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U.S. Intel Suggests ISIS Bomb Downed Jet; Two New Books Slam Vatican Finances; Carson's Violent Past Investigated. Aired 10:30-11a ET

Aired November 05, 2015 - 10:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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[10:29:50] CAROL COSTELLO, CNN ANCHOR: And good morning. I'm Carol Costello. Thank you so much for joining me.

France is ramping up the fight against ISIS in Syria and Iraq and deploying the aircraft carrier Charles de Gaulle. Here's part of the statement from the French government that we got in just a few minutes ago. Quote, "The defense council examined the state of terrorist threat targeting our country and the establishment of measures necessary to protect our citizens."

In the meantime a stunning twist raises new questions about a Russian plane crash in the Sinai. A U.S. official telling CNN intelligence suggests a bomb planted by ISIS or one of its affiliates may have been on board that plane. Even worse, there's a possibility that it was an inside job at the airport.

Let's bring in CNN Pentagon correspondent, Barbara Starr. Good morning -- Barbara.

BARBARA STARR, CNN PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT: Good morning -- Carol.

The British Prime Minister David Cameron said a short time ago nothing was conclusive but that the evidence was pointing to the fact it was more likely than not it was a bomb that brought down this plane. When the British Prime Minister says that, the world pays attention.

Now, what is the evidence? We don't know for certain. We don't know for certain that it was a bomb. But sources across the border telling CNN that some chatter was picked up by intelligence services indicating that ISSI or an ISIS affiliate might have been behind all of this.

Sources telling our own Pamela Brown the chatter was picked up after the fact and there was some discussion of a bomb-making capability. So, this is now a good deal of what is being looked at.

One of the problems here, however, is that U.S. officials will tell you, if the Russians do not turn over at some point physical evidence in the wreckage, they may never know for certain what actually happened to the plane. Everybody needs to see some of the actual, forensic, physical evidence very early on. That investigation is going to go on for some time. The Russian government, the Egyptian government saying they have no evidence at this point that it was a bomb. So I think you're seeing a lot of very sensitive maneuvering here.

The British very far into the public arena, talking about their concerns, the U.S. not talking about it publicly but making it clear behind the scenes they have plenty of worries about this and it really for them focuses on, is there an ISIS affiliate in Sinai? Are there ISIS operatives there maybe affiliated with groups in the region -- Hamas, Hezbollah, other groups that may have had the bomb-making capability to do this -- Carol.

COSTELLO: All right. Barbara Starr reporting live from the Pentagon.

Joining me now to talk about this some more, Egyptian journalist and author of "Sinai: Egypt's Linchpin, Gaza's Lifeline, Israel's Nightmare" Mohannad Sabry. Welcome sir.

MOHANNAD SABRY, EGYPTIAN JOURNALIST: Thank you. Thank you -- Carol.

COSTELLO: Egypt says there's just not enough evidence to prove that it was a bomb that brought that plane down. Do you believe the Egyptian government?

SABRY: I believe that the Egyptian government is right about what it says. The investigation, as Barbara just said, will take some time. Now, the concerning matter is that the Egyptian regime is not giving enough details and enough information to satisfy the world's concerns and to absorb those concerns.

It's also complaining about different governments taking precautionary measurements such as the British government suspended airlines and flights to Sharm el Sheikh which is a precautionary measurement. And the fact that Egypt is persistent in its denial of any terrorist attack theory, I don't think it's the right thing to be done now.

COSTELLO: Is there -- are there ISIS terrorists in the Sinai?

SABRY: Oh, yes, there are. They have been operating in the Sinai since 2011. They have proven their highly sophisticated capabilities of building bombs. And just yesterday morning there was a suicide attack using an explosive vehicle on one of the police compounds in El-Arish, which is supposed to be the most secure city in north Sinai.

And this has been the last one of many, many attacks using sophisticated explosives. There have been a few dozen attacks using IEDs, sophisticated and unsophisticated explosive devices. And this theory, despite how terrifying it is, it is not impossible.

COSTELLO: If it was a bomb to blame, what might that mean in the fight against ISIS? Would it force the international community to change strategy?

SABRY: Well, the fight against ISIS has been taken -- has been succeeding very minimally and very slowly over the past few years in Egypt. And we are seeing the results on the ground as this suicide attack that happened yesterday that I just mentioned is the latest in many attacks -- many infiltrations of the security system in Egypt. And this continues. Now, the war on terror takes years and takes a lot of different policies and revising those policies.

[10:34:59] But apparently we are in a sensitive situation. There is still active terrorism on the ground, despite the continuous assurances by the Egyptian regime. And we have to understand that this will take a lot of time and a lot of effort, domestically and internationally.

COSTELLO: All right, Mohannad Sabry -- thanks for joining me this morning.

SABRY: Thank you very much.

COSTELLO: Still to come in the NEWSROOM -- you're welcome. Still to come in the NEWSROOM: scandal plaguing the Vatican again. What two new books are alleging -- next.

