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Legal View with Ashleigh Banfield

Child Shot by Cops; Police Question Man in Texas Judge's Ambush; GOP Rivals Gearing up for Debate Showdown; Funeral for Tyshawn Lee in Chicago. Aired 12-12:30p ET

Aired November 10, 2015 - 12:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


[12:00:00] UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That he didn't get injured severely.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PAMELA BROWN, CNN ANCHOR: Unbelievable. Well, that suspect is now charged with assault and battery with a deadly weapon, DUI and several other charges.

Thank you so much for joining us "AT THIS HOUR". LEGAL VIEW with Ashleigh Banfield starts right now. Have a great day.

ASHLEIGH BANFIELD, CNN ANCHOR: Hello, everyone. I'm Ashleigh Banfield. And welcome the LEGAL VIEW.

We are finally getting word now on what started that police chase that led to the shooting death of a six-year-old boy in Louisiana. Little Jeremy Mardis had autism. Jeremy couldn't speak. And he was defenseless as he sat in the front seat of his father's truck and was shot by police five times in the head and chest. And now a source close to the case tells CNN the two officers started their pursuit of the boy's father after they witnessed an argument between Chris Few, that's the father, and his girlfriend, in front of a local bar. Our Nick Valencia is live in Marksville, Louisiana, for us today.

So what is it apparently these officers saw that set in motion this deadly chain of events?

NICK VALENCIA, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, a source close to the investigation characterized it as a domestic dispute. Whether it was just a verbal confrontation, perhaps a physical confrontation, that's still unclear. But Chris Few did leave the scene and what marshals saw was enough to pursue Chris Few's vehicle. That ultimately ended at a dead end and 18 shots being fired into that vehicle.

Chris Few was injure. He's still in the hospital. But it was his little boy who was fatality shot, hit five times in the head and chest. Today, Ashleigh, marks one week since that shooting happened and it's still unclear exactly why authorities used lethal force. And because of a gag order, just issued by a local judge here, the answer to that may not come any time soon.

Ashleigh.

BANFIELD: And yet we are getting some answers, albeit in in dribs and drabs from players who are joining the case, were not present, but an attorney in the case, I believe representing the father, says there's body cam video clearly showing that this father had his hands up when the shots were fired. Is that true?

VALENCIA: Well, there's some discrepancy in that reporting. That being told to the Associated Press. We don't know if the attorney has even seen the tape. In fact, we've been told it's just a few people, two people, the judge and another local official that have seen that tape.

We've reached out to the attorney. The attorney said that he did not want to comment about that. I spoke to his secretary yesterday. They do not want to comment on that.

What you have to understand about this community, Ashleigh, it's a - it's a very small community, 5,000 people here in Marksville, Louisiana, where everyone seems to have a reputation, people are tied into each other. As a matter of fact, the district attorney here has recused himself from the case because the assistant district attorney, his son, Norris Greenhouse, is one of those deputy marshals that's been charged with the murder of this six-year-old.

I spoke to the mayor yesterday and he was very nonchalant when he was talking to me about the suspicion that there is corruption here. He says there's a division in the police force and he has, himself, has had an encounter - negative encounter with Derrick Stafford, one of those deputies that is charged in the murder of this six-year-old. Just listen to what he had to say to me yesterday about the community here in Marksville.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MAYOR JOHN LEMOINE, MARKSVILLE, LOUISIANA: Well, it's a close-knit community and he has friends in high places. And we tried to go ahead and I've tried to talk to the previous chief about it. You know, and nothing was done. That's why at the time that I - I had a problem that I wanted to get rid of the chief because some of the issues weren't getting addressed. So we - we hired another chief.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VALENCIA: So you hear him there talking about wanting to get rid of Derrick Stafford, that marshal here locally that has been charged in the murder. We can tell you that both Greenhouse and Stafford were transferred yesterday about 40 miles away to Alexandria, Louisiana. They say here locally that the system there, the jail system, is better suited to handle those two individuals.

Ashleigh.

