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ANDERSON COOPER 360 DEGREES
Donald Trump's New Promise on Illegal Immigration; Hillary Clinton Attacked By All Republican Presidential Candidate In Their Debate; Video Shows Officers Tasing Man Who Later Died. Aired 8-9p ET
Aired November 11, 2015 - 20:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[20:00:08] ANDERSON COOPER, CNN HOST: Good evening. Thanks for joining us.
We begin tonight with Donald Trump's promise to round up each and every one on the 11 million people who are in this country illegal with new specifics he laid out for doing it, a special deportation force he calls it and historical president that he says shows it can be done both effectively and humanely. Mr. Trump talking about it in Milwaukee during the debate.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Let me just tell you that Dwight Eisenhower, good president, great president, people liked him, I like Ike, right? The expression. I like Ike. Moved a million-and- a-half illegal immigrants out of this country. Dwight Eisenhower. You don't get nicer. You don't get friendlier. They moved a-million- and-a-half million people out. We have no choice. We have no choice.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: Some people can and do differ on his assessment of the problem. As for the solution, though, mass deportations and this belief that it worked the last time around there, we got facts and Tom Foreman tonight is keeping them honest.
TOM FOREMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Spurring protest and spiking poll numbers, tough talk about illegal immigration put Donald Trump on the election map.
TRUMP: They are bringing drugs. They are bringing crime. They are rapists.
FOREMAN: And now, he is praising a program whose official name considers what is currently considered an offensive slur, operation wet back. In 1954 this massive roundup of undocumented workers came after years of growing tension between the U.S. and Mexico about competition for workers, the effect on wages and boarder security.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: My fellow citizens.
FOREMAN: And while the Eisenhower administration considered the program a success due to a sharp spike in apprehensions of Mexicans, many modern historians like Douglas Brinkley do not.
DOUGLAS BRINKLEY, PRESIDENTIAL HISTORIAN: It was inhumane. It was abusive to Mexicans that came into the United States at our request to work during World War II.
FOREMAN: For starters, immigration enforcement claimed over a million deportations while later analysis suggested maybe only a quarter million, even as farm jobs in the southwest continue drawing tens of thousands of new immigrants. Humanitarian complaints were raised as some deportees were send back to Mexico aboard what a congressional investigation described as a slave ship.
BRINKLEY: Many of the Mexicans that were rounded up had their heads shaved, many were beaten and abused. There is incidents in 1955 of Mexicans that died in the desert because they were pushed out of the United States.
FOREMAN: Indeed, that summer 88 people died of heat stroke in a single episode. No wonder the blow back to Trump's ideas is strong.
GOV. JOHN KASICH (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: For the 11 million people, come on, folks, we all know you can't pick them up and ship them back across the border. It's a silly argument. It's not an adult argument.
FOREMAN: Despite claims at the time Ike's deportation plan was working, it was out of funding and shutting down, although the debate about it rages on more than a half century later - Anderson.
COOPER: Tom, thanks very much.
That's the backdrop. Now, let's talk about the details. Joining us is Trump national campaign co-chair and policy advisor Sam Clovis. Also, CNN political commentators Ana Navarro and Maria Cardona. Ana is a Jeb Bush supporter and friend of Marco Rubio. Maria is a Democratic strategist and 2008 Clinton's senior advisor.
Sam, great to have you on the program. Is it mistake you believe for Donald Trump to invoke what President Eisenhower did given how controversial it remains in some quarters in the history of this country?
SAM CLOVIS, TRUMP NATIONAL CAMPAIGN CO-HAIR, POLICY ADVISER: I think there are a couple things just to comment on that. I think it's a starting point. Starting point for the discussion on how we might go about the process of deporting the people that are here illegally. And I think that's really what we ought to be talking about is the historical context of that. The program actually lasted from 1954 to 1962. It tapered off dramatically after the first two years and that was accurate in that report there, as well. Then we started into the process of total revision there with the immigration and nationality act of 1965. That's a hard seller act, however you want to call it that Ted Kennedy championed. And that really effectively changed the way we immigrated people into this country. And then we have a current law that the immigration reform and control act of 1986 which was funded robustly for about three years had very dramatic impact on the amount of illegal immigration of this country, an average about 62,000 a year net. And then after the funding dried up and Congress decided to abandon that program, as well, then we started to see a huge spike in the annual immigration -- illegal immigration into this country and a lot of this has come back to the --
[20:05:13] COOPER: Sam --
CLOVIS: Don't have Congress -- let me finish. We don't have the congressional will to enforce this or to look at various models that we have here. Today's technology and with the way the media operates here, this whole notion that this would be done inhumanely is and would be ripping families out of their homes and separating fall -- families is utter nonsense and to stir up national reasoning and thinking how we would go about establishing the rule of law in this country again.
