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ANDERSON COOPER 360 DEGREES
President Obama for the first time publicly saying that it is possible a bomb brought down Metro Jet 9268; American and British intelligence telling that the signs point to ISIS involvement; Sources: Lt. Gliniewicz's Son, Widow Investigated in Connection with Embezzlement; Trump Attacks Rubio's Financial History. Aired 8-9p ET
Aired November 5, 2015 - 20:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[20:00:07] ANDERSON COOPER, CNN HOST: Good evening.
We begin tonight with two pieces of breaking news. First and foremost, something that could affect anyone that travels here at home. We are learning the TSA is weighing changes to U.S. airport security in the wake of the Metro Jet 9268 crash, that and President Obama now, for the first time, openly raising the possibility that a terrorist bomb brought the Russian airbus down.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I think there is a possibility that there was a bomb on board. And we're taking that very seriously. We are going to spend a lot of time just making sure that our own investigators, our own intelligence community figures out exactly what is going on before we make any definitive pronouncements. But it is certainly possible that there was a bomb on board.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: That was President Obama talking to CBS radio affiliate KIRO in Seattle as new video emerges from a Russian media outlet of the immediate aftermath in Egypt's Sinai desert. British Prime Minister David Cameron going one step further calling it a strong possibility that a bomb did this more likely than not in his words.
American and British intelligence telling us that the signs point to ISIS involvement. However, and maybe this is self-evident, but it really cannot be overstated, possibly or a possibility is not the same as a certainty. Indications are not evidence in the hard evidence so far remains fragmentary beyond the public eye. We will, of course, be keeping all that in mind as we bring you the latest from the experts and our correspondents around the globe.
First tonight, CNN justice correspondent Pamela Brown covering the investigation joins us with what her sources are saying.
What are you hearing, Pamela?
PAMELA BROWN, CNN JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: Well, Anderson, we are learning that message traffic involved any ISIS affiliate in the Sinai Peninsula was an initial indicator the crash could be a terrorist attack. This was message traffic that was electronic and the terrorists were apparently boasting about the bombing of the airliner. Sources say this occurred after the attack and at this point, the intelligence community didn't have anything before the attack indicating this was a threat.
But I want to point this out, that officials are warning this intelligence is inconclusive. The chatter is not definitive evidence. At times, they will attempt to throw off intelligence agencies or trey to gain favor with others in the terrorist group though officials tell my colleague Barbara Starr this did not appear to be false bragging, but rather discussion of the crash that had to be taken seriously so it caused concern but no conclusions yet, Anderson.
COOPER: There was video released over the weekend that we haven't authenticated so we are not showing it here. But ISIS claims it shows footage of the Russian plane falling from the sky. What are your sources telling about that?
BROWN: That's right. So this is was footage reportedly shot by ISIS in Sinai showing a plane exploding from below from two angles. Now, this was initially posted online over the weekend and then taken down shortly after. It has made the rounds and intelligence services around the world, Anderson. Initially the video was dismissed by the U.S. intelligence community. I'm still being told by some sources that's the case but within other factions of the U.S. intelligence committee, they are going back to take a second look to scrutinize it.
There are reasons why they are skeptical, though. It would have been very difficult to have known the exact geographical point the bomb was going to go off, let alone film a plane that is 30,000 feet in the air, Anderson.
COOPER: Yes, that's good point. Pamela, thank you.
Let's go now to our Ben Wedeman who spent more time and done more reporting in Egypt than anyone else or anyone I know, certainly.
Ben, I understand that the Egyptians continue to push back in the idea it may have been a bomb that brought down the plane.
BEN WEDEMAN, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: That is still the case, Anderson. Egyptian officials are insisting that no one should jump to any conclusions until their investigation into this bombing or this event is complete. And we heard Egyptian officials say that it could take months before that investigation comes out with even preliminary results.
Now Egyptian officials clearly are concerned about the impact that this news is having on tourism. Tourism, of course, a mainstay of the Egyptian economy and probably already this event is having a huge impact on what Egyptians were hoping would be a good year for tourism - Anderson.
COOPER: Ben, the Egyptian civil aviation administration said today that the U.S. and U.K. haven't been sharing information with Egyptians. That's what he said, right? WEDEMAN: Not only him but also some (INAUDIBLE) who is the foreign
minister told CNN after he had a phone conversation with U.S. secretary of state John Kerry that until now, no intelligence has been shared with the Egyptian investigators into this event. So they are sort of holding up their hands and saying OK, show us the proof. They say they just haven't gotten that yet, and this I think compounds their frustration.
