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Ben Carson Slams Media; Outrage Over NFL's Greg Hardy; Students, Professors to Stage Walk out at University of Missouri. Aired 9:30-10a ET

Aired November 09, 2015 - 09:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[09:30:00] FORMER GOV. TIM PAWLENTY (R), MINNESOTA: Attacking the media can be a very popular thing with Republican primary voters. So in that regard, it may not initially hurt him. Now, the next phase, though, is going to be whether these allegations of either exaggerating or fabricating are born out. And if they are, that is going to hurt him. But if they're not, and it kind of goes away as a misunderstanding, attacking the media and having that opportunity is probably not going to hurt him that much, at least with Republican primary voters.

CAROL COSTELLO, CNN ANCHOR: John, should Ben Carson put forth some evidence or is it up to us to uncover it?

JOHN AVLON, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: Yes, he should be able to make -- make it clear that the things in his own biography that were so popular that drove him to the point where he could run for president are based in fact, not self-mytholization (ph). You know, that's -- that's at stake here. But I think the governor just pointed out something important. You know, is attacking the media as a way of deflecting questions that are part of the normal scrutiny that is provided to presidential candidates is a very popular tactic in the Republican Party right now. And I think you're seeing (INAUDIBLE) ideological politicians really resist the kind of scrutiny that the press in part exists to provide in campaigns. And that's a problem. You know, the Constitution doesn't mention political parties. It does mention the press. So there is a tension in this relationship. But simply doing a -- trying to get cheers from the base in order to deflect attention from legitimate questions, that itself is a real problem and we should be pushing back on that.

COSTELLO: Well, Tim, you heard from Ben Carson -- he -- he said, you know, you didn't -- you don't scrutinize Barack Obama's biography in the same way you're scrutinizing mine. You're a Republican. Is the media unfair to Republican candidates?

PAWLENTY: Look, if you're going to run for president of the United States, everybody gets their time in a barrel. It's all going to be vetted and scrutinized, particularly if you become a frontrunner or anywhere near the pack. So this is, you know, routine or regular or expected. And again, he can buy some time as a tactic to attack the media. But if it turns out these allegations are exaggerated or fabricated, it's going to cost him. And that's the way it should be. That's the way the process is. It's a gauntlet. It's ugly, it's difficult, but it vets out people over time and, you know, you can't just be the frontrunner for a month if you've got baggage.

COSTELLO: OK. So, John, the big debate is happening tomorrow. The next big debate, I should say. How much will this play in the debate, do you think?

AVLON: My guess is it's going to be largely a point of agreement with candidates who are finding it, as they did in the last debate, very profitable to deflect attention from tough questions by blaming the media. You know, Ben Carson is not a deeply polarizing figure in the Republican primary circuit the way say Donald Trump might be. So I don't know that you'll see other candidates, you know, not rush to his defense. The question is, will moderators start pulling punches for fear of getting the audience to turn on them? And the reality is, is that they need to continue asking legitimate, tough questions. If you overreach, if you, in effect, troll, then you hurt the credibility of yourself as an individual questioner in the press in general. We know there's a large history here and there's sometimes that the press can be more tough on Republicans, particularly local Republicans, in places like New York with "The New York Times" That does happen at times.

But this is part of the process. The process has its own integrity and the candidates, I don't think they'll throw Ben Carson under the bus. I think they're going to try to keep the attention turned on the media in the hopes that they can get the media to start not doing its job aggressively.

COSTELLO: So, Tim, if you were on that debate stage, is that what you would do?

PAWLENTY: Well, again, if you're -- if you've got an opponent who is in a hole, you know, I don't think you want to necessarily, like Bernie Sanders did, throw Hillary Clinton a lifeline. You let him or her explain their way out or dig their own way out of a hole. So you might see some of that. But again, for purposes of Republican primary, attacking the media is popular, but it's just a tactic. It just buys you a little time.