COOPER: Right. Maria, what about that? I mean, there is a lot of people, certainly in the GOP who say look, this has to be a nation of laws. These people are here illegally. You have to do something about it. What about this idea of deportation force?
MARIA CARDONA, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: I think it's a ridiculously stupid idea, frankly. And if the GOP continues to talk about this, they can say good-bye to any hope they have of getting to the White House in 2016, Anderson.
This is (INAUDIBLE) not just to the Latino community but to main stream Americans who understand how inhumane operation wet back was and who also understand the real solution actually lies in Congress today. You had a bipartisan gang of eight Senate bill that talked about the solution to this, which was to enforce our boarders, figure out a real way to have the workers come here that we need and then also to legalize those who have been here for years and years and years, Anderson, who had children contributing to the economy and these are the people that Donald Trump is going to essentially deport in, what, trains? Is he going to turn this country into a Gastapo (ph) state? So, it's not only unworkable but political suicide for Republicans.
CLOVIS: These are your words, those are not Donald Trump's words. Let's be very close on that. Those are your words. Those are not his.
CARDONA: So what are his words, then? How is he going to do it?
COOPER: We -- but we -- right. But we don't need to be comparing -- just for argument sake, we don't need to compare to Gastapo (ph) or not. I mean, let's try to just stick to facts here.
Anna, I mean, Jeb Bush is critical to Trump approach from the Republican side to illegal immigration. He said so again last night, so did John Kasich. You can't deny, though, that a hard line approach to this issue resonates with a lot of primary voters. ANA NAVARRO, REPUBLICAN STRATEGIST: I don't deny that and I think
it's what made Donald Trump very popular to begin with when he initially hit upon this top pick when in his speech where he called Mexicans rapists and went on about illegal immigration. And since then, I think he's realized that the more he hits the topic, the more popular he becomes with the base and energizes supporters. But I think in what he saw last night and it's important to note, is that there is a wide gap, a deep schism within the Republican Party when it comes to immigration solution.
Certainly, there is a faction that believe and support what Donald Trump is saying but there is also a faction that believe what folks like Marco Rubio, like Jeb Bush, like John Kasich are saying. So I don't think it's fair to paint the entire GOP with one broad brush.
And let me just tell you, Anderson, you know, this afternoon, today is veteran's day. And this afternoon I was walking through the Vietnam memorial and there are so many names when you go through there. There are so many names of the dead that are Hispanic names, immigrant names and, you know, and you have to think to yourself and wonder how many of those kids might have been undocumented or the children of undocumented immigrants. And yet, were willing to give their lives and serve this country and pay the ultimate sacrifice so we could live in freedom today.
There is something so hurtful about the idea of this wet back operation. The term itself is offensive. It is hurtful. And I think Mr. Trump is doing a lot of harm to the GOP brand in the long run. I wish he would really watch his words.
COOPER: Sam, I want to give you the final thought, just how -- are you concerned, though, about obviously there is, you know, there is a primary election. But in a general election, hurting Donald Trump support among Latino voters. I mean, David Axelrod made the point about the need to get greater Hispanic support.
CLOVIS: I appreciate Ana's comments about veterans. And if you notice on the lapel of my jacket today, I don't normally do this but I'm wearing my command pilot wings and my jump wings from my 25 years of service to the United States. And I have the proudest years of my life. And so I want to thank all of my fellow veterans out there.
And to go on to finish up this comment, I think what we're really at a point here is we have brought this top pick up since the launch of the Trump campaign. And what we are now seeing and I thought last night was actually healthy because we actually had a very open and frank discussion on that stage about immigration in this country. And I think that's really, really the point that ought to be made here is that there is, that we have the contrasting issues here, the rule of law and then whether or not we're going to establish the rule of law and enforce the laws that we have on the books. And are there not mechanisms to establish the rule of law in the country as far as immigration is concerned. And I think that's what we're after. That's what we're after here, reestablishment and rule of law in this country rather than arbitrary executive orders. We have changed the law, circumvent the Congress and actually undermine the constitution. I don't think anybody can argue with that.
[20:11:03] NAVARRO: We all agree on the need of rule of law. And we all agree on the need for secure borders. Where we disagree as I'm going back to a horrific program that did nothing but hurt people and violates civil rights.
