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Jihadi John Killed; Trump Comments. Aired 2-2:30p ET

Aired November 13, 2015 - 14:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[14:00:14] BROOKE BALDWIN, CNN ANCHOR: All right, here we go. Great to be with you on this Friday. I'm Brooke Baldwin. This is CNN.

Two huge potential victories in the U.S.-led war on ISIS. Number one, this U.S. airstrike said to have killed this man, Jihadi John. You know his chilling voice. The voice of ISIS. The brutal masked beheader who took the lives of three Americans on camera. The U.S. saying it is confident that a reaper drone armed with hellfire missiles took the right shot just over Syria blowing up the car the British citizen was apparently traveling in.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

COL. STEVE WARREN, U.S. SPOKESMAN FOR OPERATION AGAINST ISIS: We are reasonably certain that we killed the target that we intended to kill, which is Jihadi John. This guy was a human animal and killing him is probably making the world a little bit better place.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: This news here, as we are also getting word that the ISIS reign in at least one city is now over. This two-day war, Operation Free Sinjar, bolstered by U.S. air power, declared a success. The city no longer ruled by that black ISIS flag because Peshmerga troops are seen now raising a Kurdish flag over that city.

So joining me now I have Jim Sciutto, CNN chief national security correspondent. And on the phone, just outside of Sinjar in Iraq, Nick Paton Walsh, our CNN senior international correspondent.

So, Jim Sciutto, first to you on this, you know, belief that the U.S. got Jihadi John. What more do you know about the strike?

JIM SCIUTTO, CNN CHIEF NATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: Well, I'll tell you, Brooke, when you look at this, this is a pretty remarkable piece of surveillance and intelligence work. What we're told is that they were following him with a drone, in effect. They were filming him for a good couple of days, 36 hours, inside and around Raqqa as he moved around. They had picked up his trail sometime before that, but they had continuous surveillance of him for about a day and a half. He was making a number of stops, we're told. And then when he came out of one of those stops, he was alone and one of those drones fired a hellfire missile, which, from what they can tell from the air, they believe got it. Now, they don't have boots on the ground that can go in and, for

instance, take a DNA sample. So what do they look for now. They look at open source. They look at jihadi social media sites to see if there's any announcement. They listen to communications there to see if there's talk about this. And they do have human sources on the ground, human intelligence, who will be checking it out as well.

But I will tell you this, Brooke, as well. You know, you look at Syria. It's a place where the U.S. did not have a lot the assets. Not until the president just made a decision to send boots on the ground. And it was viewed by some as an intelligence black hole. But they've ramped up in recent weeks to have this capability. They've had a number of successful strikes there. And this one very high profile.

BALDWIN: A big one. Clearly, the intel was there. Jim Sciutto, thank you. We'll get back to this key strike in a moment.

But, Nick, let me just bring you in there in Iraq. You know, the Kurds say that they have retaken this key city of Sinjar. You know, what does that mean as far as ISIS? Is everyone pushed out, many killed, what?

NICK PATON WALSH, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: They say they've taken it and that is definitely the case. We're here on the ground with them. They are in control of the city. But they do not have complete freedom of movement. There are occasional still threats.

A blast we saw hours ago now. When we were on the ground with them to - a sniper took a shot at the group we were with, causing them to have to react in some degree of panic and to, in fact, the Peshmerga we were with to be injured. So still a threat there. They actually say that ISIS are, in fact, using a network of tunnels they've built under the city to perhaps try and evade the (INAUDIBLE) even used those to escape.

But it is a startling victory in terms of its speed. I think it's fair to say ISIS may have had little choice or chosen, in fact, to give up Sinjar. There were a number of dead, we're told, in that attack, at least over 100 certainly on the side of ISIS. But the Peshmerga moved in very quickly, in just over 24 hours frankly, between the first moves around to the east and the west and the eventual push on down from the north into the city center itself. That was done by Peshmerga on foot, overwhelming in their number, thousands, frankly.

