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Trump Enters Debate In Second Place In New Poll; Third Republican Debate Focuses On Economy; Trump Tells Iowa To Get His Poll Numbers Up; Carson Needs To Comment On Policies; Kasich States He's Had It With These People; S.C. Deputy's Future Announced; Holding Off ISIS; Sheriff's Deputy Fired For Violent Classroom Arrest. Aired 1- 1:30p ET

Aired October 28, 2015 - 13:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: Hello, I'm Wolf Blitzer. It's 11:00 a.m. in Boulder, Colorado, 1:00 p.m. here in Washington, 8:00 p.m. on Baghdad. Wherever you're watching from around the world, thanks very much for joining us.

It's the economy stupid (ph). From Wall Street to main street, the economy is a huge campaign issue for voters so there's a lot at stake for candidates at tonight's third Republican debate. It's an opportunity for candidates to change the conversation of the campaign to try to steer it away from Donald Trump a bit to allow them to present more of their economic and business platforms. But that's going to be a tall the order.

In this CBS-"New York Times" poll released, for the first time, Ben Carson is ahead of Donald Trump nationally among Republicans. Many people will be watching to see how that matchup will play out on the debate stage tonight.

Carson talked about the poll in a Facebook post. Let me read to you what he wrote. I have only been the frontrunner for a few hours, but I know I'm not standing alone. I am standing with millions of you who, like me, have lost faith in our so-called leaders. Millions together who want to turn our country around to save the future for our children and grandchildren. We stand united in that purpose.

As you can imagine, Donald Trump did not take a quiet approach in reacting to the new poll numbers. For more on what's going on, let's go to our National Correspondent Sunlen Serfaty. She's there over at the debate site in Boulder. So, how did Trump respond?

SUNLEN SERFATY, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, Wolf, frankly, Donald Trump seems a little perplexed by his drop in the polls saying point blank that he just doesn't get it. But it was interesting at a rally last night in Iowa where he really spoke bluntly, outright acknowledging that he has had a slide in the polls. And that's where he shifted and he really switched to start pleading with voters to help to boost up his poll numbers. Here's what he told voters there at that rally in Sioux City last night.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Iowa, what the hell are you people doing to me? I don't like being second. Second is terrible. Iowa, will you get your numbers up, please. When you get these numbers up, I promise you, I will do such a good job. Oh, by the way, before I forget, will you get the numbers up, Iowa, please? This is ridiculous. And please do me a favor, will let me win, Iowa. I refuse to say, get your asses in gear. I will not say that. Now, if I lose Iowa, I will never speak to you people again. That I can tell you.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SERFATY: And this will be one of the big dynamics up there on that debate stage tonight. Not only Donald Trump reacting, kind of squirming a bit, to his new number two poll standings.

But also, and most importantly, the new frontrunner, Ben Carson, how he'll react with the new target on his back as the new frontrunner status. How he'll be able to defend himself, and how, if at all, he'll return that fire -- Wolf.

BLITZER: Let's see how much fire there is tonight. All right, thanks very much. Sunlen, it appears tonight's debate will certainly be fascinating, not just between Carson and Trump, but for a whole lot more.

Let's discuss what's about to happen with our CNN Political Commentator, the Democratic strategist, Donna Brazile and our CNN Political Commentator, the Republican, S.E. Cupp.

First of all, S.E., when you see Donald Trump reacting --

S.E. CUPP, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Yes.

BLITZER: -- to that, there was one national poll, he's been number one for a hundred days. One national poll. Now, he's number two. Within the margin of error, are you surprised at how negatively he's reacting to that to the folks in Iowa? Three polls in Iowa show he's number two.

CUPP: Well, brace yourself because I think, you know, I've been a pretty out front critic of Donald Trump. I thought that was fantastic. I love that he engaged the voters and said, this is what's at stake for me. I need your help. Come on this journey with me. This is how much I want your vote.

I mean, so many people go to Iowa and the caucus states and sort of act almost, like, detached from the voter. I'm here. I'm here because I have to be. This was a real person. I mean, I -- you know, Trump does plenty that bothers me. I thought that was fantastic.

BLITZER: He's the only politician that I've seen, and I've been covering this kind of stuff for a long-time, who actually talks about all these polls. Most politicians, oh, we don't look at the polls. We don't care about the polls. The only poll that counts is on Election Day, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. You've heard that a million times. He's -- almost on most of his speeches are about these polls, because he was number one. Even when he's number two, he speaks about the polls.

DONNA BRAZILE, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Well, you know, prior to becoming a politician, Donald Trump kept talking about his rating. So, there's something about the numbers that really fits his personality.

But you know what? I think S.E. is right. He's finally saying to the voters in Iowa, he wants to be loved and will return the love. And in return, he's saying, I need your help. I need your help. I want to win this. I want to win this for you.