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[10:39:48] COSTELLO: Two bombshell books released today portray the Vatican as rife with financial scandals and extravagant spending. They're based on leaked internal documents that reveal sensational misuse and mismanagement of the Vatican finances.

One book titled "Avarizia" alleges the Vatican's real estate holdings total 2.7 billion euros more than seven times than what is declared in its financial reports.

The book "Merchants in the temple" alleges only 20 percent of Peter's Pence, the charitable contributions made to the church by Catholics around the world, are used to help the poor, with much of the remainder paying costs at the Holy See. The Vatican is now considering legal action against the authors.

This week ahead of the publication, two Vatican insiders were arrested -- both suspected of leaking the confidential documents to journalists.

CNN religion commentator and host of "THE SUNDAY MASS", Father Edward Beck joins me now. Welcome -- Father.

FATHER EDWARD BECK, CNN RELIGION COMMENTATOR: Hey -- Carol.

COSTELLO: So, what do you make of these books?

FATHER BECK: Well, hard to believe we have intrigue at the Vatican once again. It sounds like a Dan Brown novel, doesn't it?

However, we should note that there's nothing really new in these allegations in the sense that remember in 2003 Pope Francis had a study commission on finances in the Vatican because of some of these abuses. So, they were obvious then and he wanted to begin the reform.

So some of what we're hearing right now has been well known. Yes, it's more documented now in a book but they're hardly new revelations. And Pope Francis is about reforming the very things that you mentioned.

COSTELLO: Well, a couple things really shocked me like there's a revelation in one of the books where you actually can pay to become a saint. And I'm talking about a good chunk of money -- like half a million dollars.

FATHER BECK: No, you don't pay to become a saint. The canonization process by which the church has to do the investigation, all the administration, fly to the different regions where the saint lived, interview people. The administration costs of having a saint canonized can be very high. It's not like you're paying to become a saint. It's because the process is so costly.

COSTELLO: So you have to pay the expenses?

FATHER BECK: You have to pay the expenses for the canonization -- the church does and those who are involved in the canonization. It can be quite costly. And that is a critique. I think it's a valid critique. Do we really want to spend all this money just to say, yes, someone was holy and lived a virtuous? It's excessive and I think it's a good question to ask.

COSTELLO: The other disturbing thing is the Vatican ordered the arrests of the people who leaked these documents. That seems harsh.

FATHER BECK: Yes. Well, it is against Vatican law to leak documents that are part of a study commission that is internal. Now, of course, whether or not it's a good thing or bad thing remains to be seen. Remember, like the butler was arrested, too. He had taken documents from Pope Benedict's drawer without any permission. That seemed more egregious to me than simply leaking documents as part of the meeting.

But remember some of the concerns here are quite confounding I think when you look at it. One of the ones you mentioned about Peter's Pence. So, it sounds kind of shocking. Gee, only 20 percent or 30 percent of what we give actually goes to the poor? But most charitable organizations, Carol, will tell you that, unfortunately, a lot of what they bring in is administrative expense. It's spent on administration. How much actually gets to the people who need it?

Unfortunately, the Vatican is part of that administration and there's a lot of costs involved. Now, Pope Francis says, we've got to cut out some of those costs. That is not good. Again, that's part of the reform, but certainly the Vatican is not the only organization that pays administrative costs in order to help needy people.

COSTELLO: All right. I have to leave it there. Father Edward Beck, thanks so much.

FATHER BECK: Thank you -- Carol.

COSTELLO: Still to come in the NEWSROOM -- you're welcome.

Still to come in the NEWSROOM, a tale of two Carsons: the Presidential hopeful's story of transformation from angry young man to composed candidate -- very different than the one told by people who knew him.

But first, what do Blake Shelton, Keith Urban and Craig Morgan all have in common? They're all members of Nashville's Grand Ol' Opry. Our "Travel Insider" takes you on a backstage tour of this American icon.

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CRAIG MORGAN, COUNTRY SINGER: I'm country singer Craig Morgan and Nashville is my city. It's the capital of country music and we're taking you on a VIP back stage tour here at the Grand Ole Opry.

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MORGAN: First thing we do when we get in, is we have to check in and find out where our dressing room is. Where am I at tonight? As a member, you have a mailbox so the fans can send mail to us here.

Not everybody that plays at the Grand Ole Opry is a member of the Grand Ole Opry. To date, there are just over 200 members. This is the list of every member past and present.

[10:45:01] There's 19 dressing rooms. Well, actually there's only 18 because there's not a number 13.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Hello there.

MORGAN: You never know who you're going to run into.

What is your favorite thing about being here at the Opry?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Oh, Porter, Roy and standing in them big, tall shoes.

MORGAN: Look who we have here.

Mr. Ricky Skaggs.

MORGAN: This is the green room. During the flood of 2013, this is how high the water level got.

This is the infamous circle here at the Grand Ole Opry where the legends, as well as the new artists, stand to perform.

