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RNC Chair Praises Fox Business for Debate; Inside Debate Night Body Language. Aired 9-9:30a ET
Aired November 11, 2015 - 09:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[09:00:01] CUOMO: Yes. He comes every year.
PEREIRA: Love it.
CUOMO: He plays like four songs. And he tells bad jokes. And huge comedians come. You saw Stewart there, Ray Romano, John Oliver, Seth Meyers who killed. They were all great last night and all for the cause. The red carpet is all Wounded Warriors.
CAMEROTA: Incredible. It's a great event. Great, great stuff. Thanks for sharing it with us.
PEREIRA: All right. With that on this Veterans Day, we'll hand it over to Carol Costello in the "NEWSROOM." Hi, Darling.
CAROL COSTELLO, CNN ANCHOR: All right. Thanks all. Have a great day. NEWSROOM starts now.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
COSTELLO: Happening now in the NEWSROOM, wages.
SEN. MARCO RUBIO (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Welders make more money than philosophers.
COSTELLO: Immigration.
DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: We need borders. We will have a wall. The wall will be built. The wall will be successful.
COSTELLO: America's role in the world.
JEB BUSH (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: We are not going to be world's policemen. But we sure as heck better be the world's leader.
COSTELLO: And no time for rest. The GOP candidates back on the trail this morning.
Also, American investigators called in to help figure out what happened in the Metrojet crash. As CNN sources reveal new specifics about who may have planted that bomb and how it works.
Plus --
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You need to get out. UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I actually don't.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: All right. Hey, who wants to help me get this reporter out of here?
COSTELLO: So much for freedom of the press. A journalism professor blocking a student reporter from covering the protest at Mizzou. Now her job is on the line.
Let's talk. Live in the CNN NEWSROOM.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
COSTELLO: And good morning, I'm Carol Costello. Thank you so much for joining me.
Marco Rubio and Ted Cruz stand out and Donald Trump scales back. The candidates throwing plenty of punches on policy during last night's GOP debate. One of the biggest targets? Hillary Clinton.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BUSH: Hillary Clinton has said that Barack Obama's policies get an A. Really? One in 10 people right now aren't working or have given up all together as you said. That's not an A.
GOV. JOHN KASICH (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: When the fall comes and we run against Hillary, it will be a disaster if she got elected.
DR. BEN CARSON (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Bernie Sanders and Hillary Clinton won't tell you that that's the thing that's really hurting the middle class.
RUBIO: And around the world every day brings news of a new humiliation for America. Many the direct -- direct consequence of decisions made when Hillary Clinton was the secretary of state.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COSTELLO: Hillary Clinton clearly unfazed by it, tweeting, quote, "Times Republicans offered helpful ideas for middle class? Zero. Times Republicans attacked Hillary, we lost count." Hashtag GOP debate. And even though there were fewer candidates on stage there were still plenty of fireworks when it came to hot-button issues like immigration, national security and raising the minimum wage.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DR. BEN CARSON (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Every time we raise the minimum wage, the number of jobless people increases.
RUBIO: If you raise the minimum wage you're going to make people more expensive than a machine.
KASICH: I would like the comment.
BUSH: You've already made two comments, John. It's my turn.
MARIA BARTIROMO, FBN DEBATE MODERATOR: We have more questions for you, Governor Kasich, coming up. We have more questions for you, Governor Kasich.
(CROSSTALK)
KASICH: I got about four minutes last debate. I'm going to get my question right now.
NEIL CAVUTO, FBN DEBATE MODERATOR: Are you worried your campaign, which you have always said, sir, is bigger than you is now being hurt by you?
CARSON: First of all, thank you for not asking me what I said in the 10th grade. I appreciate that. I have no problem with being vetted. What I do have a problem with is being lied about.
(CROSSTALK)
TRUMP: You should let Jeb speak.
KASICH: We have grown --
TRUMP: No, but it's on this side. I don't have to hear from this man. Believe me.
BUSH: Thank you, Donald, for allowing me to speak at the debate. That's really nice of you. Really appreciate that.
