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Six Construction Workers Injured After Scaffolding Collapsed; Will VP Biden Join the Race?; Prelude to Hillary Clinton's Appearance Before Benghazi Committee; President Obama and South Korean President Hold News Conference; Smuggling Refugees for a Price. Aired 1:30-2p ET

Aired October 16, 2015 - 13:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[13:30:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)

JIM SCIUTTO, CNN ANCHOR: I want to give you an update on the breaking news story we told you about just moments ago. We have now learned that five construction workers were taken to the hospital after a scaffolding collapsed in Houston, Texas.

You're seeing live pictures of it right there. Firefighters continuing to search the rubble for other possible victims. We're going to continue to follow the story; we'll keep you updated once we get more details.

Will he or won't he? Vice President Joe Biden may be close to a decision on whether to enter the presidential race. One senior Democratic official tells CNN that Biden could decide by this weekend.

Now the strategist involved in the deliberation says the decision may not come, though, until the end of the month. One possible indication he may be running, sources tell CNN, that Biden has been calling strategists in key states asking about how, not whether, to launch a campaign.

I want to bring in our panel, Angela Rye, she is a political strategist and former executive director of the Congressional Black Caucus, Amanda Carpenter, she's a CNN political commentator, former communications director for Senator Ted Cruz.

[13:35:00] Angela, I want to thank and begin with you. Joe Biden, we're told that his family says they are totally on board. That has been a key deciding factor for him. But then you have the debate, and Hillary Clinton was very much in charge there and there was a conventional wisdom that hey, perhaps the Vice President had missed his chance What do you think?

ANGELA RYE, POLITICAL STRATEGIST AND FORMER EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR OF THE CONGRESSIONAL BLACK CAUCUS: Sure. I think a number of people are saying that in all effects (ph) the data or polls are saying that she really won the debate. Everyone went like, Oh, I have the media in the tank for Hillary and that's why. But respondents are saying, too, that they thought she won the debate, which to so many people met, that was the window closing. And of course there's also conventional wisdom and a lot of folks that are talking about it would be the Benghazi hearing that would dictate whether or not he gets in, which of course is on the 23rd.

So there's still a lot of room but I think the fact that he is not asking if and the fact that he is asking how is a key indicator that it may be something very different.

There was also an e-mail that went out to pass volunteers and staffers for Biden saying that they may need folks to gear up.

SCIUTTO: Exactly why I want to ask you, Amanda, from the Republican perspective. It is a field with Joe Biden in it, more or less intimidating for the GOP field.

RYE: I think Republicans would welcome the prospect of Joe Biden running. Think of a debate stage with Hillary Clinton, Joe Biden, and Bernie Sanders. Does anything more, say, old establishment, corrupt D.C. (ph) than the three of them, and it's very hard to picture a, you know, a Democrat as the agent of hope and change by people who have been in Washington for decades and decades and decades.

So I think Republican should well commit and I think Democrats should, too, because honestly they need a better insurance policy against Hillary Clinton and Bernie Sanders.

SCIUTTO: You get the chance to respond (ph).

RYE: Yes. Certainly not corrupt. I think that there are a number of people in the Democratic Party that have been saying this all week, that want a third term of President Obama. He certainly represents that ...

(CROSSTALK)

AMANDA CARPENTER, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Don't have a (inaudible) campaign on that.

RYE: Oh, I'm sure. I would bet you good money on that. I'm not a betting woman. I think the other thing is, when you think about establishment inside the beltway, that's not what Joe Biden represents. He has been here a long time but he is to commute to Delaware every single day. And that's what most ...

(CROSSTALK)

CARPENTER: So most to America...

(CROSSTALK)

SCIUTTO: Forty years in the senate, I will -- it would have been a little bit of a beltway (inaudible) figure out. I want to talk about the Republican race because we got some figures on fundraising, and you saw good numbers from a number of candidates including George Bush, Jeb Bush, rather. Not the bad one...

CARPENTER: Same thing.

SCIUTTO: (Inaudible) including Jeb Bush. What do you see those numbers? What struck you in the fundraising figures?

CARPENTER: Well the most remarkable thing to me is the burn rate that some many of them had, like Ben Carson. It was remarkable that he raised $20 million but he spent $11 million of that on fundraising.

And you know, I pay close attention to my former boss, Ted Cruz. He had a great fundraising quarter and he has more money in the bank because he spent so conservatively than Jeb Bush or Ben Carson even though he didn't have the biggest haul.

