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Legal View with Ashleigh Banfield

Examining a Ruiling in a Child Custody Case; Discussing Gun Laws; Mislabeled Birth Control Pills Caused Unplanned Pregnancies. Aired 12:30-1p ET

Aired November 12, 2015 - 12:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[12:30:02] ASHLEIGH BANFIELD, CNN ANCHOR: From his legal rulings. But does that make any difference in this case? Is something going to be overturned on procedure or that this guy is bringing his own thoughts into a courtroom where they don't belong, the law belongs there?

PAUL CALLAN, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: I'm confident that this judge is way off the reservation and he's going to get reversed in a higher court in Utah will say this child belongs with these foster parents.

But the point I want to make is, you know, everybody I think was who supported same-sex marriage was really happy on that day when the over excel decision was made. As a matter of fact, they lit the White House that night in rainbow colors. I don't know if you remember that.

But that was just the start really of a battle that now we'll see fought in courts across the country when we're looking at adoption, employment, all of the secondary things where people are discriminated against because of their sexual orientations.

And, you know, in Brown versus the board of education when African- Americans suffered in segregated schools, 19, what, '52 I think that came down.

BANFIELD: '54.

CALLAN: 54, it took 20 years before it all sorted itself out and, you know, it still hasn't because there is still lawsuits relating to how education occurs in the United States.

BANFIELD: So let me read this, let me read you -- but again the Department of Children and Family Services, and they have the acronym of every state that a little different. But it's pretty much the same thing.

The director says this, "On the one hand, I'm not going to expect my caseworkers to violate a court order, but on the other hand, I'm not going to expect my caseworkers to violate the law."

So ultimately their hands are tied even though they don't feel that it is the least bit right to take this child out of this environment. Quick question, and it's really a one answer to both of you.

What could happen to the judge? Could he be brought up before his peers or it's just judicial review and at the an elected official could he be turfed and dumped and told he can never practice again? It's happened before, even not in this kind of case but yes or no?

MIDWIN CHARLES, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: Well I don't know, I mean Utah is a state where 60 percent of the people are Mormon and they do not -- the Mormon church does not believe in same-sex marriage...

BANFIELD: That's an electorate issue.

CHARLES: So I wonder how much, I mean right, that he's an elected official, he's an elected judge...

BANFIELD: Yes, what about judicial review. I seen bad judges tossed out by their...

CALLAN: They are, but usually, you know, they're taking a bribe or they're doing something clearly illegal and improper.

He's going to say this was in his discretion as a judge, he made a mistake usually judges don't get removed from the bench for that.

CALLAN: Paul Callan, Midwin Charles, yes -- I think you're right.

CHARLES: I strongly believe that he will be.

BANFIELD: I just can't see any -- I can't see the merit in this when it comes to the law. Midwin and Charles, thank you.

CHARLES: You're welcome.

BANFIELD: I said Midwin and Charles, Midwin and Paul.

CALLAN: I can change it to Charles.

BANFIELD: Coming up next, listen, way too many guns are being used in crimes. We know that. But they're coming from a handful of strange places and you might be surprised. Are they coming from shady suppliers? Are they coming from shady gun stores, guess what there are some gun source in the crosshairs after this and you would be surprised upon the stats on the number of stores selling criminal guns across this country.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[12:37:28] BANFIELD: People who support new gun control laws say too many guns are getting into the hands of people who should not have them.

And people who oppose new gun control laws say "We need to better enforce the laws that we've got on the books today."

And today a brand-new study from the Brady campaign to reduce gun violence shows that in effect they're both kind of right. Citing government data, the Brady study shows that 90 percent of the guns that are used in crimes across this country come from, wait for it, just 5 percent of the U.S. gun stores.

Let me say that again, 5 percent of the gun stores are supplying 90 percent of the crime guns that are being used in this country.

The vast majority of crime guns are bought, not stolen. And the vast majority of gun stores sell no crime guns in any given year.

So what are these so-called bad apple gun stores doing wrong or not doing right? And what can the rest of us do about this?

I want to ask the president of the Brady campaign Dan Gross. He joins me live here.