RUBIO: You know, it took the telephone 75 years to reach a hundred million users. It took Candy Crush one year to reach 100 million users.
SEN. TED CRUZ (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Well, my mom is here so I don't think we should be pushing any grannies off cliffs.
CARLY FIORINA (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: The secret sauce of America is innovation and entrepreneurship.
RUBIO: Rand is a committed isolationist. I'm not. I believe the world is a stronger and a better place when the United States as the strongest military power in the world.
SEN. RAND PAUL (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Marco, Marco, Marco. How is it conservative -- how is it conservative to add a trillion dollar expenditure for the federal government --
BUSH: Back to the question what we're dealing with in Iraq. When we pull back voids are filled.
TRUMP: If Putin wants to go in, and I got to know him very well because we were both on "60 Minutes." We were stable mates and we did very well that night. But you know that. But if Putin wants to go and knock the hell out of ISIS I am all for it 100 percent. FIORINA: But I would not be talking to Vladimir Putin right now,
although I have met him as well, not in a green room for a show but in a private meeting.
CAVUTO: By all means it was a riveting debate. Business issues can be -- can be riveting.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(LAUGHTER)
COSTELLO: And while many pundits agree Rubio and Cruz shined on stage, Donald Trump thinks he's the big winner, tweeting this. Quote, "Love doing the debate. Won Drudge and all online polls. Amazing evening. Moderators did an outstanding job."
[09:05:03] Today Trump is back on the campaign trail this time in New Hampshire to have breakfast with voters. Moments ago he weighed in on the debate.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: Eight people on the stage, which is nice. You know we had 10. We started off with 17. And one by one by one they are disappearing. Disappearing. It is a beautiful thing to watch as they go out. Oh, I love it. Every day another one goes out. Lots of problems, right? The biggest problem is they don't get the votes.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COSTELLO: OK. So let's bring in CNN's senior Washington correspondent Jeff Zeleny, he's on the campaign trail in New Hampshire. I'm also joined by chief political correspondent Dana Bash, she was at last night's debate in Milwaukee.
Welcome to both of you.
Thank you.
COSTELLO: So, Dana, what was the mood like in that room? Because it appeared to me the moderators didn't ask very challenging questions.
DANA BASH, CNN CHIEF POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, I think, and obviously that depends on who you're talking about. To me one of the most fascinating divides that was on display on that stage last night was on the issue of immigration. And, you know, you heard Donald Trump and John Kasich, for example, really get into it on whether or not it's feasible to take the 11 million or so undocumented immigrants and take them out of the country and deport them. And so, you know, they were going back and forth on that. And I asked John Kasich about it in the spin room afterwards. Listen to what he said.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BASH: I just want to start by asking you about your moment with Donald Trump. You were clearly itching to get in and talk about the fact that you believe that his idea of deporting the undocumented immigrants is pie in the sky.
KASICH: Well, we're not going to go and round people up, 11 million people, and drag them out of their homes and ship them across the border. It's an absurd thought. And it's these kinds of things really that frankly would give Hillary a great chance to be able to win. I think we're going to start to see them backing off.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BASH: And Carol, one of the reasons why I think that that was a very telling moment and exchange is because it wasn't just between John Kasich and Donald Trump. Jeb Bush got in on it, effectively echoing what John Kasich was saying that, you know, that Hillary Clinton and her campaign are doing high fives because the more the Republican Party talks about deporting illegal immigrants, the more Hispanic voters will go toward the Democratic side.
And then you heard Ted Cruz say, excuse me, it's just the opposite. Our problem is that we don't stick to principles. It was a classic case of the divide in the Republican Party and the divide within this field -- Carol.
COSTELLO: All right. So, Jeff Zeleny, you're out on the campaign trail, Donald Trump said in New Hampshire that he was the big winner last night. Was he?
JEFF ZELENY, CNN SENIOR WASHINGTON CORRESPONDENT: Well, Carol, he's speaking behind me right now at the Politics and Eggs event. It's a traditional New Hampshire event. But I can tell you this is Trump- sized event. Some 650 people here at least.
