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Legal View with Ashleigh Banfield

Teenager Shot, Killed by Police During Traffic Stop. Aired 12:30-13:00 ET

Aired October 16, 2015 - 12:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[12:30:35] ASHLEIGH BANFIELD, CNN ANCHOR: Most of us do this, we flash our lights at on coming cars when they don't dim their bright lights and it seems kind of blinding. But in the situation that we're talking about right now, a 17-year-old teenager ended upshot and killed by a policeman after he did just that.

One of the biggest questions is why didn't 17-year-old Devin Guilford just cooperate with the police officer when he was stopped?

Here is a look at some of the exchange.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You have two choices. You can get with the program and start to comply with this traffic stop, or you're going to be taken to jail. Those are the two choices. Driver's license, registration, proof of insurance please.

DEVIN GUILFORD: I do not have my license, sir. I am going to get it.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You don't have your driver's license?

GUILFORD: I do not have it.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Why is that?

GUILFORD: Because I just drove my brother to the church.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You do not have your driver's license on your person, correct?

GUILFORD: Yes, I do.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Where is it?

GUILFORD: You do not have to see it.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BANFIELD: One of the attorneys for Devin Guilford's family is joining me live now to talk a little bit more about this.

Cynthia Heenan, thank you so much for being with me today, I have so many questions about this case.

Can I ask you why it is Devin's family believes that Devin was not at fault or that Devin's actions may not have led to the conclusion that the officer fired justifiably?

CYNTHIA HEENAN, ATTORNEY FOR DEVEN GUILFORD'S FAMILY: Well, from our perspective, it's quite clear I think watching the video that the police officer escalated the encounter throughout the -- throughout that short period of time.

Initially, Devin, as you can see, he just thought that he was doing something helpful being a good citizen and instead of that being recognized, he is being argued with and berated. And I think probably in his view being treated like a criminal. He is a young man obviously he was 17.

BANFIELD: ... I do hear what you are saying -- I hear what you're saying. But I do take issue with the police being the party that escalated this. It seem to me when I watched that and it's entirety that officer asked very nicely seven times for your clients' son to provide him with a driver's license.

And that's not negotiable. You have to do that and it becomes a legal issue for the officer when a driver won't do that.

So did the driver escalate this incident or did the officer escalate this incident?

HEENAN: Well, I take issue with your position that he was required to produce this driver's license, because under Michigan and federal law, it is legal to refuse an unawful police order. And as we have indicated, we don't think the stop was legal.

But the main point is that the officer had so many different opportunities to resolve this situation, de-escalate the situation.

He had already called for backup, and as you know, backup arrived within a minute of the shooting. And in addition, the officer had admittedly and you hear it in the tape stopped two other motorists that evening for doing that same thing.

So clearly he knew either he was driving with the brights on intentionally or he at least knew that this new vehicle he was driving had extraordinarily bright lights.

BANFIELD: It seems that the language in Michigan will have to be questioned here, because it is not 100 percent clear that you can't flicker your lights at an officer.

The wording is glaring, so that will be an issue. But again, I have to take issue with the fact that that was the reason for initial stop.

The reason for the arrest was the non-complicity with the officer, and an officer has the right to ask a driver if he believes there's some kind of probable cause for a driver's license. It is a privilege to drive it is not a constitutional right to drive, the passenger has a different issue altogether, if there were one, there wasn't. But in this instance, the officer himself said on the tape that Devin could have had an entirely different outcome if he had just complied with the request, "Give me your driver's license."

[12:35:10] HEENAN: Well, I assume at that point the officer was not intending to shoot Devin obviously. But...

BANFIELD: I think it's fair to say Cynthia that the officer wasn't intending to shoot Devin. He had stopped several other people for the exact same thing as you correctly pointed out, that there was no intention to shoot anybody that night.

HEENAN: I think one of the issues that this case presents is the assumption which I hear you making that every citizen has an absolute duty to acquiesce a 100 percent to the police authority. And we live in a law and order culture where that is the presumption. And there is also zero risk or zero tolerance for any risk to police officers.

And I think that is the combination of those attitudes is what is leading to the epidemic of people being killed by police in this country.

BANFIELD: Well, you are the lawyer, I'm not, I'm just the journalist trying to get to the bottom of what is in the extraordinarily tragic situation. You know, we often say if people would just comply with what officers are asking when the request is pretty simple, we wouldn't have these escalations, and then a situation where officer, you know, ends up in the ambulance with a bloody face saying that he trying to defend his life.