First of all this whole notion of the bad apple gun stores, there's a couple of things that you just outline that give them that designation sort of it's a bad apple.

Let me put them up on the screen if I can so we can sort of guide our viewers to what makes them this way.

Straw purchases, gun trafficking and selling "off-the books." Can you sort of package that up and explain it to me?

DAN GROSS, PRES. BRADY CAMPAIGN TO PREVENT GUN VIOLENCE: Yeah, so the bottom line is these gun dealers know exactly what they're doing. They're putting guns on to the streets of cities like Chicago, cities like New York, guns that are killing cops, they know exactly what they're doing.

And they're doing it in ways that are at the very least reckless and irresponsible and very often illegal. They're selling guns to somebody who is intent on committing violence and obvious -- and it's obviously a, you know, somebody who's likely to do that. We'll walk into the store...

BANFIELD: Meaning they know there's a straw purchase...

GROSS: Yeah, with a young lady who's very often who will make a sale to a straw purchaser. Sometimes they'll pull the blinds, lock the door, sell guns off-the books to criminals.

BANFIELD: And they're supposed to report certain pieces of information on the National Gun Registry, they're supposed to write down who it is, where they live et cetera and they're not doing that.

GROSS: Sometimes they'll report the guns as stolen. Sometimes they'll sell them to straw purchasers. Sometimes they'll sell them to these at traffics who are loading up U-Hauls with guns and bringing them back up I-95 from states like Georgia and South Carolina and selling them on streets of New York. And these are the guns that are being used...

BANFIELD: And that's the selling off-the books.

GROSS: Yeah.

BANFIELD: That last piece of that puzzle.

GROSS: Yeah. BANFIELD: So there was this case just recently, badger guns in Milwaukee. A couple cops were killed by a gun that ultimately had been sold -- actually, I'm sorry they weren't killed, they were shot and injured by a gun that was sold by badger guns.

[12:40:09] And it was proven in court that this was a negligence case. The gun shop had not followed federal law. And that is the one thing that sort of folks who hate this have on their side. That if a store does something like that, actually doesn't follow federal law, they can actually have this happen, in the $5 million lawsuit against that store.

But it seems as though they're otherwise pretty immune. Why is that?

GROSS: Because the ATF isn't doing its job in cracking down. The ATF licenses every one of these federally licensed firearm dealers. They know what's going on. They know that these gun dealers are conducting these reckless, irresponsible, often illegal practices and they're not doing anything because they're kowtowing to congress that's why -- we're putting pressure on the ATF, on Loretta Lynch as the attorney general, to really put the power of the ATF to bear to crack down on these bad apple gun dealers.

BANFIELD: So this is a report you're raising today, right?

GROSS: Yup, yup.

BANFIELD: And as I understand it, there are three top mayors from L.A., from New York and Chicago. They have all three crafted a letter and they're trying to spearhead others, other mayors around the country, to join in that letter as well to send to the attorney general from Loretta Lynch?

GROSS: Yeah, these mayors are the ones whose streets are being devastated by the activities of these bad apple gun dealers. You know, everybody likes to...

BANFIELD: What do they want Loretta Lynch to do, if there's already federal law, albeit if they think it's toothless, it exists, if the gun dealers don't follow the law and procedure, they can have the same thing happen to them that badger guns had happen, big, fat, ugly lawsuit.

GROSS: ... It's not about lawsuits with the ATF, it's about issuing this -- the licenses of these bad apple gun. They should be revoked.

BANFIELD: And why aren't they? Why aren't they being revoked?

GROSS: That's a question for Loretta Lynch.

BANFIELD: ... because of politics?

GROSS: That is what we believe. That they're kowtowing to congress, that they're not doing their job. And there's an opportunity to do something about it. This isn't about ATF officers. This is about the people running this. This is about Loretta Lynch and bringing the power of the ATF to bear to do something about this if the ATF knows who these bad apple gun dealers are.

They've issued reports that have shown who these bad apple gun dealers are, they warn these bad apple gun dealers. Yet they continue to let them do business unobstructed.