[20:05:00] COOPER: There is a sense - I mean, or is there a sense of why the Egyptians would be out of step with the Americans and British on this?
WEDEMAN: Well, for one thing certainly since the summer of 2013 when that movement brought Abdul Fattah el-Sisi to power, the relationship between Washington and Cairo has been rather prickly or stormy perhaps and that's perhaps one reason. But I can tell you, I was here in October, November 1999 after the downing of Egypt air flight 990 after taking off from JFK and back then there was a lot of tension between the Egyptian and American investigators into the cause of that crash. And when the NTSB came out with their final report on that crash, which of course was caused according to the NTSB by the co-pilot of that plane bringing the plane down, crashing it into the sea, the Egyptians simply rejected the findings of the NTSB. So I think this lack of trust perhaps between Egyptian and American officials goes back many, many years.
COOPER: Yes. Nothing new there. Ben Wedeman, thank you very much.
We will be focusing closer in a moment on the real state of security in Sharm el-Sheikh, talking to someone who ran one of the most challenging terror prevention operations on the planet, a Tel Aviv's (INAUDIBLE) international airport.
But first, more on what to make of the intelligence picture tonight. Joining us is security consultant and former FBI supervisory special agent Ali Soufan, also CNN national security analyst Juliette Kayyem, former federal assistant homeland security secretary and a former top homeland security official for the commonwealth of Massachusetts.
Ali, I mean, it certainly sounds like President Obama is not as far out in front of this as David Cameron was. What do you make of his comments?
ALI SOUFAN, FORMER FBI SUPERVISORY SPECIAL AGENT: Well, I think, you know, we have to be very careful. There is a possibility according to the intelligence case that it probably a bomb. And I think the president have to be very careful in especially supporting our allies in the United Kingdom.
I mean, Cameron has a totally different situation on the ground, you know. He has about 20,000 British tourists. He has airlines that go there. But I think we have to keep in mind that this is an intelligence case, you know. That does not mean that there was a bomb. That does not mean that ISIS is behind it.
However, unfortunately, because of these leaks, because of these statements, it doesn't matter now if there was a bomb or no bomb. It doesn't matter if ISIS was behind it or not.
COOPER: Because they now gotten credit for it.
SOUFAN: Absolutely. The narrative has been set. And even if you have a credible investigation later on that said you know what? We don't believe it's a bomb. A lot of people who ISIS trying to reach out for, they already believe it's a bomb. And they won't believe the result of a credible investigation. So kind of like the genie is out of the bottle.
COOPER: And so in that world, ISIS has done something which Al-Qaeda central has not been able to do since 9/11.
SOUFAN: Absolutely. I mean, you're talking about, you know, a threat to the aviation security about 14 years after 9/11 and they were able to down the plane with 224 passenger on it.
COOPER: Juliette, I mean, the so-called chatter that had previously led the U.S. suggest to bomb likely brought down the plane, how reliable is that sort of intelligence?
JULIETTE KAYYEM, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY ANALYST: Well, I don't want to say I'm skeptical. I would agree with the president, of course, it's a possibility. But we don't know yet and we -- there are consequences to rushing to judgment. For the most part because Russia, the U.K. and U.S. are all involved. Those are major nations with troops in the area. So we just want to get it right. And the chatter that we're hearing about came after the bombing or after the airplane went down. And it is likely, I think, that David Cameron probably disclosed more than he wanted to in terms of his certainty. He does not want to disclose what we know or what we're doing to capture the intelligence. And as you've seen over the last 24 hours, sort of walking back that certainty.
So like everyone else, of course it's a possibility but there are consequences to rushing at the stage that have more to do with -- sorry, more to do with reality than politics or administration trying to hide the ball. There are consequences for the narrative that's being written right now and we should just all take a deep breath and let the investigation go forward because if it was a bomb, it is a game changer.
COOPER: And I mean, Ali, how significant do you think it is that this chatter was post the plane going down?
SOUFAN: See, I'm kind of -- I don't believe much in chatter. I mean, this is raw material. This is raw intelligence. You have to take it and you have to analyze and you have to see, OK, who is the person who is talking? Does it match the reality on the ground? Does it match the evidence that we are finding? So it's -- you cannot just take chatter and build a case upon that. You cannot build even an intelligence case upon one or two communication, you know, terrorists we know for example, they always brag about doing something that they don't do. They always brag about doing something that they did not do. So we have to be very careful of what they talk about and what they
say. That's why I believe that we need to take our time in order to wait and see if there is any forensic evidence that support the claims of ISIS and its affiliate in Sinai.
