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Legal View with Ashleigh Banfield
Sticking Points With GOP Candidates; How Recent Police Brutality Stories Are Bad Might Be Holding Back Potential Police School Reports. Aired 12:30-1pm
Aired October 27, 2015 - 12:30 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
CHERI JACOBUS, FORMER SPOKESWOMAN REPUBLICAN NATL. CMTE.: People are starting to pay attention too. What is -- latent comments that he makes about serious issues that start -- people are starting to pay attention too.
[12:30:07] Look, we're looking for somebody to run against Hillary Clinton, a lot of the people in the right wing, media supporting Trump because let's face it they made their names and their fortunes of when there was a Clinton in the White House. And I think that that's what this is.
Trump as a nominee means Hillary in the White House. Republican voters are starting to see that they're taking this seriously. And I do think that Hillary's Benghazi testimony, was -- people took it seriously. We are looking for a command we're looking --
ROBERT ZIMMERMAN, HILLARY CLINTON SUPPORTER: -- is down from the national polls.
JACOBUS: We are looking at -- for a commander-in-chief and character and temperament matter.
ZIMMERMAN: Yes, of course they do.
ASHLEIGH BANFIELD, CNN ANCHOR: So now, we have Jeb Bush and his campaign saying, he's going to be coming out to be a little tougher. I think they're calling it "Jeb Raw."
ZIMMERMAN: Jeb was quite the contrary, he's campaigning like he's applying for a country club membership. You saw him lining the other day at his forum about the fact that he has better things to do with his time. You don't say that if you're real leader. Here's the point that's important to note though. The more outrageous
vial, Donald Trump's comments are about for the Mexican-Americans, the comment about burqas or genetically modified corn.
BANFIELD: They're not being pretty enough to being said this, right.
ZIMMERMAN: Or not being pretty or Ben Carson demonizing the gay and lesbian community or talking about a religious test for in the constitution whether you should be a president if you're a Muslim, the more outrageous, their comments are the better they do with the republican electorate, that's their problem. BANFIELD: But Robert, the polls are starting to shift away from that, I just suggest that maybe now the people are paying more attention --
ZIMMERMAN: You know what, I just see you watching more Republican candidates parrot that, and look at what Ted Cruz is saying about overturning the constitution about deporting Americans citizens. Or Mike Huckabee comments. You're seeing an extremist mentality take hold because that's what playing with the Republican electorate.
JACOBUS: You know, that what the Democrats love about the GOP primary, because they can take this candidates that are low in the polls and extrapolate these comments. But the problem is we do have Donald Trump saying them, and that's why he's falling -- going by -- falling by the wayside.
What's important is to look at it, it's the second-choice candidates. And Donald trump is nobody's second-choice, it's Marco Rubio, when you look at all of the different candidate supporters who their second- choice is that's where you see the rise of Rubio.
And if you look at who their frontrunners over four years ago or eight years ago on both sides, it's, you know, it tells kind of interesting story, so I do think that the Trump bubble is starting to go away. I wouldn't say it is gone yet.
ZIMMERMAN: You know, Ashleigh my party at the end of this process may need some group therapy. The Republican Party is going to need anger management therapy because of it was kind of rhetoric.
BANFIELD: Hey can I show up this -- I want to pop up this poll on the Democratic side --
ZIMMERMAN: Sure.
BANFIELD: This is your party and whether that you therapy or not, you've got your most recent Monmouth University poll has Hillary Clinton steamrolling, just absolutely steamrolling.
Look at, this 65 percent to Bernie Sanders, 24 percent. And who's that guy on the right, oh, yeah, Martin O'Malley.
Is -- I mean is he going to be stick around, Martin O'Malley, is there a point?
ZIMMERMAN: I'm a Hillary Clinton supporter. So I'm excited by this. But have no illusion about these polls either, they're going to continue to fluctuate during the course of this process.
Martin O'Malley has got because he was trying to emerge as the left wing candidate, he's got a message, he's going to have to see whether he can carry on in this process.
BANFIELD: 5 percent with the others.
ZIMMERMAN: I agree with you. Look that his decision to make.
