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Legal View with Ashleigh Banfield

Richland Co. Sheriff Says FBI Will Decide Whether To Charge Deputy; S.C. Deputy Fired After Harsh School Arrest. Aired 12:30-1p ET

Aired October 28, 2015 - 12:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

(JOINED IN PROGRESS)

[12:30:00] SHERIFF LEON LOTT, RICHLAND COUNTY, SOUTH CAROLINA: ... and have a voice in what we say, that's totally wrong. I mean, we work for the people, and there's nothing we should hide from our citizens, and that's why we have a citizens advisory council.

So, what I've learn is that the hard work and the efforts that we have put in all these years, it worked. It worked, and it's showing that it's continuing to work, and we'll move forward with it. Yes, ma'am?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: In terms of Maria Kennedy (ph) the student who was not involved directly in that video but was charge with disrupting class afterward. If her a disruption in class came after almost in response to what she saw happens at the deputy and that student. Why wouldn't her charges been taken off, if you're saying that that deputy acted out of putting (inaudible).

LOTT: And that is something for the prosecutor to decided that not legal in the side. She disrupted the class, you saw other students who did not disrupted class. They sat there, and they did what students were supposed to be. And that is well disciplined. Now, the language that she used and some of her actions disrupted -- continued to disrupt the class, but again, the charges have been made, and that will be determined at a later date what's going to be happening.

Well, that's not something decision that I'll make today. Again, my whole focus has been since this happened on Monday, is did my deputy do something that he shouldn't have done, and that's what we focused on.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Can you maybe say what a citizen or a student that they should do if they see a police acting inappropriately? So they simply are stated (ph).

LOTT: Exactly what some of those people did, and that's film it, and give us the opportunity to address it. And that's what those students did. They filmed it, and we are addressing it and that's what citizens should do. You know, I would hope that every citizen, you know, that has a cell phone that has a camera on it, they see something that is going on that they got questions about, then they need to film it, and then they need to get to the proper people, and let us look at it, and see if it is something that's being done incorrectly or not. I can't fix problems if I don't know about it, and that's what we look for our citizens to do. Our citizens should police the police, and that's their job too, to police us, and make sure we're doing our job the right way, and when we don't, then it is up to me, and other law enforcement leaders to fix those problems. And either we correct the problems or we get rid of the problem, and that's what we are doing. Somebody's hand is up way in the back.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: My question is, if you citizen that would like to police and police (ph). And then also includes students who're responding to the policies but (inaudible) that help decide the policy and (inaudible) tackle a classmate?

LOTT: Should they record it? Yes. I mean, when I say...

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And the right people who circle this student that they've also citizen, they have the right to do that.

LOTT: Yeah. I think everybody is a citizen. Regardless of your age or if you're sitting in the classroom or walking down the street. All right. Thank you all.

(END OF PRESS CONFERENCE)

ASHLEIGH BANFIELD, CNN ANCHOR: There you have Sheriff Leon Lott bringing down the hammer, effectively 45 minutes ago on the sheriff's deputy who was seen on that now infamous videotape in that classroom body slamming, and desk flipping and ultimately throwing a 16-year-old student after she had been disruptive not once, twice, but three different times.

Here it is. Chances are that you have seen it, chances are you seen it a lot, and now investigators over the course of the last 48 hours have pored over this video as well, and it made a determination that Deputy Ben Fields seen in that video has lost his job. The Sheriff making several poignant points in the news conference that that part wasn't as important as the throwing of the student, it was not the flipping, it was the throwing, it was all about policy and procedure, and the sheriff said that the deputy didn't follow it, but is 48 hours enough time to make the determination that was made? Some say yes, some say no.

[12:34:10] Hear both sides next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

LOTT: The fact that he picked the student up and threw the student across the room, that is not a proper technique and should not be used in law enforcement, and based on that, that is a violation of our policy, and approximately 20 minutes ago school resource officer Ben Fields was terminated from the Richland County Sheriff's Department.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BANFIELD: And that is Sheriff Leon Lott of Richland County down in that Columbia South Carolina effectively announcing that this case as far as he is concerned is over. They've looked at the policy, and they have fired the deputy who threw that student across the room. It has been seen over and over again on a video that has gone viral. This is the deputy in question, Ben Fields, he learned his fate about 50 minutes ago that he would lose his job for this act right here, throwing the student across the room, and not flipping the student out of the desk, the sheriff was clear. It was within his right to try to remove that student from the desk, and from that classroom, and it is the subsequent tossing of the student across that classroom that violated school policy, it violated the policy of the school resource officers. And therein was the rub. That's what caused him to lose his job.

Martin Savidge is live in Columbia, South Carolina, he's been following this, also with us I want to bring in Mo Canady who's the Executive Director for the National Association of School Resource Officer, HLN Legal Analyst and Defense Attorney Joey Jackson is with me here in New York as CNN Legal Paul Callan a Criminal Defense Attorney a former Prosecutor.

[12:40:14] Martin, first to you, if you could bring me to this school that you're standing in front of so much has happened in just this few short 48 hours. What been the response from everybody, the administrators there, the parents who have dropped their kids off for class, and of course, the officers.