KAYYEM: I will say one thing, Anderson, just picking up from what Ali said, it is a game changer. And one of the shocking things or surprising things in the last couple of days is the extension which Great Britain got out there closes flights and then abandons its citizens. If there is anything to learn here, I have been surprised that the British have not had a back-up plan and they have nationals in a country that they worried about just stranded there. And so, we are starting to hear that they are going to now pick them up. But if we are going to learn a lot out of this, that's certainly another lesson.
[20:11:00] COOPER: Juliette Kayyem, thank you for being with us. Ali Soufan as well. Thank you.
SOUFAN: Thank you.
KAYYEM: Thank you.
COOPER: Well, when we come back tonight, we will explore the question that this latest attack raises. Can you make air travel secure? A leading global expert called in after that 9/11 attacks to fix problems at Boston's Logan airport joins us and we will see what is being done on the ground itself in Egypt.
There is also more breaking news tonight, the sad and twisted story that disgraced police officer lieutenant Joe Gliniewicz taking yet another shocking turn. Tonight, you will hear from the town official who learned that he was actually trying to have her killed.
[20:14:47] COOPER: The breaking news that American authorities may alter security measures in U.S. airports in the wake of Metro Jet 9268 comes with the global spotlight on the airport at Sharm el-Sheikh. That's where the doomed airliner originated.
Now, remember, officials in Cairo initially downplayed concerns saying no changes will be made because none were necessary. Tonight, the question is what, if anything, has actually changed at that airport since then?
More on that now from CNN's Ian Lee.
[20:15:13] IAN LEE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: There is a noticeable increase in security here at Sharm el-Sheikh airport. Even before you get into the terminal, there is a check point where they go through your luggage. There is a bomb sniffing dog as well. Then you come into here. And this is one of the many layers of security where they scan your luggage. You go through a metal detector and you see this man is being scrutinized here. They will probably pat him down as we saw just about an hour ago there were hundreds of people here going through this very process. I asked them how they felt flying out of here almost everyone said that they felt safe.
Now, we know U.K. and Egyptian officials have been working on security here at the airport. We are told that the atmosphere is one of cooperation between the two trying to make it safe so the British planes can resume flights back at the U.K.
COOPER: Ian Lee joins us now.
I mean, Ian, there is, you know, what security is like for people who are actually boarding flights but it seems like if this was a bomb, there's a lot of theories that it came in basically through the backdoor, through some of the works at the airport who had direct access to the plane. Do we know what security has any security change for the personnel who work the aircraft?
LEE: Well, Anderson, the Egyptian government still goes with believing that this was a mechanical issue, but if there was someone who did plant that bomb on the airplane, the Egyptian authorities will be trying to find that person. They have had issues with police officers and as well as soldiers they accuse of helping terrorist organizations. They have been arrested since the 2011 revolution.
But the real question here in Egypt for them is going to be how to make sure something like this doesn't have and they do have background checks but you do have a very large security apparatus here so it would be hard to check everyone and to make sure everyone is going to be legitimate.
But when you look at security, also, there are questions of capabilities. Are they well trained enough to detect these sort of things? Do they know what they are looking for? And this is one of the concerns that the British government had when they came here to see what the situation was to resume those flights.
COOPER: Ian, appreciate the reporting tonight.
I want to get to CNN aviation correspondent Richard Quest. He joins us. So does Rafi Ron. He is the former director of security at Tel Aviv's Ben Gurion international airport. And if you've ever flown in and out of there, you know that no one does airport security like they do airport security.
I want to start with Richard. I mean, really doesn't matter if you have a check in before you drive into the airport, if you have people looking at your passport three or four times, if you have people walking around with machine guns if the backdoor is open and those who have access to the plane who are cleaning it or fixing it or catering it aren't even being screened and the reporting as of last night was that the Egyptian authorities hadn't even interviewed the people that work at the airport. RICHARD QUEST, CNN AVIATION CORRESPONDENT: We have well gone beyond
Alice in wonderland the way this is being handled. And not only do you have the Egyptians saying it's not a bomb, but now they seem to be saying well, just in case it is a bomb, we are going to increase security anyway.
COOPER: Right, the front door.