CLOVIS: Those are your words.
NAVARRO: Yes, they are my words. Those are exactly my words. And let me remind you, Sam, that you used to support Rick Perry who understood this very, very, well. Even supported the dream act.
CARDONA: And even Regan, that many Republican candidates talked about last night, Regan passed the 1986 amnesty law.
CLOVIS: No, he did not. And if you ask Ronald Reagan, he will tell you -- if you remember, the two greatest often talked about the two greatest mistakes he ever made in his life was signing the abortion legislation in California and the 1986 immigration law. Those were the two biggest political mistakes he made in his career and that's documented and you can look it up.
CARDONA: And yet, Republicans continue to bring up his name.
COOPER: Appreciate it. We appreciate the discussion. Good discussion.
Sam, as your point was made, I do think last night it is a good discussion to have. And I think it was one of the highlights of the debate certainly last night to get the different positions out there.
Sam Clovis, appreciate it you being with us and especially on this Veterans Day. Thanks for taking time. And Maria Cardona, Ana Navarro as well.
It illegal immigration highlighted some difference between the candidates, the name Hillary Clinton certainly did not. Nearly all the candidates went after her last night as you might expect. Which Republican front runners would do best against her? We are going to take a look closely at the numbers with John King on that.
Also ahead, what began with police taking this man to the hospital, ended up with him dead following jolt after jolt with a taser as he plead with them to stop. The question is, why didn't they?
[20:16:04] COOPER: Well, welcome back.
The Republican candidates certainly don't agree on everything. However, in last night's debate, each and every one of them agreed on one thing or more, precisely, one person.
SEN. TED CRUZ (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: If you look at foreign policy, every region on the world has gotten worse. Under her leadership, we abandoned the nation of Israel. Under her leadership, radical Islamic terrorism has been on the rise.
JEB BUSH (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Hillary Clinton said that Barack Obama's policies get an A. Really?
GOV. CHRIS CHRISTIE (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Wait this will you see what Hillary Clinton will do this to country and how she will drawn us in debt.
KASICH: She will be a disaster if she got elected.
CHRISTIE: Hillary Clinton is coming for your wallet, everybody.
TRUMP: The worst secretary of state in the history of our country.
CARLY FIORINA (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: The Clinton presidency will corrode the character of this nation.
GOV. BOBBY JINDAL (R), LOUISIANA: We all agree Hillary Clinton is bad.
CRUZ: Hillary Clinton embodies the cronies of Washington.
FIORINA: Imagine a Clinton presidency, our military will continue to deteriorate. Our veterans will not be cared for and no, Mrs. Clinton, that situation is not exaggerated.
COOPER: So we wanted to look tonight at how they would match up to Hillary Clinton in a general election. There is new polling and chief national correspondent John King is breaking down by the numbers for us.
So John, if Clinton is the Democratic presidential nominee, which seems likely, how does she pair against the leading Republican candidates?
JOHN KING, CNN CHIEF NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: There are a number of different polls depending on the candidate, Anderson. I would say this, generally look for a competitive general election regardless who is it versus Clinton.
But look at this, in the (INAUDIBLE) poll recently, she beats Trump quite handedly. Quinnipiac poll, she beats Trump more narrowly. NBC/"Wall Street Journal" poll, she beats Trump again. The average of the last five or six polls, Hillary Clinton beats Donald Trump by about four points.
Ben Carson runs more competitive than Donald Trump. Plus two, Clinton wins in the poll and (INAUDIBLE) poll. She loses by ten to Ben Carson in the Quinnipiac poll. It's a tie in the NBC/"Wall Street Journal." Again, if you average them all out, Ben Carson beats Hillary Clinton by an average four points right now in the national polls. Marco Rubio, fairly similar. Plus five in the (INAUDIBLE) for
Clinton. That's a statistical dead heat. Minus five in Quinnipiac. You get the picture. Very competitive as well. And NBC/"Wall Street Journal" Rubio essentially in a statistical dead heat with Hillary Clinton right now.
And if you are wondering, Jeb Bush poll is about the same as Marco Rubio. Hillary Clinton fairs a little better against Ted Cruz. Plus ten in one poll. Plus six if you average them out.
So, if you look at the pictures right now, Cruz and Trump are weaker. Rubio and Carson and Bush, very competitive.
COOPER: And digging deeper, what are the general election strengths and her vulnerabilities?
