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Legal View with Ashleigh Banfield

Race for the White House; Deadly Parade Crash; South Asia Earthquake. Aired 12-12:30p ET

Aired October 26, 2015 - 12:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[12:00:00] JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: Worse than they're eerie. There's no more entitled person than someone who doesn't like quiet in the (INAUDIBLE).

KATE BOLDUAN, CNN ANCHOR: I sat in the quiet car once and I will never do it again.

BERMAN: You are like Chris Christie.

BOLDUAN: That's right. Chris Christie, call me.

Thanks so much for joining us "AT THIS HOUR."

BERMAN: LEGAL VIEW with Ashleigh Banfield starts next.

ASHLEIGH BANFIELD, CNN ANCHOR: Hello, everyone. I'm Ashleigh Banfield. And welcome to LEGAL VIEW.

We begin with a presidential front-runner who is lashing out and a surprisingly distant rival who's scrambling to stay in. Donald Trump is not taking kindly to the polls like this one, which has just released, by the way, from Monmouth University. It is the third poll in five days showing that Trump is running a clear number two to Ben Carson. Trump has sunk five points since the August Monmouth poll, and Carson has risen nine.

In the meantime, Jeb Bush is fighting just to stay in the fight. He's cutting staff. He's cutting budgets. At the same time, he's trying to reassure donors with help from some big names, like Bush 41 and Bush 43.

We have it all covered with our team of correspondents and analysts. Joe Johns is live in New Hampshire with Donald Trump. Mark Preston is covering Ben Carson. He's live in Washington, D.C. Political commentator Van Jones is live in L.A. And Republican strategist Lisa Boothe is live in Washington, D.C.

All right, you four, can't wait. This has been, what - such a weekend watching these headlines. I want to start with you, Joe Johns. Donald Trump is getting a little ugly in the way he's going on the offensive at a time when he had said he wouldn't go and hit people unless he was hitting back. He's hitting. He's doing it first. He's going after Ben Carson's religion. He's going after Ben Carson's energy level. And it makes many wonder if it's all about the numbers, because he's sinking. JOE JOHNS, CNN SENIOR WASHINGTON CORRESPONDENT: Well, he is. He's

advancing. He's being more aggressive. Certainly, when it comes to Ben Carson, he's attacking Carson on his energy levels, as you said, questioning what A Seventh Day Adventist is.

But for the audience here in New Hampshire, Ashleigh, I can tell you, he was typical Donald Trump. He looked at the audience square in the face, talked to them about the polls that he's doing very well in, downplayed the polls in Iowa where he is trailing Carson. So there's also the fact that there's a new AP poll out that really goes to his favor, suggesting that 70 percent of Republicans say he's the most electable candidate, followed by Carson and Jeb Bush at 60 percent and Marco Rubio even further down. So, if Donald Trump is running scared, he is certainly not showing it, and I don't think we would expect him to, Ashleigh.

BANFIELD: Joe Johns, I could not believe my ears when I heard Donald Trump talking to Matt Lauer this morning on this town hall on the "Today" show, and he was talking about how life has been tough for him. He hasn't had it so easy. He had to get a $1 million loan from his dad. And that's - that's just the beginning of it because it turns out, if you look back over Donald Trump's past, he had upwards of $40 million worth of inheritance. That's assets and cash and anything else that his dad passed along to him. But $40 million inherited and a $1 million loan from your dad. And he had the audacity to say, it hasn't been easy. Is he rolling that back? Is he owning that? How is he reacting to saying that live on television?

JOHNS: Well, first I think you have to listen to the comment, and we can label it right now as potentially controversial. But let's hear what he had to say to Matt Lauer on the "Today" show this morning.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: It has not been easy for me. And, you know, I started off in Brooklyn. My father gave me a small loan of $1 million. I came into Manhattan, and I had to pay him back and I had to pay him back with interest.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

JOHNS: Now, certainly, $1 million is a lot of money to most people in this United States, and even more money back when he set out on his own in Manhattan. But the point Donald Trump was making is that, for where he started, he started out with relatively little money compared to where he is today. The important point I think you have to make is that this is part of Donald Trump's narrative. He has always pointed to the fact that he is very rich. As a matter of fact, he uses that as an argument for why he should be president of the United States -- very rich, very successful. The question, of course, is how that plays to the general public. But you can certainly say that a lot of his supporters have already accepted the fact that Donald Trump is deep pockets, Ashleigh.

BANFIELD: Sure, sure, it's fine. I think he's capitalized on the idea that he's very rich. He doesn't make any bones about it. People love that honesty. But then to turn around and say it hasn't been easy. I borrowed $8,000 from my mother once. I paid back with interest. And I thought I had a bonus.