QUEST: At the front door, not at the backdoor. And what, of course, this is, is a direct reaction to the pressure that is being put to bear by particularly the British who have already sent in experts to tighten up procedures. My understanding is that when the British tourists are going to be evacuated in Sharm tomorrow, their luggage isn't even going to be on their aircraft. They are flying the luggage home separately on military planes. And the planes that they will be using use will have the whole sealed and guards armed guards around them.
Now, why - I mean, until we know first of all whether it was a bomb, and secondly, where what was the avenue by which it got on the aircraft, all this other stuff at the front is just window dressing.
COOPER: Rafi, I mean, how secure are planes when they are at an airport, whey they are having maintenance done or getting fueled or having the baggage loaded on? I mean, there are people, are there safeguards throughout that process to make sure nothing nefarious happens? Because even in the United States, you know, we have the case out of the Atlanta airport of baggage handlers putting weapons and transporting weapons on aircraft.
RAFI RON, FORMER DIRECTOR OF SECURITY, TEL AVIV'S BEN GURION AIRPORT: Yes, this is correct. I think that one of the problems with the strategy that we have been implementing since 9/11 is that over 90 percent of our attention is directed at the passenger and his bags, his or her bags. And to a large extent, we have been paying much less attention to issues of facility security. We had embarrassing incidents like stow away 16-year-old boy who lost his life.
[20:20:10] COOPER: We had a freeze there on the Internet. On the connection, on the Skype connection.
But I mean, it's ludicrous. I mean, it's incredible to me that 14 years after 9/11, here we are still discussing --
QUEST: I'm going to argue both ways. And the other side of course is you can never have 100 percent total security. We all pretty much accept that. So you are constantly looking for the weak points, the weakling. And what they have to discover here is was this something systemic that it could have happen at any airport or was this something unique to Sharm that it could only happen there because of lax procedures.
COOPER: Right. But if it is true that they are not interviewing the people who work at the airport that seems to be - I mean, is it --?
QUEST: We don't know. COOPER: Isn't the clock ticking?
QUEST: We don't know. And we don't know because, frankly, the Egyptians haven't had any press conferences. They had interviews but there has been nothing like the regular daily press conferences that we would have expected.
COOPER: Transparency is not something they are used to.
QUEST: Well, we complained about Malaysia but at least they had press conferences. The NTSB, the BEA, you do get these things. There is no measure of a correct decimation of information of where this stands. And into that vacuum, you've got the Brits and the Americans screaming bombs. You've got the Russians and Egyptians saying no it's not.
COOPER: Richard, it is good to have you on. We want to apologize for the Internet difficulties with Rafi Ron's connection.
Up next, what we know about the ISIS affiliate that claimed responsibility, again, if right now just a claim of responsibility for downing the plane and how they may pose a danger to hundreds of U.S. peace keeping troops in Sinai.
There is also more breaking news tonight. New details exposed about the alleged crooked cop who killed himself say authorities. Why investigators say he tried to hire a hit man. I will speak with the woman who they say he wanted to kill when we continue.
[20:26:06] COOPER: More now on the breaking news, the TSA considering security changes at American airport, that and President Obama for the first time publicly saying that it is possible a bomb brought down Metro Jet 9268. An ISIS affiliate, as you know, has claimed responsibility however as you've heard not everyone is convinced. On the other hand, there is no disputing this. The group is on the rise in Sinai and could be a threat to hundreds of American troops there.
Brian Todd reports.
BRIAN TODD, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): They brought down an Egyptian helicopter with a shoulder fired missile. They claimed they hit this Egyptian warship. And right near their stronghold in north Sinai is where these U.S. troops are stationed. In early September four American soldiers from that base were wounded in an IED attack believed to be carried out by ISIS' lethal affiliate in Sinai, an attack which prompted the United States to send reinforcements to boost security.
When you heard that attack, what was going through your mind?
COMMAND SGT. MAJ. RICH GREENE (RET.), FORMER U.S. TASK FORCE SINAI SOLDIER: It was like I was right back there. I could remember the base where I was, how I lived and all that and there is concern for the people that are there.
TODD: In 2011 and 2012, Rich Greene was an army sergeant major deployed with task force Sinai, a contingent of about 700 American troops on that peninsula. Their mission along with others in a multinational force to observe and report what Israeli and Egyptian forces are doing and sometimes report militant activities. But these American troops are peacekeepers. They are lightly armed.
LT. GEN. MARK HERTLING, CNN MILITARY ANALYST: They are out gunned by the terrorist right now and it's a dangerous mission.