So, we finally have heard Donald Trump pleading for a little mercy and little love and not just all of this blanket of attention.

[13:05:05] But, Wolf, tonight is a very substantive debate. It's on the economy. They are going to talk about taxes. They are going to talk about the middle class. And they will have to discuss this budget deal that's being voted on today and whether or not they like it. Do they think it's good for America? And if so, why?

BLITZER: I'm sure they'll get into all of those issues. This should be an area of strength for a billionaire businessman --

CUPP: Yes.

BLITZER: -- like Donald Trump who's been in business and deals with the economy every single day of his life.

CUPP: Right. And that's why his is, I think, very important for him. He needs to show that as much as he's been talking about border security and foreign policy, he's actually an expert on this. And so, if he can't dive down on substance on this topic at this debate, I don't know that he has a whole lot to offer in the way of substance on anything.

This should be his night to shine and he's going to have some competition from Carly Fiorina, who, I think, is equally as versed in the language of tonight's debate. But I think if Trump uses this to just kind of swing ad hoc at his - ad hominem at his, you know, opponents, I think this will be a huge missed opportunity.

BLITZER: Is it a -- is it a potential problem for the front runner, at least according to the CBS-"New York Times" poll right now nationally. Dr. Ben Carson who's spent his whole career as a physician?

BRAZILE: No, no. I think Dr. Carson -- look, this is about talking about main street, the middle class and those who are working poor in this country. Will they have plans and policies and programs who will lift people out of poverty or will this be another night where they talk about their wealth.

Look, I'm proud of Donald Trump. He got a million dollars from his parents and he was able to turn it into, what, $10 billion. But how can ordinary Americans turn $7.25 an hour into making sure that they can feed their families and take care of their children? So, this is a debate that will assure they have a connection to ordinary people.

CUPP: Well, and on that, Ben Carson has a very impactful story coming from --

BLITZER: Personal story.

CUPP: -- personal story coming from where he came from. I think, on that, he'll definitely win. But Ben Carson really needs to show that he's got actual ideas and policies. And everywhere he's been asked on a number of topics about ideas and policies, he's really unsure of what he would do to solve very complicated problems. So, I expect him to have a little trouble tonight.

BLITZER: And I thought what was significant yesterday, John Kasich, the Ohio Republican presidential candidate, he says, you know, no more Mr. nice guy. He said, and I'm quoting, I've about had it with these people, referring to some of his Republican challengers. He's going to go -- he's a twice elected governor of Ohio --

CUPP: Yes.

BLITZER: -- which is a critically important state.

CUPP: Look, I -- remember in the last debate, he defended, for a very long time, why he wasn't going to go after Hillary Clinton, the Democratic frontrunner. Go after her. I mean, yes, it's fair to go after your opponents. And I'm sure he will.

But he also has to go against the Democrats and his long-time friends from his years in Congress. If Kasich wants to really make an impact, he's going to have to tell, you know, the country why Democrats have been failing the country, not why, you know, Donald Trump has.

BRAZILE: You know, what I would -- I would tell the Republicans, like I would tell any Democrat, keep your sharp knives at home. This is not fright night. This is an opportunity to present ideas. And Mr. Kasich has talked about turning around his state's economy. He's talked about job creation. That's what the American people want to hear.

If they want to attack, fine. But they better have some ideas that will help them become frontrunners. Otherwise, there are a couple of these candidates that might not survive the night. I'm talking about getting out of Colorado, but not in terms of getting to Iowa in the next couple of days -- couple of months.

BLITZER: Couple of months.

BRAZILE: A couple of months.

BLITZER: Well, anyway, there's a two-tier. There's the lesser tier candidates in the first debate, and then there's the main stage, if you will. BRAZILE: Jeb Bush, this is his moment. Jeb Bush has got to show that he has not just the energy that Donald Trump talks about but the ideas that will really give voters in Iowa and New Hampshire --

BLITZER: Right.

BRAZILE: -- a second look at him.

BLITZER: We'll see what they do. Guys, thanks very much.

And be sure to watch tonight's "A.C. 360" post-debate special. That begins at 10:00 p.m. Eastern. 10:00 p.m. Eastern only here on CNN.

Still ahead, new information on the future of the school resource officer who appeared to slam and drag a high school student in a South Carolina classroom. We're going to tell you what the sheriff there has just announced.

Then later, we're going to take you to the front lines of the fight against ISIS where Kurdish fighters are clearly outnumbered. They are outgunned. What are they doing right now? What is the U.S. role? Stay with us.

