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.S. Considering Front Line Troops Against ISIS; Interview with Sen. Angus King; Trump Knocked Off Top Spot; Stakes At Tomorrow Night's GOP Debate; Race for the White House; Jeb Bush Campaign; FBI Investigating School Arrest. Aired 1-1:30p ET

Aired October 27, 2015 - 13:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


[13:00:00] WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: Hello, I'm Wolf Blitzer. It's 1:00 p.m. here in Washington. It's 8:00 p.m. in Damascus, 1:00 a.m. Wednesday in Beijing. Wherever you're watching from around the world, thanks very much for joining us.

We begin with the breaking news. U.S. troops could soon be closer to the front lines in Iraq and Syria. "The Washington Post" reports that President Obama's most senior advisors are now expanding U.S. military involvement in the fight against ISIS and in other overseas' conflicts.

At a Senate Armed Services Committee hearing this morning, the U.S. Defense secretary, Ash Carter, didn't specifically address troop changes, but he did say the U.S. would move to strengthen its ally, Jordan, and also focus on fighting ISIS in the Syrian city of Raqqa where ISIS is headquartered and in the Iraqi city of Ramadi which held by ISIS on top of a bigger show of force from the air.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ASHTON CARTER, U.S. SECRETARY OF DEFENSE: And from the skies above, we expect to intensify our air campaign including with additional U.S. and coalition aircraft to target ISIL over the higher and heavy raid of strikes. This will include more strikes against ISIL high-value targets as our intelligence improves. Also, its oil enterprise which is a critical pillar of ISIL's financial infrastructure.

As I said last Friday, we've already begun to ramp up these deliberate strikes.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: Our Pentagon Correspondent Barbara Starr is joining us now. Barbara, there were some fireworks up at this hearing today, but there were not, necessarily, a whole lot of clear answers about this shifting strategy in the fight against ISIS in both Iraq and Syria. What's the bottom line?

BARBARA STARR, CNN PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT: Well, look, Wolf, when you talk to officials here at the Pentagon, they will tell you, look for a change in tone by Ash Carter, by the Pentagon leadership and the commanders. But that tone still a little bit clouded because we don't know how far President Obama really is willing to go, how much additional action he is going to authorize. Carter went so far as to actually say there would be, in military terms, direct action on the ground.

What is direct action? Direct action, Wolf, is combat on the ground. But there's no question about it, the president still would have to approve any kind of new activity that would go beyond the current rules of engagement which allow the U.S. troops to, basically, train, advise, assist and accompany U.S. coalition forces, Iraqi forces into the fight.

But the fireworks were considerable and one set of fireworks came from Senator Lindsey Graham, obviously a presidential candidate, obviously a beleaguered campaign by him. But, still, plenty of fireworks from him for Carter. Have a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. LINDSEY GRAHAM (R-SC), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: How do we leverage Assad leaving when Russia is going to fight for him? Iran's going to fight for him. Hezbollah is fighting for him. And we're not going to do a damn thing to help people take him down. Do you see any credible military threat to take him down, General Dempsey?

GEN. MARTIN DEMPSEY, CHAIRMAN, U.S. JOINT CHIEFS OF STAFF: I think the balance of forces, right now, are on Assad's advantage.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

STARR: That is the chairman of the Joint Chiefs making his first appearance before the Senate Armed Services Committee after his confirmation, saying, as of today, the balance of forces in Assad's advantage. And that led to considerable, shall we say, vigorous questioning from many senators, including John McCain, who are very adamant that they do not believe the U.S. is doing enough. Because now that Russia's there, the Iranians are there, Lebanese, Hezbollah is there on the ground in Syria. They believe that Assad is simply bolstered.

And if the U.S. doesn't take some action against Assad with a no-fly zone or some other military strategy, whatever the Pentagon has planned, simply will not be enough to get Assad out of power and get ISIS defeated -- Wolf.

