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Legal View with Ashleigh Banfield

Student Takedown; ; Averting Government Shutdown; Carson Leads GOP Field in New National Poll. Aired 12-12:30p ET

Aired October 27, 2015 - 12:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[12:00:00] JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: LEGAL VIEW with Ashleigh Banfield starts right now.

ASHLEIGH BANFIELD, CNN ANCHOR: Hello, everyone. I'm Ashleigh Banfield. Welcome to LEGAL VIEW.

We're going to begin in Columbia, South Carolina, with the high school classroom video that's creating a firestorm on social media and well beyond. And this just in, we have now learned that the FBI may investigate this incident. What you're about to see in the course of nine seconds has generated so much national attention and outrage, in newspaper headline, TV news and all over Twitter with the #assaultatspringvalleyhigh.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

FIELDS: Put your hands behind your back. Give me your hands. Give me your hands.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BANFIELD: As you watch this again, what you're seeing is a high school resource officer, employed by the Richland County Sheriff's Department, yanking a student from her desk at Spring Valley High School. We should point out, as rough as it looks, no one was injured. There is a second, longer video that was taken from farther away and this time make sure you take a look at how the other students are reacting to what they're seeing.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

(INAUDIBLE)

FIELDS: Are you gonna come with me?

(INAUDIBLE)

FIELDS: Are you gonna come with me or am I gonna take you?

(INAUDIBLE)

FIELDS: Put your hands behind your back. Give me your hands. Give me your hands. Give me your hands. Let me see your hands. Give me your hands.

(INAUDIBLE)

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BANFIELD: The school resource officer in that video is Deputy Ben Fields. He's been put on administrative leave and so far he has not responded to our requests for a comment in this matter.

As we just mentioned, the Richland County Sheriff has asked the United States Justice Department for an FBI investigation. A federal law enforcement official tells CNN that the Justice Department has not yet decided whether to take this case.

The school district released a statement that reads in part, "our district is deeply concerned about an incident that occurred at Spring Valley High School today. Pending the outcome of the investigation, the district has directed that the school resource officer not return to any school in the district."

I want to bring in Mo Canady, an executive director for the National Association of School Resource Officers, along with CNN and -- contributor and attorney Bakari Sellers, Glenn Jones, who's a former principal and a member of the Richard Two Black Parents Association, and CNN legal analyst and defense attorney Danny Cevallos.

Mo, if I could begin with you, as the expert in school resource officers, give me your take on the limited amount of information we have so far.

MO CANADY, EXEC. DIR., NATL. ASSN. OF SCHOOL RESOURCE OFFICERS: Well, good afternoon, Ashleigh.

And the first thing that I want to comment on is that the state of South Carolina is somewhat unique in that the National Association is not allowed to train school resource officers in that state. The state has chosen to do it themselves, so I don't know how the officers there are trained.

What I will say about the video is there are a couple of thing. First of all, we don't get to see what happens prior to the incident. And, of course, that's probably going to be important information to the investigation. But the big question that I would have is, whether or not this was a situation where it's a school discipline incident that should be handled by the school administration, or if there was a criminal incident that occurred that would prompt law enforcement involvement. And that's a very important, dividing line when we're talking about this.

BANFIELD: And what would you constitute as criminal incident? It all seemed very calm, actually, even before the - what looks like a violent takedown. Everything seemed calm. Even the words of the officer were, come on now, come on now.

CANADY: Right, Ashleigh, and I'm not suggesting it was a criminal incident or not. What I'm saying is, if it were - if there were an assault involved or a weapon involved or the student were threatening the teacher, that would prompt law enforcement involvement or should. If it was an incident where the student is just refusing to comply with the teacher or not wanting to participate, that's a school discipline incident and not necessarily a place for law enforcement.

[12:05:00] BANFIELD: And, Bakari Sellers, I know that you're disturbed by this video. I've heard some of the comments that you've made earlier on CNN, that there's just no defense at all for what we see on that. And as a lawyer yourself, do you see the potential that there could have been some aspect of criminality that this officer at least was perceiving or is that just out of the question?