KING: One of the reasons Hillary Clinton wants to wrap up the nomination early, Anderson, is she does has some weaknesses. Let's go get one strength first, the gender gap. She would be the first woman president. Look at these numbers against Trump. A huge gender gap, plus 26, plus 20, plus 21. That's a huge Trump liability, a Clinton asset in the general election.
Against Dr. Carson, plus 12 in one of the polls but she actually breaks even with him in the Quinnipiac poll. Plus nine in the NBC/"Wall Street Journal" poll. Just for history, Barack Obama won the women's vote over Mitt Romney by 11 points. So, if you're Hillary Clinton and you are plus nine and plus 11, you think you should do better than Barack Obama did. So while it's a strength, it's not as good of a strength, not as big as it should be.
A weakness for Hillary Clinton, independent. Yes, she beats Donald Trump pretty handedly among independents here. But if you look through this otherwise, and again and this one here, Carson, Hillary Clinton loses by 25 points to Ben Carson among independents in one poll. But if you look at the different polling numbers, she is losing to the Republicans. Hillary Clinton among independents. Again, Barack Obama lost to Mitt Romney among independents by five points. So if you're looking at a deficit of 13-7, what you don't want to do if you are Hillary Clinton is under perform Barack Obama against the Republican.
One more quick one, if you look on non-white voters, this say huge Hillary Clinton strength. Among African-Americans, look at this. She beats Trumps by 89 points. She beats Carson by 86 points. In the NBC/"Wall Street Journal" poll, Rubio by 89. This is exactly where President Obama was among African-Americans.
So she is holding the Obama coalition here. A bit of a weakness here, this is where Obama was where Clinton runs against Trump among Latinos. Carson and Rubio do a little bit better. Hillary Clinton still beats them handily among Latinos, but President Obama won by about 44, 46 points in this range. So, if you're Hillary Clinton and looking at these numbers, they are good. They might like to make them better, Anderson.
[20:20:18] COOPER: John, thanks very much.
There is plenty to talk about with our panel which tonight include as guy who has been wondering why all these candidates are dropping Hillary Clinton's name but not his, he of course is Paul Begala. He runs a pro-Clinton super Pac. He is also a CNN political commentator along with Amanda Carpenter, former communications director for Senator Ted Cruz and former Reagan White House political director Jeffrey Lord who is a Donald Trump supporter.
So Paul, haven't heard from you since last night's debate. When you hear those hypothetical matchups that John King lays out, do you worry about any of the numbers you see?
PAUL BEGALA, DEMOCRATIC STRATEGIST: No, it's just too soon. It is. I mean, what that polling shows is that Dr. Carson would be the post vulnerable candidates against Secretary Clinton, maybe so. And I don't mean any disrespect. He is an impressive man. He is really doing remarkably well among Republicans now. I tend to be a skeptic that he is actually going to be able to defeat Hillary. But if he is beating her in the polls now, so be it. This is so, so early. We actually have to get on the track.
I was struck last night. It is part of that was a package we had. But Hillary's campaign put out a video, 40-plus times they named her last night. And the debate about the economy, it is like that Hillary Clinton over 40 times, by the way, only used the phrase middle class eight. So I think we know what their obsession is. It's kind of creepy in a stalker sort of way, maybe it's affection, I don't know. Maybe they are like junior high schoolboys that just can't stop talking about her.
COOPER: but Amanda, I mean, to that point, doesn't that rally people -- conservatives who want to come out to the polls? I mean, we seen Dr. Carson polling strongest against Hillary Clinton. But in terms of motivating people to come out to vote, Hillary Clinton seems to be a big motivation.
AMANDA CARPENTER, FORMER COMMUNICATIONS DIRECTOR FOR SEN. TED CRUZ: Yes, absolutely. And it makes sense to talk about her a lot. She is the presumptive Democratic nominee. It's sort of ridiculous to think that Bernie Sanders would overtake her. She is going to be the nominee most likely. It makes sense for them to attack her and define her. And look, consistently among the polls, we see voters find her untrustworthy. She has trouble with likability, honesty. These are really, really big, big deals. I don't know how you heal that over time.
But that said, one thing that's interesting, you know, we can look at head-to-head matchups, but we also have to look at issues. And looking at the Republican debate and Democratic debate, there is actually one Saturday night although they won't get millions of viewers that people have been tuning into the Republican debate which says a lot. But it is like we're living two different worlds. I mean, Republican debates you talk about the economy, foreign policy, immigration and Democrats talking about minimum wage, climate change. I mean, they don't matchup. And so, I'm really curious to see how a general election goes because
we're having two entirely different conversations among Republicans and Democrats.