BLITZER: All right, Barbara, thanks very much.

Let's get some more on the shifting U.S. strategy in the Middle East. Angus King is the independent senator from Maine. He's a member of the Senate Armed Services Committee.

Senator King, thanks very much for joining us. You were there in the room. You heard the testimony today. I first want to get your reaction to the breaking news, our Global Affairs Correspondent Elise Labott now reporting, quoting U.S. officials, "that Iran for the first time has been invited to join in these international negotiations with the United States involving the future of Syria." Not only Russia is involved but Iran will now be involved as well. Your reaction?

SEN. ANGUS KING (I), MAINE: Well, I think my reaction is that we've got to have Iran and Russia focusing on the necessity of moving Assad aside. They are both concerned about ISIS. They are both enemies of ISIS. But they're trying to have it both ways, supporting Assad and also opposing ISIS. That isn't going to work. Assad and ISIS are kind of evil twins. Assad, in many ways, brought ISIS into being.

[13:05:03] So, the fact that Iran and Russia are ready to talk about what we're going to do in trying to move Assad aside, I think is probably a positive development. We're always uncomfortable negotiating with people like Iran and having those discussions. But I remember President Kennedy saying we should not negotiate out of fear but never fear to negotiate.

And so, this -- it's going -- this is going to have to happen, Wolf, if we're going to get Assad out. It's going to take Iran, particularly Russia, deciding that he no longer viable. And that keeping him there is only going to keep ISIS going. And ISIS is a direct threat to Russia. And they're going to have to make that calculus.

BLITZER: Because this represents a significant shift in the Obama administration's strategy, right now, as the future of Syria is concerned. The U.S., of course, was willing to negotiate directly with Iran on the nuclear deal. But always said it was not talking to Iran about what was going on in Iraq, was not coordinating with Iran against ISIS in Iraq, was not coordinating with Iran, as far as the war against ISIS, in Syria is concerned.

But now, under enormous pressure from the Russians, the U.S. now is ready to bring Iran into all of this. And you think this is long overdue. Is that what I'm hearing?

KING: Well, I don't know if I'd say long overdue but I think it's got to be part of the path to getting out. Remember, the goal here is to move Assad aside. Iran and Russia have been propping him up for many years. Without their support, he would have been gone two years ago.

So, if we're going to get rid of him, they have to be at the table. And they have to somehow have to realize that it's in their national interest as well as the people of Syria to get rid of him. So, I cautiously think that it could be a positive development. You can't solve a problem if you don't have all the players at the table.

BLITZER: But you know what the critics will say, that the Iranians and the Russians, they want to prop up the regime of Bashar Al Assad, Damascus. They consider him the proper (ph) or the legitimate power in Syria. If anything, they say the U.S. is going to have to come around in the fight against ISIS, accept Bashar Al Assad's regime in Damascus. Your reaction to that criticism which almost certainly will unfold if the U.S. is capitulating to Iran and Russia as opposed to the opposite?

KING: Well, I don't know how anybody can say anybody is capitulating if all you're doing is beginning discussions. So, I just don't think that's relevant. I don't think the U.S. is going to be accede to Assad being left in power. I think that's part of the -- part of the goal here.

In fact, you know, the Russians are playing a sort of dangerous game in a sense that they -- this could become a quagmire for them, because they are really swimming against the tide of the opinion of the vast majority of the -- of the Syrian people.

And by taking Assad's side, by entering into doing these air strikes in western Syria against the non-ISIS opposition, they are really solidifying their place as part of the problem, as far as Assad is concerned. So, as I say -- as I said at the beginning, I think what has to happen is that Russia and Iran have to figure out that ISIS is really the more serious threat than keeping Assad in power.

And, you know, that's the dilemma for us as well. We're trying to fight ISIS and not be on the ground against Assad. And it's -- that's a very difficult problem.