TODD: Rich Greene says the American's heaviest weapons when he was there, machine guns mounted on tripods.
GREENE: The infantry units that are there have squad weapons, but not anything that would take on a large, you know, coordinated attack.
TODD: And that's exactly what they may be up against. The ISIS affiliate in Sinai which U.S. officials siting intelligence say may have been along ISIS groups which could have planted a bomb on the Russian passenger plane is a terror cell growing in capability known as Wiliat (ph) Sinai. They pledged allegiance to ISIS last year.
A U.S. counterterrorism official tells CNN they are one of ISIS' most active and potent affiliates, adapting the ISIS' branding and brutal tactics. Analysts say they killed an American oil worker, beheaded a Croatia man, claimed to have killed hundreds of Egyptian soldiers and assassinated top security officials. American troops are priced target.
Will those U.S. troops get more manpower and weapons? The "Associated Press" reported in August that the Obama administration was considering whether to bolster the American force or withdraw it completely from Sinai? U.S. officials we spoke won't comment on that. But one defense official said they are always adapting force protection measures to deal with threats.
Brian Todd, CNN, Washington.
COOPER: A lot to discuss. Joining us tonight, retired Admiral William McRaven, former commander of U.S. Special Forces. He is now chancellor at the University of Texas school system.
Admiral, if in fact, there was a bomb on board this aircraft and if in fact it was ISIS or an ISIS affiliated group, how much of a game changer is this?
ADM. BILL MCRAVEN (RET.), FORMER COMMANDER OF U.S. SPECIAL FORCE: Well, one, I think it remains to be determined whether or not it was ISIS. But if it was, I'm not sure it's much of a game changer. The fact of the matter is we need to have a strategy to go against ISIS irrespective of whether or not this was an ISIS attack or not. And I think the president as I have seen reports is beginning to develop a strategy. He has put 50 special operations forces on the ground in sir Syria and I think that's a good first step. But clearly, we need to take a look at the broader approach to going after ISIS.
COOPER: In terms of really battling ISIS and really trying to defeat them and obviously other groups, you think it's going to take more than just an increase in special operations forces in the short term. I mean, you've talked about a generational conflict here.
MCRAVEN: Yeah, I do believe it's a generational conflict. And I think the hard part is for the American people to recognize we're in a war. We're in a serious war, and we may not like it. We may not hope that we have to fight it, but the fact of the matter is wishing it away will not make it any easier and so we've got to come up with a strategy to aggressively go after ISIS.
COOPER: There are a lot of people who certainly want to just move away from Iraq, move away from Afghanistan and get all U.S. Forces out. What can, you know, 10,000 or however many U.S. Forces on the ground in Iraq do that we couldn't do years ago with the Iraqi forces?
MCRAVEN: Well, I think we did do it years ago with Iraqi forces, Anderson. If you take a look at where we were when we left Iraq, the Iraqi Army was in a pretty good place. Now, admittedly, I would like to have seen us stay there longer, but I understand the president's decision to move us out. But the Iraqi army was in a pretty good position when we left. They were reasonably well trained. They were certainly not as integrated as we would have liked to have seen and I think we saw the result of that lack of integration when ISIS crossed the border and began to engage them. But the fact of the matter is, the steps that we're taking now in Iraq, approximately 3500 folks who we have on the ground, this is a great first step. But I think what we've got to be able to do is look at this in a broader context. We have to understand that this fight against ISIS is not something we can do on the margins, but I do think this is a generational fight and I think it's going to require, unfortunately, the lives of more young men and women and billions more dollars in order for us to be able to destroy the threat. But if we don't do it now, we're going to have to do it later. So, it's just a matter of timing.
COOPER: This is probably a stupid question, a stupid way of looking at it, but why does it seems that the forces that the United States supports in Iraq and in Afghanistan need billions of dollars and constant training, whereas the forces we raid against seem to not? I mean, they have foreign fighters. They don't necessarily have extensive training. They seem quite capable in ways that these well- trained forces or once well-trained forces aren't.
MCRAVEN: Yeah, because they have no rules. Because one, they have very little structure so you are fighting this kind of amorphous group in ISIS. I mean they have obviously, they have leadership and they have some structure, but when you're kind of an unconventional force like ISIS is, it's much harder to defeat. They live amongst the people day in and day out, so the issues of drone strikes and going after the leadership, it's hard to find the leadership when during the day they look like the average potentially innocent Syrians that are out there.