And it relives (ph) the question, what next? We know that one of the key strategic objectives, the symbolic one, of course, being taking that town that the Yazidi population (INAUDIBLE) could be so brutally treated by ISIS. That was a symbolic goal. But the strategic one is taking the main highway that runs through Sinjar. That highway goes between Mosul in Iraq and Raqqa in Syria. Both vital ISIS strongholds.

Now, Musa Bazani (ph), the Kurdish leader behind the Peshmerga assault today, said that taking Sinjar bodes well effectively for the future liberation of Mosul. I think the hope is that the positive PR, rare, frankly, in the campaign against ISIS, the positive views of the taking of Sinjar could lead to a (INAUDIBLE) which may assist moves against other population centers that ISIS holds. The idea of Raqqa or Mosul being in the sights (ph) for coalition, I think a little farfetched at this stage. But perhaps this is not just an isolated capture of success, maybe the turning point in the narrative here.

[14:05:17] Brooke.

BALDWIN: Perhaps. Perhaps. Nick Paton Walsh, thank you.

We also heard from President Obama. We'll play more on that. His reaction to really what appeared to be two big victories in the war against ISIS.

David Rohde, let me bring you in. David Rohde, CNN global affairs analyst.

And back to this strike on Jihadi John. And Jim Sciutto already hit at this, but I just really want to hear it from you as well. I mean how will they ever be able to truly confirm that they got him, that he's dead?

DAVID ROHDE, CNN GLOBAL AFFAIRS ANALYST: They won't. You know, ISIS may, you know, choose to, you know, confirm his death and praise him as a martyr. So we'll just have to, you know, wait and see.

It is a real improvement in intelligence. Reuters, a colleague of mine, is reporting that he was in Raqqa visiting his wife. He was also going to the ISIS media center in town. So clearly there's been some kind of surveillance there. Maybe some human intelligence. So this is - it's a small step forward. You know, this does not mean there is now a successful and coherent U.S. strategy to get rid of ISIS. But, again, this is definitely a step forward.

BALDWIN: But, David, on that, you know, human intelligence point, does this mean that the U.S. has more intel assets within ISIS, on ISIS, than we perhaps thought?

ROHDE: It could. And the really key thing is, is there oppressive rule causing, you know, local people to possibly turn against them? That would be a huge step forward. That's the kind of callous here. Because, in the end, it's about Syrians. It's about Iraqis. It's about them turning against ISIS. It's not, you know, U.S. planes alone and U.S. troops alone aren't going to do this. So that could be happening. Or even if it was getting intelligence assets in there, maybe from Jordan, you know, that - that Jordanian pilot was brutally executed by ISIS. Either outcome is a step forward.

BALDWIN: Given that intelligence, given, we can only hope, that people are turning, you know, the fact that Jihadi John would be killed is a massive, massive deal. A symbolic victory as well. But what about the top, you know, the top chiefs of ISIS? Do you think we will start to see more strikes, more successful strikes on them as well?

ROHDE: We could. And, you know, but let's be honest, I think we've been trying to kill al Baghdadi, the head of ISIS, now for at least the last year and have not been able to find him. Maybe he's more disciplined. You know, he didn't make whatever mistake, you know, Emwazi made. So I think we should just go one step at a time. Maybe we'll get lucky, but clearly killing a more senior leader would mean more strategically than just this strike today.

BALDWIN: Let me play this, President Obama reacting to all of this here on "Good Morning America," essentially saying ISIS is contained. They haven't beheaded ISIS, but contained. Your reaction to that respond? Do you think that there is a real shift here?

ROHDE: There could be, but I think it's an overstatement, you know. An ISIS affiliate in Sinai just -

BALDWIN: You do?

ROHDE: Well, I - it's a small step forward, but I - I don't think ISIS is contained. An ISIS affiliate in, you know, in Egypt has brought down a Russian airliner. Libya's more chaotic than ever with an ISIS affiliate there.

BALDWIN: What about what happened in Beirut?

ROHDE: And then, yes, we have the bombing just in Beirut today. So it's a good day, but I think saying they're contained is an overstatement.

BALDWIN: David Rohde, thank you.

ROHDE: Thank you.

