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Legal View with Ashleigh Banfield

FBI Chief Speaking To Nation's Top Cops; FBI Director Addresses The "Ferguson Effect"; Chicago Teen Dies Of Head Injury In Seventh Football Death This Year; World Health Organization Says Bacon And Hot Dogs Can Cause Cancer. Aired 12:30-1p ET

Aired October 26, 2015 - 12:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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[12:33:52] ASHLEIGH BANFIELD, CNN ANCHOR: For the first time, a high- level U.S. official is giving some weight to that notion that police officers are showing restraint, holding back because of a wake of criticism that has become known as the Ferguson effect. FBI director James Comey says it is at least partly to blame for a surge in violent crime in some cities. I repeat, some, not all. This idea that some police officers are reluctant to arrest people, they are afraid of legal trouble, they're afraid of ending up on television with their careers and reputations ruined.

Comey is speaking live today at a gathering of the nation's top policing minds in Chicago. And tomorrow, they're expected to hear from an even higher voice, the President himself. Some of the topics likely to come up, not just use of force by police, but also a crisis that's happening in America, and that is the overcrowding of jails and prisons. The White House says 2.2 million people are behind bars in America today. That compares to just 500,000 30 years ago.

[12:35:04] Want to bring back Paul Callan and HLN Legal Analyst Joey Jackson. And also joining me, CNN Law Enforcement Analyst Cedric Alexander who's past president the noble, the National Organization of Black Law enforcement executives. Am I correct, Cedric, you were at the meeting. And I know that James Comey didn't say these remarks at the meeting. He said them at an address at his alma mater. It's a law school, the University of Chicago. But they must be resonating and resounding among the officials attending that meeting.

CEDRIC ALEXANDER, CNN LAW ENFORCEMENT ANALYST: Well, you have been in this profession a long time, Ashleigh, and I have a very different perspective, if you will, and that perspective is this. There is no statistical data to suggest in no kind of way that officers are not doing their job and that's adding to the increase in violent crime across America. Violent crime across this country, quite frankly, is down overall. We know that it's up in some cities, as you stated.

However, I think we also have to be mindful of the fact that there are a lot of variables that go into place when we start seeing this cyclical effect of crime. In some cities, it goes up one year, it goes down the next year, it goes up, it goes down. This is even prior to the events that began in August of last year following the death of Michael Brown. So, there is no statistical data out there to suggest that, but of course, if we look at it anecdotally, we certainly can get that perception. But the men and women across this country every day, Ashleigh, They're still out there doing this job, and they're doing it quite well. Is everyone conscious of the fact that something very different is going on and it creates little pause? Absolutely. Among the police community across this country.

However, the work that is being done in general, the work that they're doing at this very moment that we speak, the men and women are still getting it done out there for us every day.

BANFIELD: So, let me bring Paul Callan and Joey Jackson into that, especially since you just mentioned, Cedric, the anecdotal versus the empirical. It may be too early to have empirical data.

ALEXANDER: Right.

BANFIELD: I mean, we are only talking a year or so. So I'm going to open it up to the two of you if can Paul and Joey. And that is this, these are thorny issues, people don't like to talk about them. The debate is mitigated for fear some will come off sounding racist, et cetera, if they even tackle the other side of the Black Lives Matter issue. And then you have a guy like James Comey, the FBI director, coming out and saying this at a very prestigious venue. What practical effect might it have? I'll start with you, Joey.

JOEY JACKSON, HNL LEGAL ANALYST: Well, taking it from the beginning, Ashleigh, and looking at the statistics that we could evaluate, it's unbelievable, right of murder statistics. Milwaukee up 76 percent, St. Louis 60 percent from last year. Baltimore up 56 percent, Washington 44 percent. It's amazing. And you see it right there, Ashleigh. And so, you really have to ask yourself, what is this attributable to?

BANFIELD: By way, Milwaukee extraordinarily distressing. 76 percent increase from last year to this year, in murders.