I hope they get to more serious issues. Like you mentioned, I'm on the advisory council of the U.S. global leadership coalition and I wish somebody asked the question, you know, as president, a tool of diplomacy and development and aid are important. What's your view on that specifically as a candidate? Not generally, but specifically, what are you going to do with those types of programs, funding and otherwise?

COSTELLO: So, specifically, Tim --

AVLON: Yes.

COSTELLO: How is your group pushing for that?

PAWLENTY: Well, we've launched a campaign called Impact 2016. And it's bipartisan. It's led by people like Madeline Albright, Condoleezza Rice, Bill Frisk, Tom Daschle, Tom Ridge, many others, myself, just trying to elevate the issues, even though it's a small amount of money, of diplomacy, development and aid, both as an economic and strategic and humanitarian tool that will be important as president. We just want it to be an important part of the discussion during the campaign, too.

COSTELLO: Sounds good to me. Tim Pawlenty, John Avlon, many thanks to both. I've got to leave it the.

Still to come in the NEWSROOM, sickening photos of an NFL star's bruised former girlfriend released online. Should he still be playing football?

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[09:39:08] COSTELLO: Greg Hardy. What can you say? It's the same old, same old. If you're a talented athlete who can seemingly help win ballgames, you can pretty much get away with anything. Hardy was on the field last night playing for the Dallas Cowboys despite awful pictures of alleged abuse inflicted on his one-time girlfriend. Deadspin uncovered them. They show bruises on her back and on her neck. Yes, Hardy was suspended by the NFL four games in 2014. Yes, prosecutors tried to take him to court, but his alleged victim was nowhere to be found. Still, why is Greg Hardy still playing and Ray Rice can't find a job? And, no, it's not because Hardy is a totally reformed apologetic guy. This is how he himself put it in a tweet. Quote, "I just had to say I express my regret for what happened in the past and I'm dedicated to being the best person and teammate that I can be. But mostly I am grateful for the opportunity to play in the NFL." No apologies to his alleged victim. No word about his girlfriend. Nothing.

[09:40:07] With me now to talk about this, CNN sports anchor Rachel Nichols, and Coy Wire, who's also a former Falcons player. He's also a CNN sports correspondent.

Welcome to both of you.

COY WIRE, CNN SPORTS CORRESPONDENT: Thank you.

COSTELLO: OK. I said my -- I was on my soapbox. Now I'm going to get off and allow you two to be on your soapboxes. So, Rachel, why do the Cowboys say Hardy is playing and why is Ray -- Ray Rice being shunned by every team in the NFL?

RACHEL NICHOLS, CNN SPORTS ANCHOR: Right. I mean, look, we know, and you said it, it comes down to if you can still play football, people want you on the field. There is a perception in the NFL that Ray Rice is done playing football, while Greg Hardy certainly can still play football. And the Cowboys will tell you that, hey, they're just giving Greg Hardy a second chance and, gosh darn it, this is the country of second chances.

The problem is, second chances should just not pop out of a vending machine, Carol. You should get a second chance when you are contrite. When you have earned it. Especially when that second chance involves making millions of dollars and asking for the adulation of all of these fans, all of these people cheering your name. You need to earn it. And Greg Hardy has shown no contrition. He has thumbed his nose at the woman that he beat. He has thumbed his nose at women in general. And he has been enabled by the Dallas Cowboys.

Their owner saying he thinks Greg Hardy is just terrific. In fact, he's a real leader. And in the same breath, Jerry Jones, the owner of the Dallas Cowboys, says, hey, as an organization, they don't condone domestic violence. They take this very seriously. But you can't just say that. The words don't mean anything. They clearly do condone domestic violence and they don't take it seriously because look what they're doing with Greg Hardy.