So it's just a much, much tougher fight to go against an unconventional enemy that really has no rules, no rules of engagement, they don't respond to the law of armed conflict, they don't respond to international conventions. So in some ways it kind of ties our hands, makes it harder to go after them.
COOPER: Admiral, I appreciate you taking the time to talk to us. Thank you.
MCRAVEN: My pleasure, Anderson, thank you.
COOPER: Just ahead, we have breaking news here at home. Disturbing new details about a police officer once hailed as a hero, but now being slammed as crooked. See how far investigators say he was willing to go to cover up his alleged crimes before he took his own life.
Plus, Marco Rubio says the claims that he misused a Republican Party credit card have been debunked and he's been cleared of any wrongdoing. The question is, what about those two years of missing records? What does it show - what he charged? We're keeping him honest ahead.
COOPER: About this time last night we were telling you about a jaw dropping twist in the case of an Illinois police officer. It turned out Lieutenant Joe Gliniewicz was not murdered, after all. Investigators said he killed himself after staging a crime scene to make it look like he was attacked. Authorities say he was stealing from a police mentoring program he was involved with, and was about to be exposed.
Well, now there is even more breaking news on the story tonight. Two family members of Gliniewicz are being investigated and there are also new details about just how far the officer was prepared to go to cover up his alleged crimes before he killed himself. Rosa Flores joins me with the latest.
So, the new details that Gliniewicz allegedly tried to have a hit, put on the Fox village the city manager who was looking to a program he was heading up. What's the latest on that?
ROSA FLORES, CNN CORRESPONDENT: You know, Anderson, they are disturbing details and then zero in on two specific things that we've learned tonight. First of all, the allegations of planting of evidence on this village administrator and also on hits against her life. Village administrators confirming to CNN tonight that they learned about those threats after Lieutenant Gliniewicz died at that point in time, police officers providing security for her and her family to secure her and her family.
Now, about the possible allegations of planting of evidence, CNN sources do confirm that Lieutenant Gliniewicz had cocaine in his desk. Now, this cocaine was obtained after his death. Now, late tonight, during a press conference, the press asking village administrators if that cocaine was indeed there to plant on the village administrator. Their answer was no. But again, Anderson, disturbing details here.
They are also expanding the investigation now to the family of this officer, is that right?
FLORES: Sources confirming to CNN tonight, Anderson, that indeed the widow of Lieutenant Gliniewicz and his son are being investigated for possible relations to the embezzlement. Thousands of money that were uncovered yesterday. Now, CNN sources telling CNN that this widow and her son were heavily involved. Again, all of this still under investigation, but I got to mention this because remember those deleted text messages that were released by authorities yesterday?
CNN sources telling us that the individuals in these messages that were exchanging these messages with Lieutenant Gliniewicz were individual number one who was the widow and individual number two who was the son. Investigators reminding everyone yesterday that when you delete a message, that doesn't mean that that message is completely gone.
COOPER: Rosa Flores, thanks very much. Also, what makes that so fascinating is that his widow and son were actually very out in front of the cameras defending Officer Gliniewicz saying there is no way he would have committed suicide. So it's interesting to hear that now they are the focus for investigation. The last 48 hours have obviously been wrenching for the entire community of Fox Lake, but it's fair to say that the village administrator Anne Marrin has gotten the biggest shock of all recently learning from investigators that lieutenant wanted to kill her. She joins me tonight for an exclusive interview.
Ann, when I first heard about this I was trying to imagine what went through your mind when you learned that Officer Gliniewicz was trying to take a hit out on you?
ANNE MARRIN, FOX LAKE VILLAGE ADMINISTRATOR: I was stunned, absolutely stunned. It is definitely not a good feeling and it's very scary in the same sense, as well. It's almost surreal.
COOPER: I mean, he not only sent texts about taking a hit out on you. He also sent others a text saying that you hated him even though he never had more than three sentences with you or exchanged three sentences with you. Did it surprise you to hear that? I mean did you have any idea that he thought you hated him?
MARRIN: Absolutely not, and it did surprise me, because as he said, we had very little conversation and the ones we did were mostly about the explorer programs, doing special events and things such as that. So it was very minimal and always very pleasant. There weren't any bad words exchanged.
COOPER: So you were brought in to review all the departments in Fox Lake and did you notice red flags right away with the explorer program? MARRIN: As I started to focus on it, yes, I did notice red flags.