JACKSON: Just incredible. Chicago up 20 percent, New York 17 percent. It goes on and on. What I think though Ashleigh, is that this discussion provides a real opportunity to address the whole issue of criminal justice reform. And I think it starts, in my view, there are three things I think that need to happen. And Cedric Alexander and I have spoken a lot about this.

The first issue is community policing, and that is partnerships with the police and the community so that people in the community can feel that the police are there to protect and to serve and to assist. There's no crime -- I don't think there's any community in the country that wants crime, and I think people would be more up to assist officers that they trust, that they respect and that work with them closely.

I think the second issue that holder began to address in 2013 when he laid out his memorandum, and that's excuse me, the issue of minimum mandatory sentencing for nonviolent people. You started this, Ashleigh, with addressing the issue of overcrowding in jails. There are people in jail, absolutely, who belong there and who are not redeemable and should stay. On the other side, though, there are people that, if we're going to address the tenants of the criminal justice system, which talk about punishment, deterrence and rehabilitation, we should take that seriously.

BANFIELD: Yeah.

JACKSON: And if they shouldn't be there, they shouldn't be there. One last point, Ashleigh and that's the issue of rehabilitation. Is it mental illness that we have to work on with people in prison? Is it the family dynamic? Is it a substance abuse issue? These are times when we can have this real discussion...

BANFIELD: Education.

JACKSON: ... maybe make real change. Absolutely.

BANFIELD: Poverty. You know, the influencing factors in these communities that are run down, real estate that is just decrepit, there so many of these possibilities.

JACKSON: So many.

BANFIELD: Let me just make mention as well, because I thing it really bears informing, and that is, while we look at murder rates rising, and those numbers are horrifying, to see 76 percent jump in Milwaukee. If you compare those numbers to the '90s, we are way down. I mean, I think it was Washington had 400 murders in a year in the 1990, one of the years in the 1990s, compared to 105, you know, this year, and I think Chicago was 900-plus compared to, you know, 294 this year.

[12:40:08] Cedric, did you want to jump in on that, just the notion that, just the notion that this is -- when you mention the cyclical issue, I mean, we are way down, even with this last year's jump.

ALEXANDER: I mean, absolutely. Joey brings up a lot of great points, and that's all the more reason why we cannot blame this on any one particular thing in any particular city across this country. There are just a number of variables, from unemployment to -- I mean, you name it. All of the social concerns that we all are very much aware of play some part in this over time.

However, in light of a lot of the feelings that people across this country have about policing today in this country, are we all very much conscious of it? Do police officers out there feel a little sense of pause? Absolutely. But at the same time, they're still doing their job every day. The rise in these homicide rates we cannot attribute to no one particular thing, but we have to look at our overall criminal justice system and we have to look overall at our whole entire social system in terms of might be influencing these numbers, such as what we see at such high rates today.

BANFIELD: And to that point, Cedric Alexander, looking at the overall criminal justice system, there has been this pendulum swing towards mitigating these statistics that make us the laughing stock of the world, Paul Callan. We represent 5 percent of the world's population. We represent 25 percent of its prisoners. I could quote stat after stat just like that. And to that end, there has been a congressional effort to try to release more nonviolent prisoners, to change the sentencing guidelines. But then you have this comment by James Comey, and you wonder if it's going to have a chilling effect on that movement, to stop the overcrowding in our prisons.

PAUL CALLAN, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: Well, what's going to have a chilling effect on letting more people out of prison is, if we see a continuing increase in the crime and murder rate, people will struggle to find solutions. And you know, the statisticians -- first of all, our statistics are not very good in the first place, so everybody can find what they want to find in statistics.

JACKSON: What part that point view.

BANFIELD: Yeah.