COOPER: Jeffrey, I mean for the criticism of Donald Trump or that Trump levees at Hillary Clinton, he is polling, I mean, he has also to Amanda's point, high negatives. And you know, is in some ways just as controversial and maybe just as polarizing.
JEFFREY LORD, FORMER REAGAN WHITE HOUSE POLITICAL DIRECTOR: Yes, well, you know, it always pains me to find myself in agreement with my friend Paul. However, he is absolutely correct that it's way too soon here to be focusing on these polls in terms of the general election.
I decided I think before December of 1979 poll that showed Jimmy Carter, in "The New York Times" by the Carter White House, I might add, that shows Jimmy Carter beating Ronald Reagan something like 60 to 36 percent with Pat (INAUDIBLE) then the pollster for president Carter saying the data was just overwhelmingly in favor of Carter and they couldn't wait to run against Regan.
So here we are, almost in December of the year before, you know, next November it is just way too soon to get into this. And by the time let's just say it is Donald Trump versus Hillary Clinton, then people are going to start to focus. They both have their negatives. But with one choice to make, people are going to have to vote from one of them in a situation can change drastically.
COOPER: You know, Paul, talking to Amanda last night like, I don't know, 12:00 or 1:00 a.m., it was quite a late night for us all, I don't know how you got out of that. But one of the things she said is she believes, you know, very possibly Trump and Carson will fade. And we are going to see, you know, one of these other candidates coming up to be the eventual actual nominee, perhaps. Do you think that still is likely? I mean, history shows outsiders tend to fade generally there is an establishment candidate who becomes the nominee.
BEGALA: Well, in the post Regan era, right, Regan was the outsider and was obviously about to win the nomination but won two landslides. After Reagan, though, the Republicans have reliably nominated the person who wins the establishment bracket. There is always an outsider, sometimes, you know, Pat Buchanan. Sometimes even (INAUDIBLE).
It's not my party. So it is likely me being wrong is pretty close to 100 percent. But it seems to me the all power is in the insurgent bracket this time. The outside of bracket, I mean, people Republican establishment types who I know in Washington, they are very excited about Senator Rubio and Governor Kasich and Governor Christie, Jeb Bush, and them all together, they still don't add up to either Trump or Carson.
So I do think, maybe they fade if they do. I still believe this. It is not just some sucking up to Amanda. Her old boss Ted Cruz, he is the guy actually I might bet on if I were seriously going to put money on it because he could unite the outsider wing and maybe do well enough with the few establishment people.
CARPENTER: You made his argument for him. I would never have thought that would happen.
BEGALA: He is a former -- I'm from Texas so he steam rolled that state. He's really, really talented guy.
CARPENTER: I do want to throw something into this debate. You know, this kind of last night we talked a lot about how Republicans have to do more work to get the Hispanic vote. And I have been thinking today, you know, if it does indeed come down to a Cruz, Rubio race you have two leading Hispanics who will be able to carry a strong conservative message on immigration. That's something that has never been tested among the Republican Party. And I feel like the Democrats going into this election can play the, you know, racial and gender identity cards. The Republican Party has more Hispanics, more women, more black on the stage alone than it ever before. And so, I think it's a huge opportunity to just change that game entirely.
COOPER: Yes. It is interesting point.
CARPENTER: And we'll have some surprises.
BEGALA: They have more minority women candidates than they have minority in women voters. That's their problem.
COOPER: Amanda Carpenter, Paul Begala, Jeffrey Lord, al, thank you very much.
Coming up next, Donald Trump's likely biggest supporter, his wife Milania Trump who has been mostly silent until now. We will tell you how Mrs. Trump is changing the way she is standing by her husband and what influence she's having with his campaign.
COOPER: Until now, Melania Trump has been the woman quietly standing by her husband's side as he moves forward to the top of the GOP field there. She was last night on this program watching closely as Donald Trump fielded the questions from our Dana Bash following the debate. It was a similar scene two weeks ago in the spin room. It's just after the CNBC debate. There she is again just off her husband's shoulder. She's often seen, but not so often heard. The question is what role is Melania Trump playing behind the scenes? Randi Kaye tonight takes a look.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
RANDI KAYE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Super model turned super supporter to GOP presidential candidate Donald Trump suddenly fielding questions in the post-debate spin room.