He receded a bit into the background last night during the debate. But not today. He's taking a very confident victory lap. We heard him say just a few moments ago, he was relishing the fact that his rivals are disappearing one by one by one. So I think we're about to see Donald Trump as we saw before the debate. Sort of unplugged and eager to go after his rival candidates. So when you talk to New Hampshire voters one thing I'm struck by they're still largely undecided. At least a lot of them are undecided. So many to pick from here.
But between now and the next debate, the CNN debate on December 15th, they are going to continue to wither their choices. So we'll try and catch up with Donald Trump after this and let's see what's next for him. He'll be flying to Iowa tomorrow and continuing a pretty aggressive campaign schedule.
COSTELLO: All right, Jeff Zeleny, reporting live from New Hampshire. And thanks to Dana Bash as well.
It was a polished performance for Senator Ted Cruz. Some of the most memorable moments when he talked about the U.S. tax code and his position on immigration.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) CRUZ: The current system isn't fair. Washington is fundamentally corrupt. There are more words in the IRS code than there are in the bible. And not a one of them is as good. Every one of them reflects a carve out or a subsidy and it is all about empowering the Washington cartel.
I understand that when the mainstream media covers immigration it doesn't often see it as an economic issue. The politics of it would be very, very different if a bunch of lawyers or bankers were crossing the Rio Grande, or if a bunch of people with journalism degrees were coming over and driving down the wages in the press.
And I will say for those of us who believe people ought to come to this country legally and we should enforce the law, we're tired of being told it's anti-immigrant. It's offensive.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COSTELLO: Joining me now to talk about this, Rick Tyler, he's the national spokesperson for Cruz for President.
Thank you so much for being here.
[09:10:02] RICK TYLER, NATIONAL SPOKESPERSON, CRUZ FOR PRESIDENT: Good morning.
COSTELLO: Need I ask you who you thought won the debate?
TYLER: I think Senator Cruz had a wonderful night and I clearly think he won the debate. And there was really a dividing line between those who really had their policy chops and those who didn't. And I have to say it wasn't the frontrunners. Ted Cruz stood out among the candidates who knew his stuff about immigration, about taxation, growing the economy, creating jobs. Anything that they threw at him, Senator Cruz had the answers so we're just thrilled about the performance.
COSTELLO: Let's talk about that for just a second because Ben Carson didn't exactly give riveting answers when asked about the economy or foreign policy. Why did no one challenge him on that?
TYLER: Well, you'd have to ask the moderators that. We were just pleased that every Senator Cruz got a chance -- an opportunity to speak the people could see that he understood what he was talking about on immigration. He's in line with the Republican Party and what they want to do in immigration and that's to secure the border and follow the law. He's in line with the Republican Party who wants to grow jobs, grow the economy and how you do that.
COSTELLO: Right. I understand.
TYLER: Yes, go ahead.
COSTELLO: I'm just curious, I want to go back to Ben Carson for just a minute. He spoke the least amount of time, only nine minutes. He was pretty quiet. Again, is it -- is it too politically dangerous to attack Ben Carson or to even challenge him on things that he says that don't make sense?
TYLER: Well, Senator Cruz has attacked no one during this race. What he's tried to do is to put forth his policies and what he believes should be done. And people can see the contrast. They can understand.
What the Republican Party wants is an outsider. They're tired of politicians who go to Washington and don't keep their promises and there's really only one original outsider, if you will, on the stage who's gone to Washington and stood up to the Washington cartel, stood up against Democrats and actually stood up against his own party on any number of issues from immigration to Obamacare to gun control and that's Senator Ted Cruz. No one else -- everybody can say they'll be an outsider. Everybody can that they'll stand up to the Washington cartel.
(CROSSTALK)
COSTELLO: No, no, I think --
TYLER: But there's only one who has.