BALDWIN: Now this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: He lunged that knife into the stomach of his friends, but low and behold, it hit the belt. It hit the belt and the knife broke. Give me a break.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: Donald Trump like you have never seen him before. And that's saying a lot, folks. In a 95-minute rant, he unleashes on Ben Carson. He talks about child molesters. He curses. One of his rivals say this, quote, meltdown was a turning point. We'll discuss that.

Plus, Dr. Carson himself raising some eyebrows saying he has intelligence that the Chinese are in Syria. The White House says, not true. Well, after backlash, Carson is now revealing his sources. Welcome to election 2016.

I'm Brooke Baldwin. Stay with me.

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[14:13:31] BALDWIN: This is CNN. I'm Brooke Baldwin.

Donald Trump, he is unconventional and unapologetic and Thursday night in Iowa he was unplugged. Is that the right word? : I would say so.

BALDWIN: Yes, you would - OK. Unplugged like we've never seen him before. For 95 minutes, the Republican frontrunner unleashed a series of attacks against the president, against ISIS, Hillary Clinton, but most of all his competitors. He called Senator Marco Rubio a baby. Said Ohio Governor John Kasich was buggen (ph). But he focused much of his tirade on his closest competitor, Ben Carson, and what Carson wrote in his autobiography.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Carson's an enigma to me. I didn't say it. Carson's an enigma.

He wrote a book. And here's the beauty of all. He took a knife and he went after a friend and he lunged, he lunged that knife into the stomach of his friend, but low and behold, it hit the belt. It hit the belt. And the knife broke. Give me a break.

Let me tell you, I'm pretty good at this stuff. So, I have a belt. Somebody hits me with a belt (ph), it's going in because the belt moves this way, it moves this way, it moves that way. He hit the belt buckle. Anybody - anybody have a knife? You want to try it on me? Believe me, it ain't going to work. You're going to be successful.

[14:15:06] But he took the knife, he went like this, and he plunged it into the belt. And amazingly the belt stayed totally flat and the knife broke. How stupid are the people of Iowa? How stupid are the people of the country to believe this crap?

So what he's saying is that these series of events - and he goes into the bathroom for a couple hours and he comes out and now he's religious. And the people of Iowa believe him. Give me a break. Give me a break. It doesn't happen that way. It doesn't happen that way. And some people might not like it. Oh, that's not really nice what you say. Don't be fools. Don't be fools.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: That was just a piece. We're going to talk about that. But let's get the reaction, or really lack thereof reaction from Dr. Carson earlier today.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BEN CARSON (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: The wonderful thing is, it's not really up to me, it's up to the people. They will listen and they will be able to make a decision about whether they want to listen to the usual politics of personal destruction, or do they want to deal with something better?

QUESTION: Are you personally offended by it?

CARSON: Let me put it this way. I expect that kind of thing. That's what's been going on in our country for years that's dragging us in the mud. And I don't expect it to change any time soon. But I don't have to get into it.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: We'll get into it. Radio talk show host Andy Dean, a former contestant on Trump's reality show and the former president of Trump Productions, is with me. Pastor Darrell Scott, who supports Donald Trump. Katie Packer, who was deputy campaign manager for Mitt Romney's presidential campaign. Full disclosure, Katie's firm works for the Rubio campaign, though she's not associated with that account. And Michael D'Antonio, who wrote the Trump biography just out, "Never Enough: Donald Trump and the Pursuit of Success."

So welcome, welcome to all of you. And if I may, first, just out of the gate, we're going to do a little round robin.

Michael, I want to begin with you here on just, you know, 20 seconds or less, reaction to Trump's, what do you want to call it, tour de force (ph), tirade. Michael, go.

MICHAEL D'ANTONIO, AUTHOR, "NEVER ENOUGH: DONALD TRUMP & THE PURSUIT OF SUCCESS": Well, this is why Donald's in a lot of psychology texts as an example of a personality disorder. This fellow is all it all the time and he wants attention and he got it.

BALDWIN: Andy?

ANDY DEAN, DONALD TRUMP SUPPORTER: Well, Michael wrote a hit (ph) piece book on Donald. Donald sat with Michael for two interviews and then when he realized that Michael doesn't have the intellectual horse power to listen to facts, he stopped him.