And yes, it is that shocking that these people are allowed to do business. That what if 5 percent of meat distributors were selling 90 percent of tainted meat? What would the FDA do?

You know, this is the opportunity that the ATF has.

BANFIELD: Well, you know, keep us posted on what happens with the report. It's fascinating to see this. I think a lot of people would be shocked to find out that 5 percent of the gun dealers across America are supplying 90 percent of the crime guns in this country.

It astounding because it's thick (ph), and just shouldn't be, it really shouldn't be. Thank you for coming in, I do appreciate...

GROSS: Yeah, thanks Ashleigh, anytime.

BANFIELD: If you mix up or forget to take your birth control pills, your fault, right?

But what if it's the pill maker that packages things with a big boo- boo on a massive scale? Still your fault?

Well, there are more than 100 women who say "No" and they're suing. So do they have grounds? Could they win? And then what? That's next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

[12:48:09] PAMELA BURRELL, VOLUNTEER & VETERAN: So we do right here, this is what we do.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Pamela Burrell knows what it's like to go hungry. The 52-year-old army veteran has made it her mission to help make sure no one else does.

BURRELL: It's just like an ultimate high. Like an unconditional high.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Today she is helping prepare meals for families, drawing on her experience as a cook in the army. That's when Burrell's life took a terrible turn. A friend looking after her two daughters while she was serving overseas killed her 4-year-old.

BURRELL: My daughter had been hit with fists. Then she was thrown down the stairs. I have memories and I remember the struggle with it hurt sometimes.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The single mom fell into a deep depression. She lost her job and even tried to take her own life.

BURRELL: I was a project mom, so going into the military was supposed to make things better for my family and myself.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Burrell and her other daughter lived on the streets for years until they found a charity dedicate to ending homelessness. She got an apartment and treatment for PTSD. But she still thought about her friends on the streets.

VIRGINIA SPENCER, EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR ACTION MINISTRIES: She's always bringing someone else with another tough story who's on the street, that she meet in the park and bringing them to us and say, can you help them?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Burrell dream is to own her own restaurant, buy a home and continue to help veterans.

BURRELL: To me, it's the right thing to do. It's the way I was raised.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BANFIELD: More than 100 women are now saying that they were not protected from getting pregnant because their birth control pills were labeled wrong. It's as though they weren't taking birth control at all basically. Quite a few unplanned babies were born. Now these mothers are holding the company that made those pills responsible.

Elizabeth Cohen watching medical matters for us today. This is a big class action lawsuit. Can you sort of walk me through this? The packaging was sort of backwards so people were taking the pills properly but the pills weren't being given to them properly, is that what essentially happened here?

[12:50:12] ELIZABETH COHEN, CNN MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT:Right, Ashleigh that's effectively what happened. So birth control pills sometimes you're taking a pill with a hormone in it but then there are placebo pills for one of the weeks. So what happen was that women were taking placebo pill, meaning sugar pills, there was nothing on it, for at times when they should have been taking hormone pills and vice versa. So that is not effective birth control. And so the FDA put out a warning about this and there was a voluntary recall.

And so, now these women are suing. And, you know, it's interesting, these are called wrongful pregnancy lawsuits. People have had varying degrees of success with them. You know, sometimes people sue, for example, for the cost of raising the child all the way to age 18. It's pretty tough to recover that but it has been done.

BANFIELD: That could be incredible to see that kind of compensatory case. And actually doing the map on what it cause nowadays as college raise someone. But what's the company's position on this?

COHEN: Right.

BANFIELD: So they're saying, you know, yeah we made a mistake, we're sorry but? COHEN: You know, the company says, look, we issued this voluntary recall. Patient safety is our first priority. And they're saying we have one, you know, we know of one confirmed case here. They're really not saying very much. It will be interesting to see what happens with these lawsuits.

BANFIELD: Boy, will it ever. Elizabeth thank you for that, we'll have you back when we find out more, appreciate it.