MELANIA TRUMP: A great evening, yes. Just the way it was handled was very fair and elegant and the fair questions and all about the economy and business and he's master at that. KAYE: After months of keeping his third wife out of the spotlight,
Melania Trump is at his side on the campaign trail and she's talking more than we've ever heard her before. In September, she did talk to "People", sharing how when she and Donald first met in 1998, she refused to give him her number, even though she thought Donald did have, quote, sparkle. When "People magazine" interviewed Melania Trump, politics was off the table. "I'm not ready to go political yet. That's his job and I'm supporting him." She told Larry King years ago she considers herself her husband's equal.
MELANIA TRUMP: You know, you need to know who you are and you need to be very strong and smart.
KAYE: Melania once graced the covers of glamour magazines and sold her own line of jewelry on QVC. Her name is trademarked.
MELANIA TRUMP: You make them feel special, you make them feel elegant.
KAYE: She also appeared in this AFLAC commercial. She's a Slovenian immigrant who became a naturalized citizen in 2006. When asked by "People" about becoming a citizen, her response was, it didn't even cross my mind to just stay here. I think people should follow the law. If they do reach the White House, Melania would be the first foreign born first lady since John Quincy Adams' wife who was born about 200 years before Melania Trump.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: And Randi joins us now tonight. What else do we know about her?
KAYE: Well, Anderson, we know that she enjoys fashion, she plays tennis, she does Pilates, she also does some work with the American Red Cross, and of course, as you know, she and Donald Trump have a son, a 9-year-old Barron. So, he keeps her pretty busy. The couple reportedly does not have a full-time nanny. So she does have her hands full with him on most date. But Anderson, the question really is, what would her hobby be or what would her cause be if she were to become first lady? We've all heard Donald Trump on the campaign trail say she would be a terrific first lady, she'd be a great first lady, but she hasn't really answered that question. "People Magazine" asked her and she said you know what, it's a long road ahead. I'm just going to take this day by day, Anderson.
COOPER: Well, that's a wise answer. Randi, thanks very much.
Just ahead, a nine-year-old boy gunned down execution style has become another heartbreaking victim in Chicago's Southside gun violence epidemic. Happens to be the focus of Spike Lee's new film. I'm going to talk to Spike Lee ahead, and also to Father Michael Pfleger who's worked for years to try to make Chicago's streets safer.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK) COOPER: Tonight, we're in Chicago where there is fresh outrage over the gun violence that has been out of control for years and is only getting worse. The little boy in this picture should be at home tonight with his family because nine-year-old children like Tyshawn Lee should be able to walk to the park to play basketball and get home safely when they are done playing.
In cities and towns across the country that isn't an unreasonable expectation, in fact, that is a norm. Not on the south side of Chicago, though. And this was no random shooting. Police in Chicago say Tyshawn Lee was intentionally targeted because of his father's alleged association with the local gang.
COOPER: This is how it ended for Tyshawn Lee, a crowded church, a small casket, this is how it ends for too many of Chicago's black children. A sickening crime, a nine-year-old victim, yet again sadness and anger on Chicago's south side.
FATHER MICHAEL PFLEGER, SAINT SABINA CHURCH: Our children have a right to walk our streets! Our children have a right to expect to be safe wherever they are in the city of Chicago! Our children deserve that!
COOPER: Father Michael Pfleger led the funeral service.
PFLEGER: Tyshawn was not in the wrong place, the murderer, the executioner, the assassin, he was in the wrong place at the wrong time. Tyshawn was doing what every child has a right to do, be a child.
COOPER: Father Pfleger has helped raise a reward for information about who killed Tyshawn Lee, but as so often happens, few people want to talk to the police.
SUPERINTENDENT GARRY MCCARTHY, CHICAGO POLICE: There is fear. This is a different level of something that we're involved in. These are non-combatants now being assassinated.
COOPER: Police say Tyshawn was lured here into this alley and shot multiple times in the face and back.
While authorities still haven't made any arrests, they believe the fourth grader was intentionally targeted because his father has ties to a gang in conflict with another gang.
This year alone there have been around 400 murders in Chicago and even more horrific rate than last year when they had the most homicides of any city in America. Now filmmaker Spike Lee hopes to focus attention on the killings, he's directed a new film called "Chiraque."
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Welcome to Chiraque! COOPER: It's a title, a term coined by local rappers, is a melding of Chicago and Iraq. Many who live on Chicago South Side, say it feels like a war zone.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Homicides in Chicago, Illinois surpassed the death toll of American Special Forces in Iraq.
COOPER: Father Michael Pfleger has been working closely with Spike Lee and actor John Cusack plays a fire-brand priest very much like him. Today, I sat down with both Spike Lee and Father Pfleger in the same Chicago church where Tyshawn Lee was mourned.