CALLAN: So, common sense, though, says if you say to a cop, you're going to be scrutinized if you make a judgment to be aggressive in your interaction with somebody you think to be a bad guy, and maybe you'll be brought up on charges, maybe there will be demonstrations, what's the cop going to do? Most cops in a questionable situation, they're going to back off. And the bad guy, on the other hand -- now, this has a great effect on innocent citizens who got swept up in aggressive policing, but aggressive policing also sweeps up the bad guys. And aggressive stop and frisk gets a lot of guns off the street. So, we can -- there's a price to be paid if we want the cops to behave better, and that price is going to be increased crime. And I think we're just going to have to deal with it.

JACKSON: But there's a delicate balance, Ashleigh. And that also comes to the issue of technology. We're seeing more body cams, officers equipped with that, seeing more dash cams, I think that's helpful for a number of reasons, of course for the officer's protection, and people in the community can feel, if there's a body cam on an officer, that they'll be dealt with appropriately. And I think it's a...

CALLAN: I wanted to add one other thing, because we're running out of time, but releasing nonviolent criminals from jail sounds great. What happened in New York City this weekend? A cop was shot by somebody who was released on bail because, supposedly, he was a nonviolent criminal. And he didn't have a lot of convictions in the past. Those sorts of things are going to happen, and we have to see if we're willing to live with that price.

BANFIELD: Great conversation and certainly not over. Paul Callan, Joey Jackson. Cedric Alexander as always. Thank you, appreciate it.

[12:43:45] We've heard so much about head injuries in football, and now for the seventh time this year, a high school player has died because of it. The autopsy is revealing, and we're going to talk about it right after the break.

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BANFIELD: Another high school football player has died, high school. Just after a hit on the field during a game. 17-year-old Andre Smith of Chicago died of blunt force head injuries on the last play of the game on Thursday. CNN Sports Anchor Rachel Nichols is with us live latest. I can't stand the fact that we keep reporting this, one after the other. Is seven in one year unusually high?

RACHEL NICHOLS, CNN SPORT ANCHOR: Well, look, not only are we talking about seven this year, there is another kid currently who is reportedly in critical condition in a Tennessee hospital for a football-related injury. And when you look at the previous ten years, 92 deaths related to high school football. So, you're now talking of about 100 kids altogether in the last decade. That's tough. Now, a million players play high school football. It's not like kids are falling down right and left, but if you're any of the parents, one is too many, clearly.

BANFIELD: Is it the game.

NICHOLS: And you talk about...

BANFIELD: Or is it how we're treating the game? Are we staffing it appropriately, or is it just the game, it's going to happen?

NICHOLS: Look, 37 percent of public schools have medical trainer full time. That leaves -- what about all the other kids there dealing with it, who aren't realizing that, hey, you play with a concussion, then you get hit in the first quarter, maybe you shouldn't go in for the second or third quarter. They did a survey and 70 percent of high school football players said they had gone back in and played even though that they have what they considered to be a head injury, that's not even diagnosed by medical a professional.

So you see where the chain of events are where there's a problem. But by the way, there's a lot of high schools that can barely field a football team, they're closing down arts they're closing them sports programs.

[12:50:03] They can't pay for a full-time medical professional to be on the sidelines. That is expensive. So, there has to be some decisions made about whether these sports can be played at all or should be played at all. By the way, there are some lawsuits now coming up in relation to these deaths, parents saying, hey, you didn't do the right thing by my kid on the field. You didn't have the right people, the ambulance didn't act correctly. There was a case in buffalo, the ambulance didn't want to drive on the field because they didn't want to mess up the field, so...

BANFIELD: Well, that could be debilitating. That could have a chilling effect on high school sports and funding across the country. Rachel Nichols, thank you. Appreciate that.

We're going to check some other top stories right now. Five people have died, one person is missing. Look at the picture. That was a whale watching tour boat. And before it ended up like this, it had 27 people on it. It happened off the coast of British Columbia in Canada. The boat made a mayday call yesterday afternoon, but it was clear and it was sunny, and so, the cause of this accident is not yet known. A harrowing and miraculous rescue at sea, watch these pictures as fishermen off of turkey's coast spot a toddler and several other people floating in the Aegean Sea after their boat capsized. They got the little toddler on board, got him out of his life jacket, hit him on the back, turned him over, emptying the water. Look at these images. A frantic effort to get his lungs cleared. Baby Mohammed, we are happy to say, is safe now, as is his mother. At least 680,000 migrants have arrived in Europe by sea this very way that Mohammed nearly died. And that's just this year.