And so, you have to look at the burn rate, that's what did end Governor Perry, Governor Walker. If they aren't spending it well, they're not going to last long.

SCIUTTO: Angela, on the Democratic side, Hillary Clinton and Bernie Sanders together raising more than $50 million. But between them, again, both continuing to haul (ph) it in right ...

RYE: Yes.

SCIUTTO: ... both seeming to have staying power based on it.

RYE: Absolutely. And I think the other thing you have to look at is Bernie Sanders had a remarkable night as well, of course there's a tiff about whether or not he won versus Hillary, but he raised $2 million just off of the (inaudible) e-mails comment (ph).

So he's doing very well there. I think that he won't have any challenges with Bernie Sanders or Hillary Clinton raising money. They just short (ph) up their bases even further.

SCIUTTO: I want to talk about the next Republican debate, that's going to be on CNBC later this month, and Carson and Trump both said, we're not going to take part if it's another one of these endless debates.

It's going to be two hours. There's got to be opening and closing statements. Lo and behold! The CNBC is basically two hours. They're going to have opening and closing statements. Does that show the power of these candidates here?

(CROSSTALK)

RYE: It sounds like ...

(CROSSTALK)

SCIUTTO: And so they're dictating it.

(CROSSTALK)

RYE: ... to the other people. I mean, this is a pretty blatant play. You have the two front runners trying to limit the time of their opponents so they can take that chip out of them. They're saying, I don't want to have as much talking time.

I don't want you to have the ability to take me down, and so I should think it really should be viewed not so much a power play of Trump against CNBC, but Trump against the other Republicans in the field.

SCIUTTO: Yes. I think ...

RYE: yes. I think -- I also think that he liked the format of the Democratic debate. They had opening and closing statements, so that is an opportunity ...

SCIUTTO: Well they also have five candidates now ...

RYE: I was agreeing when you said it. The funny thing is, Donald Trump is complaining about airtime. He's got more airtime than anyone including the folks who are paying for it. He's not paying for it.

CARPENTER: Well now he's up in double digits.

RYE: Wall-to-wall coverage. (Inaudible) anything change for him.

SCIUTTO: Angela and Amanda, thanks so much for joining us. We look forward to talking again.

One programming note, CNN will be wearing this week's Democratic debate, that's at 10 o'clock tonight, Eastern Time. For anyone who missed it or for your political (inaudible) can't get enough of it, be sure to watch CNN tonight, that's at 10 o'clock, Eastern.

And you're looking at live pictures from the White House East Room. President Obama and South Korea's president expected to come to the mics for joint news conference shortly. As soon as that begins, we're going to bring it to you live here on CNN.

And just ahead, a prelude to Hillary Clinton's appearance next week before the Benghazi committee we were just talking about. Clinton's top aide spent the morning behind closed doors telling the committee what she knows. We'll have more after this.

[13:40:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)

SCIUTTO: You're looking at live pictures from the White House East Room. We are waiting for a news conference from President Obama and the South Korean President that will come any minute now. We will bring that to you, live, once it begins.

[13:45:00] In other news, Hillary Clinton campaigns in South, in New Hampshire today, and she'll be interviewed by CNN Jake Tapper this afternoon at 4:00 pm, Eastern. But overshadowing her campaign is her appearance next Thursday before the House Select committee on Benghazi.

Just a few hours ago, Clinton's closest aide, Huma Abedin, went before the committee in a closed-door session. Clinton's campaign dismissed it as part of a political vendetta.

Republicans focused on Huma, of all people, she said, and their decision to leak details about her appearance is just another tactic in their partisan plan to go after Hillary Clinton, so says the campaign.

CNN Senior Political Reporter, Manu Raju, he is covering this for us. He is up on Capitol Hill right outside that room where these hearings are taking place.

Manu, do we know what Huma Abedin might have told the committee today?

MANU RAJU, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL REPORTER: Yes. Hey, Jim. You know, the committee just reconvened after a lunch break and after about three hours of questioning from Ms. Abedin this morning.

We're expecting this to go on for several more hours this afternoon. The committee is really focusing on what she knew before, during, and after those 2012 Benghazi attacks.

Now, I talked to Lynn Westmoreland, he's a Republican from Georgia, about what she said in the hearing room, and what are you saying that she didn't recall a lot of those episodes from the 2012 attacks?