(on camera): You feel like a line has been crossed, although I wonder, how many times have you said that, that a line has been crossed?
FATHER MICHAEL PFLEGER: Now, I've never said this - Children can - been shot and killed before. There is no question about it, here and across America, but when you target a child and shoot and kill him is a different thing. On the street there was a code, you didn't touch children, somebody's mother and somebody's grandmother.
SPIKE LEE, DIRECTOR: Elders, too.
PFLEGER: And elders. You just didn't touch the elders and children. And so, for this to happen, you know, not only crosses the line, it takes away all the boundaries and is this going to become a new normal?
COOPER: Do you see it just getting worse?
PFLEGER: Yeah, I do. Unfortunately, what I see right now is so dangerous to me because with social media being what it is, there doesn't even to have be true to evidence to why you are after somebody. Somebody says something on Facebook and all of a sudden, I'm going to respond to it.
LEE: Anderson, I did not know about that until I got here and through Father Pfleger, I met two of his peace keepers and they told me that social media is a major element of violence where people post stuff on Instagram, Twitter, or Facebook and people respond to it, not by typing out something on their phones but by bang, bang, bang.
COOPER: Why do you, Spike, wanting to come here?
LEE: Well, number one, I care about human beings. And what was happening in Chicago is happening in Brooklyn, where I'm from, Boogie Down Bronx, Killadelphia, Body More Maryland, as you know, New Orleans, Houston, South Central. But my wife Tonya really gave me -- made it crystal clear. Chicago is the canary in the coal mine. New York City has three times the population of Chicago, yet, Chicago has more homicides than New York. So this is the -- this is the spot. This is the ground zero, and I've always been a believer and I'll go to my grave believing this, Anderson, that art can effect change. Good and bad. COOPER: What do you think it is about here that makes it so bad?
PFLEGER: All I can say is there's a growing hopelessness that I've seen over the last number of years, that is at a level that I've never seen before, and a sense that nothing is changing. How do you keep at it when the national landmarks in your neighborhood are not new businesses or Frank Lloyd Wright buildings but teddy bears and yellow police tape and balloons?
COOPER: Memorials? Makeshift memorials?
PFLEGER: Yes. And part of high school graduations are remembering students that would have been in that class that got killed. When did that become a norm that that's part of our graduation ceremony? A chair draped. These are children. We've got to become angry as a country and decide we're going to have the courage to answer the root causes of this cancer and not just the wound on the skin.
COOPER: Tomorrow night on "360," we'll talk more with Father Pfleger and Spike Lee about the root causes and what is happening here. We'll also talk about the controversy the film sparked in city hall, and Chicago's mayor not happy about the title of it, we'll talk to Spike about that, and the next night on "360" we'll talk to mothers who have lost children here in Chicago, and their strength is extraordinary. I hope you tune in for that on Friday night.
Coming up right now, newly released videos that show in graphic detail a Virginia man being tased by police officers while handcuffed. He later died. Tonight there are now questions about whether these images could lead to charges.
COOPER: Tonight, newly released video showing graphic details, the minutes leading up to the death of a Virginia man while in police custody. It shows the officers tazing him over and over in front of a hospital where they had taken him for medical help. He never made it inside. Instead the officers fired their tasers repeatedly at him while he was in handcuffs. This happened two years ago. No charges had ever been filed against the officers. The videos are only now coming to light as a result of a wrongful death lawsuit. Deborah Feyerick tonight has details.
DEBORAH FEYERICK, CNN CORRESPONDENT: 46-year-old Linwood Lambert was allegedly acting strange when South Boston, Virginia, police decided to get him checked out at a local emergency room.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We're not locking you up. What we're doing here is we're going to take you to the emergency room, going to get you looked at and make sure you're good to go. FEYERICK: During the ride police shows Lambert becomes increasingly
agitated, and as the squad car pulls into the ER.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Don't kick your window. Don't kick your window. Stop kicking the window. Stop kicking the window. Calm down!
FEYERICK: Lambert, his hands cuffed behind the back, kicks out the patrol car window and sprints towards the emergency room ramming the sliding doors.
Three officers draw their tasers and appear to make contact. Lambert falls forward.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Get on your belly!
