to start happening at the end of this month at a time when cities are seeing this increase in crime. It's going to make some people think -- very, very concerned.

Evan Perez, thank you so much. Good having you on.

And up next, was Joe Biden the one fueling speculation about his own possible run for the White House and about his son's dying wish? The new questions about his plan one week before the first Democratic debate on CNN.

Plus, why does Marco Rubio skip so many votes in the Senate? He's raising eyebrows with a new explanation and he's now responding to a campaign prank from front-runner Donald Trump. And new questions about the Oregon shooter's mother. What did she

know about her son? Hear about online postings that shed some light on her fascination with guns and her troubled son.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[15:15:07]

BROWN: Just in, Defense Secretary Ash Carter has released a statement on the deadly airstrike that hit a charity hospital in Kunduz, Afghanistan.

Our Barbara Starr joins us live on this.

You read through the statement, Barbara, he's clearly choosing his words carefully, saying regret, rather than a full-blown apology, but curious on your thoughts about why he is releasing this now.

BARBARA STARR, CNN PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT: Hi, Pamela.

Well, the secretary knows that there is literally a lot of controversy around this, a firestorm of controversy about what happened in Afghanistan. And it is resonating across the international aid community. Doctors Without Borders, who runs the hospital in Afghanistan, very well respected, and the U.S. military works with them and other aid organizations around the world.

As tragic as this is, it does have very broad implications for military relations with these organizations. So, Secretary Carter issuing another statement now, saying that the Pentagon, the Defense Department deeply regrets the loss of innocent lives.

You're right. He doesn't go for a full-blown we are sorry. This is all under investigation. As a top official, he needs to be careful about any undo influence on the investigation. He's going to step back and wait until it's all done before there is the official apology. These things are often a diplomatic dance of words.

But, today, the top commander, General John Campbell, testifying before Congress, saying the strike obviously was a mistake, and General Campbell ordering a full review, plus retraining for his troops on the rules of when airstrikes are allowed, Doctors Without Borders, obviously, not taking that word at the moment about it being a mistake.

Their view is the U.S. had to have known where the hospital was and the hospital was under attack for 30 minutes. How could this have happened, Pamela?

BROWN: Barbara Starr, thank you so much.

And we have new details today about how the news media learned about the dying wish of Joe Biden's son. Politico is reporting it was Biden himself who leaked that his son Beau wanted him to run for president. "New York Times" columnist Maureen Dowd was the first to write about it and now Politico pointing to multiple sources say Biden was the one who got the ball rolling with Dowd.

CNN national reporter Maeve Reston joins me now to discuss this.

So, Maeve, what was your reaction when you learned this from Politico? Is it surprising that Biden would leak this information himself?

MAEVE RESTON, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, I mean, we know that Joe Biden talks to lots of people about what he was -- it was obviously a time of grieving for him. It was a very emotional moment.

So, exactly how the story came about I think is less important than the fact that he is really seriously considering this and that he's seeing the numbers that could potentially allow him a path here. And certainly that his son was always his biggest champion, encouraged him to run is a huge factor that's weighing on his decision.

BROWN: But some could say so far he's been this emotional, sympathetic figure, but this sort of sheds a new light on him, if he indeed leaked this information, that perhaps he was using his son's death for political advantage. Do you think that that's a fair perception?

RESTON: Well, I think that that's something that the voters will have to decide and look closely at Politico's reporting on this.

And there's obviously a lot of people out there who also don't want Joe Biden to get in the race. So, I think that it can create a perception, that kind of reporting, that he'd have to deal with on the campaign trail, but he certainly has a lot of sympathy from the public right now. He certainly is a beloved figure among the Democrats.

The big question for him is whether he actually can raise enough money to mount a run. He's never been good at that in the past and doesn't like doing it. And Hillary Clinton certainly has got a lot of forces behind her that will be difficult for him to compete with.

BROWN: And speaking of Hillary Clinton, she seems to be distancing herself from President Obama on another major issue. Of course, that is immigration. She did an interview with Spanish-language network Telemundo and she calls the president's deportation policies too harsh. Why do you think she's making this distinction now?

RESTON: Well, I don't think that this was surprising at all. In fact, I think it was really a smart move by her campaign this week.

What they are trying to do is change the conversation. She's been in the barrel, as we know, for quite some time over the e-mail controversy. And this it is an issue where she could really help herself with Latino voters by drawing strong some contrasts with the Obama administration.

[15:20:02]

As we know, the number of deportations went up sharply under President Obama, and a lot of Latinos were not happy about that. She certainly has distanced herself from him not just on immigration, but other policy areas as well, Syria, the Keystone pipeline. We're increasingly seeing her doing that.

And it's something that will grab the voters' attention. It starts a more substantive policy debate, which is where she wants the conversation to go, and takes the campaign to a new phase.