[13:09:21]

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BLITZER: The breaking news here in the United States, the sheriff's deputy who was caught on camera body slamming female student, dragging her across a classroom, is now out of a job. A South Carolina resource policy officer, Ben Fields, was fired after a video of the arrest went viral and sparked national outrage. Just a little while ago, his boss, the county sheriff there, admit -- who admitted yesterday that the video made him want to throw up, explained the decision to fire him from the force.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

LEON LOTT, SHERIFF, RICHLAND COUNTY, SOUTH CAROLINA: Deputy Fields did not follow proper training, did not follow proper procedure when he threw the student across the room. From the very beginning, that's what's caused me to be upset. When I first saw that video, and continues to upset me when I see that video, is the fact that he picked the student up, and he threw the student across the room. When you make an arrest from someone who does not have a weapon that you need to escape from, you never let go of that subject. You remain in control of him, the person you're trying to arrest. When he threw her across the room, he lost control of her.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: That's the Richland County sheriff, Leon Lott. Joining us now is the mayor of Columbia, South Carolina, Stephen Benjamin. Mayor, thanks very much for joining us. This school is in your city, although the sheriff's deputy is part of the county. He's not directly related to the city police. What's your reaction to the news that deputy Fields has been fired?

[13:15:07] STEPHEN BENJAMIN, MAYOR, COLUMBIA, SOUTH CAROLINA: Well, I believe -- Wolf, thank you for the opportunity to be here.

I believe the sheriff made the right decision today just based on what we saw, what millions of people all around the world saw. It was a disproportionate response, a use of excessive force on a teenager. And, you know, people have to understand that, as a former head of a criminal justice agency, that our discussion is about public safety, but it's also about public accountability, it's also about public trust. And the ability to police any community, recognizing our police force may have 500 or so officers, we have a jurisdictional population of well over 100,000, metro area of 1 million, you have to have the trust and confidence of the people in order to properly keep a community safe. If that trust is eroded, then it's really a difficult and challenging situation.

BLITZER: There are going to be at least three investigations, the county, the sheriff is investigating, obviously. They've asked the FBI, which is now coming in to investigate, also the Justice Department, the U.S. attorney is being brought in to investigate. Do you have confidence that in all three of these investigations?

BENJAMIN: Certainly. I know that the sheriff called in the - the federal government, and the school district called in a state law enforcement division. I spoke this morning to the U.S. attorney. I've worked closely with him for year. I have confidence in his ability to get to the bottom of whatever he's researching.

But, you know, I appreciate the swift response from the sheriff. It just gives us all, all of us who are public officials, the opportunity again to help people understand that, you know, we've got to focus on training all of our officers. I work side by side with some of the best men in law enforcement in this world. They are heroes. They run towards danger while we're all running in the opposite direction. One incident like this can help erode the incredible amount of trust and loyalty that they've built up over the year. We've got to train our officers, we have to focus on accountability, and we have to make sure we have a transparent justice process.

BLITZER: What about the 16-year-old girl who was dragged across the floor of that classroom? Have you - I understand, I think you've spoken with her parents. I don't know if you've spoken with her? There have been some conflicting reports about her injuries. What can you tell us?

BENJAMIN: I did speak with her mother yesterday. Wolf, you know, just as the sheriff officer communicated, I'm a father of two school aged daughters. Seeing that video shocked me. It scared me as a mayor, as a citizen, and most importantly as a parent. And I would not wish that on any child. We have to remember, and this is a call I believe also for us to look at some - some more systemic reforms. How do we change the nature of law enforcement in South Carolina and across the world. The Disturbance of Schools Act is a real - is a real challenge. If I were held accountable, if you were held accountable, Wolf, or some of the - many people I know who have been successful in this world for things that we did as adolescence in high school or in junior high or middle school, I'm not sure we'd be where we are right now. We have to make sure that we don't take people out of the American economic mainstream by criminalizing adolescent behavior. Let's deal with it. Let's deal with it firmly. Let's require parents to be parents and school administrators to be school administrators, and let cops be cops. But criminalizing adolescent behavior and treating our young people like this is not the way - it's not the way to build public trust.

BLITZER: What did the mother tell you about the girl's condition?

BENJAMIN: She told me she was injured. She told me she was injured. And I want to make sure that when she has her opportunity to speak, that she can share her own story. But she called. She heard some public comment that I made and she called to express her appreciation for our concern regarding her daughter. But, you know, I hope this child recovers, recovers fully. I hope that the other children who have had a chance to view this recover fully. I hope that Deputy Fields has due process and has his day in court to potentially tell his story someday. It's a tragic situation all around. All we can do is figure out ways in which we can come together, learn from this and figure out how, as a community, and I use that word very broadly, this entire nation, can move forward from this.

BLITZER: Mayor, thanks very much for joining us.

BENJAMIN: Thank you, Wolf. Thank you so much.

BLITZER: Good luck to you. good luck to all the folks there in Columbia, South Carolina. Mayor Stephen Benjamin joining us.

The violent classroom arrest now raising serious questions about whether police should be in schools. Coming up, I'll talk with South Carolina Congressman James Clyburn. There you see him. he's standing by live. I'll get his take on whether laws need to be changed to keep something like this from happening again. Stay with us.