He's trying to, I think, portray or something someone who is not involved in the government response, and Democrats are saying that, look, this is just a partisan witch hunt, and that's why they're bringing someone who is not involved.

And the response before the committee, Elijah Cummings was the ranking member on the Benghazi committee, came out and talked about his concerns with bringing in Ms. Abedin before the committee today. Here's what he had to say.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ELIJAH CUMMINGS, RANKING MEMBER ON THE BENGHAZI COMMITTEE: The question also becomes whether this is a taxpayer-funded effort to derail the candidacy of Hillary Clinton.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

RAJU: Now, of course, through the Republicans dispute that didn't say that Ms. Abedin's appearance is critical given that she's been a loyal ally for about 15 years for Ms. Clinton, of course, and also there was an e-mail that was released, a part of the batch of e-mails, where she's discussing the Benghazi-related response, that's an October 29, 2012 e-mail that's certainly going to be part of the questions as well, and when I asked Mr. Westmoreland about whether why they're even bringing her in, he said that she had to know something given that she worked so closely with Ms. Clinton over the years.

So we'll see if she actually what she actually says to the committee, of course, is happening, Jim, behind closed doors.

There will be a transcript of the proceedings but we will not know exactly what she said unless people start to talk about it afterwards and we'll be (inaudible) that very closely, Jim.

SCIUTTO: So this hearing has became more than about Benghazi, of course. It's these hearings that led to the release of Clinton's e- mails, private e-mails, server, et cetera.

It's even a story (ph) in The "New York Times," they're quoting FBI officials involved in that investigation saying that they felt interfered with by the President's comments to CBS this weekend saying that he didn't believe that the e-mail release uses any classified information endanger U.S. National Security as a result of those e- mails being on the private server.

I want ask you, is that seen on Capitol Hill, those comments from the President as an interference with this ongoing FBI investigation?

RAJU: Certainly, Republicans feel that way, that the President should not be discussing what was in those e-mails when that inquiry is still going on. You're hearing a lot of frustration from members because of the President's comments and of course from the FBI, according to the "New York Times" report from this morning.

You know, the Republicans are also frustrated that their own members, who are not part of this committee, continue to talk about this being a political effort to go after Hillary Clinton.

So both sides are getting a little bit nervous about what people from the outside are saying weighing in on what's happening behind closed doors here, Jim.

SCIUTTO: Manu Raju, up on the Hill, thanks again. Once again, CNN's Jake Tapper is going to sit down with Hillary Clinton later today. It is Clinton's first major interview since Tuesday's democratic debate here on CNN. Be sure to watch "The Lead" today at 4:00 pm, Eastern, and we'll be right back.

[13:50:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)

SCIUTTO: A man who allegedly stole U.S. military personnel records and gave them to ISIS has been arrested in Malaysia. The 20-year-old man is accused of illegally obtaining the names and photos, addresses and other sensitive data on more than 1,300 U.S. service members and federal employees.

He then allegedly shared that data with ISIS operatives. CNN justice reporter, Evan Perez, has more on this troubling story. So, why is it (inaudible) and calling this the first case of its kind?

EVAN PEREZ, CNN JUSTICE REPORTER: Well, it's very rare actually for them to have something that combines cybercrime and terrorism. So that's what the combination that we have here.

It's a very unique case, and the suspect's name is Ardit Ferizi. He's under arrest by Malaysian authorities. He was arrested about a month ago.

The FBI says that he was stealing this information from web sites, scraping it, putting it together, we're talking about e-mail addresses, photos, phone numbers, addresses of members of the military, 1,300 of them in all and then he was providing it to this cyber caliphate, this group of hackers who has been working for ISIS, one of them is Junaid Hussain who was killed, you might recall, in a U.S. strike in Syria in August.

SCIUTTO: And he was believed to have recruited one of the shooters in Texas.

PEREZ: Right. Exactly. He's been a prolific ISIS recruiter and, you know erasing him from the battlefield has been a big victory for the United States, and now this case is also a big one.

SCIUTTO: So this data, I suppose the sad thing about this data about soldiers' names and (inaudible) that's already out there. It's already in ISIS.

(CROSSTALK)

SCIUTTO: Nothing you can do about that.

PEREZ: That's right, exactly. They've been warned that, you know, you shouldn't put the stuff on publicly accessible websites and they've also been told, you know, your stuff is out there so be careful, you know.

SCIUTTO: It's a difficult thing to do though.