BANFIELD: Nick Valencia reporting for us live. Thank you for that.

Our other big story today on LEGAL VIEW, this one out of Texas, and the first potential break in that ambush shooting of a long time judge. Police in Houston are questioning a man who is said to have some sort of connection to that judge. Her name is Julie Kocurek, and apparently she was - the person who is being questioned was picked up on a warrant in an unrelated case, yet has this connection to the judge. CNN's Ed Lavandera is following this case. He joins us live as well.

Do we know what kind of connection this person has, who this person is, and what kind of questions they're asking?

ED LAVANDERA, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, we haven't been able to nail down the specifics of all of that, just exactly how investigators came to focus in on this person, what exactly does it mean by that connection? Obviously, a lot of friends and colleagues here in Austin, Texas, have been telling us - telling us for several days that they are convinced that through the judge's work here in her thousands of cases over the years that perhaps there is someone in there with a grudge and that's where investigators would be looking. So they were convinced, many of her friends and colleagues here at the courthouse convinced that this connection and this targeted attack might stem from something in her caseload here working as a judge in Texas.

[12:05:34] But this law enforcement source, Ashleigh, telling us that this person was arrested and is being questioned in - on an unrelated fugitive warrant. And this was executed late last night. So exactly what has happened since this person was taken into custody, we're not exactly clear. The Austin Police Department is not offering or making any public statements about this person being taken into custody. And the family of the judge isn't saying much either, although the family is saying that the judge is steadily making improvements in her recovery and is expected to make a full recovery.

Ashleigh.

BANFIELD: And, Ed, this notion that you are reporting to us from Austin, yet that arrest was made in Houston. Is there anything to be made of the fact that this - you know, there are two different cities, the communications between them, why that person was in Houston. Is there anything to be made of it?

LAVANDERA: It's - it would be total speculation at this point, you know, exactly - and there's a lot of, you know, suspicion that's kind of swirling around. And, obviously, the talk of the courthouse here. And, obviously, this person being picked up in Houston, which is a good three-hour drive away from Austin, is, you know, raising even more questions. So, you know, we're still trying to dig into all that as much as we can.

BANFIELD: Thank God Judge Kocurek survived the shooting. Ed Lavandera, when we know more, please bring it to us right away. Thank you for that.

And I'm lucky to be joined right now by a colleague of Judge Kocurek. Eric Shepperd is a fellow Travis County judge and president of the Austin Bar Association. Happened to work with Judge Kocurek.

Thank you so much, judge, for joining us.

JUDGE ERIC SHEPPERD, TRAVIS CO. TEXAS, COURT-AT-LAW: Thank you for having me. BANFIELD: First of all, can you tell us - can you tell us anything,

sir, that we don't already know about this extraordinary mystery of the shooting of your friend.

SHEPPERD: Well, there's not much that's being said. It appears to - there have been some planning involved here. There appears to have been a trash can placed in the driveway and then the attack happened shortly thereafter. So their - they appeared to have planned it fairly specifically to get to Julie.

BANFIELD: Judge Shepperd -

SHEPPERD: Judge Kocurek.

BANFIELD: Yes. Yes.

Judge Shepperd, the - it's not lost on anyone who's following this story that judges have to make real tough decisions all the time, and at least 50 percent of the courtroom is somewhat unhappy about those decisions. And your colleague has been on the bench a long time, she was a prosecutor for a long time, which would amount to a lot of cases to have to go through to find a nexus to this shooting. What kind of work is being done down that avenue?

SHEPPERD: I have a friend who was speaking to a prosecutor in her court the other day and she was talking about all the cases that they were going through. There are thousands of them literally. And she had said essentially, it's like spying - trying to find a needle in a haystack. So there are thousands of cases that she's been through. There are thousands of cases they'll have to go through, but they're all doing the work because this is a really tragic incident and everyone loves Judge Kocurek

BANFIELD: And, again, I mean it's a - you don't expect this to happen. And yet, in Texas, in your state, it's happened. It's been happening. I've reported on it in this show. Up east of Dallas, there were several shootings of people within Texas jurisprudence. And it makes me wonder if the bar association, of which you are now the head, is doing anything differently to protect its members. And I - I would direct that question towards members like prosecutors, not so much defense attorneys, but prosecutors and judges who do have to make these tough decisions.

