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Organizations Ask Gliniewicz Family for Money Back; David Cameron Offers Condolence to Vladimir Putin on Crash; George H.W. Bush Criticizes Son's Administration in New Book. Aired 2:30-3p ET

Aired November 05, 2015 - 14:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[14:30:00] LEE FILAS, STAFF WRITER, THE DAILY HERALD: Not at all. At the time, he didn't come off that way. He didn't come off like he was hiding anything or anything like that. To this point, I even talked to him since the latest news broke. I haven't heard anything that says he knew then.

BROOKE BALDWIN, CNN ANCHOR: Here is a man, as we have been talking about, got this heroes funeral, all these police officers and first responders coming out and also people giving money, organizations now want their money back. The 100 Club provides assistance for the families and first responders who lose their lives in the line of duty. They want their $15,000 returned. Do you know if anyone is getting their money back now that we know what really happened?

FILAS: I'm not sure how that could possibly happen. You're looking at a family who is probably not doing too well off right now. They had a lot of money come in, but at the same time, that's a lot of money to pay out in one stretch, especially under the current circumstances. I'm not sure how it's going to happen. It's going to have to play out in the coming days.

BALDWIN: It will play out, but they want it. They are not the only ones.

Lee, thank you very much.

FILAS: Thank you.

BALDWIN: Coming up next, the British Prime Minister David Cameron today offering his condolences to Russian President Vladimir Putin over that passenger plane crash over the peninsula. But Putin, thus far, is holding off blaming anyone. What will Russia's next move be, specifically with regards to Syria, and ISIS there? We'll discuss.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[14:35:53] BALDWIN: Just past the bottom of the hour. You're watching CNN. I'm Brooke Baldwin.

Russian President Vladimir Putin is stressing that claims about what caused that Russian passenger plane, MetroJet 9268 to go down over Egypt should be based on information from the official investigation. He talked with the British Prime Minister David Cameron about the crash. We're told Cameron explained why Britain temporarily suspended all flights into and out of Sharm el Sheikh Airport as a precaution. Both leaders agree they face a common threat from terrorism.

Joining me to discuss, Jill Dougherty, a researcher for the International Center for Defense and Security, very familiar with Russian policy and Putin.

Let's begin with, I feel like we haven't talked enough about who was on board that plane, the passengers, Russians, and how important will it be for how Putin will react, support them, domestically optic here.

JILL DOUGHERTY, RESEARCHER, INTERNATIONAL CENTER FOR DEFENSE AND SECURITY: I was looking last night at a website that has photographs of most of the people that died in the crash. They are middle class, average people. A lot of them are young. Born like in the '70s and '80s. And there were little kids, as you know. So they're the type of people who think they have for themselves. There were pictures of people on vacation, people drinking wine and skiing. This is the middle class. And so having this happen, I was thinking right, President Putin, right at the beginning of this operation in Syria said we're going to hit them in Syria so they won't hit us back here at home. And in a way, although obviously it happened in Egypt, they did, if this is terrorism, they hit at home in a way by hitting average Russians.

(CROSSTALK)

DOUGHERTY: Yeah. So what are the Russian people going to do? I think there's two things. They can either rally around the flag, which is really what happened to Americans after 9/11, and that means rallying around Putin, which a lot of people already do, based on the polls. Or they can say this man is supposed to protect us, why isn't he protecting us? So I think it has serious connotations for President Putin, his standing in the country, et cetera.

BALDWIN: With regard to Putin and Syria and potential rallying, we know what's already happening with Russia in Syria, but would this lead Putin to, forgive me, bomb the hell out of Raqqa, the ISIS stronghold? What do you see looking forward Putin's game would be?

DOUGHERTY: Remember, during the Chechen War, when he became the president, the Chechen War, that breakaway region in Russia, was in full flush. What he said was we're going to wipe them out in the out house. That's basically a quote by President Putin. He takes a very tough line. So if this were to turn out to be terrorism, then I would predict that he would also really take it to the terrorists. Now if it's ISIS, that would be one thing. There has been a little bit of movement more -- attacking ISIS, at least by the Syrian troops. I would predict a harsh response by President Putin.

BALDWIN: So far, we have had strong statements even before this U.S. Intelligence and Barbara Starr's reporting that it's looking like terrorism, that it's looking like ISIS planting a bomb. The U.S. is saying one thing and Russia and Egypt, this is a resort area. It wouldn't be good for Egypt for this to be a bomb. Why do you think Russia hasn't come forward and said this is it?