Several of them would be things when I would ask questions of how does this work or who takes care of this? Who takes care of the money? How is this paid for? There were a lot of questions that nobody seemed to know the answers to, which kind of made me wonder what was really going on there.
COOPER: So, then you reached out to him to get an inventory to the program. How did he initially respond to that?
MARRIN: I asked him if he had an inventory of everything that was in that building, he said yes, ma'am and I said can you get it to me by 2:00 today? He said yes, ma'am. And that really was the end of the conversation.
COOPER: And how soon was that before he -- before he died?
MARRIN: That was the day before. The next day that Tuesday morning I received an e-mail from him at about 6:54 a.m. saying I'll have that inventory to you by noon or 1:00 today and then the incident happened.
COOPER: And when you initially heard about the incident, you heard, you know, and everyone thought this officer was killed in the line of duty, were you suspicious at all?
MARRIN: Well, I thought it was strange as far as the timing of the e- mail, where he was because that's not -- it's kind of a remote area, however, you know, we got into first response mode where we were, you know, locking down buildings. We were calling in other agencies. It got to be quite a crazy, hectic day.
COOPER: Are you concerned for your safety at all still?
MARRIN: I've been assured not only by the task force, our police department and other agencies out there that I am fine. My biggest fear was for my family and not being able to say a lot of things to them but being scared. It puts a small sense of fear in you of things going on around you. You're just more open and more watchful of the world around you.
COOPER: I just can't imagine what it's like to be doing the job you do and find yourself in this bizarre situation. And as you said, it's surreal. Ann, thank you so much for talking to us.
MARRIN: Thank you.
COOPER: We still have more breaking news tonight, late word on which Republicans will not be in the next prime time debate and who even failed to make the stage at all. Also, Marco Rubio says the attacks on his use of the Republican Party credit card are old news and have been debunked. Keeping him honest, Drew Griffin has been digging and talking to people who knew him when the allegations first began to surface years ago.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DREW GRIFFIN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: So - Republicans were rolling in dough, and you are saying, Marco Rubio thought I have carp launch.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Well, he didn't have carp launch, he had an American express card.
COOPER: There is breaking news on the campaign trail. Fox Business News has released the lineup for the next week's Republican debate in Milwaukee. There are some big changes. Just eight candidates qualified for the prime time debate. As you can see, Chris Christie and Mike Huckabee are not among them. They got bunked down to the undercard debate, where they will face off with Bobby Jindal and Rick Santorum. George Pataki and Senator Lindsey Graham will not be debating at all.
Out on the campaign trail, Senator Marco Rubio's personal finances have become something of a punching bag, with several of his opponents including Donald Trump attacking his financial history, specifically his alleged misuse of Republican Party credit card. Senator Rubio has been dismissing the attacks has much to do about nothing. Now, here is what he said on "Good Morning, America."
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. MARCO RUBIO (R) FLORIDA: It wasn't a credit card. It was an American Express charge card secured under my personal credit in conjunction with the party. I would go through the bills, would be mailed to me at home. Every month I would go through it. If there was a personal expense I paid it, if it was a party expense, the party paid it. Now, I recognize in the hindsight, I would do it different to avoid all this confusion, but the Republican Party never paid a single expense of mine, personal expense.
(End video clip)
COOPER: We are keeping him honest. The allegations that Senator Rubio misused that credit card, they have been following him for years and have never been completely put to rest. Here is CNN investigative correspondent Drew Griffin with more.
DREW GRIFFIN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: For some of the people who know Marco Rubio like his former unpaid - Republican consultant Chris Ingraham, the candidate's explanations are doing very little to clear up the controversy.
CHRIS INGRAHAM, STRATEGIST: And to me having known him and seeing him in action and seeing the pattern of behavior of his, the sense of entitlement of explaining things away without taking any kind of actual accountability of responsibility for what he's done, blaming others and there is always an excuse.
[20:50:03] UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Marco Rubio.
GRIFFIN: Questions of Marco Rubio's spending on a Republican Party charge card first surfaced in his U.S. Senate campaign in 2010 when the "Tampa Bay Times and "Miami Herald" were leaked these, two years of records from when Marco Rubio was a powerful state lawmaker in Tallahassee. The records show lots of personal spending that include movie tickets, charges to a wine store, a family vacation and even $1,000 for damage to his minivan and thousands more for a rental car to replace it. Some of it personal spending that was against the state Republican Party's rules. Rubio has explained them all away. Wine store actually sold sandwiches, the minivan damaged at a Republican Party event. For other questionable charges, a mistake in use of the wrong credit card in his wallet. For which he would eventually reimburse the state Republican Party.