COSTELLO: I agree to you to a large extent. And I wanted to ask you about that. Because Senator Cruz is even a pariah among Senate Republicans. They actually refuse to work with him. And that's great for his outsider cred. But if Ted Cruz can't work with Republicans or Democrats, how can he effectively be president?
TYLER: Actually it's not true. If you look at Senator Cruz, Senator Cruz gets along with everybody. Just show me the clip. Show the quote where he has attacked his colleagues. It doesn't exist. He one time said --
COSTELLO: It's well known -- it's well know, Rick, that Senate Republicans, traditional Republicans, are not so much into Ted Cruz. They are upset at him.
TYLER: But it's -- well, you know why, because they like things the way they are. They like the power structure in Washington. They like the lobbyists that fund their campaigns. They don't want go back to their districts and work hard and actually win the vote. They actually just want to get a check from K Street. And so --
(CROSSTALK)
COSTELLO: OK. So that all may be true but again going back to my original question, if he can't get along with his fellow Senate Republicans, and he doesn't like Democrats --
TYLER: But he does get along with -- you know what it is?
COSTELLO: How can he effectively be president?
TYLER: It's actually the -- a couple of things. One, it's actually the opposite. When there is a (INAUDIBLE) Senator Cruz is because he's disrupting the system so why wouldn't that be the story? Why is the story that Senator Cruz can't get along with the people who are destroying the country? It should be that the people who are destroying the country don't get along with the guy who wants to fix it. And by the way, presidents, right, presidents have enormous power or you can look at the leadership. You know, Newt Gingrich actually -- nobody wanted welfare reform. None of the Democrats want welfare reform or --
(CROSSTALK)
COSTELLO: Yes. But he worked with Bill Clinton. He worked with the Democrat.
TYLER: No, what he did was -- no, what he did was he worked with the country and the country decided that welfare was bad for people. And so the Democrats had no choice. They didn't say, oh boy, let's reform welfare. They had no reason do that. Remember President Bill Clinton vetoed welfare reform, he vetoed the budget and eventually he caved in. Why? Because the American people said, if you don't do this, we're going to give the Republicans an overwhelming majority and eventually that's -- they did that and then they did it again so we got the first re-elected Republican majority. That's what we need in Washington, is leadership.
COSTELLO: OK. I just want to --
TYLER: To bring the country --
COSTELLO: I just want to ask one last question because you said something that picked my interest.
TYLER: Sure.
COSTELLO: You said presidents have a lot of power. Does that mean Ted Cruz would be into issuing lots of executive orders?
TYLER: I think what the -- a President Cruz would do immediately is rescind all the unconstitutional and illegal executive orders that this president did that's crippling the economy, doesn't allow border enforcement, doesn't allow, you know, the economy to grow, and would work with the Congress. But remember, when people elect the president they're giving the president a mandate and telling the Congress to work with this person that we elected. And so he goes out to the country as he is now, all across the country and getting people behind his campaign. They're telling -- they're sending a direct message to Washington.
Washington is broken, fix it. What we don't need is a president to go in there and marginally manage the decay. We need a president to go in and change the system. And Ted Cruz will do that.
[09:15:02] COSTELLO: All right. Rick Tyler, thanks for stopping by. I appreciate it.
TYLER: Appreciate it. Thanks so much.
COSTELLO: You're welcome. No one was more ecstatic about the debate than the Republican National
Committee. Reince Priebus tweeting, "And that CNBC is how you run a debate." Donald trump called the moderators elegant. And why not? The questions were markedly tamer than the first debate.
Example, listen to Megyn Kelly's question to Trump in the first FOX debate and then listen to Neil Cavuto's question to Ben Carson in the second debate.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MEGYN KELLY, FOX NEWS MODERATOR: Mr. Trump, one of the things people love about you is you speak your mind and you don't use a politician's filter. However, that is not without its downside in particular when it comes to women. You have called women fat pig, dogs, slobs, and disgusting animals. Your Twitter --
DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Only Rosie O'Donnell.
KELLY: No, it wasn't --
TRUMP: What I say is what I say. And honestly, Megyn, if you don't like it, I'm sorry. I've been very nice to you although I could probably not be based on the way you have treated me but I wouldn't do that.