SHEPPERD: Well, whenever an incident like this takes place, what you try to do is go back and assess where your security is, how - what you can do better to make your security better, and that's happening now. Our administrative judge, Judge Livingston, is going through with the law enforcement personnel in making sure that whatever we can do to make sure that we get better security, we are going to do.

And so that's one - those are some of the things that are going on. The bar itself is not really a part of that discussion, but because I'm a judge, I happen to be a part of that discussion. And we will continue to focus on - the law enforcement agencies here are really doing a great job. The sheriff's office, the police department, the constable office, all are participating in trying to make sure that everyone is safe and secure in not only the criminal courthouse, but the civil one as well.

BANFIELD: Sure. Do you have any additional protection given that you have a role just like hers?

SHEPPERD: Well, they are looking at - looking at what they are going to do. The additional protection is going to be a part of a package that they're trying to deal with and I think they're going to come up - we don't really talk about much about what's going on. You know, I may change my route a little bit or be more vigilant in how I look around in my surroundings and I think all the judges are sort of on a high alert now at this time because basically you're just trying to be sure that you - if you see something out of the ordinary, if you see something a little unusual, that you make sure that you take a few extra precautions to make sure that you're safe, and your family is safe.

[12:10:27] BANFIELD: Judge Shepperd, I mean I know how these things work. There's so much chatter around a courthouse on any given day about cases that are going on. Is there chatter around your courthouse about certain cases where you just have this suspicion, somewhere where perhaps the focus will be more intense, or are you all absolutely bewildered?

SHEPPERD: That happens almost every day. I mean I don't think we're bewildered. I think that's why they're going through the cases that she is going - that she's had over the course of time. And I think that all of us are, you know, sharing information about how we do, what we're going to do, to make sure that we're making sure our surroundings and we're looking at those surroundings and making sure if there's anything out of the ordinary, we notify the police officers and make sure that all that takes place.

It's a tough situation. We tend to all get a little bit comfortable in where we are walking or dealing. In fact, I probably - I got driven down here today. Usually I would just walk downtown. So we're all taking a few more precautions to make sure that we're safe. This attack on Judge Kocurek is an attack on the entire legal community and it's important that we recognize that we all can do a little bit better in making sure we're aware of our surroundings, and make sure that we report those things to the appropriate law enforcement authorities so that we can, in fact, all be safer.

BANFIELD: Yes. and she works for us and with us, so it's an attack on society as well.

Judge, I -

SHEPPERD: Absolutely.

BANFIELD: I'm glad you're taking additional steps to be safe and I encourage it. We don't often get judges on our program, so it's a real treat to be able to speak with you. I'm sorry it's under these circumstances and I hope you get an opportunity soon to see your friend and give us - give her our well wishes. Thank you, judge.

SHEPPERD: I certainly will. Thank you. BANFIELD: Judge Eric Shepperd joining us, Travis County judge. We'll

continue to follow that story.

We're also looking towards tonight, will Trump turn on Carson and Rubio? Can Jeb turn the tide? And will they all turn on the media? It is GOP debate night and we're going to tell you what to be on the lookout for coming up.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[12:16:35] BANFIELD: Tonight's GOP presidential debate is supposed to be about the economy, but some bizarre pre-debate statements by the candidates might just be altering the scripts as we speak right now regarding what you're going to hear tonight live.

First, Donald Trump, who is taking every chance that he can to attack fellow frontrunner Ben Carson, about the allegations that he has effectively redeemed himself after what he says was a very violent childhood. Listen to what Trump said.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: You stab somebody, and the newspapers say you didn't do it. And you said, yes, I did. I did it. No, you didn't. Yes, I did. I stabbed him and it hit the belt. And they said you didn't do it. If they said I didn't do it, I'd be so happy.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BANFIELD: It is kind of weird, isn't it? Sort of upside down this year.