BAKARI SELLERS, CNN CONTRIBUTOR: Well, I'm not certain about criminality. I do believe that an assault took place. But what we do know, first and foremost, is that the young lady was actually arrested and charged. She was charged with resisting arrest. And the underlying offense, one would believe, is either disorderly conduct or disturbing schools. You take that into account and you take into account that the setting, you know she wasn't about to harm herself and she wasn't about to harm anyone else.

And so the officer didn't show any method or mechanism where he attempted to de-escalate the situation. In fact, he escalated the situation. The officer could have come in the classroom. If the student said that she wasn't going to leave, he could have removed the audience that she had and take everyone else out of the classroom and talk to the student. But he didn't have to treat her like a rag doll. He did not have to treat that young lady like some ordinary perp that is out in front of the corner liquor store. And that's the way he treated her.

BANFIELD: So that's one lawyer's opinion. And there's always, here in America, what we pride ourselves on is the benefit of the doubt. And, Danny Cevallos, as another attorney, is there something that we're not seeing perhaps in a split second of the video that may have transpired, that may have changed the dynamic for that officer?

DANNY CEVALLOS, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: Well, go back to Bakari's own words, that this may have been a disturbing schools, which is a misdemeanor charge in South Carolina. So if there was a misdemeanor alleged, we know that police can arrest for misdemeanors. So don't be fooled by the setting. Whether it's a school, a street, an adult or a juvenile -

SELLERS: Well, that - that's -

CEVALLOS: Juveniles get arrested - hold on - juveniles get arrested all the time. I know, I've defended maybe 100 of them. And they get arrested in schools for misdemeanors and even lesser type charges. So the fact that we're wringing our hands at the mere fact that this juvenile could be arrested for a misdemeanor, well where have we - where have we been? This has been going on for centuries. So I don't know why we're acting so surprised.

Understand that once the decision is made to arrest - Bakari, you said it was a misdemeanor yourself - once the decision is made to arrest -

SELLERS: That's not the point, though. CEVALLOS: Then the - then the encounter ends with an arrest. If we don't like that, then maybe we need to reevaluate our criminal justice system. And I'd be for that. But as it stands, your - you acknowledge it was a misdemeanor and, if he believes there was a misdemeanor, he is going to arrest. The real question is, and this - you may not - we may not know, Bakari, did he go in there with the intent to arrest at that moment or just to remove her from the classroom. That will be a relevant inquiry.

SELLERS: If I may -

CEVALLOS: No? It's no?

SELLERS: If I may just - just briefly, that my - my biggest issue is if he - and the settings do matter. The settings do matter. This was not a street. This is a classroom. He's a school resource officer. And his mission is to protect those students.

And my only point to this is that the force, the force used in this incident, the force used in this arrest, even if he wanted to deem an arrest, a lawful arrest, the force used in this was excessive. And that's the problem. And you know as an attorney -

CEVALLOS: Based on what? What specifically was excessive, Bakari? Tell me - if you identify what was excessive, I'm listening.

SELLERS: Oh, all we have to do is look at the video. I mean the force was -

CEVALLOS: OK.

SELLERS: He picked her up. He - first of all, he tried to put her in a chokehold. After he was not able to get her in a chokehold, he flipped her desk and then flung her across the classroom. That is excessive. And the way you know it's excessive is because there are other mechanisms he could have used to render that arrest, and he did not. He chose to escalate the situation.

BANFIELD: Well, I want to make sure that we point out that -

CEVALLOS: You do, Bakari - yes.

BANFIELD: That the desk flipped over as well because the student's foot was tangled around it. I'm not - I don't know whether the officer intended for the desk to flip or whether he intended to get the student out, and she was tangled in the desk.

CEVALLOS: Bakari -- Bakari, yes or no - yes or no, Bakari, an arrest - a decision to arrest ends with a person in handcuffs. If you say, yes, then that means then they - that police officers can use reasonable force necessary to effect that arrest. And if she's not moving -

SELLERS: And that's what we - and that's my point. My point is that the force was not reasonable.