I think it's very troublesome how this escalated, you know, we'll to see how this -- will you come back on the program as this case proceeds if it does?

HEENAN: I'd be happy too.

BANFIELD: Thank you, Cynthia Heenan, joining us live in Michigan regarding this case.

So we have looked at it from both sides now. But how likely is this to play out in court?

Well, there is a whole different set of reasoning, because it's 12 people, people just like you who sit in a jury box. Again, if it ever goes to court in the first place, that's next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[12:41:19] BANFIELD: We have some breaking news we want to bring you out of Houston right now.

This is just a remarkable scene that has been developing. Our breaking news is that this scaffolding on an apartment block that is under construction has collapsed.

You can see some of the activity behind this collapse, there are a number of responders who were on the scene right now. These images are coming to us from our affiliate KTRK in Houston. And as you pull out in this picture, look at the length of the destruction, the scaffolding apparently spanning the entire length of this building, and there are preliminary, and I will stress preliminary reports at this time that there may be people trapped in this collapse.

We know very little else other than what you're seeing on the screen. But whatever scaffolding apparatus was set up outside of this apartment under construction was extensive. And it looks like just about all of it has come down.

And as we zoom in, you can see some of those first responders and firefighters who are within the actual structure possibly looking for those people if those reports are accurate that there are those who are trapped.

But what is significant here is that the stability of what you're seeing right now could not possibly have been assessed at this early stage. This is an extraordinarily dangerous kind of operation for these first responders to have to go searching in amidst that tangle of construction debris.

Again, scaffolding the length of what looks like almost an entire city block.

Again, these images from KTRK in Houston, Texas.

We know very little else other than that, but we will continue to watch the story for you, just a remarkable scene now developing there.

I want to get back to that other story that we just left you with before the break. It was that senseless death of a teenager in Michigan, just 17-years-old. Here he is in better times, pulled over though by an officer after flashing his lights.

After that, not complying with the officer's orders, I just spoke with one of the attorneys for the teenagers' family. That family is now suing for wrongful death.

HLN Legal Analyst Joey Jackson is here.

The attorney seemed to concentrate this entire case, Joey on the initial stop almost as though everything afterwards doesn't count if that stop wasn't legal, then that officer had no right to ask for the driver's license.

I am no lawyer, but I know you have to give a driver's license when asked.

JOEY JACKSON, HLN LEGAL ANALYST: You really do.

BANFIELD: If you're the driver.

JACKSON: Sure, I mean from the human element, there's a child dead and, you know, in recognition of that, it's horrible. And the family must feel, you know, just I can't imagine. From a legal perspective though, you have to look -- I always say Ashleigh to every client who asks and people who don't, comply now and grieve later.

And so what happens is that you have to look at the point of escalation. You have a stop. You got to debate the legalities of it. The issue is if the flashing a tigering of a light, and the officer felt it inappropriate. And enlight of that stopped him.

At that point he asked him several times for the license. There's lack of compliance. He gets out of the car. He does not want to come out. The officer orders him out, there's a lack of compliance.

He's out of the car and officer says -- he says "Get down." There's no compliance. The officer says "Get the cell phone away." There's no compliance.

It escalates from there. Now we don't see the critical 14 seconds on that video but if you blow it frame by frame, it appears is though, there's some kind of altercation.

Now what we do know also is that there was a medical examiner, who examined and apparently the shots were from the front. The shot the officer fire were frontal shot, and the trajectory there was an indication of some type of struggle.

So the question then becomes was the officer reasonable fear of his life sought that he needed to act in a deadly way. And that's going to address the lawsuit whether or not they have a suit. But from the looks of the tape, it appears is though the officer acted in accord with what the officer needed to do under those circumstances.

[12:45:11] BANFIELD: And to be so clear, the attorney, you know, disrespect and I am not a lawyer, but it is not your right to refuse to hand over your driver's license. If an officer that window asking, assert your rights in court later.

JACKSON: Absolutely.

BANFIELD: Yes.

JACKSON: Assert you rights. You think the officer...

BANFIELD: Thank you.

JACKSON: You think the officer did something wrong. You think you don't like the way you treated. Go to court, and let the lawyer resolve it, don't take into your hands, but the case is going to turn on what happened outside of that car and was the officer in imminent fear of his life such that he needed to fire, and if the question is yes, the lawsuit goes a away.

BANFIELD: Everyone one of us with children is just so disconcerted when we see this kind of thing 17 years old.

Joey Jackson, thank you for that. JACKSON: Thank you Ashleigh.