And then there's this from Jeb Bush, who was asked about, of all things, Adolf Hitler. Have a look.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JEB BUSH (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Said if you could go back in time and kill baby Hitter, would you? I need to know.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (INAUDIBLE).

BUSH: Hell, yeah, I would.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Even if he was really cute?

BUSH: No, look, you've got to - you've got to - you've got to step up, man.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BANFIELD: I think it's supposed to be tongue and cheek, but who knows. Tonight's debate in Milwaukee is going to be the fourth time these candidates have gone head and head, but take a look at the list right there. Only eight of them are going to be taking part on the main stage this time, not the whole pack.

I want to bring in CNN's senior media correspondent Brian Stelter, who is live at the debate site.

So many questions to ask. I was sort of wanting to ask you about the moderators, you know, getting out their Kevlar and getting ready for tonight, but I need to ask you about these other things as well because this is a Fox Business debate and, yes, you would think this is going to be all about the money and all about the economy, but there's such strangeness going on right now. Where do you expect this debate to begin and ultimately end?

BRIAN STELTER, CNN SENIOR MEDIA CORRESPONDENT: Well, it's starting to get a little bit busy here, even though there's many hours to go before the debate tonight. I do think what we're going to see is a tone set at the beginning about the economy, about business issues. But we'll see where the candidates end up taking this. The candidates might be more interested, at least some of them, in talking about their rivals, about attacking each other personally, rather than talking about business and economic ideas.

You know, I talked to one of the moderators, Maria Bartiromo, and she said she wants to make sure viewers come away with more understanding about the differences between policies. What we've seen in prior debates is that it becomes much more about personality, it becomes about what Donald Trump says about his rivals, how they respond, et cetera. And the debate rules give people more time to respond, 90 seconds to answer questions and then 60 seconds if they are attacked or if they are talked about. So there's more time for the candidates to either talk about policy or, you know, talk about those issues we were just hearing about.

I do think, Ashleigh, this will be a Hitler-free debate though.

BANFIELD: That's such a weird question, right, you know?

All right, so let me ask you a little bit about the - the suggestions on how that - format is one thing where you give a certain amount of time for responses, but then there's also the notion that you can set up questions to have candidates respond to each other directly, or answer to each other or defending each other or not.

STELTER: Yes.

BANFIELD: Have they - have these moderators given any clues as to what they plan to do to mix it up a little?

STELTER: Well, for one thing, they want it to be the anti-CNBC debate. They want to draw a sharp contrast to their rival business channel, CNBC, since that debate was so poor reviewed two weeks ago. We will see some encouragement of actual debate the way we saw at CNN's debate back in September. You know, it feels like there's been so many debates, Ashleigh, even though there's only been four, but that's because CNBC's debate was only two weeks ago.

[12:20:19] What's so significant about tonight is that there's not a debate on the calendar for five weeks. So if you don't stand out tonight, if you're a candidate who's not doing well and you don't have a good night tonight, that could be trouble for you for weeks to come. That's something I think we're going to be paying close attention to.

The fact that there's eight candidates as opposed to 10 will make a real difference because people will have more time to talk. And then, keep in mind, at the junior varsity debate, there are four candidates speaking earlier in the night, but so far we haven't really ever seen a candidate come out and impress people at those debates. You know, Carly Fiorina did and she made it onto the main stage later, but now people aren't really talking about her. She's barely on the stage tonight. And, of course, Lindsey Graham was the appointed winner of the last undercard debate and he didn't even make the cut for the undercard debate tonight. So we'll see if Chris Christie has a better chance than Lindsey Graham did last time.

BANFIELD: Did you say five weeks until the next Republican debate? Is that what you said?

STELTER: Five weeks, 35 days. It's Wolf Blitzer's debate here on CNN in mid-December.

BANFIELD: What are we going to do?

STELTER: So after this one, it's going to be a while.

BANFIELD: Yes, that's going to be tough. Thank you for that. I have just the answer. Thanks, Brian Stelter.