BANFIELD: So I want to bring in Glenn - I want to bring in Glenn Jones.

GLENN JONES, MEMBER, RICHLAND TWO BLACK PARENTS ASSN.: Yes.

BANFIELD: Mr. Jones, I want to read for our audience, as we invite you into this conversation, a comment from your association and the association again is called the Two Black Parents Association that works to connect this school with the parents and the administration, et cetera. And you have said the - your organization has said, "the unfortunate actions of this police officer has revealed that what many African-Americans parents have experienced in this district for a very long time. This is just another example of why we must have an independent assessment from various parties, including the Department of Justice, to exam policies and practices in the district."

Mr. Jones, are you suggesting that this is a race-based incident?

[12:09:57] JONES: Not necessarily. Well, you know, it's happened, as we were, you know, brought into this by parents, they've been complaining about it for year. And we've been - we took up the point as to where we would be concerned. They had no voice about what was going on in the school systems. And so they needed to be able to have a voice somewhere to be able to address this.

BANFIELD: So, I guess my issue would be that there are a lot of parents who have seen this - this video and have been very frustrated with the notion that a teenager, in a classroom, would not listen to authority number one who told her to stop talking on her cell phone, that was the teacher, would not listen to authority number two when authority number two was called in, that was the principal, and continued this bad behavior, then would not listen to authority number three, an actual officer, a resource officer, a police officer, who had to be brought into this classroom. And I think there's a lot of us in the older generation who remember well, we got smacked around. I mean we - there was no way we would have questioned this kind of authority. But that it has nothing to do with color. It has to do with a bad teenager.

JONES: I may have to - I'll disagree with that on the note that I don't think that the same behavior would have warranted - that would not have warranted that type of behavior by the school resource officer. I think that we have to be able to take a look at another intervention as being a leader of a school, an alternative school before myself and having ten years' experience in it, we wanted to be able to - we met those types of situation and issue. And even if we had to call in a counselor, some - some other stop-gap measure to be able to not - not allow an officer to take advantage of a child like that, we didn't want to traumatize the environment.

Students yesterday were traumatized by that environment to the fact that they didn't even move. It's like they were numb to what was going on. And so I - we have to - the environment has to be protected and maybe it's that the district may need to reevaluates their processes before they bring in an officer and maybe give him some assistance and maybe give the officers some assistance in it -

BANFIELD: Well I think you make a great point. You make a great point, especially since you're a former principal of a school. You certainly know what you're talking about.

Let me ask - just ask Mo Canady, again, with your background, you know, what else was anyone in authority to do as this young intransigent teenaged girl refused every level of authority?

CANADY: All right. Sure.

BANFIELD: What else could they have done?

CANADY: Well, Ashleigh, it's important to understand, first of all, what a school resource officer is. And there's a lot of confusion on that. And a school resource officer is a sworn certified law enforcement officer deployed in a community-based policing strategy. And there's three things that have to happen. There has to be collaboration between the law enforcement agency and the school district. The officer has to be properly selected and they must be properly trained. So it goes back to that collaboration and having a proper memorandum of understanding between the law enforcement agency and the school district as to what the role of the S.R.O. is, what they're supposed to be engaged in, and what they're not supposed to be engaged in. Again, the big missing component is, what all happened before that actual video began that we saw? And that's going to be the key as to whether law enforcement engages or not.

BANFIELD: And I dare say that with the media everywhere looking for details, this information will come out in the, you know, ensuing hours and minutes.

CANADY: Sure.

BANFIELD: I want to thank all of you for this conversation. I think it's an important conversation for all of us to have. Glenn Jones, Danny Cevallos, Bakari Sellers and Mo Canady, thank you. Thank you to all of you. Appreciate it.

SELLERS: Thank you.

JONES: Thank you.