PEREZ: Exactly.

SCIUTTO: In the social media. I know that they deal -- you know, the military, is you kind of constant directives about what you can and can't do but that's a hard thing to keep a lid on.

[13:55:00] PEREZ: Especially when you're talking about a generation of younger soldiers who are so used to sharing pretty much everything online.

SCIUTTO: And also when the Federal government can't protect that data.

(CROSSTALK)

SCIUTTO: ... its own hands.

(CROSSTALK)

SCIUTTO: very quickly, there's another report saying that ISIS has been trying to attack -- hack into the U.S. electrical grid, is that considered a serious threat?

PEREZ: It's not yet. I mean, they don't see any sophistication by these hackers that work for ISIS just yet, but it is something that people are concerned about because, you know, this stuff is -- you can - 14-year-olds can do this kind of thing. So the concern is there and it's real.

SCIUTTO: Right. No question. Evan Perez, thanks very mu8ch for joining us.

Yesterday, President Obama talked about the future of the Afghan people as part of the reason for keeping U.S. troop levels steady there for longer.

But more than a decade of war, poverty and growing instability in Afghanistan is feeling a mass exodus out of the country and into Europe. The top destination is Germany. CNN International Diplomatic Editor, Nic Robertson, spoke exclusively with a man who smuggles these refugees out for a price.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

NIC ROBERTSON, CNN INTERNATIONAL DIPLOMATIC EDITOR: I'm meeting a people smuggler.

ROBERTSON: How many people have you taken to Europe?

Fifteen hundred to Germany in the past six months, he tells me, the most popular destination.

We can't show his face because what he does is illegal.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE, THROUGH TRANSLATION: We take People to Germany from three different routes. By the sea for $7,000. We take people by road and foot for $9,000, and we take people by air for $20,000.

ROBERTSON: Tough dollar, he tells me, buys a black market Visa and direct flights. Anything less could cost your life.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE, THROUGH TRANSLATION: We have had our clients injured and even killed along this journey. Just 15 days ago, 70 people are caught by Iranians and deported from the Turkish border, which included 15 of my clients.

ROBERTSON: But there are plenty here who are ready to take the risk. Before dawn, the line outside Kabul's passport office stretches several blocks. People worried about the faltering economy, worried about war.

ROBERTSON: Getting a passport has never been so popular, people here say. These lines are never so long. Precisely how many plan to flee is hard to nail down, but only estimates this year already say the number of Afghans arriving in Europe is second only to the number of Syrians and how they get there, starts right here.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE, THROUGH TRANSLATION: Omar Saboor runs the passport office.

ROBERTSON: How many people are applying for passports everyday?

OMAR SABOOR, PASSPORT OFFICER: Everyday, more than 7,000 or 6,000 people.

ROBERTSON: None here are ready to admit their plans, but Saboor knows many will leave. UNIDENTIFIED MALE, THROUGH TRANSLATION: He tells me, since Europe opened its doors to refugees, we've seen that direct increase in the number of people applying for passports.

ROBERTSON: For the smuggler, each passport holder is a business opportunity.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE, THROUGH TRANSLATION: They leave their money with a trusted person, for instance, a money dealer. As soon as the person reaches his destination, then he calls the money dealer to give us the money.

ROBERTSON: But as he explains, if the person doesn't get through, he still gets paid.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE, THROUGH TRANSLATION: Our goal is that we try three times, but if the person couldn't reach his destination after three attempts, he has to pay us.

ROBERTSON: There sure is certainty it seems, smugglers always win. Nic Robertson, CNN Kabul, Afghanistan.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SCIUTTO: The Canadian Ambassador, who helped rescue six Americans during the Iranian hostage crisis, has died. Ken Taylor played a key role in what became known as the Canadian Caper. More than 50 Americans were taken hostage at the U.S. Embassy in Iran in 1979. It was Taylor who helped hide six Americans who then eluded capture and were able to get out of Iran using Canadian passports.

The real-life drama was the basis for the 2012 hit movie, "Argo," starring Ben Affleck. Taylor's actions earned praise from both the U.S. and the Canadian governments. Ambassador Ken Taylor was 81 years old.

And a quick update now on a developing story we told you about earlier this hour. We have now learned that six construction workers have been taken to the hospital after a scaffolding collapsed in Houston, Texas.

Those are pictures you're seeing there. The injuries are not believed to be life-threatening.

[14:00:00]