And I asked some of the same questions that Lindsey Graham asked today. If Iran and Russia are determined to keep Assad in power, it's going to be very difficult for the opposition to overcome them. But the follow on question is, OK, so what do we do? Do we want to get involved in what would then turn into a major proxy war with Russia over Assad? I think the diplomatic course is one that really needs to be pursued first.

BLITZER: What's your understanding, Senator King, to this apparent new shift recommended by officials at the Pentagon and elsewhere that the U.S. become more assertive, get involved in more potential boots on the ground combat in going after ISIS, whether in Ramadi, in Syria or Raqqa -- excuse me, Ramadi or Raqqa, the ISIS headquarters in Syria. Until now, there have been no U.S. boots on the ground in Syria. There are about 4,000 U.S. troops in Iraq but none in Syria. Are you ready to support that potential dramatic shift?

KING: No. And I think -- I think Barbara, your Correspondent, previously was accurate when she said the administration's response, Secretary Carter's response, today was cloudy. They talked about upping the ante on air strikes. I think everyone understands that.

[13:10:01] They talked about hitting them in the oil and where they're getting their revenues. I think everybody understands we can support that. Going after the high value of leadership, that's fine. But this -- exactly what they were saying and what they meant, in terms of more combat involvement, was pretty vague.

And my position all along has been not only should we not do that, from our point of view, but that it would be a gift to ISIS. If -- they want this to be a war between the west and Islam. That's the way they'd like to characterize this dispute. If we have American troops in there or western troops, that would be -- that would rejuvenate their now, I think, stalled momentum. So, I think that would be a real mistake.

Now, what exactly were they proposing? Were they talking about a little more active training, embedding for advice, for leadership, intelligence? It was unclear in today's hearing. But if we're talking about significant U.S. troop involvement in Syria, that would be a huge change of policy. I don't think that's what they were saying today. And I certainly wouldn't support it because I don't think it would work.

BLITZER: Senator King, thanks very much for joining us.

KING: Thank you, Wolf.

BLITZER: Angus King of Maine, a member of the Armed Services Committee. We're going to stay on top of the breaking news and a significant shift in U.S. policy. The U.S. now willing to go along and invite Iran to participate in international negotiations, dealing with the future of Syria represents a shift of the U.S. policy and strategy.

Up next, there's other news we're following. A new name at the top of the latest nationwide Republican poll. We're going to talk about. And the stakes at tomorrow night's GOP debate.

Plus, the FBI is announcing it will investigate this high school incident. A school resource officer appearing to forcefully take down a student down. We're going to examine the video. Much more on this and all the day's important news coming up.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[13:16:11] BLITZER: Here in the United States, in the race for the White House, two new political polls out today, and some of the numbers may surprise you. First, the Monmouth University poll of likely Iowa Democratic caucus goers, Hillary Clinton holds a very commanding 41 point lead over Senator Bernie Sanders. She's at 65 percent, Sanders is at 24 percent. The former Maryland governor, Martin O'Malley, is at only 5 percent.

Let's discuss this and more with our senior Washington correspondent Jeff Zeleny, and our own Sunlen Serfaty.

Jeff, first to you. Let's talk about this poll. This is the first poll since Secretary Clinton's appearance before the Benghazi committee last week, since Joe Biden's, the vice president's announcement that he would not mount a presidential campaign. Is this trend where she's building up her lead over Bernie Sanders, does that seem to be moving forward?

JEFF ZELENY, CNN SENIOR WASHINGTON CORRESPONDENT: Wolf, there's no question that Secretary Clinton has had the strongest past couple weeks of her entire campaign, really beginning with that debate, the CNN debate in Las Vegas, you know, going forward with escaping the possibility of running against Joe Biden, and then, of course, that, you know, strong performance at the Benghazi hearing. But I think these numbers, even folks that I've talked to inside the Clinton campaign say they wish she had this big of a lead in Iowa.