BANFIELD: I only want to interrupt because I want to go back to our Breaking News. We're just compiling some additional information. Here the wide shot outside of that apartment building, and you can see how extensive that scaffolding was, in advance of it collapsing and then just last section, presumable might be what it was before the collapse.

We have been scanning these pictures to find out any more information so see if there are in fact people trap, more coming up after the break.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

[12:50:54] UNIDENTIFIED MALE: 16-year-old James Langevin was volunteering at a local police station when an officer's gun accidentally discharged.

REP. JAMES LANGEVIN, (D) RHODE ISLAND: The bullet ricocheted off of the locker which was I'm told. And then the bullet went to my neck and severed my spinal cord.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Langevin was paralyzed from the waist-down. And has limited mobility in his arm.

LANGEVIN: The question I had right from the get-go, how am I going live? In the kind of meaningful like going forward.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: But Langevin did just that. He attended college, went to Harvard Kennedy School of Government, and ones elected a Democratic congressman for the state of Rhode Island. Motivated he says by his own desire to prove the naysayers wrong.

LANGEVIN: I would hear that, well, you're a nice guy but, you know, this is proper case (ph) and so better up doing something else. And so many time they can't do something that, you know, I'll find a way.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He did find a way. On the 20th anniversary of the Americans with Disabilities Act, Langevin made history.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: For the first time in our country's history, a gentleman with the challenges that Mr. Langevin faces is preceding as Speaker of the House of Representative.

LANGEVIN: I hope that the people can look at me and say, you know, here is a guy with tremendous challenges and difficulty, but somehow, he has made it.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BANFIELD: I want to get you back to the Breaking News out of Houston, two images on the screen, one the wide shot, and two the close-up shot of what is left after a massive section of scaffolding collapsed at an apartment building under construction in Houston. Close-up, you can see that the firefighter moving with within the rubble possibly looking for the people who may be trapped. It is unclear at this point if there are any fatalities in this instance, and this is KPRK's image coming to us here at CNN.

But we can tell you this. It took only three minute for firefighters and responders to get to the scene after this absolute building calamity. It maybe not looking from the perspective that you're seeing right now to be as significant as it is, but this stands what look like almost to be an entire city block of scaffolding. And how it is that so much of it could have collapsed all at once is pretty remarkable.

When we get to the wider shot, and unfortunately, we are not controlling these pictures, but the helicopter that is flying overhead is doing it best to sort of get the entire scope of the devastation here. But there is only one small section of this scaffolding still standing, and yet, all of the others seem to have almost collapsed domino style down the length of the building. Again, with the number of firefighters responding, it is hard to know just what they are finding and what they are looking for at this time, but we can tell you this, strictly through witnesses only, there has been one person led away on a stretcher at this time. And I cannot underscore the significance of the danger for these firefighters who are now crawling, and walking, and kicking their way through this collection off what looks like matchstick debris that is entirely dangerous at every point, the integrity of this is not at all safe. It has already been compromised and it is extraordinarily dangerous to do what they are doing, but they are making their way through a lengthy portion of this building to see what they can find.

Just a remarkable scene again a downtown Houston apartment building, apparently under construction, and if, you know, the area, it is 300 Crawford at Congress. That's the location, and the authorities are asking all in Houston to stay away from this area. And if you are less familiar with the address, it is right across from Minute Maid Park.

Our images are coming to us from the helicopter at KPRC, and we have KPRK's images up as well, and you can see them removing these boards. For those who're sports fans, you might recognize that location, because this is the location where Houston Astros play.

[12:55:00] But again so little information coming into us other than this is just only happened in the last 45 minutes, the call coming into the police that the scaffolding collapsed. Sadly for those who work on the scene, you know, the call to work would have come fairly early, and this is 11:10 in the morning Central Time, that this collapse apparently happened, so if it was an active building site, there would have been a lot of people who reported to work more than likely by 11:00 in the morning.

So we're going to continue to monitor this, and it is truly a remarkable scene. I wish that we had that wider shot for you to show that there is only one small section in a very long, almost a city- long block that collapsed, an entire scaffolding along this building with only one small portion standing. CNN is going to continue to follow this and watch the developments and we'll have all of that for you. In the meantime I'm going to hand things over to Wolf who starts right this quick break.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[13:00:11] JIM SCIUTTO, CNN CHIEF NATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: Hello, I'm Jim Sciotto in today for Wolf Blitzer. It is 1:00 p.m. here in Washington. 8:00 p.m. in Istanbul. 9:30 p.m.