Thanks for spending time with me back stage at the Grand Ole Opry. Hope to see you in Nashville soon. It's time for me to hit the stage.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Let's welcome Mr. Craig Morgan.

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(COMMERCIAL BREAK) COSTELLO: Dr. Ben Carson is so mild-mannered and soft-spoken, you probably wouldn't think the candidate has admitted to having a temper and claims that he attempted to stab someone.

However CNN caught up with some old friends who remember Carson quite differently. CNN's Joe Johns has more for you. Hi -- Joe.

JOE JOHNS, CNN SENIOR WASHINGTON CORRESPONDENT: Hi -- Carol. A new Gallup poll suggests Ben Carson is the best liked of all the Presidential candidates from both parties. And this is in spite of the fact that he says he had a terrible temper growing up in Detroit.

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DR. BEN CARSON (R), PORESCAND: Candidates can come and --

JOHNS: Ben Carson's quiet, dignified approach is a big part of his appeal, but he says his calm demeanor was carved out of a violent past.

CARSON: As a teenager, I would go after people with rocks and bricks and baseball bats and hammers.

JOHNS: Carson wrote in his book about striking a school mate in the face with a combination lock, nearly punching his mother, smashing a kid's face with a rock. Carson said he also tried to kill a friend, identified as Bob in a disagreement over the radio. He describes his temper as pathological -- a disease that made him totally irrational.

CARSON: I had a large camping knife and I tried to stab him in the abdomen. And fortunately, under his clothing he had on a large metal belt buckle. And the knife blade struck with such force, that it broke.

JOHNS: It was, he says, a pivotal point in Carson's life, depicted in a TV movie.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Benny, what did you do?

JOHNS: But then an epiphany. Carson says he quelled his anger with prayer.

CARSON: I locked myself in the bathroom and started contemplating my life and realizing that I would never realize my dream of becoming a physician with a temper like that.

JOHNS: From that day forward, Carson says he was a changed man -- now on a course from poverty in Detroit to world famous neurosurgeon.

CARSON: I never had another angry outburst since that day.

JOHNS: But that early picture of violence is not recognizable to some who grew up with Carson.

MARIE CHOICE, FORMER NEIGHBOR OF CARSON: I was shocked. I was surprised. Because he was just -- you know, he was quiet and calm. JOHNS: CNN reporters Maeve Reston and Scott Glover tracked down ten

schoolmates and neighbors. None challenged Carson's story directly. Only one said they'd heard vague rumors about one of the incidents but all said this was not the boy they knew.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I was really surprised when I read he tried to stab someone. I was like, what?

JOHNS: Does it fit with the guy who you knew, I mean that kind of activity?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No.

JOHNS: The campaign has refused repeated requests from CNN to help find witnesses or the victim Carson mentions only by first names telling CNN it was a, quote, "witch hunt". CNN has been unable to locate witnesses or victims.

TIMOTHY MCDANIEL, FRIEND OF CARSON: I associate him with a lot of things but never stooping to the level of a common street thug, so I was a little surprised by it.

JOHNS: Timothy McDaniel says he was one of Carson's closest childhood friends. He says he raised it with Carson after the book came out.

MCDANIEL: I said, man, you hid it from us all those years. He said he was just too embarrassed to even talk about it. I was surprised at some of the things he said. But, you know, he said them honestly and I believed everything he told me.

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JOHNS: It's not entirely clear why Ben Carson says he had such a terrible temper when he was growing up. Though he makes clear in his book that his father had left the marital home, his mother struggled to make ends meet and he suffered through some pretty rough racial conflicts growing up in Detroit. So, Carol -- there was plenty to be angry about.

COSTELLO: All right. Joe Johns reporting live for us this morning. Thank you.

I'll be right back.

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COSTELLO: Taking a look at some top stories for you at 58 minutes past.

Officials in Louisiana say a six-year-old child was shot and killed after a pursuit between his father and police officers. The child was in the front seat of the car when gunfire was exchanged. Police say the boy's father had warrants ought for his arrest and was critically injured in the shooting. In the meantime, of course, the incident is now under investigation. A child who was reported missing in Alabama 13 years ago has now been

found safe and unharmed in Cleveland. Julian Hernandez was in a legal custody battle with his mother when he disappeared in August of 2002. Officials have arrested and charged the teenager's father in connection with the abduction. The pair had been reportedly living in Ohio under different names the entire time.

And Trevor Noah is expected to be back behind the "Daily Show" anchor desk tonight. The host had an emergency appendectomy just yesterday. Comedy Central says the procedure went well and Noah is recuperating. He took over the show from long-time host Jon Stewart back in august.

Thank you so much for joining me today. I'm Carol Costello.

"AT THIS HOUR" with Berman and Bolduan starts now.

JOHN BERMAN, CNN HOST: New this morning, an ISIS bomb attack or bad intelligence? British and U.S. sources say it was terrorists that likely took out a passenger jet. Russia and Egypt say not so fast. So who's right.