BROWN: Well, I just have to ask you, though, because some would say that in her comments she's sort of ignoring the president's new immigration proposal, which would mean more deportations of criminals, undocumented immigrants and fewer deportations of family members of children who were born here or people who have lived here for more than five years.

RESTON: Right. I mean, those are slight distinctions and not necessarily the ones that it's to Clinton's advantage to talk about on the campaign trail.

She's trying to go for the hearts and minds of Latino voters, talking in a recent interview, for example, about how important it is not to break up families and how she would have been less aggressive than the Obama administration. These contrasts are things that can help her grab voters' attention and get the conversation going in the direction that she wants it to.

BROWN: Maeve Reston, thank you so much. Appreciate it.

RESTON: Thanks.

BROWN: And the Democratic presidential candidates will be on stage together for the first time at the CNN Facebook Democratic debate. It's next Tuesday night, October 13, starting at 8:30 Eastern.

And up next, Marco Rubio in the hot seat for his voting attendance record in the Senate -- how he responded to criticism that he's putting his presidential ambitions above the people he represents.

Plus, new details about how the shooter in the Oregon community college tragedy was raised. "The New York Times" reporting his mom took him to gun ranges despite his mental health issues.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[15:26:11]

BROWN: While he's busy campaigning for the top elected job in the land, Senator Marco Rubio's rivals accuse him of not fully carrying out the duties of the job he already has.

Rubio has missed more votes than any other senator running president in 2016. And his campaign tells CNN he's going to miss a key vote on defense spending today because he will be on the stump in New Hampshire.

Even so, Rubio is defending his voting record. He told "The Today Show" his job is more about casting votes.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) MATT LAUER, CO-HOST, "THE TODAY SHOW": Are you placing your own personal ambitions above your responsibilities to your constituents down in Florida?

SEN. MARCO RUBIO (R-FL), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: No. In fact, the majority of the job of being a senator is not walking on to the Senate floor and lifting your finger on a noncontroversial issue and saying which way you're going to vote.

The majority of the work of a senator is the constituent service, the committee work, and that continues forward unabated. When you run for president -- everyone that's run in the past has faced this -- there are times when you're not going to be there. Now, let me tell you, we have canceled events and traveled across the country to make votes, either -- especially if we can make a difference or if it's a high- profile issue of importance.

LAUER: So, you don't think you're putting your ambitions above the people of Florida?

RUBIO: My ambitions aren't for me. My ambitions are for the country and for Florida and that's why I'm running for president.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BROWN: I'm joined by conservative commentator and columnist Kurt Schlichter and Politico media reporter Dylan Byers.

Great to have you both on.

Kurt, I'm going to start with you, because we just heard Rubio explaining his voting record. Do you think what he said was a smart political move? And is he selling his Florida constituents short?

KURT SCHLICHTER, CONSERVATIVE COMMENTATOR: Well, this is about the silliest critique of a conservative senator that I have ever heard.

I mean, it's just ridiculous. We have a president who lives on the golf course, who made himself famous for voting present when he was in the Illinois legislature. But now it's like a big issue. I would think that liberals would be really excited that Mario wasn't there -- Marco wasn't there casting conservatives vote.

The real problem with Marco Rubio is not whether or not he votes. The people of Florida will make that determination. The real problem with Marco Rubio, especially to us conservatives, is he still hasn't answered the questions on immigration. He flirted with amnesty. He cavorted with Chuck Schumer in the gang of eight. And before any of us conservatives will back him -- and I want to.

My family is Cuban immigrants too. I would love to love the guy, but he has got questions to answer before I will.

BROWN: Dylan Byers, our media reporter here at CNN, just yesterday, Rubio told CNBC he would be there for votes with major national significance or ones that would make a difference. You heard that echoed with his interview with Matt Lauer.

What do you make of the fact, though, that he's missing today's vote on defense spending? Is that a contradiction?

DYLAN BYERS, POLITICO: Well, yes, I think to a degree. Rubio's defense has obviously been, one, I'm busy running for president, and, two, there's more to being a senator than casting every vote.

I would say that, for many conservatives, maybe present company excluded, the bigger issue is missing out on the Planned Parenthood votes, because that -- if you look at the media coverage of that, no one has gone harder after Rubio on that than, say, Breitbart News and some of these other right-wing news outlets.

That's clearly a sticking point for conservatives and it's also something that Jeb Bush can use to hit Rubio and indeed has.

BROWN: And we have heard it from Jeb Bush. We have heard it from Donald Trump as well.

We have seen Rubio all over the place. We just talked about two interviews, except he hasn't been here on CNN in a while. We have reached out to his campaign over and over again, but they have passed. His last appearance on our network was a tense interview with Chris Cuomo in early August.

Dylan, what might this say about his media strategy?

BYERS: Well, I would say two things.

One, Rubio generally has not done as many TV hits as some of your other Republican candidates. And when he does, he quite strategically might go to a place like "The Today Show," which has a huge audience, or somewhere like FOX News, where he's sort of catering to some of the voters he's trying to court.