The Iowa caucuses are tricky. They are very difficult to survey, very difficult to poll. And they know that, you know, there are a lot of liberal progressives who always turn out to the Iowa caucuses who like the Bernie Sanders' message. So I was in Iowa over the weekend talking to so many Iowa Democrats there and there are people who find Bernie Sanders' message very resonant here. So she's trying to really capitalize on this last strong couple weeks of her -- of her campaign and trying not to squander this. But she knows that this is not going to be an easy path necessarily, and I think these numbers are slightly optimistic at this point.

BLITZER: Still a long time to go. A lot of work to do.

Sunlen, you're in Boulder, Colorado, right now. That's the site of tomorrow night's Republican presidential debate. And now for the first time, Ben Carson is ahead of Donald Trump in a new CBS News/"New York Times" national poll among Republicans. Look at the numbers. Carson leading with 26 percent, Trump in second place with 22 percent. That's still within the margin of error. Marco Rubio, Jeb Bush, Carly Fiorina, they round out the top five, as you see there.

Now Donald Trump is brushing off this latest poll, at least on one of the morning talk shows earlier today. He said he simply just didn't get it. But does this poll clearly raise the stakes for both Carson and Trump at tomorrow night's debate?

SUNLEN SERFATY, CNN CORRESPONDENT: It absolutely does, Wolf. You know, Ben Carson has the momentum right now, but he has to hold on it to and really prove his frontrunner status up there on the debate stage. And for Donald Trump, we'll see him tomorrow night really for the first time on the defense, hitting that stage for the first time not in the national lead. So certainly this tug of war that really has emerged between the two will really be amplified up there on the debate stage. They'll be standing side by side at center stage.

Now, for his part, as you mentioned, Donald Trump has been trying to downplaying Carson's surge in the polls, but it is clear that he's really bothered by this. He's really laser focused right in on Ben Carson in the last 24, 48 hours, really -- really hitting him on a barrage of new attacks today, going after him on Medicare, going after his religion, and also still commenting that he believes Ben Carson is too low energy for the presidency. So this will be the challenge, Wolf, for Ben Carson up there on the debate stage now that he is the new target as the new frontrunner.

BLITZER: Sunlen Serfaty, Jeff Zeleny, guys, thank very much.

The latest Republican poll highlights the fact that Jeb Bush is struggling right now. But now, one day before the Republican debate, there is news from the Bush campaign that he's stepping up his game.

For more I'm joined by Tim Miller, he's the communications director of Jeb Bush's presidential campaign.

[13:20:04] Tim, thanks very much for joining us.

So give us a little preview of what we can expect from the former Florida governor tomorrow night. TIM MILLER, COMMUNICATIONS DIRECTOR, JEB BUSH CAMPAIGN: Hey, Wolf,

thanks for having me.

You know, tomorrow night, I think what Jeb is going to do is frame this race as, he is the guy that can fix the problems that face D.C. I mean D.C. is broken, it's incompetent, it's corrupt, and we need somebody with a proven conservative record that voters can trust to fix these problems, to help them rise up. And if you look across the stage, Jeb really stands apart from the other competitors. We feel like framing the race like that, he's going to be in good position.

BLITZER: Because Donald Trump keeps going after him, not only suggesting that Jeb Bush has, quote, "low energy," and you hear that all the time from Donald Trump. He says Ben Carson has probably even lower energy than Jeb Bush. But he also says he's not ready to fight for America, and referring to the frustration that Jeb Bush seemed to show the other day when he said he hates this nasty tone of this campaign. Here's how Trump responded.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: And he was very angry over the week. He said, you know, if this is going to be this nasty, let them have Trump as their president. It's going to be nasty. Hey, Putin is a nastier guy than me.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: So what's his strategy tomorrow night to deal with Trump, because I'm sure we're going to hear more of that tomorrow night.