MARTIN SAVIDGE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Ever since that video or videos I should say began showing up on social media, everyone who has seen them has pretty much said what the officer did was wrong. That was repeated by members of the school board last night. They found it totally unacceptable and it was also said by other school administrators, interesting to note that according to the sheriff both the teacher and the one administrator who was in the classroom at the time actually support Ben Fields here. During that news conference, I was sort of glancing back at the high school behind me just to see if there was any reaction there, and so far, there has been none either in a sort of spontaneous way or any kind of an official announcement.

It is obvious that any officer losing their job, regardless for a reason is not a point that somebody is going to be celebrating. So we continue to monitor, this was not unexpected, in fact just about everybody in those community, probably inside that school knew that this officer's days were numbered the moment that video got out.

BANFIELD: What to bring in Mo Canady on that very topic with your background as the director of the National Association of School Resource Officers.

Mo, I know that your group did not trained this particular deputy and doesn't train those school resource officer in this state. But you certain know the business and you can't be surprised either, were you surprised though that the sheriff outlined it was just the tossing of the student across the room, and not the initial removal from the desk that looked so violent?

MO CANADY, EXEC. DIR. NATL. ASSN. OF SCHOOL RESOURCES OFFICERS: Well, I was not surprised by the end result. Yesterday, I said all we had was the small video snippet and that, you know, once we had the luxury of finding out what all happened that led up to that it would answer the question much better and looks like the sheriff got he's answers. So no, I was not surprised by his response, and certainly he laid it out in a great deal of detail.

I think one of the things that's important to look at are what are the things that could have changed the response once the officer was brought in, and I know there's a lot of questions, or even suggests that the sheriff raised about the school police officers, and their involvement in disciplinary situations, but setting that aside, once the officer is brought into the situation, and it's clear you're going to have difficulty with the student, there are a number of steps that can be taken to de-escalate that situation before you ever get to the point of having force. And that is what we are about teaching, not necessarily the tactics, but the de-escalation techniques.

BANFIELD: Well, I want to ask you about the de-escalation, because so many people who have seen the video and were appalled at the outset. Subsequently learned of the incident prior to that and that was the third attempt the de-escalation for this student. And she was having no part of it. The sheriff happened to mention that there was another option for this school resource officer, and that is something called pain compliance. But pain compliance on a video could have looked just as catastrophic, do you agree?

CANADY: Well, there are many things on video that look horrible, and at the end of the day, we find that they are not necessarily as horrible as they looked. I'm not suggesting that in this incident, but what I'm suggesting is there are still some things that possibly could have been done from the de-escalation standpoint. One of those you heard yesterday, and I believe the sheriff even mentioned it, and it's one of the things that we teach is to remove the audience.

When you got a student that's not being compliant, remove the audience, remove the other children and the students that are around, and that can be helpful to the situation, because what that leads to is the opportunity for you even as a school police officer to have some excellent communication with the student, and also to ask the student questions. In other words, what's going on today? What is wrong? And many times once the student's peers or audience is removed, they will open up. I've seen it happened many times.

BANFIELD: And it's absolutely brilliant observation, and several people have said there's an audience two ways, there's the audience that the kid wants to remain sort of credible with the street-cred, and then there's the audience that the officer wants and needs, and that is that we don't stand for this. I think you're absolutely right. But my question is this, who's responsibility, would it have been to tell all of the rest of the kids to get out of the classroom? The resource officer who's there to make the arrest or the teacher and the administrator?

[12:45:03] CANADY: No, that would be the responsibility of the administration, and that would be at the request of the SRO. When it looks like we're getting into a difficult situation, their SRO. would ask the administrator to please excuse the other students from the classroom.

BANFIELD: Well, who knows, you know, in hindsight whether that would have made a difference, but certainly, I think you're spot-on with the notion that kids behave very, very differently when other kids aren't around. Thank you so much.

CANADY: Thank you.

BANFIELD: Good to have you. Want to bring in the legal issue here too, because what you heard from the sheriff was so critical with regard to not only Deputy Ben Fields, but also the two students who were arrested. They are not backing down from the arrest or the charges, and it sounds from the language that they are going to be prosecuted, too, what will they face? That is next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[12:50:01] Columbia South Carolina Deputy is now one hour out of a job after that viral video showed him up ending a student out of her desk, and then throwing her across the room after she in the words of the sheriff, started it all by disrupting this classroom and refusing three levels of authority to leave the classroom. All of it based on her use of a cell phone in class, there are so many issues still left to resolve though on the legal front, and that is he may be out of the job, but he's going to have to face the judge and what about the student, and then the other student who stood up to support her.

They've been charged with this as well. I want to bring in Paul Callan and Joey Jackson on this one.

First to you Paul Callan, all of this coming down very quickly, at the sheriff admitted just within 48 hours of the incident, he is out of the job. Is that the appropriate amount of time for an investigation to let this man go?

PAUL CALLAN, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: No, I think that was lightning fast resolution of the case. I can understand it, and by the way, I think the force here was excessive, and I think that the officer acted improperly, but we're talking about somebody losing their job permanently for this action and it seems to me that 48 hours didn't even give the officer an opportunity to present an adequate defense. I mean, you know, notice that the whole focus was on what the sheriff called throwing her across the room.