COSTELLO: I know. It's like crazy. Coy, Ray Rice -- Ray Rice talked with ESPN about the Hardy situation. He said, quote, "it really shouldn't take photos or anything to understand the severity of domestic violence. It happens every eight seconds as we speak. It does continue to raise awareness. It's just a tough deal that sometimes it takes a visual and photos for the severity of it to be known. My deepest condolences go out to the survivors of domestic violence." So as Rachel said, Jerry Jones wants to give Hardy a second chance. But Hardy's not talking like Ray Rice. What has he done to deserve it?

WIRE: Well, Carol, he's sacked a lot of quarterbacks, to be quite honest with you. That's what he's done.

Look, what we tolerate, we perpetuate. And Jerry Jones and the Dallas Cowboys are perpetuating domestic violence, in my opinion. So it's frustrating as a former player because in the NFL it seems that playmakers are more important than principles. And I'm tired of that. There's a culture of the NFL that needs to change. Jerry Jones and the Dallas Cowboys had an opportunity right now to stand up and make a difference and make a bold statement. But it seems to be that it matter not what you've done, nor how troubling it is. If you can really play, you can stay and you can get paid. They're paying him almost $1 million per game this season. That's absurd to me. What does this say to kids? What -- what does this say about the Dallas Cowboys and their organization that not only did they choose to sign this man after he was convicted by a judge in a bench trial of domestic violence, but then they continue to employ him after these photos come out? That's absurd, Carol.

COSTELLO: OK. So here's a dose of reality, Rachel. The Panthers, you know his former team, they're 8-0 without Hardy. The Cowboys have -- are on the worst losing streak since 1989.

NICHOLS: Yes, karma, thanks for inviting them to the table, right? Absolutely. There's an element of that for those of us watching.

I do just want to follow up also on what Coy said. I am surprised at some of the men in the locker room for the Dallas Cowboys because there are a lot of good guys in that locker room. There are men with daughters, mothers, wives that they care about, good people that I have spoken to and I would think more of them would go to their coach, go to their owner and say, this is not a guy we want around. We talk about character and team work in sports. What the fabric of the locker room is. If more of those good men went to their coach and said, we don't want this in our mix, I promise you, Greg Hardy would be gone. If the sponsors of the Dallas Cowboys, the people we as consumers give our money to, American Airlines, AT&T, if they went to the Dallas Cowboys and said, hey, we don't want our name associated with this guy, Greg Hardy would be gone. And again, I believe in second chances, too. I don't appreciate the Dallas Cowboys saddling Greg Hardy to this idea of second chances. People can deserve a second chance if they earn it.

COSTELLO: Right.

[09:44:38] NICHOLS: Greg Hardy has not earned it and his teammates have a responsibility to say, we don't want him around. And, frankly, these sponsors have the responsibility to say we don't want him around. We at CNN have reached out to those sponsors. Only one, American Airlines, even bothered to respond to us, Carol. And their response, frankly, was, hey, we work with a lot of teams. They do community service. We do community service.

You can see their statement on the screen here.

[09:45:03] "We join with the teams on several projects throughout the year." And, hey, as part of our endeavors with them and initiatives, we improve the communities we serve and we support organizations that protect victims. Come on! I mean, really, Carol, come on.

COSTELLO: Well, Rachel, Rachel, I don't know if you agree with me or not, but I think you do, I think Ray Rice actually deserves a second chance.

NICHOLS: Of course he does. And that's what's so gulling. Don't tell me about second chances and this is a country of second chances. There's a guy who does deserve a second chance but he's not Greg Hardy. His name is Ray Rice and until Greg Hardy shows --

WIRE: He's not producing anymore, Rachel. You know that.

NICHOLS: -- a little bit contrition. It's true. You're absolutely right.

COSTELLO: I know, Coy. You're right. You're right.

WIRE: His last five years before his incident, Ray Rice's production dropped 42 percent, to only 3.1 yards per carry. If he was still a Pro Bowl player, he'd be on a team, unfortunately.

COSTELLO: That kind of makes me nauseous. Coy Wire, Rachel Nichols, thanks to both of you.

WIRE: You're welcome.