JOHNS: I am not hearing (INAUDIBLE).

[12:05:14] BANFIELD: Joe, we lost you IFP (ph). All right, I'll let you go. Thanks, Joe Johns.

I want to turn now to Mark Preston, the executive editor of CNN Politics. He's covering Ben Carson.

I don't think Ben Carson would probably ever imagine throwing out terms like $1 million or $2 million or, you know, paying your parents back with interest, that kind of thing, but he is that understated guy who is that quiet traction and yet understated with attention-grabbing comments. His latest one getting a lot of ink, and that is linking abortion to slavery. Can you walk us through this?

MARK PRESTON, CNN POLITICS EXECUTIVE EDITOR: Sure. No doubt, Ashleigh. Listen, he has confounded the political types right now, wondering, how is Ben Carson doing so well in the polls? He has not run a traditional campaign, and he is 180 degrees different than Donald Trump. But what he is similar to Donald Trump in is that he does make controversial remarks. You know, he has said that homosexuality is a choice. He has said that Obamacare is the worst thing in this country since slavery. And this past weekend, he compared slavery to abortion.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BEN CARSON (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: We've allowed the purveyors of the vision to make mothers think that that baby is their enemy and that they have a right to kill it. Can you see how perverted that line of thinking is? During slavery - and I know that's one of those words you're not supposed to say, but I'm saying it - during slavery, a lot of the slave owners thought that they had the right to do whatever they wanted to that slave. Anything that they chose to do. And, you know, what if the abolitionists had said, you know, I don't believe in slavery. I think it's wrong. But you guys do whatever you want to do. Where would we be?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PRESTON: And there - and there you have Ben Carson comparing abortion to slavery. Now, I have to say that one of the reasons he's probably doing so well in Iowa right now in those Iowa polls is his very vocal opposition to abortion, which is a very big issue for evangelical voters who have an outsized influence in the Iowa Republican Party, Ashleigh.

BANFIELD: Mark Preston, thank you for that. Do appreciate it.

And just when we thought this race couldn't get more exciting, with me now, CNN political commentator Van Jones and Republican strategist Lisa Boothe.

Welcome to the both of you. : Hi, Ashleigh.

BANFIELD: Hi, guys.

So we've talked about two front-runners, and then there's Jeb. What happened to Jeb? And this weekend, this mass meeting down in Houston with dad and brother and mom and the big wigs and the fund-raisers and the donors, I guess, Van, the question becomes, is this the last desperate grab to make sure that the campaign doesn't go under, or is that way ahead of the - is that just - that's just hyperbole?

VAN JONES, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Well, you know, we don't know yet, but this is - it's unprecedented for someone to go and bring two former presidents, happen to be their relatives, to kind of shore up the base. You know, here's the thing, we can make fun of this, but I think it's an opportunity for us to look at this man and try to see, what is his character under fire, under pressure? Does he lash out? Does he blame others? Does he take responsibility?

Everybody goes through a time of testing. Six weeks ago we were writing off Hillary Clinton. I remember when John Kerry was wandering around the vast tundra of American politics, everybody had written him off. Everyone goes through a time of testing. This is his time of testing. And I think people try to look past, you know, daddy, mommy, big brother. What is this man like under fire when the chips are down? And it's hard to see because he's got so many of his relatives around him.

BANFIELD: Yes. I want to - I want to switch to another Floridian, and I want to play something that our Jamie Gangel did in an interview with Marco Rubio. He commented on all the sort of harsh fighting between Trump and Carson, effectively talked about all the infighting in the race. Have a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. MARCO RUBIO (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I don't think there's a line where we all wait and just hand the presidency off to each other because you've paid your dues. This is an important moment in American history, but I'm not running against Jeb Bush, I'm not running against Ben Carson, I'm not running against Ted Cruz, I'm running for president.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BANFIELD: So, Lisa, that's nice. That is the nice thing to say, and it sounds nice, but we all know how politics really works, and the tough slugging really works. Do you think he can stick to this strategy?

LISA BOOTHE, REPUBLICAN STRATEGIST: Well, and you're absolutely right, look, politics is a bare-knuckled industry, but I do think that this is one of the reasons why people are drawn to Marco Rubio. He is such a great speaker. And i do believe a lot of Republicans would like to see a little less infighting and more of the focus on Hillary Clinton. But we're also seeing this on the left with barbs traded between Bernie Sanders and Hillary Clinton. So, I think this is the nature of the business.

And Marco Rubio, I believe, is so well positioned here because as we've seen, Jeb Bush's campaign, he is trying to resuscitate it right now. And I think Marco Rubio can be the one that can sort of step in and pick up a lot of that support, pick up a lot of those donors. And I really think that he has a story that, you know, could really be favorable among general election voters, and that story of someone who came from immigrant families, who came here, worked multiple jobs to get ahead, and he really can speak to that American dream that so many Americans are struggling with, just to get ahead in this economy.