Now, some people might say that was not being -- nobody was being thrown, she was being pulled out of the chair which she was trying to hold on to, I know there maybe other angles, all I'm saying is, I think more time would have been necessary to really see all of the film and analyze them adequately.

JOEY JACKSON, HLN LEGAL ANALYST: Well, let assess that for me.

BANFIELD: But what Paul said be really clear...

JACKSON: OK. BANFIELD: ... is that there's resolution, procedurally. The sheriff says there's resolution, because procedurally is all he was concerned about. He was not concern with the criminal potential of this case, he has turned everything over to the FBI.

JACKSON: Absolutely.

BANFIELD: He wants independent, you know, agents to be looking at any kind of other action that could result from this.

JACKSON: That's right.

BANFIELD: And I want you to touch on that as well.

JACKSON: Sure. But look, on the issue of time. What will we know tomorrow that we don't know today, are the policies going to change or the procedures going to change? This is what the sheriff did, he took the statements from witnesses who were there. He took them within the 48 hour period. He assessed those statements. He allowed experts to craft reports regarding whether the use of force was appropriate, he analyzed that. He actually looked at the videotape, that all of us looked at, so next or the week after what would change.

And so, I think certainly 48 hours is more than appropriate, furthermore we're talking about administrative disciple, we're not talking about criminality, and I'm sure Paul, you've done a bench trial in a day or two, I've been bench trial before a judge in a day or two.

BANFIELD: Yes, but (inaudible).

JACKSON: I think also -- yes. But I think also as a matter of public trust, why do we need the delays? And I think this is...

CALLAN: Well, Joey, you have some substantial experience representing the correctional officers and other people who work for the state of New York, you have somebody lose their job in 48 hours?

JACKSON: I've seen summaries, suspensions done immediately.

CALLAN: Suspensions.

JACKSON: And then their (inaudible) the investigation, but it's (inaudible).

(CROSSTALK)

CALLAN: No, no, no. I'm asking you. And you're an experience guy in this field. Have you seen correction officers fired in 48 hours?

JACKSON: Well, I can't say I have only because there are policies that the union has that prohibits that, that don't apply to this jurisdiction.

(CROSSTALK)

CALLAN: And those policies are base there.

JACKSON: And so if the policies don't apply.

CALLAN: Unfairness those...

JACKSON: They're based on collective bargaining agreements that base upon discussions that had with the mayor and the commissioner that base on a whole bunch of other thing.

CALLAN: All of which is...

(CROSSTALK)

JACKSON: And we have to deal with the policies.

CALLAN: They're here.

BANFIELD: I have two more topics that I need you to cover.

JACKSON: Yes, OK.

BANFIELD: And that is that number one, we still have potential of criminal action, because the FBI is still investigating this case, there still the justice department looking whether Civil Rights of this young woman, the 16-year-old woman were deprived and then there are other charges against the kids, because both of them are facing misdemeanor charges right now. So let just start with the first part, and that is the investigation that continues the chances that Officer Fields is actually going to be face the judge.

CALLAN: On criminal charges...

BANFIELD: Yeah.

CALLAN: ... himself, I think probably next to zero. As a matter of fact I'm really -- I'm surprised that they're making into a federal crime so quickly. I mean, we had running out of crime, this is a case involving, you know, discipline in a classroom. I really think it's kind of escalated way beyond where it should be in terms of criminality.

Now, did the officer act inappropriately? Yes, I think he did. I think it was probably an excessive use of force, though I think it's a federal crime? I think they get better things to investigate.

BANFIELD: What about the Civil Right defamation?

JACKSON: Look, what is the issue. Well, let's talk about this. First of all the FBI is involved because the sheriff asked them to be involved. There's issues across the country, this sheriff, he not, he knows what the story is, you don't want it to appear this is a conflict of interest, that he felt that an outside independent entity such as the federal government would be most appropriate, and what they're going to looked at, that is the federal government. I would not be so dismissive of the criminal charges. They are going to look at the deprivation of the civil liberties there, and if the federal government find that there's an intentional deprivation of Civil Right. What is that right? The right to be free and clear from excessive force then there is a problem.

[12:55:06] BANFIELD: I got 30 seconds left, and I need you to touch on the girls.

JACKSON: OK, go ahead.

BANFIELD: Because we got two girls here who are hauled down in cuffs and taken down to the station. And the sheriff said, the first one who started this incident, "She is responsibility for starting this incident. She violated the law." Ten seconds on whether these two are going to be facing the music, and what they will face?

CALLAN: Well, it's a misdemeanor charge under South Carolina law, and 90 days in jail, $1,000 fine is the maximum that they face.

BANFIELD: And that's it for South Carolina

CALLAN: OK.

BANFIELD: All right. Well, obviously this isn't over, we're going to continue the conversation when the investigation continues as well. Thank you to both of you. Paul Callan.

CALLAN: Thank you.

BANFIELD: Joey Jackson. I can't believe the program is already over. It was a quick one. Thank so much everyone. Wolf is going to take the baton right after this break.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)