FEYERICK: Instead of having him evaluated by doctors, the police put him back in the squad car, and when he fails to sit up, he's allegedly tased again in the neck. By the time officers arrive at the detention center several minutes away, Lambert is unresponsive. It's unclear how many times he was tased. Police call paramedics, who begin CPR. As they get to the hospital, according to court records, Lambert is in quote "full cardiac respiratory arrest," intubated and connected to auto pulse. Paramedics and doctors are unable to resuscitate him and he's pronounced dead.
An autopsy report lists three punctures, suggestive of taser bar sites, on the right and left flanks. The cause of death is listed as acute cocaine intoxication, and the manner of death is listed as accident. South Boston police say the use of tasers is appropriate when someone becomes violent, threatens property, or puts others at risk. Federal guidelines say police must be trained to understand that repeated use of tasers may increase risk of death or serious injury, and should be avoided.
The family has filed a $25 million lawsuit, accusing police of using excessive, unreasonable and deadly force, saying they violated Lambert's civil rights. A statement from lawyers representing the officers says the police did nothing wrong in their interaction with the late Mr. Lambert, and that their actions did not cause his death.
Deborah Feyerick, CNN, New York.
COOPER: And as Deborah pointed out, at this point we do not know exactly how many times Mr. Lambert was tased. CNN reached out to the South Boston police and the Virginia State Police earlier today and haven't gotten a response. And we should point out, it's a holiday, Veterans Day as well. Joining us now is CNN legal analyst and former federal prosecutor Sunny Hostin, also CNN law enforcement analyst and former NYPD detective Harry Houck. Harry, the police department says the officers didn't use excessive force here, do you agree? HARRY HOUCK, CNN LAW ENFORCEMENT ANALYST: Up to a certain extent. As
far as when they got to the hospital and he was trying to break through the glass, I think that the force was adequate at that time. I don't think I would have used two tasers on the guy. It looked like at one point maybe there would be three. I think that would be a little too much. Once they got his legs shackled, it should have stopped. This is where the officers made their mistake. They were at the hospital. All they had to do, and I had done this many a times when I worked the street, is tell the hospital to come out with a gurney, put that man on a gurney, and strap him to the gurney and take him in. It's very clear this man was having some kind of a psychological event. He's not a typical perp who is resisting arrest because he's trying to get away from the police. This man has got a psychological problem, and it's very clear to me they should have took that man into the hospital and should have never brought him back to the jail.
COOPER: Sunny, as you watch this, you know, obviously, you watch him in the back of a police car getting tased repeatedly and his hands and legs are bound. What do you make of what you see?
SUNNY HOSTIN, FORMER FEDERAL PROSECUTOR: Anderson, I think this is one of the rare times Harry and I agree here. The initial tazing seems appropriate to me. You have someone that is shackled, someone who is running away, running into an emergency room that may have other people that could be in danger if he's having a psychotic event. That makes sense. But it is very clear under the federal guidelines and quite frankly, it's very clear under the South Boston police department guidelines, that you can't -- the taser use is excessive or inappropriate when you have someone that has been shackled and is being detained. He was shackled and they continued to tase him. Now while we don't know how many times he's been tased, at least in the civil suit they are alleging over 20 times in the span of half an hour. We know from Taser International, at least from the civil suit, those tasers were deployed at least 20 times over a 30, you know, 30- minute period. We just don't know how many times they made contact. But even if they made contact half of the time, let's say ten times, it's still per se excessive force.
What is infuriating to me however is the fact that the prosecutor's office has had this investigation open since 2013 and no charges have been filed. The investigation is not completed, and in fact, the three officers have been promoted. That seems to me to be just such a disservice to justice in this case.
HOUCK: Right. Anderson --
COOPER: It's also interesting, Harry, because he was not under arrest until he broke the window. I mean, as you said, he was clearly having, whether it was drug induced or psychological, you know, event.
He clearly was talking to the officers while he was in the car, he was afraid they were taking him somewhere or punishing him. But he wasn't under arrest and hadn't technically done anything wrong until he broke the window and ran away, and that's when they placed him under arrest, right?
HOUCK: Right. That's okay. You can place somebody under arrest while they are on a gurney and keep them in the hospital. Another issue here is when he was in the backseat of that radio car, there was no reason to tase that man in the back seat of that radio car. At all. He was shackled and he was down on the ground. They were going to transport him, just take him to the jail.
COOPER: Harry Houck, appreciate you being on, Sunny Hostin as well, and we'll continue to follow this. As we said, there is a wrongful death suit. We'll be right back.
COOPER: Well, that does it for us. Thanks very much for watching. Up next, go inside America's busiest coroner's office on a new episode of "This is Life with Lisa Ling."