[12:10:26] BANFIELD: Well, there are a lot of people who think the American dream is based on Tea Party values. And if you look at the most recent Gallup poll, the numbers might be a little shocking. Look at the drop in support across the United States for the Tea Party. It was 32 percent just five years ago. It is now down to 17 percent.

I'm going to get you both to comment on it briefly, if you will. Start with you, Van.

JONES: OK.

BANFIELD: The significance of a poll like that on the way the GOP contenders start framing their message.

JONES: Well, first of all, it's interesting, the Tea Party came out because government was so unpopular, Congress was so unpopular. Tea Party numbers are now down with the rest of the political establishment. So that - it lets you know that maybe they've been absorbed a little bit in terms of the public consciousness.

I think that - I don't see the front-runners in the Republican Party paying attention to these kind of numbers. I think they're looking at the most fired-up part of their base, and that, frankly, still remains Tea Party. I don't think you're going to see people running away from Tea Party values. They may not run away from the label - I mean they may not embrace the label, but many of the values and the ideas are now mainstream for this party.

BANFIELD: (INAUDIBLE) platforms.

Lisa, what do you think?

BOOTHE: Well, look, I think part of what you're seeing right now, which why - you know, Ben Carson and Donald Trump are sort of the front-runners right now, they think Americans, and especially the Republican Party right now, they're really sick and tired of politician. If you look, "The Washington Post" had a survey out not too long ago where 72 percent of voters found politicians distrustworthy. Two-thirds of those individuals believed that the political system, as a whole, was dysfunctional. So I think that, you know, voters, both among the Republican voters and general election voters, are sort of looking for that anti-establishment candidate or perhaps an outsider because they believe the system is broken and it's failed them.

BANFIELD: Yes, all right. Well, listen, to the both of you, thank you. Van Jones, Lisa Booth, good to have you on. Appreciate it.

BOOTHE: Thank you.

BANFIELD: All right.

For the latest in politics and all the presidential contenders, just head over to cnnpolitics.com. Everything you need to know.

Afghanistan and Pakistan absolutely reeling after a disastrous earthquake there. More than 100 people dead, and the numbers keep going up. There are even more wounded. Aid groups are scrambling to help victims, to find victims. We've got a live report coming to you from Kabul, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[12:16:49] BANFIELD: Today, the woman who plowed into a crowd at the Oklahoma State University homecoming parade is set to appear before a judge. Here she is. Twenty-five years old. This is Adacia Chambers. She's facing four counts of second-degree murder because four people were killed on Saturday. In case you're wondering, here they are, two- year-old Nash Lucas, 23-year-old Nakita Prabhakar, and a husband and wife, Marvin and Bonnie Stone. All told, 47 people were hurt, 11 of them were under the age of 13.

Now, one would think that the person responsible for such a damaging act would be a complete wreck, but her attorney says he was shocked by her reaction when he met with her behind bars. And he spoke with our Carol Costello this morning.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TONY COLEMAN, ATTORNEY FOR ADACIA CHAMBERS: I was not satisfied with her responses to my questions. And more specifically, I grew increasingly concerned with her inappropriate comments as it relates to information that I shared with her, specific information about her having collided with a motorcycle, her having also collided with other individuals, and that there were four fatalities. When this information was shared with her, her inappropriate response to that, which could probably more correctly be categorized as a flat effect, I guess you would say, in other words, no show of emotion whatsoever, zero response. That is not something that is typical of a normal, functioning individual.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BANFIELD: Our Nick Valencia is live in Stillwater, Oklahoma, today.

Nick, the first thing everyone wondered when this happened was if the driver was absolutely drunk. And at this point, we're hearing a lot that alcohol didn't play a role. What do you know?

NICK VALENCIA, CNN CORRESPONDENT: That's still an outstanding question. We have reached out to the authorities here in Stillwater to ask them what she is suspected of being under the influence of. Of course, she is charged with DUI. They have not gotten back to us. Getting back to her attorney, her attorney telling us that Chambers is

a Christian. She's not known to drink alcohol or take drugs and that this is out of character. Her father saying that this is not the girl that he knows. So, still an outstanding question whether or not she was under the influence, but she is charged, right now, and at this 2:30 p.m. court hearing we expect to have those charges read out to her, Ashleigh.

BANFIELD: All right, Nick Valencia, thank you for that. Four counts of second-degree murder.

Our Paul Callan joins me live now to talk a little bit about this.

I listened very carefully to the words that her attorney used when he spoke with Carol Costello - inappropriate responses, a flat affect, zero response, and that sounded to me like textbook not competent to stand trial.