MILLER: Sure, Wolf. I think your own reporter, Ashley Keylo (ph), was there in South Carolina when Governor Bush made those comments and she reported that it had the biggest, loudest response in the room. Do you know why? Because he's connecting with the frustrations that voters feel. They look at D.C. They see that nothing's gotten done. There's just gridlock. There's a lot of people, particularly in the Democrat Party, who are just pointing fingers. They're not actually trying to, you know, fix the problems that face this country. And, you know, Donald Trump is in that camp, too.

And so Jeb Bush is a clear contrast from Donald in that front. You know, he's going to actually try to fix D.C., get the economy going again, make us a leader in the world, whereas Donald Trump's foreign policy is outside the mainstream of the Republican Party. It's really closer to Hillary Clinton's. So I think the contrast on those issues is going to be clear tomorrow night.

BLITZER: One quick question, on Marco Rubio, the senator from Florida, there's been some bad blood apparently lately between Jeb Bush and Marco Rubio, two Floridians, I should point out. How's he going to deal with Marco Rubio? Why is he better qualified to be president than Rubio?

MILLER: You know, we'll see, Wolf. This is a campaign and differences come out in a campaign. And for us, if you look at Jeb's proven, conservative record, you know, in Florida he cut taxes by $19 billion. He reformed the education system. He reformed Medicaid. He cut the state spending and the state workforce. I mean this is a guy who has a proven record of solving problem. And we've got a lot of problems facing us in Washington.

If you look at Marco and some of the other competitors on the stage, you know, they don't have that same experience to draw on. And, you know, we've had a risky -- we took a risky bet with President Obama seven years ago. That didn't work out. I think what the voters are looking for is somebody who has proven experience to get the country on the right track.

BLITZER: So Rubio would be a risky bet, like President Obama was, is that the -- the impression I should have?

MILLER: Well, yes, look, it's not known. You know, Marco has not shown the leadership abilities to actually get things done, to actually have accomplishments. I mean this is a huge contrast with Jeb and Hillary Clinton. We need somebody in the general election that's going to be a stark contrast from Hillary's record, which is no accomplishment, she passed no bills in the Senate. Her time at the secretary of state was a disaster. Compare that to what Jeb did in Florida, turning the state around. So I think that that's a big contrast point for Jeb, and that's something that we're going to continue to focus on in this campaign.

BLITZER: Tim Miller is the communications director for the Bush campaign. Tim, thanks very much for joining us.

MILLER: Hey, Wolf, thanks a lot.

BLITZER: Coming up, a disturbing video that sparked a firestorm on social media here in the United States. A high school student dragged from class by a school resource officer. Now we have breaking news on the story. The FBI now involved. Secretary -- former Secretary Hillary Clinton is speaking out about the case. We'll have a live interview with the mayor of Columbia, South Carolina, that's coming up.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[13:28:41] BLITZER: We have breaking news out of South Carolina. The FBI is now investigating a very disturbing incident at a Columbia, South Carolina, high school. This comes after a video of the violent act sparked outrage on social media and beyond. You can see the school resource officer there pick up the chair of a female student, slamming her to the ground, dragging her across the floor as classmates looked on and recorded the incident. The FBI is launching an investigation into this incident.

Let's bring in our Jason Carroll and -- who's watching all of this unfold.

We just learned about yet a second arrest in this classroom. What can you tell us, Jason?

JASON CARROLL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, this was a second student, Wolf, who was in that math class as this was all going on when she apparently stood up and protested and spoke out about what she was seeing, what was happening to her classmate. Allegedly what happened is, she also was arrested. She also apparently facing a charge of disturbing schools just as that student there who was, as you can see, roughed up in the eyes of those who were there, and taken into custody as well and arrested and charged with disturbing schools as well.

[13:29:50] Let's just backtrack just a little bit to just give some context off what happened here. What we're understanding is apparently, this officer Ben Fields, a sheriff's department deputy, called to the school. He's also an S.R.O. officer. Called to the school there after this student in question refused to leave the classroom.