JACOBUS: Hillary is the Democratic nominee, it's her turn, you know, and you guys, she --
BANFIELD: Cheri, she lost, she didn't worry about that much focus and concentration and cohesion among the Democrats as compare to the Republicans?
JACOBUS: You know, no, what this does is, you know, everybody can now focus on Hillary, and her Benghazi testimony last week showed the country without the filters.
ZIMMERMAN: And her numbers only went up in the polls because the way she stood up at that panel about and spoke to the truth of what kind of bipartisan harassment she face.
JACOBUS: No, what the American people thought was that we had an ambassador asking for help, and she didn't get it. And that's going to stick.
BANFIELD: I'm going to have to leave that at the last word. But think you'll be back both of you.
ZIMMERMAN: Thank you.
BANFIELD: -- Cheri, good to have to you. Robert as always.
Coming up next to protect and to serve may not be as appealing as it used to be, the reasons behind police recruiting problems coming up, next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[12:38:16] BANFIELD: And breaking news on that story we brought you at the top of the hour as the police officer in South Carolina who yanked a student from her desk and threw her across the floor.
We have just learned that the FBI has now opened a civil rights investigation. The FBI says that it will collect all of the available facts and evidence to determine whether the officer named Ben Fields broke any federal laws in making that arrest.
And in the age of cellphone cameras, and the images spreading across social media like wildfire, police departments across the country seem to be struggling now to find new recruits.
Many law enforcement leaders believe that high profile cases like Michael Brown in Ferguson and Freddie Gray in Baltimore are having a negative impact on recruiting across the country.
CNN's Kyung Lah reports.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
KYUNG LAH, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: The Los Angeles Police Academy where the next generation of cops learn how and when to fire, high- speed pursuit tactics.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Go ahead and cuff him up. LAH: And takedown moves on armed suspects.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Suspect, put your hands up.
LAH: A tough job, yet recruit officer Asia Hardy longs to wear the badge, even if others around her don't support her career choice.
ASIA HARDY, LAPD RECRUIT OFFICER: I think that is not as easy for the -- you know, for our family members or our friends to actually accept the profession that we're going into just because of the perception that African-Americans have towards law enforcement.
LAH: A perception affected by high-profile officer-involved shootings from Ferguson, Missouri to North Charleston, South Carolina to Cincinnati, Ohio.
[12:40:05] Outrage, leading to high-profile targeted killings of police officers. The fallout seen across the country as police departments struggle to attract new officers.
In Philadelphia, the number of police recruits has dropped 47 percent in 2014 compared to 2008. Since 2013, New York, the country's biggest police force, applications are down 18 percent, in Los Angeles, 16 percent.
Lieutenant Aaron McCraney joined the LAPD at another tough time for cops, the Rodney King era. He's now in charge of trying to convince future cops to join.
When you go out and talk to recruits, potential recruits, are you hearing them mention news events?
LT. AARON MCCRANEY, LAPD RECRUITMENT SECTION: Sure. It's one of the first questions. They want to know, OK, why should I be a police officer when all of these bad things are going on? Why should I put myself at risk?
LAH: Coupled with relatively low pay and tough entrance standards and that chance that they could be hurt or killed. This is a hard sell, especially for women and minorities but not for Asia Hardy. She wants to improve not just her community, but how others view her and her brothers in blue.
HARDY: Despite all of the backlash that law enforcement is getting this is a personal choice of mine. This is my passion. So I'm still moving forward with it despite everything that's happening right now.
LAH: A number of the police departments we spoke will say it's not just public perception affecting the applications it's also the job market as well as the economy. They say these things are cyclical and they hope this is the bottom.
Kyung Lah, CNN, Los Angeles.
(END VIDEOTAPE) BANFIELD: And coming up next, a candid conversation about rising crime, guns and that the so-called Ferguson effect with Philadelphia Police Commissioner Charles Ramsey. He's in Chicago where President Obama will address the nation's police chief just a little later today.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[12:46:28] BANFIELD: President Obama is expected to call for stricter national gun laws this afternoon, during a speech to the gathering of police chiefs from around the world. All of this after the FBI Director James Comey suggested that the recent spike in violent crime in many cities may be because of the so-called Ferguson Effect making police reluctant to take action, fearful of being caught on the next viral video alleging police brutality.