NEIL CAVUTO, FBN MODERATOR: You've recently railed against the double standard in the media, sir, that seems obsessed with inconsistencies and the potential exaggerations in your life story but looked the other way when it came to then-Senator Barack Obama's. Still, as a candidate who's brand has always been trust, are you worried your campaign, which you have always said, sir, is bigger than you, is now being hurt by you?
BEN CARSON (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Well, first of all, thank you for not asking me what I said in the tenth grade. I appreciate that.
(LAUGHTER)
(APPLAUSE)
CAVUTO: I'll just forget that follow-up then.
(LAUGHTER)
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COSTELLO: All righty. As Frank Rich, the executive producer of the TV show "Veep," tweeted, "Fox Business's debate innovation," ask questions that allow candidates to give their stump speeches without fear of any follow-up questions."
With me now, CNN media guru and host of "RELIABLE SOURCES", Brian Stelter.
Welcome, Brian Stelter. BRIAN STELTER, CNN SENIOR MEDIA CORRESPONDENT: Hey, good morning.
COSTELLO: So, what do you think? Did you think the moderators sort of gave the candidates a pass?
STELTER: There were moments I was desperate for follow-ups. I think a lot of viewers were as well. You know, this is the press filing room for the debate here, and there were some in the room feeling the questions were too soft, that maybe FOX was going too easy on these candidates.
But FOX did want to draw a clear contrast to the CNBC debate two weeks ago which, of course, was much maligned. The moderators were widely criticized. And I think FOX succeeded in that.
And I show Matthew Dowd, the former Bush/Cheney 2004 campaign strategist, say on Twitter he is hoping there will be a goldilocks debate in the future, in between the FOX Business tune and the CNBC tune, where the moderators can get it just right. And, of course, the next is on CNN in about five weeks. So, there will be another chance for more questioning of these candidates.
But I think there were a number of soluble softballs. I think you played one of them there from Neil Cavuto. But there were also pointed questions, whether the candidates answered them or not is up for debate.
And, Carol, I think the one thing I'd like to see in future debates is something that actually CNN does do, put the questions on the bottom of the screen, because that way it is easier to notice when the candidates are evading answering. You know?
COSTELLO: Oh, that's an excellent idea. Brian Stelter reporting live for us this morning, thank you.
On this Veterans Day, there will be parades and ceremonies across America honoring our nation's service members. In just a few hours, President Obama will visit Arlington National Cemetery, where he'll take part in the traditional laying of the wreath at the Tomb of the Unknowns. During a speech there, he'll push Congress for broad new legislation and reforms to benefit veterans.
COSTELLO: Still to come in the NEWSROOM: actions speak louder than words. We're decoding the debate night body language to find out who came out on top.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[09:23:00] COSTELLO: The candidates are four debates in. And at this point in the race, their stump speeches and rallying cries are battle- tested but there is still room for a surprise every now and again.
Watch Marco Rubio's face has he gets a big reception to a line about welders.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) SEN. MARCO RUBIO (R-FL), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Make higher education faster and easier to access especially vocation training. For the life of me, I don't know why we have stigmatized vocational education. Welders make more money than philosophers. We need more welders and less philosophers.
(APPLAUSE)
If we do that --
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COSTELLO: All right. So, that seemed like a genuine look of surprise there. So, was it?
Let's talk about that. I'm joined again by body language expert and author of "The Power of Body Language", Tonya Reiman.
Welcome back, Tonya.
TONYA REIMAN, BODY LANGUAGE EXPERT: Thank you.
COSTELLO: It's always fun to have you here.
REIMAN: Thank you.
COSTELLO: So, what do you make of Rubio's reaction?
REIMAN: You know, that was the first time you see an actual genuine look. His eyebrows went up, which is to show up surprise. He put on this genuine smile, as opposed to that polished one we're so used to seeing. In addition, he stuck his tongue out a little bit as well, like he was thrilled. Like a little kid, ooh yes.