DOUGHERTY: They are saying legally they can't because the country that is leading the investigation, namely Egypt, is the one that's supposed to be talking about this. A lot of this information is coming from leaks. So the Russians are saying officially we can't say anything. And then also I think they want to be very sure. Putin is always on the news in Russia. And he has not been out there publicly, except a print statement from the Kremlin, about this. He hasn't made public statements to the nation. Nothing. I think they are waiting to see what is the -- what can they go with as hard information and then we'll have some response.

[14:40:34] BALDWIN: I'm sure they will.

Jill Dougherty, as always, thank you so much.

Coming up next, President George H.W. Bush out with a new book and pieces of it, new revelations, slamming former Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld and Vice President Dick Cheney. Now, Rumsfeld is hitting back, hard, saying the other Bush is, quote, "getting up there in years." Doesn't stop there. We'll talk with a former political director for George W. Bush and ask him about all of this, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[11:45:34] BALDWIN: Former President George H.W. Bush speaking openly and candidly for the first time in years about two of his sons, former top White House aides, and he's not holding back. The details are laid out in this new book called "Destiny in Power, The American Odyssey of George Herbert Walker Bush." Jon Meacham wrote the biography. It comes out Tuesday. Specifically, on Vice President Cheney, Meacham quotes the elder Bush as calling him an "iron ass. And he says, after 9/11, he became, quote, "very hard line," very different from the Dick Cheney he knew and worked with. Also that Cheney had, quote, "his own empire and marched to his own drummer." With regard to Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld, Bush 41 is quoted as saying, "He was an arrogant fellow and served the president badly." But Bush 43 is standing behind both men. He released a statement that reads in part, quote, "I am proud to have served with Dick Cheney and Don Rumsfeld. I am grateful to both men for their good advice, selfless service to our country, and friendship."

Matt Schlapp served as George W. Bush's former political director. He's also the chairman of the American Conservative Union.

So, Matt, great to have you back.

MATT SCHLAPP, CHAIRMAN, AMERICAN CONSERVATIVE UNION & FORMER GEORGE W. BUSH POLITICAL DIRECTOR: Great to be with you, Brooke.

BALDWIN: Before we get into the substance of some of this, my question is on the timing. Here we are, the Bush family again front and center with Jeb's campaign to become president, and the book, coincidence or calculated?

SCHLAPP: I have to think it's more of a coincidence. You have George Bush, a revered figure, in the winter of his life. I think his boys want to see him get his treatment of what a great man of history he's been. But the consequence of what 41 being focused on is that it always impacts his sons. It definitely will impact conversations about Jeb Bush.

BALDWIN: It will. We're going to get to that. First, to the substance. Rumsfeld and Cheney, you were the deputy assistant. What about these revolutions surprises you the most and do you agree with any of it?

SCHLAPP: It's a great political story and worth covering. We had a little team of rivals on the right with Dick Cheney and don Rumsfeld and it's interesting. The only thing about this I don't agree with, I had a lot of meetings with President Bush in the Oval Office. I was never confused about who was going to make the decision and never confused as to the direction. Bush 43 was a very clear and direct talker. You knew exactly what he wanted to happen. This idea that Dick Cheney or other people were running around him really making the decisions is really pretty absurd.

BALDWIN: I think in the end, Bush 41 acknowledges that. Part of his piece talking about Cheney saying the big mistake take made was letting Cheney bring in his own State Department. He went on, it says, "But it's not Cheney's fault. It's the president's fault." So the buck stopped with Bush 41.

Also back to Jeb Bush. He has since responded to all of this today. Here you go.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Donald Rumsfeld said your father was getting up in the years. Do you want to respond?

JEB BUSH, (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE & FORMER FLORIDA GOVERNOR: Not really. I love my dad. He's a great guy. I think the book is going to be worth reading. I recommend it.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: There you go. Short and sweet. No huge news made there.

But from Donald Rumsfeld, he said this as a statement, quote, "Bush 41 is getting up in the years and misjudges Bush 43, who I found made his own decisions. There are hundreds of memos on Rumsfeld.com that represent advice DOD gave the president."

Getting up in years, Matt? What's that supposed to mean?

(CROSSTALK)

BALDWIN: Come on.

SCHLAPP: It's a little the pot calling the kettle black when you have a guy in his mid 80s calling a guy in his 90s an old guy. It leaves the rest of us wondering what that's about. These are old rivalries. It's going to be a great read. There's a fair amount of criticism to throw around at the Bush administration, the Bush 43 administration's foreign policy. History will be the judge. There's no question about the fact that we made a lot of errors in judgments, and Don Rumsfeld and Condi Rice and Collin Powell and the others, they deserve the scrutiny they are going to get.

[14:50:04] BALDWIN: I guess rivalries don't go away.

SCHLAPP: Right.