And joining me to discuss this is Philadelphia Police Commissioner Charles Ramsey, he's the former Washington D.C. police chief, he was on the President's task force for policing, and also a former school resource officer.
So Commissioner, you know, a thing or two about what is making headlines right now, I want to get your take on this, are the chiefs at odds with the FBI Director, and does that also suggest that the chiefs' members are also at odds?
CHARLES RAMSEY, PHILADELPHIA POLICE COMMISSIONER: I don't think that we are at odds with the Director's comments. We just don't know what's taking place right now, certainly there could be some officers that have been impacted that way, and a little reluctant to be proactive out there on streets. But a majority of our officers I think are responding in a positive way, and continuing to do the excellent job out there.
BANFIELD: I want to play for you, an interview that my colleague Brooke Baldwin did a couple of months ago with some officers right after the Freddie Gray incident in Baltimore, and the question was simply about this, are you pulling back fearful that you will end up on YouTube, have a listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Pretty much the whole police department has shifted all toward the reactive side. You know, you have no more initiated stops per se. You know, an officer is worried.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BANFIELD: The police chiefs it would seem are in catch 22. If they agree with what that man was saying, and granted, we don't have a lot of empirical evidence that he is the norm or the position is the norm, but if the chief e agree with him, they ultimately have to admit that their members aren't doing their jobs, even if they believe what he is saying. RAMSEY: Well, it is not that easy. I mean, we have almost 800,000 police officers in the United States, and we are all individuals, so there's no question or maybe some officers have pulled back, but I also could point to cases where officers are not pulling back at all. I mean, a New York City officer just lost his life recently chasing a suspect wanted for a bike theft and other charge, he certainly not pulling back at all. So I don't think it's something that easy to really define. Something is going on, we just don't know exactly what that is.
BANFIELD: And one of the effects of that something whatever it is that recruitment as our Kyung Lah has been reporting today, recruitment is down. I mean, struggling with the number, and I wonder if you think that recruitment may be down because of the way that people view the police, maybe they have less respect for the professor or if it's because they don't want to end up on YouTube either.
RAMSEY: Well, I mean, I don't know exactly what's causing it. We are struggling a little bit also in Philadelphia. I began my police career in 1968. It wasn't the most popular profession and either with the Civil Right movement, the Vietnam War protests and all that sort of things. So we do go through these periods. But we have to be able smarter about recruiting, we have to really sell the opportunities in law enforcement as a career. And keep at it.
BANFIELD: With period.
RAMSEY: I think a lot of people would take advantage of law enforcement.
[12:50:03] BANFIELD: Well, let's talk about specifically the South Carolina school incident where the school resource officer was the third I think in the chain of authority trying to get the girl to stop talking on the cell phone. Cell phone, my lord, in class, and ultimately, it turned violent, I want your genuine reaction to what you saw on that tape?
RAMSEY: Well, I saw this morning on CNN. My wife and I both saw it. It certainly is disturbing, but my wife is a clinical psychologist, and she took a totally different look at it, and that is that perhaps they should have removed the children from the classroom. And just the teacher and the officer were there. The reason being, that the child is playing to an audience. The officer is also playing to an audience, the child doesn't want to look bad in front of her peers, the officer is concerned if he shows up to look weak in front of the same group, could it be a problem later on. So, if that is removed, then maybe it could have been resolved in a different way.
BANFIELD: Well, it just distressful any way you slice it, but I know there are a lot of more facts that we need to get on, that and I think we're going to get you a glass of water, and still appreciate managing through this whole interview.
RAMSEY: Yes, thank you.
BANFIELD: Thank you Commissioner Ramsey. Thank you so much, I invite you back any time. Appreciate your time.
RAMSEY: OK. Thank you.
BANFIELD: And stay with CNN as President Obama is expected to speak about policing in America at 3:00 p.m. this afternoon. We'll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[12:55:40] BANFIELD: Have you seen that the viral video of the soldier who saves people from the exploding car who happens to be wearing a captain America t-shirt? Or have you seen a hilarious reaction of the kid in the car seat who finds out that his mom is pregnant again? Videos like this go viral for a reason, whether we laugh or whether we cry, we don't seem to be able to turn away, but we never get to see and hear the stories behind the videos, that is unless, we commission Kyra Phillips to do this the special CNN Report. Take a look.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
KYRA PHILLIPS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: You take all of the girlfriends out in this car?