D'ANTONIO: Oh, get your - get your facts straight. I sat with him for five interviews. As if you want to distort things.

DEAN: Michael, look, your book was a disaster, like the last - your book was a failure.

D'ANTONIO: Oh, you're a distorting liar, just like Donald.

DEAN: Just look at the ranking, 29,500 on Amazon.

D'ANTONIO: You're just as bad as he is.

BALDWIN: Gentlemen, gentlemen, gentlemen, gentlemen!

DEAN: Calm - Michael, calm down. Michael, calm down.

BALDWIN: Gentlemen! Andy!

D'ANTONIO: No, I'm not going to let you lie. No, this -

DEAN: Michael, you had your turn.

BALDWIN: No, no, it was more than two interviews. How many hours were you with him?

DEAN: Calm down. The book was a disaster.

BALDWIN: Well, the book is a disaster.

(CROSS TALK)

BALDWIN: OK, let's move off the book. Let's move off the book. Let's talk about Donald Trump.

DEAN: The book - the book was a failed disaster.

BALDWIN: Andy, please.

D'ANTONIO: I don't want to be president of the United States, Brooke. Donald Trump wants to be president of the United States.

BALDWIN: Please, let's talk about Donald Trump.

DEAN: OK. Brooke. OK.

BALDWIN: Andy, you thought he was joking last night, right? That was a joke.

DEAN: Me?

BALDWIN: Did you think it -

DEAN: I thought the speech was brilliant. I thought he communicated - see, you only played certain clips of the speech, but you didn't play the part of the speech where he talked about destroying ISIS and the oil fields and the substance.

BALDWIN: Oh, we're getting to that. Promise.

DEAN: OK, well, then let's get to that. OK, great.

BALDWIN: Well, I'll get us there, OK? But first I just wanted your quick reaction and I appreciate that.

DEAN: OK. I thought it was a - I thought it was a great speech. I thought it was dynamic without notes. I thought it was off the cuff. We want somebody who speaks their mind and Trump did it. I thought it was great.

BALDWIN: I appreciate that. Thank you.

Pastor, back to you.

DEAN: Great. OK.

BALDWIN: Pastor?

PASTOR DARRELL SCOTT, DONALD TRUMP SUPPORTER: Well, I'm in agreement - I'm in agreement as well. I thought he spoke from his heart and I thought he made some very truthful statements as far - as what he believes to be the validity of that biography. And to be honest, I share some of the same thought processes that he articulated. I mean the story sounds a little farfetched. It sounds as if it was embellished somewhat for the sake of book sales.

BALDWIN: Katie?

KATIE PACKER, REPUBLICAN POLITICAL CONSULTANT: Well, I don't think you necessarily have to believe Dr. Carson's version of what happened to be able to watch that speech and know that Mr. Trump really should get back on his meds. He does have some serious issues that he needs to deal with. The people that support him tend to be people like Andy that have collected a paycheck from him. But I don't think that people beyond the 22 percent that are already in his camp are going to look at that and think this is a guy that should have his hand on the nuclear codes.

BALDWIN: OK. So we - well, we're across the - we're across the spectrum.

DEAN: OK, let me respond, if I could, to -

BALDWIN: Andy, Andy, let me -

DEAN: OK.

BALDWIN: You can respond. But let me just also come to you first here because as a Trump supporters - and, listen, the fact that he was in Iowa, where Carson is clearly giving him a run for his money. That's not lost on me. But the - but his language, the language. He said to people, how stupid are the people of Iowa and this country to believe this crap?

[14:20:13] DEAN: See, I think that Trump is being very frank with the people and treating the American people as if they're smart by saying, are we going to fall for this story? I mean Ben Carson admitted in his book to hitting his mom over the head with a hammer. That is bizarre behavior. That isn't like teenage hijinks. Teenage hijinks is like stealing a candy bar from a gas station. When you hit your mom with a hammer, that shows someone with sever mental instability. And Donald is letting the people know about what is in Ben Carson's book. There's nothing bad about that. He's telling the truth.

PACKER: A lot of us have had the same questions about Mr. Trump and his supporters.