COSTELLO: Still to come in the NEWSROOM, tensions rising at the University of Missouri this morning. Next, we'll talk with a school faculty member about whether students and teachers will walk out this morning.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[09:50:40] COSTELLO: At the University of Missouri this morning, racial tensions and threats of a walkout not only from students and football players but now teachers, professors as well. Joining me on the phone is Nicole Monnier; she's an associate teaching professor at the university. Good morning.

DR/ NICOLE MONNIER, PROFESSOR, UNIVERSITY OF MISSOURI (on the phone): Good morning.

COSTELLO: Nicole, help us understand what's going on on the campus.

MONNIER: Oh, my goodness. I don't even know where to begin. But the most recent iteration of this is a hunger strike by a graduate student named Jonathan Butler, and around which has sprung up a very significant support system of students, mostly undergraduates, and now faculty and staff at the university.

COSTELLO: Tell us about these racial incidents. What has sparked all of this?

MONNIER: Well, you'd have to go back to last year with Ferguson and the riots. A number of our students on campus come from the Ferguson area, which is only about 100 miles away from the University of Missouri. And there were a couple of peaceful protests on campus in support of Ferguson and in honor of Ferguson, and that sparked some reaction on social media and even on campus that really galvanized the African-American students on campus to address what can only be called systematic racism at the University of Missouri.

COSTELLO: So students are very angry at the president of the university. They say he is ignoring their concerns. Can you address that?

MONNIER: I think if you've seen the unfortunate statement that was caught on video on Friday where he answered the question "How would you define systematic oppression?" as "It is your belief that you do not have equal opportunity at our institution." I think that gives -- that kind of captures nicely the inadequacy of his responses.

To be fair, the system president usually has relatively little to do with the individual campuses. He oversees the four campuses at St. Louis, here in Columbia, at Kansas City, and in Rolla. And so usually the system president doesn't have such a public face on campus. But that certainly is not what's happening now.

COSTELLO: OK, so the professors, like yourself, are threatening to walk out of class this morning. You say it may be an historic day. What do you mean by that?

MONNIER: Well, there are a number of things going on right now. I think we are all holding our breath to see what happens at the board of curators meeting today. They have called their third kind of public/private meeting in about -- it's been about a six-week span. And there's expectation that we're going to hear something about Wolfe's status as system president and possibly even about our own chancellor, campus chancellor. And I think what comes out of that meeting is going to affect what happens immediately on campus, though I don't think the simple firing of our president is going to slow down the movement on campus, but it will certainly affect where it goes next.

COSTELLO: All right, Dr. Nicole Monnier, thank you so much for being with me today. I'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[09:58:28] COSTELLO: Checking some top stories at 58 past -- the FBI now offering its help into the investigation of that doomed Russian airliner. This as one official says they're 99.9 percent sure a bomb took that plane down, killing all 224 people on board. U.S. sources say the FBI could be used to decipher an explosion-like sound heard on the plane's voice recorder. Russian officials say more than 100 victims have been identified through DNA testing.

InMaryland four people are dead, including a child, following this fiery crash involving a church van. Our affiliate WJLA reports the accident started when a pickup truck hit another car and then kept driving with its tires on fire. 14 others, including 6 children, were taken to the hospital. Witnesses report seeing flames shoot 20 feet into the air.

Starbucks is stirring up controversy with their plain red Christmas cups this holiday season, the company deciding to remove the reindeer and ornaments. Starbucks says it wants to usher in the season with a pure design that creates a, quote, culture of belonging, inclusion, and diversity. Critics accuse the company of waging a war on Christmas. We'll keep you posted.

The next hour of CNN NEWSROOM starts now.

(MUSIC)

COSTELLO: Good morning. I'm Carol Costello. Thank you so much for joining me. Later this morning, two Louisiana police officers charged with second-degree murder in the death of a 6-year-old autistic boy are due in court.

[10:00:00] The officers are accused of shooting first grader Jeremy Mardis as they chased his father's car. Jeremy will be buried later this afternoon.