Deputies in South Carolina have arrested a man for allegedly hoarding as many as 10,000 stolen guns. 10,000 Sheriff's office says Brent Nicholson also had stolen chainsaws, four-wheelers and taxidermy supplies. Yes, taxidermy supplies, when they arrested him on Friday. The deputies think that Nicholson was just keeping the stash, not selling it. They believe other people stole those things for him.

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SHERIFF JAY BROOKS, CHESTERFIELD COUNTY, S.C.: It is just going to be a long, tedious process of getting them back to their rightful owners.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I don't understand why he done the things he done, but I'm glad it's off the streets.

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BANFIELD: Well, might have some insight here, I'm not sure, but Nicholson is also facing, you guessed it, drug charges.

The University of Mississippi is removing the state flag from its campus. This follows passage of a student resolution calling for its removal. The flag incorporates the Confederate Flag into its design.

United Airlines says I'm sorry, and they're saying it to D'Arcee Neal. This is D'Arcee. He's disabled, and he had to crawl his way off of a flight to get to a bathroom after waiting almost half an hour for a wheelchair. He was traveling from San Francisco to Washington last week. An apparent mix-up meant that there was no wheelchair waiting at the gate for him to help him off the plane. The 29-year-old says instead of helping, the flight attendants just stared at him. Neal got a phone call from United, apologizing. Apparently, one of the flight attendants recorded the incident. Neal was told the on-duty manager was suspended. United also offered him $300.

For a lot of us, there are few guilty pleasures quite as delicious as this. Bacon. But there is now reason to feel a little bit more guilty next time you indulge, folks, and guilty might be the least of your worries. Some scientists are saying a health risk, a big one, is being linked to processed meats like this and your next deli sandwich. How bad? Well, how about this as a teaser? They're linking it to asbestos.

[12:48:56] We're going to give you the straight facts, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK) BANFIELD: If you love bacon at breakfast, and who doesn't? And then hot dogs for lunch, listen up, because the World Health Organization says that processed meats can cause cancer and that unprocessed, red meat probably can cause cancer. This is more strident language than they've used in the past. I want to bring in our Senior Medical Correspondent, Elizabeth Cohen, to break this down. They're not just saying bacon and hot dogs, which we've heard before. They're saying that deli meat that's processed, all those things are dangerous. So, walk me through it.

ELIZABETH COHEN, CNN SENIOR MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: Right, you're absolutely right about the language, Ashleigh. I mean, this is really quite definitive for a public health agency. They say that processed meats can cause cancer. There are carcinogens in the same category as cigarettes or asbestos. So, what they said was that one serving, so let's say one hot dog a day, can increase your risk of getting colon cancer by 18 percent. And when you look worldwide, they say that processed meats are responsible for 34,000 cancer deaths each year. Now, we reached out to the meat industry and this is what they had to say "Cancer is a complex disease. No single food has ever been proven to cause or cure cancer. The available scientific evidence simply does not support a causal relationship between red or processed meat and any type of cancer." Ashleigh?

BANFIELD: Yeah, but I mean, it still means you've got to be careful of that healthy sandwich, you know? Ten seconds. I mean, you can still have a sandwich or two a week? Just ten seconds on it, Elizabeth.

COHEN: You know, it really depends how much risk you want to take. 18 percent isn't huge, it's not like cigarettes or asbestos. So, if you want to take that risk, that's fine. Other people will say, why would I want to do it? How possibly special could bacon be?

BANFIELD" Oh, I can tell you right now, it is special. Elizabeth Cohen, live for us, thank you for that. Appreciate it, I guess. Thank you for that.

[13:00:06] And thank you, everyone, for being with us. Wolf's start right now.