STELTER: Thanks.

BANFIELD: By the way, CNN's got some great post debate coverage starting at 11:00 with that guy, my colleague. Anderson Cooper's going to wrap up all the highlights. So if you don't catch the debate, catch Anderson. He'll give you all the high points, low points, everything else.

Coming up next hour, we're also going to hear from Republican Party Chairman Reince Priebus. That should be interesting as well given all of the kerfuffle over debate strategies and who's going to be there and who wasn't going to be there right after the last one. And then you heard what Brian said, you've got to wait five weeks for the next one if you miss tonight's, or - or if you're that keen on debates, the next Democrats' next debate is Saturday night, this Saturday in Iowa. So make your plans, get your babysitter.

And all of this just as a new poll is coming out today in a key southern state, South Carolina. It shows that Hillary Clinton is holding a commanding lead in that state. Among Democrats, a Monmouth University poll has Secretary Clinton with 69 percent of the vote. Senator Sanders is coming in at 21 percent of the vote. Martin O'Malley coming in at 1 percent of the vote there.

The strength is coming from Clinton's huge dominance of the black Democratic voter demo. Among those black voters, Clinton has 77 percent to Sanders' 12 percent. She also has a double-digit lead among white Democrats as well.

Coming up next, a funeral this hour that should not be happening because the little boy is just nine years old who's being remembered. He's the victim of a crime that Chicago's police superintendent says is the most cowardly act he's ever seen.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[12:27:10] BANFIELD: To Chicago now where a community marred by violence is in utter shock over a particularly brutal and senseless tragedy. The funeral is being held at this hour, and these are live pictures outside of the church. Inside, nine-year-old Tyshawn Lee is being remembered. That's Tyshawn there with his yellow polo shirt and his backpack, presumably on a school day. There's his family picture.

Police say that little boy was deliberately targeted, lured into an alley, and then shot almost point blank range, multiple times, in a gang retaliation. Gang retaliation. The allegations being that since his father had gang ties, this was something to get back at dad. Chicago's police superintendent calls this the most cowardly unfathomable crime that he has witnessed in his 35 years of policing.

Our Ryan Young is outside the church where that funeral is taking place.

Ryan, this is the kind of funeral that galvanizes a community, even a community that sometimes lives by a code of silence because that's what the police say is at foot here, a code of silence where no one's talking. Even the father of this dead child won't work with the police. Is the funeral, to your knowledge, making any headway at breaking that code?

RYAN YOUNG, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: You know, a tough question, and almost one that you try not to answer in anger to a certain extent. First, let me set the scene here. You see all the officers that are surrounding this area. There are - there are dozens of officers are surrounding this church. The families on the inside, the service has started.

You talk about that code of silence. You talk about the idea that maybe this community will galvanize behind this. Well, we haven't seen the community reaction here at the funeral so far. A lot of people believed there'd be large crowds here, but so far it seems like mostly family members who have arrived to remember Tyshawn Lee. And you look at this face, the fact that I'm holding a program where on the front of it there's a SpongeBob SquarePants. It kind of shows you the idea of what this young man - look at his face. Look at all the life that is in there. The idea that one of the things they mention inside this is that he loved Sour Patch Kids. You know, this is a kid who liked candy, liked playing basketball. There's no reason why we should be here outside talking about a funeral, talking about gang violence, but that's what it's come to.

In fact, a lot of people are talking about the code of silence that exists in this community. There's a $50,000-plus reward that's being offered right now for tips from the community to help do this, and so far that is not happening. In fact, some community activists are very angry about what's going on here in the community.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DEANDRE HAWTHORNE, COMMUNITY LEADER: I just leapt up out of this church, saw a nine-year-old boy lying in the casket. Where is the Black Lives Matter movement now? Black lives have to matter more than when cops are involved. But when black kills black, we need to see Black Lives Matter here in Chicago.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

[12:30:10] YOUNG: So we have the mayor on the inside. We know a congressman is also on the inside of this funeral. But there is