Coming up next, you've heard the reports. There are many of them. We're going to be following not only what happens when someone on the ground does one of these little laser tricks to the people who are flying in the skies. It is way more serious than you might think.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[12:56:01] BANFIELD: Last night after dark in cities all across this country more than 20 airplane and helicopters with pilots in them say that somebody shot a laser pointer at them from the ground. I'm talking about something like this. A green or red laser beam. Some of them are toys. Some of them are very powerful. You can buy them just about anywhere. If you point one at an aircraft, you have committed yourself a federal crime. Listen to this helicopter pilot after a lazier beam shot into his face last night.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I see the people involved right now. They're walking in and out of the building. Hitting us right now. Don't look, George. Yeah, you think this is a joke, huh?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BANDFIELD: And clearly, the guy seemed to think it was pretty funny. After that happened, laser strikes on three different planes trying to land in Dallas happened and by late evening the same thing happened in more than a dozen other cities in the United States and Puerto Rico. It's crazy.

Les Abend is here, he's an airline captain and our Aviation Analyst. As a Boeing 777 pilot, I'm sure that is pretty darn scary when one hits you. I think people think they're pinpoints. But when they end up in the sky at altitude, they're not pinpoints anymore.

LES ABEND, CNN AVIATION ANALYST: Exactly, right. They spread out just like a flashlight but the point beam is that people don't understand it just not aiming something so it creates this huge green flash in the cockpit. It's totally districting. I came down and I talked to one of my colleagues that actually experienced this going into Miami at 2,000 feet on the approach. Not only did it create pressure, an ache, that was with him for 24 hours but it created a distraction in the cockpit. Where they went, are you okay, are you okay? Co-pilot was flying so, I want to assure people.

BANFIELD: I guess they on approach.

ABEND: This is on approach, right.

BANFIELD: Yeah, before cruising altitude.

ABEND: Correct, yeah because it won't be...

BANFIELD: You're coming in for landing.

ABEND: You won't get that kind of effect when it's up at higher altitude.

BANFIELD: Yeah.

ABEND: But this guy was in essence they were distracted trying to make sure they were both okay. He did have some temporary blindness in that one eye for about two seconds. Of how, he experienced also some discomfort later on. The bottom line was, at least we had another pilot and that co-pilot was flying at the time and he would have transferred duties so I want to assure that the public that, you know..

BANFIELD: Yeah.

ABEND: You know, we're not going to lose control of the airplane necessarily but...

BANFIELD: Unless both of you are blinded, because that is a massive.

ABEND: In exposing. If it's strategic, yes.

BANFIELD: I've been told it is like being in a pitch black closet and someone taking a flash camera and flashing it at you without you knowing it coming.

ABEND: You're exactly right. And the anecdotal story, that I just relayed there was no moon. And it was complete darkness. Matter of fact, so much so, that he was enjoying the outside scenery while his co-pilot was flying and he was doing the check list and, boom, it hit him. Matter of fact they hit them twice. And it was instinctively, he looked back to see and that's when he got hit in the right eye.

BANFIELD: So these numbers are just sort of astounding. When we first heard about the two helicopters here in the New York City and then the three incidents down in Love Field in Dallas, just last night, we weren't aware it was happening, you know, almost two dozen times across the country. Is this becoming a bigger problem for you and your colleagues? Are you guys talking about this a lot of more and is there something that can be done, a massive campaign to let people know, it isn't funny like the guy doing the push-ups and laughing about it on the floor. It can be lethal.

ABEND: Well, as far I'm concern this is tantamount to attempted homicide. I mean, if you think of the implications. The airplane I fly, it's over 300 people. And the people on the ground, you know, we can go on about that. But, you know, let's use the technology to find the technology that's creating this problem, we have it out there available. And then you will make it a real serious crime, not just some sort of miscellaneous federal crime that's out there.

BANFIELD: Yeah. And by the way, folks, if you think it's funny, it's not so funny when you're in the federal pokey after doing this because that's exactly what can happen. To you and your colleagues, , you know, hats off for dealing with it and for managing and I hope you don't have to deal with it again Les.

Thanks for coming. Good to see you as always.

[13:00:00] Thank you everyone for watching. It's been nice to have you here with us this hour. But I'm going to turn things over to my colleague Wolf Blitzer who starts right now.