BANFIELD: Coming up next, a deal to avoid a government shutdown. You'd think everyone would be happy about that. Hold your horses and buckle up. That story's next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[12:18:38] (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. JOHN BOEHNER (R), HOUSE SPEAKER: Somebody (ph) got a bipartisan agreement in a town that isn't known for a lot of bipartisanship, you're going to see bricks flying from those that don't like the fact that there's a bipartisan agreement. But there is. It's a solid agreement and I told my colleagues, there isn't any reason why any member should vote against this.

(END VIDEO CLIP) BANFIELD: To avoid a government shutdown, House Speaker John Boehner is rallying the troops best he can to back a budget deal that was brokered by congressional leaders and the White House. CNN's Manu Raju is live on Capitol Hill.

And, surprise, surprise, not everybody's happy. Some of the conservatives think that - yes, and we giggle about it but it's really annoying. It's very frustrating. And we have another guy who's waiting in the wings, Paul Ryan, who doesn't seem to love it either. How are they assuaging this so it can actually move forward, Manu?

MANU RAJU, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, the real concern that we're hearing from Republicans is, they have not really had a chance to review this pretty significant deal. I mean this deal would raise the national debt limit until March of 2017. It would also increase defense and domestic spending by roughly $80 billion. In addition to tens of billions of dollars more for overseas war money. This plan was dropped in folks' laps right before midnight last night. And we're looking at a key vote on Wednesday here in the House. Republicans are not certain if they're going to vote for this yet. They're divided over this. We think that there probably will be the votes ultimately to pass it. But when I had a chance to talk to Paul Ryan about this, right before a key meeting early this morning, he was not too thrilled about the process, aligning himself with a lot of those conservatives. Here's what he had to say.

[12:20:21] (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. PAUL RYAN (R), WISCONSIN: Let me say this. I'm reserving judgment on this agreement because I, quite frankly, haven't seen it yet. I want to see what it looks like on paper. But about the process, I can say this. I think this process stinks. This is not the way to do the people's business. And under new management, we are not going to do the people's business this way. We are up against a deadline. That's unfortunate. But going forward, we can't do the people's business. As a conference, we should have been meeting months ago to discuss these things to have a unified strategy going forward.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

RAJU: It's pretty remarkable development because even if Paul Ryan is criticizing this deal, this deal will help him out tremendously if it does get enacted, because it will take those fiscal fights that have really defined John Boehner's speakership off the table right away as soon as Paul Ryan becomes speaker. He could focus on other battles, including highway funding, which is a major issue here on Capitol Hill, things to that nature, tax reform as well. So the question now is, will those votes be there this week to pass it out of the House and the Senate. We'll just have to see, Ashleigh.

BANFIELD: And then there's, of course, those votes for whoever's going to be new management. You know that critical, critical issue under new management.

RAJU: Yes.

BANFIELD: Things will be different. Oh, if I had a dime. Manu Raju, thank you so much. Nice to have you. Appreciate it.

RAJU: thank you.

BANFIELD: Coming up next, should Donald Trump be worried? There's a whole other poll out there, has him in second place. And guess what, folks, this time he can't just say, oh, it's just that one state, Iowa. Nope, this would be all of them.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[12:26:14] BANFIELD: Turning to the race for the White House. Another shift in momentum for the GOP nomination. Good news for Ben Carson, not so good news for Donald Trump. We got a brand new poll from CBS News and "The New York Times" and it's nationwide, folks. It shows Carson at number one, riding a surge and pushing the perennial frontrunner, Trump, to number two in a national poll. That news coming on the heels of several polls showing Trump running second to Carson in Iowa. And Trump, this morning, was mystified.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: We seem to have hit a chord, but some of these polls coming out, I don't quite get it. I was at - I was number one pretty much in Iowa for - from the beginning. And I would say we're doing very well there. So I'm a little bit surprised. The other polls, as you know, in other states are extraordinary, actually. But this one I don't quite get.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BANFIELD: This one he doesn't quite get. So with me now, Republican strategist Cheri Jacobus, and Democratic strategist Robert Zimmerman.