BALDWIN: There you go.

DEAN: Well, he never - Trump never hit his mom with a hammer, I'll tell you that.

D'ANTONIO: No. But Donald's record of lying is at least 30 years long. He's lied about so many aspects of his own biography that it's almost impossible to recount them. But what I do believe is when he told me that he's the same person he was when he was six years old, he was telling the truth. This is a guy who hasn't matured since first grade.

BALDWIN: That said, let me play the sound bite -

DEAN: Yes, Michael - that, Michael, and speaking, that was immature (ph). That comment was immature.

BALDWIN: Let me play the sound bite, if I may, on the bombing ISIS. Here you go.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: Someone, one of the shows (ph), and I said, look, ISIS is making a tremendous amount of money because they have certain oil camps, right? They have certain areas of oil that they took away. They have some in Syria, some in Iraq. I would bomb the (EXPLETIVE DELETED) out of them.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: All right, you saw the applause, Katie, and maybe not presidential language, but I would like to note that, you know, the U.S. is bombing ISIS oil fields. If you saw the Michael Gordon piece in "The New York Times," that's happening. Still, what do you make of his tone?

PACKER: Well, I mean I think his tone is incredibly unpresidential. But beyond that, just, you know, days ago he was saying that this should be left to Putin. So I just - I can't even nail down what his policy is on ISIS or any other foreign policy because it seems to shift from day-to-day and I do think he does show some real signs of somebody that needs help. And I sort of feel sorry for him.

BALDWIN: Sorry for him.

DEAN: OK, well there is consistency.

BALDWIN: Pastor, I want - I want to hear your voice. I'd love to hear the pastor's voice here.

SCOTT: I don't necessarily agree with that.

BALDWIN: Go ahead. Jump in, sir.

SCOTT: I don't necessarily agree with that. I mean he brought up very (INAUDIBLE) what he would do with ISIS. When you asked him before, what would he suggest, he said allow Putin to do what he's doing. But then when you turn around and ask someone what they're going to do, he said, I would bomb them. Now his language - his language -

PACKER: No, he said he wouldn't engage - he wouldn't' engage ISIS. He would let Putin engage ISIS. And apparently he believe it's OK to seize that role. That role to Russia. This is totally at odds with what he has said previously.

SCOTT: Well, that's because Putin had already engaged ISIS. What you're asking him, going forward -

BALDWIN: Guys, one voice, please. One voice.

SCOTT: Will he engage ISIS and how would he engage ISIS. He would.

PACKER: You can't defend this total reversal of his position on foreign policy.

SCOTT: But let me say one thing. You know what I get tired of? I get tired of - I get tired of this -

DEAN: Katie, calm down. Katie - Katie, calm down.

BALDWIN: Wow.

SCOTT: I get tired of this - this statement about being presidential.

PACKER: Thank you, Andy.

BALDWIN: Please, people, let's be polite.

Go ahead, pastor.

SCOTT: It seems that the only time we're questioning what's - it seems that the only time we're questioning what's presidential is when it comes to Donald Trump. Is dancing on "Ellen DeGeneres" presidential?

BALDWIN: No, no, that's not at all. I promise you, we're questioning every single one of them. No.

PACKER: (INAUDIBLE).

SCOTT: But I'm wondering, it seems as if it's a rite of passage that American presidential candidates have to go on "Ellen" and dance. Is that presidential for our president to dance on "Ellen"? So we can't define what or what is not presidential.

BALDWIN: I don't know. I'm not Ellen. I'm not asking anyone to dance.

PACKER: I'm not sure how we got on that.

BALDWIN: Ah -

SCOTT: Every time with Donald Trump we're talking about what's presidential and what's not presidential and what's - you have to have a clearly defined category for what is and what is not -

PACKER: Well, he's sort of the poster child for lack of presidential.