The funniest part was right after that was Trump's expression was one of like, seriously? He's getting applause? So, it was interesting to see the go-between.
COSTELLO: OK, the next one is let's watch Ben Carson as he talked about his tax plan. And you say to pay attention to his palms.
REIMAN: Yes, watch his palms.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CARSON: When I say tithing, I'm talking about the concept of proportionality. Everybody should say the same proportion of what they make. You make $10 billion, you pay a billion. You make $10, you pay $1 --
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COSTELLO: OK. So we can't see his palms anymore, but we get the idea. So, what are we to make of that?
REIMAN: All right. So, we know people who use downward palms are quite often seen as more dominant. They're more alpha, right? When you make a point, this is what I'm trying to tell you, as opposed to, do you understand? See the submissive versus the more dominant gesture.
So, throughout this earlier, I was really impressed because I don't I'm not always happy with the way Carson uses his hands, not for any other reason than perception of the audience. So, today -- last night, I saw him using a lot of palm down gestures and I thought wow, he's learning the difference.
[09:25:00] But then he starts talking here and notice the palms go back up and kind of that tells you not that he's being honest, but maybe more so he doesn't know a hundred percent about this so he starts to feel like, hey, let me make sure you understand what I'm trying to say.
COSTELLO: Interesting. I love that.
REIMAN: Yes.
COSTELLO: OK. So, on, where are we going to go next? We're going to Governor Kasich, the Ohio governor, and he's listening as Donald Trump talks.
REIMAN: This is good.
COSTELLO: Watch his body language.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: Look at Libya. Look at Iraq. Look at the mess we have after spending $2 trillion, thousands of lives, wounded warriors all over the place, who I love, OK? All over. We have nothing. And I say, keep the oil. And we should have kept the oil, believe me. We should have kept the oil.
And you know what? We should have been given the oil --
(END VIDEO CLIP)
REIMAN: OK. So, did you see?
COSTELLO: I did.
REIMAN: There were two things. If you watched his mouth, you saw actually anger. But if you watch, he was leaning against the podium, his body is extended outward, and his hands are actually fidgeting like grabbing on to it. And this is where we saw it's actual anger. So, he saw frustration in the mouth and then anger in the hands.
And actually, it's also frustration leaking out like when is it going to be my turn to speak? How come I'm not getting an opportunity?
And these two have a really tough time working together, like when they talk, it's ugly. It's ugly.
COSTELLO: And kind of enjoyable in a way.
OK. So let's watch Donald Trump while Carly Fiorina talks. He does this little thing with his face and his tongue. Watch.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CARLY FIORINA (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Mr. Trump ought to know that we should not speak to people from a position of weakness. Senator Paul should know that as well. One of the reasons I've said that I would not be talking to Vladimir Putin right now -- although I have met him as well, not in a green room for a show but in a private meeting.
(LAUGHTER)
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COSTELLO: OK. So we saw the -- just appeared to me like he was wetting his lips.
REIMAN: Well, you know, quite often that's a sign of disgust. If you think about how a child sticks out their tongue, you put some piece on the baby's mouth, and what does he do? He pushes the piece out, and that's exactly what we see quite often here.
Now, are there times they are just licking their lips? Yes. So, what we're looking for is a baseline. But realize always a bottle of water right here, that they can just grab when they need it.
So, at this point, you know he's automatically over the top anyway so he doesn't care what his face exposes, what his hand exposed. He's willing to put everything out there. So, why not disgust as well.
COSTELLO: Yes. He wasn't too happy with Ms. Fiorina.
REIMAN: Yes, I saw that.
COSTELLO: Tonya Reiman, thanks for stopping by.
REIMAN: Thank you.
COSTELLO: We always have fun when you're here. Thank you so much.
REIMAN: Thank you so much. Have a good day.
COSTELLO: You too.
Still to come in the NEWSROOM: the U.S. will soon be playing a larger role in the investigation of the doomed Russian airliner. This as we learned how an explosive could have made it onboard.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