In fact, after the records became public, Rubio paid back more than $16,000 in charges he had placed on the card. It was all part of a major scandal in the Florida Republican Party at the time that sent the party chairman to prison, but Rubio was never charged. Mike Fasano, a former Republican majority leader in Florida who worked with Marco Rubio in state politics and at one time was considered Rubio's mentor says it was a bad time for the Florida Republican Party.
MIKE FASANO, (R) PASCO COUNTY TAX COLLECTOR: I was a senator at the time and when he was the majority leader in incoming speaker and then, of course, speaker of the house, you start hearing, learning and then start reading about how he was abusing the American Express card that was given to him by the Republican Party of Florida.
GRIFFIN: After leaving state politics for a job as a county tax collector, Fasano no longer talks with Marco Rubio. He doesn't support him either. He has given some money to the Jeb Bush campaign, but says his questions about Marco Rubio are not based on a current political campaign. They have concerned him for years.
FASANO: It became very, very disturbing to me of how he was using other people's money. The example he was setting was just spend it as freely as you want and we'll just go out and raise more.
GRIFFIN: Why wasn't the Republican Party in the state of Florida at that time a better steward of their donated dollars?
FASANO: The culture changed when all of a sudden when you become the majority party and you have access to literally not just hundreds of thousands, but millions of dollars available to you and you can spend them and go out and just raise more dollars from those same donors.
GRIFFIN: So, Florida Republicans were rolling in dough and you are saying, Marco Rubio thought I have carp launch.
FASANO: Well, he didn't have carp launch, he had an American Express card.
GRIFFIN: But he thought this money is endless?
FASANO: Absolutely. And I believe that.
GRIFFIN (voice over): Rubio's campaign insists, this is all just rehashing of old news, that everything has been explained and even pointed us to this Republican paid audit that cleared Rubio of any wrongdoing, but there is still a lot we don't know. Two years of information on Marco Rubio's American Express charges to be exact and why haven't those records been released? That so far is unclear. He told CNN's Dana Bash he's working on it.
RUBIO: I don't know the exact date. But - these are old documents, so take time to assemble. And I have no problem releasing it. Because we have nothing to withhold here.
GRIFFIN: But Rubio has been withholding them, at least since 2010 when the same issue came up in that U.S. Senate race. Former consultant Chris Ingraham says Rubio could immediately resolve the issue by just releasing the records.
INGRAHAM: Well, I think that number one, Marco could certainly come up with them. He's admitted and acknowledged to me that he has the records, the American Express statements for the period of two years.
GRIFFIN: Ingraham shared this e-mail exchange with CNN that he had with Rubio in 2009 in which Rubio was trying to explain personal charges on his Republican Party card. It is virtually the same explanation Rubio still gives today. "Any personal charges were paid by me directly and it's not a Republican Party of Florida card. It is my card opened under the corporate division of Amex using my personal credit." Ingram says if he were advising Rubio today, he would tell him the same thing he says he told them back then, release the records and end the controversy, but Chris Ingram flatly says telling the actual truth is just not the Marco Rubio he knows.
INGRAM: I think that maybe he doesn't see the real truth as being important and I think that he sees that his indiscretions are not really a problem.
COOPER: Andrew joins us now. So, why hasn't the senator released the records? Has he ever given a reason?
GRIFFIN: Well, when first asked back in 2010, Anderson, he said he wasn't going to release them. He said they were private property of himself and the Republican Party.
He wasn't required to release them. He's changed his tune. Now he's under fire by national press, under pressure to release them so now he says he will release them as soon as he can get those records together.
COOPER: But so far, he's yet to release any of the records voluntarily at this point.
GRIFFIN: Correct. Those two years of records that we cited, they came from a leak and so far no other records have surfaced publicly.
COOPER: All right, Drew Griffin, Drew, thanks very much. We'll be right back.
COOPER: Before we go, quick update on changes that could be coming to an airport near you. Fallout from the MetroJet crash. TSA officials reportedly weighing security changes at airports in the United States. Now, we could learn shortly what this would entail. Meantime, President Obama today said that it was a possibility a bomb brought the Russian airbus down with the loss of 224 lives. We'll continue to monitor developments, of course.
That does it for us at this hour. We'll see you again at 11:00 p.m. Eastern. Another edition of "360", Anthony Bourdain, "Parts Unknown" starts now.