PAUL CALLAN, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: I think you're right on to it, because the standard for incompetence - and it's different from the standard for being found insane or, you know, legally not responsible for the crime - is that you can't communicate with your lawyer and you don't really understand what's going on in court. If those two things are present, then the judge is going to say, we're going to send you to a psychiatric institution of some kind.

[12:20:06] BANFIELD: That's a very temporary thing, though, Paul. That's not competent to be dealing with a courtroom right now. That's not, we're going to send you away until you're better.

CALLAN: Permanently.

BANFIELD: You still have to face the music at some point.

CALLAN: Yes, you do. And as a matter of fact, a lot of people who insert the insanity defense eventually are originally found to be incompetent. They go in for three or four months. They get medicated. And then they're competent to stand trial. Remember, if they can communicate with their lawyer and they understand the charges against them, they're competent. It's a very low bar, and a lot of times people go back and forth.

BANFIELD: Yes, I mean, Elizabeth Smart - you'll remember, she was abducted in Salt Lake City. Her assailants were not competent for almost a decade. I mean, they were just sitting pretty in a jail cell until a number of different court cases could be rendered about, you know, forcing competency through medication, et cetera. So she - I mean, theoretically, she could sit in a cell for as long as it takes to be competent to come in and face some kind of legal music and face these, you know, four counts of second-degree murder.

CALLAN: Absolutely. As a matter -

BANFIELD: Wow!

CALLAN: It's such a shifting tablo (ph). I've seen it happen in the middle of a trial, somebody is found incompetent and they go back -

BANFIELD: Yes, I've seen it, too.

CALLAN: And they come back again and they're found competent. So when you're dealing with mental illness, it's a tough thing for the courts to sort out.

BANFIELD: Well, stay tuned to this face, because clearly this is going to have some movement, or not, which itself is movement. Thank you very much, Paul Callan. Appreciate it.

An earthquake can bring a nation to its knees. And Afghanistan is facing the aftermath of a massive one. Crumbling buildings, dead and wounded, people missing. So many of the victims are so far from help. We're going to have the latest after this break.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[12:25:58] BANFIELD: At least 180 people are dead after a powerful earthquake in south Asia this morning. And that total is expected to undoubtedly rise. A 7.5-magnitude quake hit northern Afghanistan near its border with Pakistan, but the shock waves were felt hundreds of miles away in northern India. One Pakistani official tells CNN at least 71 people were killed in one province alone. Hundreds of others injured. Buildings turned to rubble in Afghanistan. And among the casualties, heartbreakingly, 12 schoolgirls who died in a stampede trying to get out of a building while the earth was shaking.

I want to bring in journalist Catherine James, who is live with us in Kabul.

It is nightfall now there, Catherine. Can you give me an update in terms of the rescue efforts, the search, the recovery?

CATHERINE JAMES, JOURNALIST (via telephone): As you can imagine, the rescue effort at this time of night is incredibly complicated. These areas of Afghanistan, a lot of them are quite remote. Access to these areas is very limited. Even during the day, you've got limited one road to a lot of these places. And there has been some reports of landslides and also (ph) the risk of landslides, especially with a quake of this size. So the rescue effort in many parts will only kick off again once there is - once there is daylight, which means that some people are concerned about people who are trapped under rubble and the like. And so, as you've mentioned, we expect that the casualties are likely to rise.

BANFIELD: And then what about just the area that's been so heavily damaged? Is this also an area that's war-ravaged and that is, you know, suffering terrible poverty and struggle because of the years and years of war and not just this most latest 13 or 14-year one?

JAMES: That's right. I mean the north of Afghanistan has seen a huge increase in conflict in the recent years, and you might recall just even a few weeks ago we had extensive coverage of Kunduz, which is in the north and also will have been affected by this quake. The schoolgirls who were killed and another 40 of those schoolgirls were wounded just adjacent to Kunduz. So, this is an area that has seen a lot of conflict. And just east of that area is Badakhshan, which is probably one of the most insecure districts in terms of food security. And the World Food Program had already had a lot of trouble getting food to a lot of places before winter. And this is - this is likely to further hinder those efforts.

BANFIELD: It's not something you hear often, food security. And there could be nothing more critical at this juncture, getting aid and security in such a dangerous area.

Catherine James, thank you for that. She's going to continue her work and we'll continue to update you as we get information out of that region as well.

And then there's this. Is the Ferguson effect to blame for a recent violent crime rise? The FBI director, James Comey, says maybe, but this is also a time when politicians and experts say criminal justice reform is long overdue, that we should be letting people out of overcrowded prisons. These are thorny issues, folks. Our legal panel tackles them, next.

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