TRE HART, VIRAL BOY: Yes.
PHILLIPS: Yes.
Tre Hart defines cool. So what do you talk to your girlfriends about when you take them the out on the date?
HART: I just tell him what I want to tell him.
PHILLIPS: like what?
HART: I'd love him (inaudible).
I'm not bragging, it is just that girls like me so much.
PHILLIPS: He's a first grader turned chick magnet, but it is not Tre's car that makes him so popular.
SHANEE HART, MOTHER OF TRE: I'm pregnant.
T. HART: What? What were you thinking?
PHILLIPS: It's what he does in his mom's car that the drives him to video fame.
T. HART: Why do you have to get another baby, you just have two. This is exasperating.
PHILLIPS: Exasperating. Do you have any idea where he got that word?
S. HART: He could have gotten it from his uncles, his grandpa. He is like a sponge.
PHILLIPS: OK, but can he even spell it?
T. HART: Oh, that is so easy. E -- wait, exasperating. Hold on you guys E-I-Z-P-R-D. I don't know how to spell (inaudible).
PHILLIPS: So why do all of the girls like you now?
T. HART: Because I'm famous.
PHILLIPS: Oh, you are famous.
T. HART: And they heard they I'm a superstar and they saw the video.
PHILLIPS: This is exasperating.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BANFIELD: Super star is right, as Kyra Philips who joining me live now, he is just adorbs and I love that we're getting the story behind it, because sometime is that snippet where they are adorable, but he is just adorable right through and through.
PHILLIPS: He is adorable. Can I just say how much I love my job, Ashleigh. I mean, this is so much fun to meet --
BANFIELD: Riding around in the teeny tiny car.
PHILLIPS: Yes, exactly. Let me tell you I had to squeeze into that seat, that's no lie. Here's one of the best parts of that video, it went all of the way overseas where his dad, Tre's dad is serving in the army, and apparently the whole base in Kuwait just lit up, and said "Hey, sir, did you see that your son went viral, have you seen this video? So we Skyped with his dad, and while we were on Skype, Tre look at his dad and said, "I want to make one thing clear, sir, you are not to have any more babies, Do you understand?"
BANFIELD: Because what were you thinking.
PHILLIPS: Exactly. Come on, it's exasperating.
BANFIELD: Oh, he's precious. There are couple of other people that had a really big impact on you too.
PHILLIPS: Oh, Ashleigh you're going to laughing, you're going to crying, you're going to be on the edge of your seat, you're going to be inspired. I mean, we went spent time with Pete Frates who, you know, tool the ice bucket challenge. And so, you know, the viral phenomenon, he's got a brand new baby that we got to spend time with and see how he's doing. Lacey Parker, our little cheerleader with down syndrome, her video went viral, we actually surprised her too Ashleigh, and we arranged a try out with the Atlanta hawk cheerleaders, so you're going to see what happens during that as well. I hope it's the next thing the go viral. She is one special little girl.
BANFIELD: Fabulous, how fabulous. Oh Kyra, that's great. I can't wait for it. Thank you for doing. Thanks for digging in behind that little snippet and telling us these people are really known.
PHILLIPS: We all need a little inspiration.
BANFIELD: Appreciate that. Heck yeah, and I love it we give that us. Thank you. Kyra Phillips.
PHILLIPS: You bet.
BANFIELD: Be sure to watch Kyra's special CNN report "Videos Gone Viral 2" It's tonight right at 9:00 eastern, right here on CNN.
Thank you for watching, everyone. It has been nice to have with us this noon hour. I'm going to pass the baton over to my colleague Wolf Blitzer who get started right now.
[13:00:06] WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: Hello, I'm Wolf Blitzer. It is 1:00 p.m. here in Washington. Its 8:00 p.m. in Damascus. 1:00 a.m. Wednesday in Beijing. Wherever you are watching from around the world, thanks very much for joining us.