BALDWIN: We're talking about very important - let me - let me just jump in, we're talking about very important issues. These are issues that are germane, obviously, to the president, to being president. He brought up ISIS. He also brought up immigration. So I want to go there as well. This is - this is - this is some sound. This is President Obama, actually, responding to - you know, we've heard Trump talking about wanting to deport 11 million people and here Obama has now officially responded.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I have no idea where Mr. Trump thinks the money is going to come from. It would cost us hundreds of billions of dollars to execute that. Imagine the images on the screen flashed around the world as we were dragging parents away from their children and putting them in, what, detention centers and then systemically sending them out.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: Andy, let me hear from you on this because you hear Obama's words.

DEAN: Sure.

BALDWIN: You hear words like inhumane. You hear, you know, Martin O'Malley, who would like to be president on the Democratic side, calling it ethnic cleansing.

DEAN: Right.

BALDWIN: The notion of shipping, you know, 11 million people back. Your response?

DEAN: OK, first, a couple things. Obama right there is encouraging illegal immigration when he says, hey, everybody come over and you're not going to get sent back. So, for the president of the United States to do that, I think is very dangerous. And also this concept that we're going to be tearing families apart, let me tell you this, when you commit a crime in this country, the Justice Department takes you away from your family. If my dad, when I was younger, robbed a bank -- and my dad's a wonderful person, he didn't rob a bank - but if he did rob a bank, the Justice Department would come and place him in prison. They wouldn't say, oh, well, you know, look, he's got a family. We're not going to put him in prison. When you commit a crime, you have to pay the price, and illegal immigration is a crime. And so these people are going back to where they came from illegally.

[14:25:20] And let me tell you, you know who's going to most benefit from this? People who are honest, who are waiting in line, immigrants who are the life blood of this country. We need to be bringing in more legal immigrants and then saying no to illegal immigration, unlike Obama who right there is like saying, hey, illegal immigrants, don't worry, you're cool. That's what he's saying.

BALDWIN: OK, let's not put words in the president's mouth, although he did use the word absurd. And I hear, loud and clear, and we've also heard Donald Trump saying, listen, we wouldn't be talking as much about, you know, immigration if it weren't for me and this really was his number one issue.

DEAN: True.

BALDWIN: And, here you go, we're still talking about it, what, however many months ahead. Again, though, the notion that this is absurd has come up multiple times.

Katie, I want to hear from you.

PACKER: Well, I mean, first of all, the notion that nobody was talking about illegal immigration until Donald Trump appeared is ridiculous. It was an issue in the 2012 campaign. It's been an issue in the months since then.

You know, I'm not going to defend what President Obama said. I think President Obama's policy on immigration has been a disaster. I do think we need border security. All of our candidates are calling for border security. But, I mean, the rhetoric and the words that Donald Trump is communicating are a sure fire way to lose on Election Day in November because what he's talking about doesn't just turn off Hispanic voters, it turns off young voters, it turns off female voters. It's a recipe for electoral disaster.

DEAN: Well, that's coming from somebody who ran the Romney message, you know, so I would take that with a grain of salt.

BALDWIN: Which is an important voice to have on here.

Go ahead.

PACKER: He had a lot more votes than Donald Trump has gotten so far, Andy. You should remember that.

D'ANTONIO: Well, this - this all reminds me of the idea of -

DEAN: We'll see. We'll see when Donald wins, Katie, we'll see.

D'ANTONIO: It's - it's like we're having - it's like we're having an insult comic running for president and he's insulting the voters who are supposed to elect him. It's all really absurd.

BALDWIN: By the way, can I just add, we just found a poll. Most Democrats -

DEAN: The only insult comic is you, Michael.

BALDWIN: Hang on, hang on, hang on. Most Democrats are saying that they believe that Donald Trump would be the toughest competitor on the Republican side.

DEAN: Thank you for that. Thank you, Brooke.

PACKER: Because we know all the Democrats are always right, right, Andy?

BALDWIN: Don't need to thank. I'm just giving you - I'm just giving you the facts. Let's have everyone standby because I'm not finished with you all. Michael and Andy and Pastor Scott and Katie, standby, because when we come back, this is interesting here, Ben Carson, let's talk about him, he says China, the Chinese are in Syria. His campaign now releasing documents to CNN actually moments ago that says it absolutely supports Dr. Carson's claim. The White House, by the way, also responding to that. We will continue this conversation when we come back.

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