I think a lot of people, like you folks included, have been saying for three months, I don't get it. I don't get it. And now Donald Trump is saying, I don't get it. Is this going to be short lived? IS this something he's going to have to get? Do we think it's going to have an effect on how he talks about other states that weigh in with their polls? Weigh in.

CHERI JACOBUS, REPUBLICAN STRATEGIST: Look, this was bound to happen. We all knew it. He hung in there for a long time. He got the bulk of the media coverage. There was a - he benefitted from a huge Republican field. But he has said and done some things that have given Republican voters pause. I also think that the lead for Carson -

BANFIELD: Wait, like what, though, because he has said and done things -

JACOBUS: Like what.

ROBERT ZIMMERMAN, DEMOCRATIC STRATEGIST: Exactly.

BANFIELD: All the way along that would have normally given Republican voters' pause. But they didn't. JACOBUS: You know, I think - I think the most - I think the most

recent dynamic is, we are now on the heels of his 9/11 comments, and I don't think that Republican voters, or most voters, took kindly to that, to him coming at it -

BANFIELD: But it was OK to say that John McCain wasn't as admirable because he got captured?

ZIMMERMAN: But, see - of course. You see - you see -

JACOBUS: That - and, yes, and then - and this his comment about POWs and then I think too you've got voters, Republican voters in particular now, they also saw Hillary Clinton last week at the Benghazi hearings where we now know that Ambassador Stevens -

ZIMMERMAN: Here we go.

JACOBUS: Made multiple requests for - for help and he didn't get it.

ZIMMERMAN: Let's - let's - you know something, Cheri, I give you credit for trying to spin out of this one, but -

JACOBUS: And let me finish. And so I think what voters - I think what voters are looking for now is a true commander in chief and character and temperament matter.

BANFIELD: Or is it that they're paying closer attention as the days wain -

ZIMMERMAN: Of course.

BANFIELD: Towards the actual vote and starting to say, you know what, details matter.

ZIMMERMAN: Well, you know something, the good news for the Republican establishment is, Donald Trump's not the frontrunner today. The bad news is, Ben Carson's the frontrunner. No matter how you slice it, both represent such extreme rhetoric and behavior that they're really out of touch with the mainstream of the country. What's most interesting to watch as this - unfolds, is that now that we're moving into the serious season where people start looking at issue, is Donald Trump really going to spend his own money? Those of us from New York don't have any great expectation that he will step up and spend it. Well, he's only spent $2 million so far.

BANFIELD: Yes. Yes.

ZIMMERMAN: I was -- New Hampshire, about serious investment and organizing and bring in the vote. The other thing to look at that people have to focus on is the emergence of Trump - the emergence, rather, of Marco Rubio, and also the emergence of Ted Cruz. They're gaining strength in that poll, which is, they're positioned to -

BANFIELD: I want to ask you about that. I want to ask you about that in a minute. Just before I let Trump go -

ZIMMERMAN: Yes.

BANFIELD: You said something yesterday which really resonated with me, because I spent a lot of time in Afghanistan.

ZIMMERMAN: Of course.

BANFIELD: I got to know the issue of the burqa very well. I have one actually. And he said something like, well, you know, for crying out loud, the burqa, they - they like wearing the burqa for crying out - they don't have to put on the makeup and they can say, honey, I'm ready to go.

ZIMMERMAN: And he got a great applause and great laughter from the audience.

BANFIELD: My question is -

JACOBUS: Yes, but you know what -

BANFIELD: Just for starters, let's be really clear about the facts, "honey, I'm ready to go" would never come out of their mouths because they're not allowed out of the house.

ZIMMERMAN: Right.

BANFIELD: So let's be clear about the facts. But, number two, does that kind of thing matter or is it more the comment about genetically modified corn that makes Iowans crazy and makes them vote for other people, other than Trump.

[12:29:59] JACOBUS: It is - it is the - it is the constant, flippant comments that he makes about serious issues that start - people are starting to pay attention to. Look, we're looking for somebody to run against Hillary Clinton. A lot of the people in the right wing media are supporting Trump because, let's face it, they made their names and their fortunes off when the