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[13:24:07] BLITZER: I want to update you now on the breaking news out of South Carolina. We've just learned that a sheriff's deputy involved in that violent arrest of a young female high school student has now been fired. His boss, the sheriff there in the county, saying an investigation revealed that the deputy sheriff, Ben Fields, did not follow proper procedure when he threw that 16-year-old girl across the room along the floor.

Joining us now from South Carolina is the South Carolina congressman, the Democrat, James Clyburn.

Congressman, thanks very much for joining us.

And I want to get your quick reaction to the sheriff's decision today to fire that deputy.

REP. JAMES CLYBURN (D), SOUTH CAROLINA: Well, thank you very much for having me, Wolf.

I want to thank Mayor - I mean Sheriff Lott for doing what he did as promptly as he did. I know the sheriff very well. I think he did what was proper. Unfortunately, this should not end this. I think that we have to begin to review our school procedures.

[13:25:05] Now, Wolf, as you probably know, I'm a former public school teacher. I started my professional career teaching - in fact, I started teaching eighth graders. And I know what it is to have an eighth grader act up in class. That's not criminal behavior. We all have had young children - well, not all of us, but I have had - I've had teenagers, and sometimes teenagers mouth off. And when they do, we have to treat them as teenagers and we have to conduct ourselves as professionals. That deputy, that resource officer, did not conduct himself as a professional dealing with a young developing child. And we should always keep in mind that all of us have been young ourselves, and all of us know that we, at sometimes, act out our age, but adults must always act their age as well. And this resource officer did not act his age, did not follow procedure.

And let me tell you something else, we've got to change these laws in South Carolina. I've been talking about these repressive laws that we've been putting on the books in recent years. The fact of the matter is, we've had 1,200, the third biggest level of arrests in South Carolina now for school disorders. That is crazy stuff. We've got these young people developing criminal records for the rest of their lives, then we tell them you can't vote once you get the criminal record, and we are doing that to young, high school and junior high school. That is an abomination that we need to look at in South Carolina and stop some of this foolishness.

BLITZER: Well, do you think it's time to change the law in South Carolina and get those sheriff's deputies out of these schools?

CLYBURN: Absolutely. They can be in the schools to protect the student, but they've got no business in a classroom meting out discipline. Discipline in the classroom belongs to the teacher. The teacher should go to the administrator. The administrator should never bring any kind of a deputy sheriff into the classroom unless there's some kind of bodily harm being threatened. If somebody is using their cell phone that should not be, that should not lead to a criminal arrest, and certainly should not lead to personal injury. A 13-year- old girl, I'm sorry, is not 13 years old but -

BLITZER: Sixteen.

CLYBURN: Sixteen-year-old young girl being treated that way by a 300- pound weight lifter. This guy looked like he was practicing his weight lifting on that little girl. This is crazy stuff. And we all know it. And we in South Carolina ought to be ashamed of it and we ought to respond the way we should respond and that is to take a look at these draconian laws that we put on the books, and take a look at the procedure involving resource officers in the classrooms. They ought to be there to protect outsiders from coming in and harming kids who are sitting in the classroom, never to mete out discipline to an unruly child. Because most children I know at one time or another are in fact unruly.

BLITZER: As you know, "The State," that's the newspaper in Columbia, South Carolina, they're out with an editorial describing how this young girl's arrest is challenging the entire state, just as the state was challenged by other incidents, including that Charleston, South Carolina, church massacre back in June, the police shooting of an unarmed black man in April. Let me read to you from the editorial. "It is essential that we again show amazing peace, calm and togetherness. We inspired ourselves and the nation before. We must do it again." What's your recommendation to the folks there in South Carolina? What's the most important thing, congressman, you need to do?

CLYBURN: Well, let me remind you of back in the '60s, in fact, I was arrested on that day back in 1961 when we challenged the breach of the peace laws in South Carolina. They passed laws back in the 1960s to keep us from exercising our rights to peaceably assemble. We know these are reactions to certain things. Certainly there are times when we have problems in the classrooms. There are times when we have problems on the school grounds. But let's take a look at these laws and see whether or not they are laws being put in place to protect or put in place to mete out some kind of a punishment which could ruin children for the rest of their lives.

What happens to the young lady who took the video? She, too, was arrested and handcuffed. That is crazy stuff that ought not be happening to young people, to children on the school ground. I have a daughter that teaches at one of the feeder schools for Spring Valley. She's over at Dent (ph) Middle School. We talk all the time about what the challenges are for middle school students. Certainly they're going to act out. But we, as adults, must act like adults, irrespective of how children may act.

[13:30:13] BLITZER: Good point. Congressman, thanks very much for joining us.

CLYBURN: Thank you so much for having me.

BLITZER: James Clyburn of South Carolina.