(LAUGHTER)

Right.

BALDWIN: Another revelation in the book, that way back in 1988, Donald Trump wanted to be Bush 41's running mate. What? Surprised?

SCHLAPP: Wow, yeah. That is a little strange. The most strange thing about that to me, Brooke, is that I can't imagine Donald Trump being number two to anyone.

BALDWIN: He's a winner. We hear him say it over and over.

SCHLAPP: He's a winner.

BALDWIN: Talking about that poll.

Finally, "National Journal's," Ron Fournier, he raised this question today the whole back to Jeb Bush. What if Jeb Bush? Earlier, on the campaign trail, when he tripped up on the Iraq question, it said what his father is now saying about his brother, and also about Cheney and Rumsfeld with regard to Iraq. Do you think that would have straightened things out from the get go?

SCHLAPP: He did fumble on that question. His own brother, the former president, didn't expect him to fumble on it. Bush 43 is totally comfortable with the idea that Jeb has to run his own race. I heard George W. Bush tell a lot of candidates you have to do what's right for your campaign. I'm positive he has the same feeling about his brother. He'll take his licks as the former president, so will his father, but they want Jeb Bush to run a winning campaign, and that's what they would tell him to do.

BALDWIN: On that winning campaign, before I let you go, one more piece of sound. This is Jeb Bush talking with MSNBC about audio from a conference call.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BUSH (voice-over): I'll head back home and do a little preparation on the debate. I promise I'll do better. All the Nervous Nellies on the call, chill out. We're going to do better, I promise you. This is going to be a fun campaign.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: "All the Nervous Nellies on the call, chill out," Jeb Bush says. Can he bring it? When will he bring it? He has to be so sick of the single digits in polls.

SCHLAPP: His back is against the wall. I think the horse race in these polls is a little overstated. But there's no question his trend line has been way down. And he knows his debate performances have been bad. He has to campaign for president like he did successfully when he was running for governor in Florida. It was about conservative themes and really connecting to voters. This is his moment to start to do that. He has a new plan. We're going to see if it works.

BALDWIN: Matt Schlapp, thank you.

SCHLAPP: Thanks, Brooke.

BALDWIN: Coming up, Ben Carson responding to CNN today as well. This is regarding allegations of his apparent violent past, going over specific instances, explaining his beliefs. Also, as we're hearing why he thinks the pyramids in Egypt were built.

Plus, as the U.K. opens up some flights to Sharm el Sheikh and the Sinai Peninsula in Egypt after that Russian plane downing, CNN is learning about terrorist chatter surrounding the crash. Stay here.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[14:57:34] BALDWIN: The CNN film special "I'll Be Me" is the story of Glen Campbell's farewell tour after being diagnosed with Alzheimer's. Make sure you catch this film Saturday night at 8:00 eastern here.

And today, our chief medical correspondent, Dr. Sanjay Gupta, shows us how tough living with Alzheimer's disease really can be.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

DR. SANJAY GUPTA, CNN CHIEF MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): It's every grandfather's dream come true.

SANDY HELPRIN, BATTLES ALZHEIMER'S DISEASE: That was, like, melt my heart. I mean just do it again.

GUPTA: Sandy Helprin wishes these moments could last forever. But he knows they will soon disappear. Such is the tragic reality of Alzheimer's.

HELPRIN: Our brains, our being controlling our body, and when you lose your memory, the pain is a different pain.

(SHOUTING)

HELPRIN: The pain is the emotional pain.

Push. One, two, three.

That's why I wrote the grandpa books while I could and get my thoughts down on paper for my children and grandchildren as to how I felt about things.

GUPTA: Sandy showed his me grandparent books on a recent rainy afternoon.

HELPRIN: During your lifetime, there will be endless firsts.

GUPTA: What emerges is a memorable portrait of a caring and quirky dad.

HELPRIN: I used to make kids lunches, peanut butter and jelly, ham, cheese, whatever was in the refrigerator.

GUPTA (on camera): Ham and cheese?

HELPRIN: I just made crazy sandwiches

(LAUGHTER)

GUPTA (voice-over): As his disease progresses, opening each book for Sandy is a new joy, a fresh feast of past experiences.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: When he remembers, it's the best. When he gets it, it's like, ah, yes. It's little tiny victories of remembering.

(SHOUTING)

HELPRIN: They talk about formative years. All the love that I have for them, when I touch and feel and talk to them, maybe that will make an impact on their lives from their grandpa.

(LAUGHTER)

HELPRIN: They may not have me physically in the future or have me as cognitive as I am now, but I hope that the influence I have on them, the time I spend with them, has been worthwhile, because they have certainly given it back to me multifold every day of their lives.